Demonizing sex workers

[NoTalentHack]

Is there a female equivalent to misogyny? Plenty of women shame men and this is not condemned. Count me as one man who does not appreciate it. I’m a good man, or I like to think so. I’ve encountered my share of bad people of both genders. If I knew more nonbinary people, I’d probably see good and bad there too. I don’t demonize people unless they have earned it. And I always like (and give) a chance to atone.

I too have enjoyed it when women say things like “I’ll always want you, babe.” Of course it upsets me if and when I find out they’re lying- when that happens, I treasure the memories of when it was real.

The term is "misandry," but it's usually misapplied. There are some examples, but as is often the case, they tend to be more of a misogyny boomerang than anything else. The classic case is how divorce courts and custody hearings tend to work out in favor of women getting support and custody, which gets called misandry; but they're a result of systemic biases that expect/encourage women to be the primary child carers and to put their career second to their husbands. Is it misandry? Sure, but it only exists because of a shitton of misogyny that enables it first.

 

[djrip]

Is there a female equivalent to misogyny? Plenty of women shame men and this is not condemned. Count me as one man who does not appreciate it. I’m a good man, or I like to think so. I’ve encountered my share of bad people of both genders. If I knew more nonbinary people, I’d probably see good and bad there too. I don’t demonize people unless they have earned it. And I always like (and give) a chance to atone.

I too have enjoyed it when women say things like “I’ll always want you, babe.” Of course it upsets me if and when I find out they’re lying- when that happens, I treasure the memories of when it was real.

Misandry.

 

[AchtungNight]

Misandry.

Thx. For the record I have seen much bad in women, men too. I’m also giving them both a chance to improve their attitudes over time because I have seen them at their best and worst before. I feel similar about all human beings. Comes from being raised as an agnostic Christian who values the whole forgiveness thing.

 

[MelissaBaby]

The quality of your writing probably transcends the prejudice of some of your readers.

Em

That's very kind, but I think it has more to do with the category. Most of those stories were in Novels and Novellas.

 

[lovecraft68]

Men who degrade strippers, porn stars, escorts, Only fan women etc...seem to overlook a very important fact

Those women wouldn't be making money selling sex if there weren't MEN paying for it.

So maybe instead of bullying and demonizing women they should have a talk with their own gender

Oops, can't do that, might get the beaten they deserve so they'll stick to attacking women, and even then mostly on line.

 

[lovecraft68]

Thx. For the record I have seen much bad in women, men too. I’m also giving them both a chance to improve their attitudes over time because I have seen them at their best and worst before. I feel similar about all human beings. Comes from being raised as an agnostic Christian who values the whole forgiveness thing.

There are bad in both genders, problem is its always accepted for the men to be bad, but when a woman is reeeeeeeeeeee

When a female teacher is caught with a male student she should be crucified, when a male teacher is caught, well the little slut was leading him on.

I occasionally watch a YT channel about a private group that has decoys online to find people trying to prey on minors. They have dozens of videos all around a 100kish in views and all men because its mostly men who are online looking for underage girls-and boys. They have one video where a woman was grooming a young kid to provide said thrill. That video has close to triple the views.

All those YT channels that show cops arresting people, all the true crime channels, almost every thumbnail I see is "a woman does..." like men commit no crimes, and they do have videos of men of course, but they know how to lead don't they?

Amber Heard's career is over for whatever may or may not have happened with her drunken history of violence yet somehow innocent ex, but Ezra Miller literally went on a crime spree and got the leading role in The Flash

So, yeah good and bad, but only the women are bad, and any man that denies it simply doesn't want to see it. Women are held to a double standard in every way, men? Well guys are guys, right?

Notalenthack can now come running in with all the other mansplaining manbabies to defend themselves....as usual and remind me of why my own gender constantly makes me sick.

 

[theWollstonecraftWoman]

Is there a female equivalent to misogyny? Plenty of women shame men and this is not condemned. Count me as one man who does not appreciate it. I’m a good man, or I like to think so. I’ve encountered my share of bad people of both genders. If I knew more nonbinary people, I’d probably see good and bad there too. I don’t demonize people unless they have earned it. And I always like (and give) a chance to atone.

I too have enjoyed it when women say things like “I’ll always want you, babe.” Of course it upsets me if and when I find out they’re lying- when that happens, I treasure the memories of when it was real.

Misandry is a hatred, dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men (i.e. the male sex). As in, "poorly disguised misandry" see the picture of Millie for an example of a misandrist. Just kidding, she only hates some men.

