Defining Love

[Shoshisexy]

My LadyLove, Damsel, is correct. There are times and places for sharing certain things. And sometime we don't make that decision, but others make it for us. Yes, that can make life difficut, but if the feelings/thoughts needed to be shared, then they would have been eventually. At least, they would have in what I consider to be a true relationship.

Like today. Driving with my G-ma, Mother, and Step, they brought up Swain and Damsel...they know that Swain is with each of us and my Mom knows the FULL truth. But when my Step asked me what I was if Damsel is his gf...I said his other gf. And Mom piped up with me not putting up with it for long because of my jealousy. Which all three of us have discussed many times.

Eventually they will understand that when I say the three of us are together, I mean just that. But I wasn't going to push things right then. It was the wrong time.

 

[midwestyankee]

Well, Yankee.... I have to admit that I've gotten really good at fakin lots of things... at least I don't bring my friends down! I let my happiness for them show thru so it's not quite lying....

Laters...

Liza, our friends are our last defense against the cruelties of an absurd world. To let them down is to give up on ourselves. I am glad to hear that you have not done that.

 

[midwestyankee]

Damsel, Sky, and Shoshana, this question of keeping certain things to oneself hits me hard sometimes. It's easy to think that we are doing our beloved a favor by sparing her some hard fact about ourselves. It's easy to think that life will roll on more peaceably when we keep certain things to ourselves.

And often we are right when we do so.

And sometimes we are not.

I am not wise enough to know the consequences of keeping or revealing the truth at any time. But I do know that when I have kept things to myself because I feared they would harm my position with my beloved, I was usually wrong. Selfhishness, in this sense, rarely helps a relationship grow.

I wish I had a better answer to this problem but I don't. In the end, I think that we have to examine our motives for keeping things to ourselves. When our motive is to protect ourselves rather than to protect our beloved, then I think we should rethink our actions. When our motive is truly to protect our beloved, then that is a loving act.

At least I hope so.

 

[Wyldfire]

Damsel, Sky, and Shoshana, this question of keeping certain things to oneself hits me hard sometimes. It's easy to think that we are doing our beloved a favor by sparing her some hard fact about ourselves. It's easy to think that life will roll on more peaceably when we keep certain things to ourselves.

And often we are right when we do so.

And sometimes we are not.

I am not wise enough to know the consequences of keeping or revealing the truth at any time. But I do know that when I have kept things to myself because I feared they would harm my position with my beloved, I was usually wrong. Selfhishness, in this sense, rarely helps a relationship grow.

I wish I had a better answer to this problem but I don't. In the end, I think that we have to examine our motives for keeping things to ourselves. When our motive is to protect ourselves rather than to protect our beloved, then I think we should rethink our actions. When our motive is truly to protect our beloved, then that is a loving act.

At least I hope so.

MY, I think ya mighta kinda missed my point on tha.... I ain't sayin ya NEVER themm um..... Jus not at certain moments...... Pick th moment. Ya always gotta be totally honest wit yer Love or Loves. Jus gotta pick th times tha yer not likely ta cause hurt or MORE hurt wit somethin......... Pick th time an th right moment ta share th stuff tha might hurt th most if shared at an inappropriate time

 

[Wyldfire]

My LadyLove, Damsel, is correct. There are times and places for sharing certain things. And sometime we don't make that decision, but others make it for us. Yes, that can make life difficut, but if the feelings/thoughts needed to be shared, then they would have been eventually. At least, they would have in what I consider to be a true relationship.

Like today. Driving with my G-ma, Mother, and Step, they brought up Swain and Damsel...they know that Swain is with each of us and my Mom knows the FULL truth. But when my Step asked me what I was if Damsel is his gf...I said his other gf. And Mom piped up with me not putting up with it for long because of my jealousy. Which all three of us have discussed many times.

Eventually they will understand that when I say the three of us are together, I mean just that. But I wasn't going to push things right then. It was the wrong time.

He he he Wise Lady Bein disowned an thrown from a speedin car is definately th WRONG time ta share tha sorta thing

 

[midwestyankee]

MY, I think ya mighta kinda missed my point on tha....

