Dems call to cut U.S. support for Saudi Arabia

[BotanyBoy]

I doubt anyone will read it, but here you go regardless.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/orde...oggi-the-muslim-brotherhood-and-saudi-arabia/

" they do not change the apparent fact that Jamal Khashoggi was kidnapped, murdered, and dismembered to silence his freedom of expression."


LOL he was a Saudi on Saudi soil....he doesn't have freedom of expression.


What is it with (D)umb fuck "journalist" who the Bill of Rights extends to the whole planet?

Morons......and then more morons read that shit and consider themselves "well educated" for it.

 

[BotanyBoy]

There is zero chance Iran would start it...Israel on the other hand...

Other than their vows and promises otherwise......what do you base that on???

Those that support murder, are no better than those that commit murder. Either we are better than them...or we lower ourselves to their level.

That assumes all murder is equal......it's not.

 

[Kirkrapine]

" they do not change the apparent fact that Jamal Khashoggi was kidnapped, murdered, and dismembered to silence his freedom of expression."


LOL he was a Saudi on Saudi soil....he doesn't have freedom of expression.

It has always been American policy to treat that as objectionable; that it is sanctioned by the laws of the state in question makes no difference.

 

[Kirkrapine]

That assumes all murder is equal......it's not.

But you will, I hope, admit this one is particularly egregious. If not -- what kind of libertarian are you, who would casually dismiss the murder of a journalist to silence his criticism of his government?!

 

[Dribble]

But you will, I hope, admit this one is particularly egregious. If not -- what kind of libertarian are you, who would casually dismiss the murder of a journalist to silence his criticism of his government?!

Ouch...

 

[BotanyBoy]

It has always been American policy to treat that as objectionable;

"treat as objectionable" is pretty open....to the point of near meaningless.

We've gone from statements of "you're mean!" to outright nuking mother fuckers for their objectionable behavior.


What exactly do you think the US should have done?

that it is sanctioned by the laws of the state in question makes no difference.

And that is where you're flat out, demonstrably, legally and in all observable reality totally fucking wrong.

The fact that it is sanctioned by the state in question within that states sovereign territory is the reason why it's NOT being investigated and prosecuted under US law.

But you will, I hope, admit this one is particularly egregious.

Why? It's standard fare for most isalmocentric monarchies/theocracies.

I think their treatment of women is what's particularly egregious.....not that any (D)'s mind it.

If not -- what kind of libertarian are you, who would casually dismiss the murder of a journalist to silence his criticism of his government?!

First off, I'm not a libertarian.

Second I'm not trying to silence criticism of his government, I'm not a lefty I don't try to de-platform or silence anyone.

I'm saying the criticism is factually incorrect.

That journalist, a Saudi citizen, didn't have freedom of expression(US civil rights) on Saudi soil. That's an irrefutable fact the "progressive" left keeps ignoring....

 

[mAnn_Tagonist]

If Iran wants nukes the US has no right to stop them. The US is the only country scummy enough to have ever used them on a population of innocent people. Let Iran bomb the fuck out of the US for all I care.

 

[BotanyBoy]

If Iran wants nukes the US has no right to stop them. The US is the only country scummy enough to have ever used them on a population of innocent people. Let Iran bomb the fuck out of the US for all I care.

When did that ever happen?

And the US has every right to stop them, Israel has every right to stop them and SHOULD.

 

[Kirkrapine]

"treat as objectionable" is pretty open....to the point of near meaningless.

We've gone from statements of "you're mean!" to outright nuking mother fuckers for their objectionable behavior.


What exactly do you think the US should have done?

Cut off military aid. Why should we be helping the Saudis in Yemen anyway?

And that is where you're flat out, demonstrably, legally and in all observable reality totally fucking wrong.

The fact that it is sanctioned by the state in question within that states sovereign territory is the reason why it's NOT being investigated and prosecuted under US law.

No one is suggesting it should be. That does not mean a political response is not warranted.