 

[Lifestyle66]

...

When a female teacher is caught with a male student she should be crucified, when a male teacher is caught, well the little slut was leading him on.
...

What universe do you live in?

I've read news stories about male teachers getting serious prison time for doing female students, and stories of female teachers getting caught with underage boys. In the blogs on those stories, it's the female teachers many bloggers are stunned that they're being punished. The attitude of many men is "I wish she was a teacher when I was in school." or "This has to be false, because what teenage boy would turn her in and lose access to that?"

 

[Lifestyle66]

...

When a female teacher is caught with a male student she should be crucified, when a male teacher is caught, well the little slut was leading him on.

...

Speak of the devil ... There's a story on a major news network, which allows blogger to post comments on this very issue.

Female teacher accused of seducing a 16-year old boy, exchanging provocative pics.

Some comments for that article:
*****

why couldn't u have teachers that looked like that and why couldn't I get invited, I wouldn't have told. Two people the age of 16 are allowed to have consensual sex so where is the problem?
******
Question is why does she need more sex from a child? Was she not getting it good?
******
Acting as a teacher, she did nothing wrong.
******
I would have been all over that as a teen. A friend of mine hooked up with a teacher in HS, but unfortunately, I never came close.
*****
Any friend of mine in high school tapping a 20+ year old woman would've been a class hero. They would've got a huge Atta Boy and high five
*****
Hot for teacher
****

And the list goes on.

 

[Gamblnluck]

otalenthack can now come running in with all the other mansplaining manbabies to defend themselves....as usual and remind me of why my own gender constantly makes me sick.

You also said..When a female teacher is caught with a male student she should be crucified, when a male teacher is caught, well the little slut was leading him on.

All of which is bullshit. You must lead one jaundiced life. Kind of like some of society that blames the cops every time a POC goes to jail and claim it racist. Never looking at several underlying conditions.

A male teacher having sex with a student is a predator just like the woman. It is just that there are so few (relatively) women doing it that it gets a lot of attention in the media.

I view sex work like I do anything else. Like stealing for a living. If you are starving, have to feed your kids and steal then I can forgive that a LOT faster than you are too lazy to get a job. Same with whoring or stripping. If you are doing it out of desperation, fine. I can also see a young woman who decided to whore herself, earn a quarter million a year as a high priced call girl and then live a good life. Her assets have a short shelf life but okay if it is her choice. Forcing a woman, human trafficking is another matter.

Now I am NOT talking about the erotic stories where women are blackmailed to be whores. I am talking real life. You tell me, would you accept your daughter whoring herself? (Hey girl, better to sell your pussy for big bucks than giving it away to your boyfriend for dinner.)

How about your wife? (Yeah baby, make that money. Don't worry about bringing home some wild STD we'll have for life.)

 

[NoTalentHack]

There are bad in both genders, problem is its always accepted for the men to be bad, but when a woman is reeeeeeeeeeee

When a female teacher is caught with a male student she should be crucified, when a male teacher is caught, well the little slut was leading him on.

Lifestyle66 already schooled you on this, so I'm not going to bother. But... yeah. As usual, you're wrong.

Skipping all the YouTube stuff because, film at 11, YT commenters on true crime shit are trash. Really on the cutting edge there.

Amber Heard's career is over for whatever may or may not have happened with her drunken history of violence yet somehow innocent ex, but Ezra Miller literally went on a crime spree and got the leading role in The Flash

Miller had the role on the Flash before he went berserk, first playing the character in Justice League in 2017. Principal filming for the solo Flash movie ended in October 2021, and Miller's crime spree happened in 2022. They have no upcoming projects listed on IMDB, and their only project in 2023 was the Flash.

Amber Heard had a project (In the Fire) in 2023 that started filming after the allegations against her surfaced. She also reprised her role of Mera in Aquaman 2, which hasn't been released yet.

Wikipedia and IMDB are right there, man.

Notalenthack can now come running in with all the other mansplaining manbabies to defend themselves....as usual and remind me of why my own gender constantly makes me sick.

It warms my heart to know that if I'm ever homeless, I'll still be able to live in your head rent free.

Seriously, dude. You're being creepy now.

 

[djrip]

Odd reactions. Sex workers are women with lives. Why would anyone care if she is married with children? It is a high risk job, but they make a good living. Odd that some people find the profession offensive.

