Defining Love

[~Dream~]

Burning Passion
We both feel the glow of passion,
Shining deep in the night with desires
And with the thrill of your soft kisses,
And the touch, your fingertips so warm,
My body starts to shiver, and quiver,
In a silence of total ecstasy...

Offering both of ourselves with no demands
Fiery passions, seductive plans,
Luscious cravings, sweetest love
And showering me with feelings,
Of your... embrace,
As I relieve all of my flames,
My body begins to tremble with ecstasy...

Taking me in your strong arms you lift me,
And carry me before the blazing fire,
And slowly lay me down as we feel,
Love's... desire
That flows swiftly through our veins,
With the burning flames flickering thru,
On our bodies, melting together as one,
Having a romantic evening of pure ecstasy.

 

[midwestyankee]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A creative reciprocity between self and other, independence and union

All of which is a definition of action and reaction to love, not love itself.

My contention is that love is an action. It is not an ethereal essence. I think there is a fundamental reason why, when we choose to commit ourselves to someone we say "I love you" and not "I feel love about you."

Now, as to the mystery behind how it is that any two people decide that they will open their souls and love each other - ah, now that is something to wonder about in awe.

 

[GiveawayGirl]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A creative reciprocity between self and other, independence and union

My contention is that love is an action. It is not an ethereal essence. I think there is a fundamental reason why, when we choose to commit ourselves to someone we say "I love you" and not "I feel love about you."

Now, as to the mystery behind how it is that any two people decide that they will open their souls and love each other - ah, now that is something to wonder about in awe.

If in fact that were the case then how is it one finds themselves feeling the emotions of love for another without making a conscious choice to do so, or even when they do not want to?

You can't make yourself love someone, it just happens.......all on its own. Beyond that, you can choose to do something with that gift, but even if you choose not to, that doesn't mean it does not exist.

 

[~Dream~]

the 3 words themselves express the actually feeling though and then there is the physical ,the mental and the Emotional sides of love as well...

here are some famous quotes about Love...

Other men said they have seen angels,
But I have seen thee
And thou art enough.
~ by G. Moore ~

I would fly you to the moon and back if you'll be . . . if you'll be my baby.
~ From a song by Savage Garden ~

I love you - those three words have my life in them.
~ by Alexandrea to Nicholas III ~

What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
~ by Ralph Waldo Emerson ~

I have been astonished that men could die martyrs for their religion -
I have shudder'd at it.
I shudder no more.
I could be martyr'd for my religion
Love is my religion
And I could die for that.
I could die for you.
~ by John Keats ~

I'd like to run away
From you,
But if you didn't come
And find me ...
I would die.
~ by Shirley Bassey ~

When you love someone, all your saved-up wishes start coming out.
~ by Elizabeth Bowen (1899-1973) ~

The greatest thing you'll ever learn
Is to love and be loved in return.
~ From "Unforgettable with Love" by Natalie Cole
~

 

[midwestyankee]

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If in fact that were the case then how is it one finds themselves feeling the emotions of love for another without making a conscious choice to do so, or even when they do not want to?

You can't make yourself love someone, it just happens.......all on its own. Beyond that, you can choose to do something with that gift, but even if you choose not to, that doesn't mean it does not exist.

What you're describing here, it seems to me, is that mystery I mentioned. I certainly can't explain how it is that one finds himself feeling the emotions of love for another. But I don't think that feeling those emotions is the whole story. To me, the love only happens when one acts on those emotions to extend oneself to that beloved.

 

[GiveawayGirl]

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To me, the love only happens when one acts on those emotions to extend oneself to that beloved.

I disagree....love can manifest itself at anytime and in any place. Making a conscious choice to explore it can expand it, but it was there already.

 

[~Dream~]

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What you're describing here, it seems to me, is that mystery I mentioned. I certainly can't explain how it is that one finds himself feeling the emotions of love for another. But I don't think that feeling those emotions is the whole story. To me, the love only happens when one acts on those emotions to extend oneself to that beloved.

I have to disagree here ..the love is STILL there for someone whether or not it gets 'expressed 'or not ...for example I deeply LOVe my friend whowill someday be More than that and he is Miles away right now In prison ..However we express the words but have both KNOWN for some time that the feelings we had were REAL for each other ....and whether or not we actually got around to expressing them ..and recently did ...does NOt mean that the Love wasnt there..


one cant ALWAYS ACT on the emotions ..see what I mean??

 

[GiveawayGirl]

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I have to disagree here ..the love is STILL there for someone whether or not it gets 'expressed 'or not ...for example I deeply LOVe my friend whowill someday be More than that and he is Miles away right now In prison ..However we express the words but have both KNOWN for some time that the feelings we had were REAL for each other ....and whether or not we actually got around to expressing them ..and recently did ...does NOt mean that the Love wasnt there..


one cant ALWAYS ACT on the emotions ..see what I mean??