Why? It's standard fare for most isalmocentric monarchies/theocracies.

And you're cool with that?!

 

[Kirkrapine]

When did that ever happen?

Unless you're thinking in terms of Original Sin, every city is full of innocent people.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Cut off military aid. Why should we be helping the Saudis in Yemen anyway?

Making money.

No one is suggesting it should be. That does not mean a political response is not warranted.

Define "political response"....in my world that means one of two things, bullshit virtue signalling or going and fucking them up.

And you're cool with that?!

Why wouldn't I be? That's their problem not mine.

As long as they keep that shit in their country IDGAF what they do.

Unless you're thinking in terms of Original Sin, every city is full of innocent people.

LOL what a load of shit.

They were not innocent....not anymore than all the "innocent" Germans making the Nazi war machine happen.

Damn near every Japanese man woman and child supported and worked hard for the empire.

You apparently know very little about the Japanese culture or how things were in the empire during WWII, they were far more Klingon than anyone we've ever gone up against.

 

[Kirkrapine]

Making money.

The American economy can get by without those weapons contracts.

Define "political response"....in my world that means one of two things, bullshit virtue signalling or going and fucking them up.

In this case, "political response" means cutting off military support.

 

[Bray123]

The USA position with Persia is the reason why we're in the current position with Iran.

If people could (once in a while) learn a lesson from history, perhaps it would stop repeating itself.

But anyway, Trump has made it quite clear that his support for Saudi has nothing to do with Iran, Islamic Brotherhood or even oil.

It's all about dollars from arms sales.

Apparently those dollars are so important (is the US economy really in such a poor state?) that the bombing of the miserable people within the shithole country of Yemen is more important than anything else.

If a person with strong links to the USA visits a consulate in Turkey by appointment and kidnapped/tortured/murdered on the direct orders of the leaders of the nation, tough luck. Dollars count.

Sell those missiles, sell them quickly. Those Yemenis are not going to kill themselves.

 

[Busybody18]

The USA position with Persia is the reason why we're in the current position with Iran.

If people could (once in a while) learn a lesson from history, perhaps it would stop repeating itself.

But anyway, Trump has made it quite clear that his support for Saudi has nothing to do with Iran, Islamic Brotherhood or even oil.

It's all about dollars from arms sales.

Apparently those dollars are so important (is the US economy really in such a poor state?) that the bombing of the miserable people within the shithole country of Yemen is more important than anything else.

If a person with strong links to the USA visits a consulate in Turkey by appointment and kidnapped/tortured/murdered on the direct orders of the leaders of the nation, tough luck. Dollars count.

Sell those missiles, sell them quickly. Those Yemenis are not going to kill themselves.

The FAT FUCK was an MB member and an ememy of SA

The "people" of ShitHole cuntry Yemen missiles into SA

So FUCKEM

 

[BotanyBoy]

The American economy can get by without those weapons contracts.

Yea.

But why should it?

Make money!

In this case, "political response" means cutting off military support.

But why??

Because they executed one of their own? Or don't recognize freedom of speech/the press as a right??

Well, by either standard we'd wind up extremely isolated from the world.

 

[Bray123]

Damn near every Japanese man woman and child supported and worked hard for the empire.

You apparently know very little about the Japanese culture or how things were in the empire during WWII, they were far more Klingon than anyone we've ever gone up against.

True.
But were they more guilty of being part of the war machine than the sailors who were torpedoed in their merchant ships in US coastal waters? The people bombed in Pearl Harbour?

The old women and babies eking their lives out in the provincial cities that received the benefit were not really part of the effort.

I'm not saying that the atom bomb wasn't necessary, the prompt surrender saved many lives on both sides without doubt. But don't make out that they were all active combatants.

 

[DeluxAuto]

True.
But were they more guilty of being part of the war machine than the sailors who were torpedoed in their merchant ships in US coastal waters? The people bombed in Pearl Harbour?