I don't find the profession offensive on it's own, but it's not that weird for people to not like the idea of their spouse having sex with a bunch of random other people. Even a husband who was okay with an open relationship with the wife having like a boyfriend on the side might balk at prostitution with numerous strangers. This is in general, I still have to read the story. The husband in the story could be fine with it, and the scenario could still bother some readers who would not be fine with it themselves. I think a male sex worker who leaves his family every night to go have sex with lots of random women would also draw negative reactions. Few people would be okay with either scenario in real life, I suspect. But I'm sure the story will be an insightful and nuanced look at such a situation in action!

 

[joy_of_cooking]

It about comments like “no man would let his wife do that” and “no man would marry a whore” and “what do they tell the child about her disgusting work?”

I wouldn't phrase my reactions quite like that, but there is something I find unusual and complicated and interesting about marrying a sex worker.

Let's take the most inoffensive of these: what do they tell the kids? There's definitely a decision to be made here. It's a highly stigmatized job. Imagine if your mom were a drug dealer or a cop or something. Do you tell them the truth? Do you let them tell others the truth? Do you encourage them to consider the same career themselves?

I would be super curious to read a story that follows the development of a relationship between a sex worker and someone who is not immediately and unthinkingly on board with it. I would love to listen to the conversations he has with himself and her and friends and family, to see the compromises and understandings that emerge.

I have no idea how representative this is of the people commenting on your stories. But I also don't think the fact that your sex worker characters has a husband and children is as unremarkable as I think you'd like it to be.

 

[lovecraft68]

Tom Cruise is a longtime Scientologist. It cost him one marriage with his weirdness and he used it to try to brainwash and abduct his second(and of course much younger wife)

Well now for whatever reason Cruise wants out of it and is denouncing it. Okay, fine...except when I clicked on the main article there are links to several others. Two fo which claim Cruises first wife(how many has this asshat had?) Mimi Rogers got him into it...

Because no way in hell could anything be a man's fault, right? Even in this, it was never poor Tom, he was misled by an evil woman.

Yeah, of course, that's why he stayed with it for so long after that divorce. Just remember people, its never a man's fault.

 

[lovecraft68]

I just realized who started this thread...now its even more hilarious

 

[Lifestyle66]

...
I would be super curious to read a story that follows the development of a relationship between a sex worker and someone who is not immediately and unthinkingly on board with it. I would love to listen to the conversations he has with himself and her and friends and family, to see the compromises and understandings that emerge.
...

The movie is "Pretty Woman" with Julia Roberts and Richard Gere.

 

[djrip]

The movie is "Pretty Woman" with Julia Roberts and Richard Gere.

No, that movie is about him pulling her out of her sex work job, not marrying her while she continues to see clients...

 

[Lifestyle66]

No, that movie is about him pulling her out of her sex work job, not marrying her while she continues to see clients...

She made her own choice to stop the sex work, but we don't know that she really stopped it. They should have made a sequel!

 

[djrip]

She made her own choice to stop the sex work, but we don't know that she really stopped it. They should have made a sequel!

Good point! "Hey I know money's not a concern anymore but I just love my career!"

 

[NoTalentHack]

Tom Cruise is a longtime Scientologist. It cost him one marriage with his weirdness and he used it to try to brainwash and abduct his second(and of course much younger wife)

Well now for whatever reason Cruise wants out of it and is denouncing it. Okay, fine...except when I clicked on the main article there are links to several others. Two fo which claim Cruises first wife(how many has this asshat had?) Mimi Rogers got him into it...

Because no way in hell could anything be a man's fault, right? Even in this, it was never poor Tom, he was misled by an evil woman.

Yeah, of course, that's why he stayed with it for so long after that divorce. Just remember people, its never a man's fault.

Go ahead and keep building more strawmen.

Then you can argue against someone at your own level. The rest of us will be over here talking about the topic, instead of trying to score points with, "Oh yeah? Well what about this random tangent? How about this one, huh? Sure showed you, person who wasn't discussing this at all."

 

[NoTalentHack]

Good point! "Hey I know money's not a concern anymore but I just love my career!"

"And honey, you're great at it!"

Shades of Victor Kiam. "I liked it so much, I bought the company!"

 

[AchtungNight]

Tom Cruise is a longtime Scientologist. It cost him one marriage with his weirdness and he used it to try to brainwash and abduct his second(and of course much younger wife)

Well now for whatever reason Cruise wants out of it and is denouncing it. Okay, fine...except when I clicked on the main article there are links to several others. Two fo which claim Cruises first wife(how many has this asshat had?) Mimi Rogers got him into it...

Because no way in hell could anything be a man's fault, right? Even in this, it was never poor Tom, he was misled by an evil woman.