Exactly!

I can love someone deeply yet, for whatever reason, that situation my not be workable for me. That does not diminish the love that I feel, just the possibilities for it's long term expansion.

 

[~Dream~]

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Exactly!

I can love someone deeply yet, for whatever reason, that situation my not be workable for me. That does not diminish the love that I feel, just the possibilities for it's long term expansion.

yes!! the Love ,itself ,is STILL there nonetheless...just like what if a person is handicapped and CANt ever have sex?? then you just pour your heart and feelings out for them in a different way ..thats all ..If miles seperate you..You write ,or call ..Or even simply remember the other person in your prayers and or dreams...

Love is way too powerful to be expressed in only 1 way...there are several types of Love and several ways Of expressing it..In my belief of Course, God's Love is the greatest Love of all ..Or none of us would be here

 

[midwestyankee]

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Exactly!

I can love someone deeply yet, for whatever reason, that situation my not be workable for me. That does not diminish the love that I feel, just the possibilities for it's long term expansion.

Question: what does it look like to love someone deeply? Is it strictly an internal feeling that the other might not know about? If that's it, then I think it isn't love but something you're doing inside yourself to please yourself. We certainly don't do anything for our beloved merely by feeling something internally.

My daughter might have said at one time that she just "loved" a certain singer. He certainly never knew about it. She did nothing to affect his life and he did nothing directly for her. How can that be love? Most of us would agree that it's not love. It's just the internal emotions of a young teenager.

But how is it any different when a mature adult holds powerful feelings for another but does nothing to express them or act on them? How is that any truer love than a pre-teen's infatuation with a pop idol?

 

[GiveawayGirl]

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Question: what does it look like to love someone deeply? Is it strictly an internal feeling that the other might not know about? If that's it, then I think it isn't love but something you're doing inside yourself to please yourself. We certainly don't do anything for our beloved merely by feeling something internally.

My daughter might have said at one time that she just "loved" a certain singer. He certainly never knew about it. She did nothing to affect his life and he did nothing directly for her. How can that be love? Most of us would agree that it's not love. It's just the internal emotions of a young teenager.

But how is it any different when a mature adult holds powerful feelings for another but does nothing to express them or act on them? How is that any truer love than a pre-teen's infatuation with a pop idol?

One does not need to "do" anything to experience love. Nor does there need to be a tangible sign of it for it to exist.

As Dream pointed out, there are different types of love for different types of situations. Although different, it doesn't diminish their reality.

I certainly can love someone deeply without ever expressing it. That does not mean it's any less powerful than if I shouted it from the rooftops.

Someone need not do something for me in order for love to be present.

I think this is where we differ yankee......love is a state of being, a very real yet intangible thing.

Love can be present whether you want it to be there or not, whether you look for it or not, whether you acknowldedge it or not, and whether you choose to embrace it or not.

As I said earlier...it defies logic. That simply fact makes it impossible to define.

 

[~Dream~]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A creative reciprocity between self and other, indep

Question: what does it look like to love someone deeply? Is it strictly an internal feeling that the other might not know about? If that's it, then I think it isn't love but something you're doing inside yourself to please yourself. We certainly don't do anything for our beloved merely by feeling something internally.

My daughter might have said at one time that she just "loved" a certain singer. He certainly never knew about it. She did nothing to affect his life and he did nothing directly for her. How can that be love? Most of us would agree that it's not love. It's just the internal emotions of a young teenager.

But how is it any different when a mature adult holds powerful feelings for another but does nothing to express them or act on them? How is that any truer love than a pre-teen's infatuation with a pop idol?

well I do have to say that I would hope that a 'mature Adult' would have a little bit better Grasp on their feelings tho.GG In all due respect ..teens Most normally act on 'Hormones'..Not saying they Dont feel love at all But its not a Love that has grown or really has alot of Substance...and You can also have Powerful feelings For another person and yet NOt be 'In love' with them ..

 

[GiveawayGirl]

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well I do have to say that I would hope that a 'mature Adult' would have a little bit better Grasp on their feelings tho.GG In all due respect ..teens Most normally act on 'Hormones'..Not saying they Dont feel love at all But its not a Love that has grown or really has alot of Substance...and You can also have Powerful feelings For another person and yet NOt be 'In love' with them ..

I absolutely agree. My point is not what is or isn't love though. My point is that you can experience love without actively seeking it or doing anything about it. It is a force unto itself which leads to action, not as a result of action.

 

[Cathleen]

I absolutely agree. My point is not what is or isn't love though. My point is that you can experience love without actively seeking it or doing anything about it. It is a force unto itself which leads to action, not as a result of action.

