Deregulation

[cloudy]

My thoughts exactly.

Just exactly which 900 numbers are ya calling, Zoot?

My phone bill is regularly between $100 and $120 a month, with VERY few long distance calls, but I do have my dsl on there.

 

[JamesSD]

My phone bill is regularly between $100 and $120 a month, with VERY few long distance calls, but I do have my dsl on there.

See, then it's your phone/internet bill.
Between my cable modem and my cell phone I pay over $100 a month.

 

[Penelope Street]

Why is it every time someone criticizes the excesses of laizze faire, they are assumed to be communists?

Why is is every time someone says something about socialism, someone assumes they are discussing communism?

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Why is is every time someone says something about socialism, someone assumes they are discussing communism?

Fine. Same point, extra word.

 

[rgraham666]

I think what you really want is the dreamy utopia with everybody sharing everything equally, living in the same sized house, making the same amount of money- a chicken in every pot, right? I admit it sounds really nice on paper, but the biggest experiment in socialism to date provided a constant depression, instead of one every fifteen years. No whams, everybody just stayed poor. Lack of incentive leads to lack of perfomance. Sad, yeah- but it always has and I'm pretty sure it always will. I'll take the so-called chaos, thanks.

Lack of incentive?! Snarl.

What fucking incentive to I have to work in our system?

I worked hard for years. Busted my ass. Was good at what I did.

But I wasn't good at the 'normal' part. Didn't kiss ass good. Didn't get along well with my peers. Didn't dress or act properly. That, as it turned out, was one hell of a lot more important than the work I did.

I'm not against capitalism, although there's damn little of it here, or in favour of socialism, per se. I am in favour of the best deal for every one. Business, unrestrained, will loot the economy and leave as much misery as if a million Viking long ships came ashore.

And as I've pointed out before, the last functioning Marxists in our systems are the upper management of the large corporations.

 

[Guest]

Lack of incentive?! Snarl.

What fucking incentive to I have to work in our system?

I worked hard for years. Busted my ass. Was good at what I did.

But I wasn't good at the 'normal' part. Didn't kiss ass good. Didn't get along well with my peers. Didn't dress or act properly. That, as it turned out, was one hell of a lot more important than the work I did.

I'm not against capitalism, although there's damn little of it here, or in favour of socialism, per se. I am in favour of the best deal for every one. Business, unrestrained, will loot the economy and leave as much misery as if a million Viking long ships came ashore.

And as I've pointed out before, the last functioning Marxists in our systems are the upper management of the large corporations.

Rob, I love it when you snarl.

 

[rgraham666]

A couple of little factoids that, to me, show the weaknesses of our current system.

From the Congessional Budget Office.

Adjusting for inflation, the income of families in the middle of the U.S. income distribution rose from $41,400 in 1979 to $45,100 in 1997, a 9 percent increase. Meanwhile the income of families in the top 1 percent rose from $420,400 to $1.016 million, a 140 percent increase.

Also,

In the late '50s/early 60's the jointly held stock companies carried between thirty to forty percent of the tax burden, depending on where they were located in The West. A decade ago, they carried from ten to fifteen percent.

Make of that what you will.

 

[Wildcard Ky]

I'm still stuck on the $8 to go to the beach!! WTF kind of deal is that? I've never heard of paying to go to a beach.

 

[cantdog]

It keeps the riffraff out, Wildcard. Personally, I don't think anyone should own or have power to prevent trespass on any land below the high tide mark.

 

[~hellbaby~]

See, then it's your phone/internet bill.
Between my cable modem and my cell phone I pay over $100 a month.

Shit my cable[tv and modem] alone is $97. Another $80 for 2 cell phones, I figured out I'm paying $16.27 a day for medicine, that's after insurance pays some. One pill is $10.62 a day. But vonage phone service is under $20 a month, it's not very reliable though, I had it and went to just using cell phones.

 

[~hellbaby~]

I'm still stuck on the $8 to go to the beach!! WTF kind of deal is that? I've never heard of paying to go to a beach.

It helps the cost of trying to stop beach erosion. In Ocean City,NJ the beach is about half the size it was 30 years ago.

 

[Penelope Street]

Hi Rob,

I brought up the social model not because I wanted to label you but because I think deep down you're a nice guy and in a world of your choosing you'd want everyone to share their blessings, so to speak. I confess the idea does have its appeal.

The scheme you suggested in sarcasm, no rules at all, is really the only fair system, because nothing is, by definition, unfair. Of course, I think it's clear that said system would be rather unpleasant. The core point I was after is that even ideas that sound good often aren't in practice. Of course, when one goes using extremes as examples, especially negative examples, it's easy enough for a reader to make an invalid assumption about what one really intended to say.

Regardless, was I so far off regarding your vision of the ideal society? If not, could you please elaborate on what this means: I am in favour of the best deal for every one.