The old women and babies eking their lives out in the provincial cities that received the benefit were not really part of the effort.

I'm not saying that the atom bomb wasn't necessary, the prompt surrender saved many lives on both sides without doubt. But don't make out that they were all active combatants.

His graduation into adulthood has been severally stunted. Either that or he is too young to be here.

 

[BotanyBoy]

True.
But were they more guilty of being part of the war machine than the sailors who were torpedoed in their merchant ships in US coastal waters?

No, but I didn't consider US merchant mariners innocents either.

The people bombed in Pearl Harbour?

Absolutely, those people nor our country as a whole had done ANYTHING to the Japanese.

If you remember correctly, they sneak attacked us, which immediately put the results of everything that followed squarely at the feet of the Japanese empire.

But don't make out that they were all active combatants.

I didn't, I didn't even suggest such a thing.

 

[BotanyBoy]

His graduation into adulthood has been severally stunted. Either that or he is too young to be here.

Shit talk.....hallmark of those not sharp enough to argue their points if they even have any.

 

[Kirkrapine]

Yea.

But why should it?

Same reason the Brits should've gotten by without the Chinese opium trade, only in this case more compelling -- few people actually died from opium.

But why??

Because they executed one of their own? Or don't recognize freedom of speech/the press as a right??

Well, by either standard we'd wind up extremely isolated from the world.

It has not been too long since a lot of people on messageboards were demanding America be the apostle of democracy throughout the world, and overthrow every dictatorship. I never agreed with that, highly impractical, but I could appreciate the spirit behind it. If we don't establish democracy by force, we can at least apply all the political pressure at our disposal to make clear that the kind of thing SA does will have undesired consequences.


Also, Khashoggi was one of our own, he was a journalist working for an American media outlet. We need to send a strong message that it is never safe to touch such.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Same reason the Brits should've gotten by without the Chinese opium trade, only in this case more compelling -- few people actually died from opium.

So you can't actually give a reason. Noted.

It has not been too long since a lot of people on messageboards were demanding America be the apostle of democracy throughout the world, and overthrow every dictatorship. I never agreed with that, highly impractical, but I could appreciate the spirit behind it. If we don't establish democracy by force, we can at least apply all the political pressure at our disposal to make clear that the kind of thing SA does will have undesired consequences.

But why?

Democracies all over kill their own every day....we don't grenade or relations with them over it.

Also, Khashoggi was one of our own,

And that is the bullshit right there you're building all this other silly shit around....he was not one of our own, he was a Saudi citizen, subject to the Saudi crown.

Can't build a good argument on a foundation of bullshit.

 

[OldJourno]

A US worker was killed in a Consulate. There is a YUGE difference between that and us killing terrorists. I stand with America on this issue. Won't you please join me?

Just skimming through the thread and this post caught my eye. Is it in reference to Benghazi?

 

[Busybody18]

sorta cute

LIBZ are AGHAST at the death a FOREIGN CITIZEN in a FOREIGN COUNTRY

but could care less at the MURDER of OUR PEOPLE IN LIBYA!

 

[Busybody18]

This has ZERO to do with the death of a FAT FUCK MB TERRORIST

This has to do with TDS!

 

[Kirkrapine]

So you can't actually give a reason. Noted.

Isn't the reason obvious to you?! It's moral. The Brits should not have been selling the Chinese stuff to ruin themselves, and we should not be selling SA stuff to kill their neighbors.

But why?

Democracies all over kill their own every day....we don't grenade or relations with them over it.

They're democracies -- their track records in that regard are the best in history, and their people can always hold the government to account when it goes too far.

And that is the bullshit right there you're building all this other silly shit around....he was not one of our own, he was a Saudi citizen, subject to the Saudi crown.

He was not an American citizen but he was an American journalist. That should be enough to make him sacrosanct and inviolable. I know the current Admin does not appreciate the unique civic value and importance of our journalists, but I should hope you do, even of the worst of them.