Yeah, of course, that's why he stayed with it for so long after that divorce. Just remember people, its never a man's fault.

You don’t need to tell me about Tom Cruise, I’ve written fanfic about him. He’s been married three times that the media knows about and I’ve heard so many cruel rumors about his relationships, religion, and philosophy that I can no longer comfortably write about them. I don’t know for sure if he is giving up Scientology, I only heard he was distancing himself. Until he gets in Leah Remini’s podcast of his own volition, I won’t believe the media hype that says he’s leaving Scientology. She’s still a messed-up person too, by the way. So is everyone.

Regarding Scientology, there are a lot of misconceptions about it. The biggest- it doesn’t have to be negative. Ask Catherine Bell, who I hear still finds it a worthy philosophy while having lived with a female lover for over a decade. Or Erika Christensen, happily married to a Christian man and not trying to convert him without his cooperation far as I know. Or Marisol Nichols, Kirstie Alley, John Travolta, and others who still were praising it last I heard. I don’t fully share their opinions, I’ve been called a Freezoner squirrel by crazy fanatics who claim to be better at following the philosophy but are unrecognized as such. At least they haven’t read my fanfic and commented on it.

Don’t get me started on the founder of Scientology and the woman who helped him develop some of the worst of its issues, who was literally named Mary Sue.

Calming down, I am not sure I’d want to date a sex worker. Wait. I have dated strippers, sex therapists, and porn stars… are they the same thing as hookers? And I myself am a client of sex workers, a proud erotic writer, and a fan of erotic fiction. I guess I am a sex worker too. And the child of one, considering how my mother’s talked to me about working to please herself and my father sometimes.

Well, shit.

 

[djrip]

Why is the assumption that the only sex work a wife could do is prostitution?

Phone sex, videos, photos, selling worn underwear... All variations of sex work and there are others beyond that.

Speaking for myself, I thought we were talking about prostitution specifically. I don't think foot modeling is likely to have the same level of negative reaction. A stripper is somewhere in the middle. But sex with other people seems like a bright line many spouses would not accept, even if they were fine with stripping or phone sex or whatever. But I think all levels have potential for interesting effects on relationships and emotions of partners.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I wouldn't phrase my reactions quite like that, but there is something I find unusual and complicated and interesting about marrying a sex worker.

Let's take the most inoffensive of these: what do they tell the kids? There's definitely a decision to be made here. It's a highly stigmatized job. Imagine if your mom were a drug dealer or a cop or something. Do you tell them the truth? Do you let them tell others the truth? Do you encourage them to consider the same career themselves?

I would be super curious to read a story that follows the development of a relationship between a sex worker and someone who is not immediately and unthinkingly on board with it. I would love to listen to the conversations he has with himself and her and friends and family, to see the compromises and understandings that emerge.

I have no idea how representative this is of the people commenting on your stories. But I also don't think the fact that your sex worker characters has a husband and children is as unremarkable as I think you'd like it to be.

I did not write about that particular situation, but I covered similar issues in The Gold Dollar Girls. (Strippers, not prostitutes).

I don't want to make assumptions about where anyone is coming from, but I have some sense of different class perspectives in this discussion. I've known a fair number of sex workers, dancers, prostitutes, sugar babies, etc. It's not unusual for sex workers to be married to a spouse who has full knowledge and approval of their occupation. Generally, in my experience, they were people from disadvantaged backgrounds, who set aside any moral objections they might have held in order to take advantage of one of the few economic opportunities that were available to them.

 

[theWollstonecraftWoman]

I don't find the profession offensive on it's own, but it's not that weird for people to not like the idea of their spouse having sex with a bunch of random other people. Even a husband who was okay with an open relationship with the wife having like a boyfriend on the side might balk at prostitution with numerous strangers. This is in general, I still have to read the story. The husband in the story could be fine with it, and the scenario could still bother some readers who would not be fine with it themselves. I think a male sex worker who leaves his family every night to go have sex with lots of random women would also draw negative reactions. Few people would be okay with either scenario in real life, I suspect. But I'm sure the story will be an insightful and nuanced look at such a situation in action!

At least two of the Earp brothers married practicing prostitutes. I think the common law wife that Wyatt Earp lived with at the time of OK Coral was, at the very least, a former prostitute. But that was then, and this is now. First, prostitution wasn't illegal at that time. Second, it isn't the glamorous life portrayed in movies. Most women in the profession are controlled by a pimp. It isn't a high-paying job in this country.