Take Care,
Penny

 

[rgraham666]

What I mean Penny is I would like a world where as Dr. King put it, a person is judged on the content of their character rather than their ability to be useful producing-consuming economic entities.

I would like a world where one's ability at courtly behaviour is less important to one's standing in society than one's ethics.

I would like a world where people recognised their obligations towards society.

I would, above all, like a world that I had a place in.

 

[Penelope Street]

Thanks Rob,

I confess I haven't heard or read that particular speech by Dr. King. I wouldn't mind reading it in context, but the last two items piqued my interest more than the first two.

Again in an ideal world, what are one's obligations to society? What is the social contract?

Lastly, you are a part of my world. Even when we differ.

Take Care,
Penny

 

[Guest]

Thanks Rob,

I confess I haven't heard or read that particular speech by Dr. King. I wouldn't mind reading it in context, but the last two items piqued my interest more than the first two.

Again in an ideal world, what are one's obligations to society? What is the social contract?

Lastly, you are a part of my world. Even when we differ.

Take Care,
Penny

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/Ihaveadream.htm

Martin Luther King, Jr.: "I Have a Dream"

delivered 28 August 1963, at the Lincoln Memorial, Washington D.C.

Audio mp3 of Address

Audio mp3 Stream of Address

click for pdf - see the link for the accompanying pictures

[AUTHENTICITY CERTIFIED: Text version below transcribed directly from audio. (2) ]

I am happy to join with you today in what will go down in history as the greatest demonstration for freedom in the history of our nation.

Five score years ago, a great American, in whose symbolic shadow we stand today, signed the Emancipation Proclamation. This momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions of Negro slaves who had been seared in the flames of withering injustice. It came as a joyous daybreak to end the long night of their captivity.

But one hundred years later, the Negro still is not free. One hundred years later, the life of the Negro is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination. One hundred years later, the Negro lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. One hundred years later, the Negro is still languished in the corners of American society and finds himself an exile in his own land. And so we've come here today to dramatize a shameful condition.

In a sense we've come to our nation's capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men, yes, black men as well as white men, would be guaranteed the "unalienable Rights" of "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." It is obvious today that America has defaulted on this promissory note, insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, America has given the Negro people a bad check, a check which has come back marked "insufficient funds."

But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this nation. And so, we've come to cash this check, a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice.

We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind America of the fierce urgency of Now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to make real the promises of democracy. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of segregation to the sunlit path of racial justice. Now is the time to lift our nation from the quicksands of racial injustice to the solid rock of brotherhood. Now is the time to make justice a reality for all of God's children.

It would be fatal for the nation to overlook the urgency of the moment. This sweltering summer of the Negro's legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality. Nineteen sixty-three is not an end, but a beginning. And those who hope that the Negro needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual. And there will be neither rest nor tranquility in America until the Negro is granted his citizenship rights. The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our nation until the bright day of justice emerges.

But there is something that I must say to my people, who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice: In the process of gaining our rightful place, we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again, we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force.

The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to a distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny. And they have come to realize that their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom.

We cannot walk alone.

And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall always march ahead.

We cannot turn back.

There are those who are asking the devotees of civil rights, "When will you be satisfied?" We can never be satisfied as long as the Negro is the victim of the unspeakable horrors of police brutality. We can never be satisfied as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot gain lodging in the motels of the highways and the hotels of the cities. We cannot be satisfied as long as a Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and a Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until "justice rolls down like waters, and righteousness like a mighty stream."¹

I am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from narrow jail cells. And some of you have come from areas where your quest -- quest for freedom left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering. Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive. Go back to Mississippi, go back to Alabama, go back to South Carolina, go back to Georgia, go back to Louisiana, go back to the slums and ghettos of our northern cities, knowing that somehow this situation can and will be changed.

Let us not wallow in the valley of despair, I say to you today, my friends.

And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal."

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

I have a dream today!

I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of "interposition" and "nullification" -- one day right there in Alabama little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.

I have a dream today!

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight; "and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together."²

This is our hope, and this is the faith that I go back to the South with.

With this faith, we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith, we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith, we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.

And this will be the day -- this will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with new meaning:

My country 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing.

Land where my fathers died, land of the Pilgrim's pride,

From every mountainside, let freedom ring!

And if America is to be a great nation, this must become true.

And so let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire.

Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York.

Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of
Pennsylvania.

Let freedom ring from the snow-capped Rockies of Colorado.

Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California.

But not only that:

Let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia.

Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee.

Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Mississippi.

From every mountainside, let freedom ring.

And when this happens, when we allow freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual:

Free at last! free at last!

Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!³
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

¹ Amos 5:24 (rendered precisely in The American Standard Version of the Holy Bible)

² Isaiah 40:4-5 (King James Version of the Holy Bible). Quotation marks are excluded from part of this moment in the text because King's rendering of Isaiah 40:4 does not precisely follow the KJV version from which he quotes (e.g., "hill" and "mountain" are reversed in the KJV). King's rendering of Isaiah 40:5, however, is precisely quoted from the KJV.