I don't think you can love without some kind of action or expression from yourself. If you never tell or express your love to the other person the love still exists in you and your thoughts are still loving thoughts. You can't not want good for them, and that in itself is an expression of the love you feel for them. As if I say my thoughts are with you - just that is an expression of my love.

 

[GiveawayGirl]

I don't think you can love without some kind of action or expression from yourself. If you never tell or express your love to the other person the love still exists in you and your thoughts are still loving thoughts. You can't not want good for them, and that in itself is an expression of the love you feel for them. As if I say my thoughts are with you - just that is an expression of my love.

I would have to agree with you Cathleen. Sometimes the simple act of not acting can be an act of love, but the other person doesn't necessarily need to know about it for it to still be real.

 

[midwestyankee]

I have read the last several posts and rather than reply to each, let me say simply that I just don't think it's love when all you experience is internal emotion. That's a very self-centered situation. To me, love has to involve the second person.

It's not essential that the other person be fully aware of the beloved. For example, a mother can love an infant and the infant is hardly aware of the love on a cognitive level. But the mother's love has an impact on the life of the infant. An elderly wife can tend to her ailing husband who is comatose. Is he aware? Possibly not. Is her tending to his comfort an act of love? Of course.

I make the distinction between "being in love" and "loving." The distinction is that when one feels in love, it's all about the internal emotions felt in the presence of the other or prompted by thoughts of the other. That's completely self-centered. Loving, on the other hand, is when you extend yourself in service to the other, in caring for the other, in giving to the other. Only when we involve ourselves in the life of the other do we truly love. Anything else is just emotion.

Now, even when a relationship grows and the partners start to love one another (using my definition) there is strong emotion. The emotions don't go away, though I believe they change and evolve. But the emotions aren't loving. Loving is something you do for another, not for yourself (except when you're talking about loving yourself, which is another story - though related).

 

[Cathleen]

I don't disagree with your Yank, however, whether the loved one is aware or not, its my actions toward them that is the loving act. I find it difficult to not be loving in my actions towards those I love. Even when there is a disagreement or tension between us, I still ACT lovingly toward them and for them. Loving someone need not be a billboard kind of action, sometimes its as subtle as a handmade sign.

 

[midwestyankee]

I don't disagree with your Yank, however, whether the loved one is aware or not, its my actions toward them that is the loving act. I find it difficult to not be loving in my actions towards those I love. Even when there is a disagreement or tension between us, I still ACT lovingly toward them and for them. Loving someone need not be a billboard kind of action, sometimes its as subtle as a handmade sign.

Exactly. It's the actions that make the difference and not the emotions that may be behind the actions.

Now, I will say that one of the finest experiences in this life is to surrender yourself to these emotions of love. Think of all the poetry (good and bad) that has been written from these emotions. The feeling that you are loved is one of the fundamentally essential feelings in life. Without it we are desolate and often miserable.

So please, gentle posters, don't jump all over me for saying that love is more than the internal emotions. I am as enthralled with them as anyone. But if I never act on those emotions they are of no benefit to my beloved. And can it possibly be love if I never do anything of benefit to my beloved? That's really my point here.

 

[Cathleen]

Exactly. It's the actions that make the difference and not the emotions that may be behind the actions.

Now, I will say that one of the finest experiences in this life is to surrender yourself to these emotions of love. Think of all the poetry (good and bad) that has been written from these emotions. The feeling that you are loved is one of the fundamentally essential feelings in life. Without it we are desolate and often miserable.

So please, gentle posters, don't jump all over me for saying that love is more than the internal emotions. I am as enthralled with them as anyone. But if I never act on those emotions they are of no benefit to my beloved. And can it possibly be love if I never do anything of benefit to my beloved? That's really my point here.

Please tell me just what kind of action of which you speak. Isn't a gentle hand or kindness an act of love? I love many people and my actions towards them vary greatly, some actions are quiet and kind while others are loud and apparent. I agree, love is all about action.

 

[GiveawayGirl]

I have read the last several posts and rather than reply to each, let me say simply that I just don't think it's love when all you experience is internal emotion. That's a very self-centered situation. To me, love has to involve the second person.

It's not essential that the other person be fully aware of the beloved. For example, a mother can love an infant and the infant is hardly aware of the love on a cognitive level. But the mother's love has an impact on the life of the infant. An elderly wife can tend to her ailing husband who is comatose. Is he aware? Possibly not. Is her tending to his comfort an act of love? Of course.

I make the distinction between "being in love" and "loving." The distinction is that when one feels in love, it's all about the internal emotions felt in the presence of the other or prompted by thoughts of the other. That's completely self-centered. Loving, on the other hand, is when you extend yourself in service to the other, in caring for the other, in giving to the other. Only when we involve ourselves in the life of the other do we truly love. Anything else is just emotion.