³ At: http://www.negrospirituals.com/news-song/free_at_last_from.htm

Also in this database: Martin Luther King, Jr: A Time to Break Silence

External Link: http://www.mlkmemorial.org/

External Link: http://www.thekingcenter.org/

Copyright Owner: Copyright inquiries and permission requests may be directed to:

Estate of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr
Intellectual Properties Management
One Freedom Plaza
449 Auburn Avenue NE
Atlanta, GA 30312
Fax: 404-526-8969

Top 100 American Speeches

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HTML transcription by Michael E. Eidenmuller
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[rgraham666]

I don't deal with ideals, Penny. They're impossible to reach. And as in the example you cited, the source of untold misery.

As far as obligations go, I would sum it up as doing our best to make sure everyone can partake of the fruits of our society, the necessary, the material and the immaterial.

As my current sig line notes, we're now here to fit into the logic of a supply-demand system. It's highly exclusionary and I would like to see something better in its place.

And thank you, sarahh. I needed a little hope this morning.

 

[cloudy]

That's still the most moving speech I've ever heard/read. Reckon it always will be. Thanks for posting it, Sarahh.

 

[Penelope Street]

Yes, thank you Sarah. Although I have read and heard that particular speech before, it never fails to moisten my eyes. My daughter recently studied it in school and we lamented together how far the dream still is from a reality.

 

[Guest]

Yes, thank you Sarah. Although I have read and heard that particular speech before, it never fails to moisten my eyes. My daughter recently studied it in school and we lamented together how far the dream still is from a reality.

I was attempting to be helpful, believing you to be exceptionally misinformed because of this previous post.

I confess I haven't heard or read that particular speech by Dr. King. I wouldn't mind reading it in context, but the last two items piqued my interest more than the first two.

But how silly of me to miss your blatant sarcasm. (That won't happen again.)

And when you are lamenting about how far away from the dream we all still may be, take a moment to reflect upon your own treatment of some of the people here.

 

[rgraham666]

I'm going to take apart one of the proponents of de-regulation's favourite metaphors: The Level Playing Field.

The Level Playing Field sounds, at first look, to be the perfect metaphor. It sounds like everybody will be working in the same arena, with no advantages and disadvantages.

But let's look at a real playing field, say football.

Sure the field is level, but that's only because people make it so, and the rules, the regulations say it has to be. And a lot of people work to keep it that way.

The rules, the regulations say that the field is one hundred yards in length, marked in ten yard intervals.

The rules say there can only be eleven people on the field from both teams. Indeed, only two teams are allowed. The equipment is regulated. Aids that would give an unfair advantage, such as drugs, are regulated. How long the game is and how the time is divided up is determined by the rules. How the ball is moved is regulated. Every action, every second of the game falls under the rules. Even how to score and who wins the game is decided by the rules.

Can you imagine what the game would be like if there were no rules? Would you even be aware that there was a game going on? Would it be any fun to play, or watch?

So it's kind of strange. The opponents of regulation use a completely regulated activity to support their arguments.

As my favourite writer puts it, "The level playing field is a naive metaphor for anarchy."

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I'm still stuck on the $8 to go to the beach!! WTF kind of deal is that? I've never heard of paying to go to a beach.

\


The beaches in Chicago are free, paid for by the city income tax. The $8 beaches are in the first suburb north of the city: Evanston, home of Northwestern University. Evanston doesn't have the tax base Chicago has, so they started charging. I don't know what happened to make Evanston's beaches, which were free five years ago, suddenly cost $8/visit. It's just like everything else: if there's a way to make you pay for something, someone will find a way to do it.

My $150 phone bill was actually my cell phone bill, which includes 3 phones and a teenager who always goes over our alloted minutes, to where they start charging 45 cents/minute. (or call, I forget which).

I was just bitching, because it seems like not only do prices on everything go up, but they keep on finding more and more things to charge you for, so that I really begin to feel like some sort of herd animal who's milked for cash everytime I turn around. No one cares about quality of life. No one cares about community. It's all about profit.

Our librarry went to a new, slick computer check-out system that's great. You can check yourself out, you get to keep the book for a month instead of three weeks (which is nice), but this system no longer provides you with a due-date stamped on the book. Your due-date for all the books you check out is printed on a little piece of paper which invariably gets lost - is designed to get lost - and the overdue charge has gone from 5 cents/day, to something like 25 cents/day. The result is, you show up with some overdue books and you're socked with a five-dollar fine or more.

Now, you can't tell me that this whole system hasn't been manipulated to generate some cash flow. The increase in fines isn't worth the increased cost to use the system. I see stuff like this all the time now. It's only a matter of time before they start charging for the air.

It's like the headline in the Onion said: "Cost Of Living No Longer Worth It"