Now, even when a relationship grows and the partners start to love one another (using my definition) there is strong emotion. The emotions don't go away, though I believe they change and evolve. But the emotions aren't loving. Loving is something you do for another, not for yourself (except when you're talking about loving yourself, which is another story - though related).

Again, I disagree with the assertion that love can only exist as an action responded to by another.

Take for an example the case of a mother who surrenders her child for adoption. Although the actual surrender is an act of love, she could very well have never seen her child. She may very well never again know anything about that child. Yet do you doubt that she will love that child deeply until the day she dies? The emotions she feels require no further action on her part, they are not infatuation, yet they will persist. She will feel love for that child forever.

Of course is an emotion. It's something one feels. But just because one doesn't pursue that emotion does not remove it from existence.

And because it is an internal experience it is self-centered by default. But by your definition, "loving" someone is equally as self-centered. By the act of exhibiting loving actions toward another we are fulfilling needs within ourself to show that person our love, or to be loved in return.

 

[GiveawayGirl]

Exactly. It's the actions that make the difference and not the emotions that may be behind the actions.

Now, I will say that one of the finest experiences in this life is to surrender yourself to these emotions of love. Think of all the poetry (good and bad) that has been written from these emotions. The feeling that you are loved is one of the fundamentally essential feelings in life. Without it we are desolate and often miserable.

So please, gentle posters, don't jump all over me for saying that love is more than the internal emotions. I am as enthralled with them as anyone. But if I never act on those emotions they are of no benefit to my beloved. And can it possibly be love if I never do anything of benefit to my beloved? That's really my point here.

No one is jumping on you Yank. I merely disagree with your assertion that you have to do something to experience love. I have learned that quite the contrary is true.

 

[midwestyankee]

Again, I disagree with the assertion that love can only exist as an action responded to by another.

Take for an example the case of a mother who surrenders her child for adoption. Although the actual surrender is an act of love, she could very well have never seen her child. She may very well never again know anything about that child. Yet do you doubt that she will love that child deeply until the day she dies? The emotions she feels require no further action on her part, they are not infatuation, yet they will persist. She will feel love for that child forever.

Of course is an emotion. It's something one feels. But just because one doesn't pursue that emotion does not remove it from existence.

And because it is an internal experience it is self-centered by default. But by your definition, "loving" someone is equally as self-centered. By the act of exhibiting loving actions toward another we are fulfilling needs within ourself to show that person our love, or to be loved in return.

If I did not say it clearly before, let me try again. Love of another must involve both lives. Love of another cannot exist solely within one person without some involvement in the other's life. The mother of whom you wrote has played a vital role in her baby's life. She has known that baby intimately. She has nourished and cared for that baby. Yes, those are mostly biological functions, but there is a great deal of intention involved during that time as well.

Now, as for the act of exhibiting loving actions fulfilling our own needs, I agree that this does happen. But this is not all that happens. If we act lovingly toward another, does not the other benefit in some way? And really, if we act solely for our own purposes, is it really an act of love or an act of selfishness?

 

[midwestyankee]

No one is jumping on you Yank. I merely disagree with your assertion that you have to do something to experience love. I have learned that quite the contrary is true.

I was hoping to preempt a pile-on.

As for experiencing love without doing anything, I'm not quite sure how that would work or what it would look like. I can imagine circumstances where doing nothing within the limited confines of a certain context would be a loving act, but I just don't see how experiencing emotions completely within myself that have no context in another's life amount to loving that other person.

Let's put this in simple grammatical terms: in your view, is love a transitive verb or an intransitive verb? In my view, it's a transitive verb. The object of my love is my beloved.

 

[GiveawayGirl]

Let's put this in simple grammatical terms: in your view, is love a transitive verb or an intransitive verb? In my view, it's a transitive verb. The object of my love is my beloved.

Not as a verb at all but as a noun, my friend.........

A verb in any form indicates action (or reaction). I am speaking of love in the sense that it is an entity almost. Without love as a noun, there is no catalyst for love as a verb.....you can't make yourself love someone. And in the form you use, it is a verb based on action or reaction to the orginal noun form.....you feel love and therefore react to it by loving.

 

[Sappholovers]

Digression

Let me take a quick break from defining love and add to the mix James Baldwin's definition of sensuality (from passage in The Fire Next Time, 1963):

"To be sensual, I think, is to respect and rejoice in the force of life, of life itself, and to be present in all that one does, from the effort of loving to the breaking of bread. It will be a great day for America, incidentally, when we begin to eat bread again, instead of the blasphemous and tasteless foam rubber that we have substituted for it."