It wouldn't be the first time that I missed someone's point - as anyone who knows me will attest.

 

[TantaLiza]

Liza, Everyone fakes things now an then even wit th ones they love..... Is a fact a life an a neccesity now an then ta keep th family happy an t'gether.... Complete an total honesty is needed but it ALWAYS has it's time an place..... Sometimes it's jus best ta "Fake" somethin at th moment an then later ya go backm an honestly work thru it

I know I know........ Dam, shut up yer bein contrary...... Makin people confused

Totally agree, Damsel.... learned to keep my mouth shut a long damn time ago!! Still have a tendency to be too honest in some areas tho...

Shoot... you didn't cornfuse me!!

 

[TantaLiza]

TantaLiza ...

I trust you don't mind my saying that when I read your words about faking I could't help but think of that quip ... that women may be known to fake orgasms but it's men who are known to fake entire relationships.
Yea, and I take no pride in that generalized truth hidden in the humor. Yes, it been many many years now but I have faked a few relationships.

But Liza ... I do hope that within your circle of close friends there are those who are willing to be with you in your sadness as well as happiness. I know for me it's powerful medicine to expose my heaviness to a trusted friend who is not going to hide from it or assume a responsibility to make it go away.

There is such a simple powerful gift to share a heaviness with a trusted friend who is willing just to honor what is going on. And this is often just what is needed to reconnect with that deep joy within.

To the wonder of your journey, dear woman,


Sky

Sky...

I do have 3 very close friends... a couple of them live an hour plus away from me and I don't get to see them as often as I'd like but I always know they're there if I need to pull a LD phone session!! My other special friend is like my sis... she's almost me reincarnate. lol She's younger but we seem to think so much alike that we read each other's thoughts... even catch us dressing very similar without planning or talkin to each other!! Pretty wild actually!!

Each one of these special women know me on different levels... to be honest tho, nobody knows me all the way. Guess that's just my defense mechanism.... I share more happiness with them than I do my sorrows. When my brother died back in Nov, they were all very supportive and I appreciated them more than they could ever know!!

One day, I'll be able to totally open up... til then, I tend to live vicariously thru them. Go figure... hope that makes a bit of sense.

*lurkin about lookin for the next topic to ponder...*

 

[TantaLiza]

Liza, our friends are our last defense against the cruelties of an absurd world. To let them down is to give up on ourselves. I am glad to hear that you have not done that.

I can honestly say that NONE of my friends doubt how much they mean to me... I'm always showing ways that I care!! I'd move heaven and earth if they needed me!!!

Yankee

 

[Cathleen]

Hi Liza....a new topic to ponder huh??

Well these recent posts have me wondering (again, I never stop (gratefully)) about "you", "me", how to be ourselves in all manners of life. Long ago I read books authored by Leo Buscaglia, a favorite of mine, he was so full of life, so exuberant with all his did in life! He authored books about love, personhood, being ourselves. It was his lifes work I believe, to get us to be us. No more, no less.

I think it can be one of the hardest battles in life. Just being me. I think I do it each day, and to some degree I do. But I know there are those wall, those boundaries, that fly up and smack me in the heart. Therefore making it all that more difficult to be authentic, without fear. I know fear exists, but I do not think it is supposed to exist in love.

When thinking of love, I tend to attach something. You will love me if I......, I wil love you if you..... and so on. Unconditional love is rare, even in the parent - child relationship, I feel it. It is sad to feel I need to be or do, to receive love from a parent. But that was my childhood. This is today.

So my battle continues, and will for the rest of my life, to be me. Just me. All my potential used each day, all the love I have, given each day....both are limitless I believe. Each day is new, in fact each moment is, corney I know, but if I need a "do over" I get it, its a new moment!!

I found this in Buscaglia's book Living, Loving and Learning :

Starting each day I shall remember to communicate my joy as well as my despair so that we can know each other better. Starting each day I shall remind myself to really listen to you and to try to hear your point of view, and discover the least threatening way of giving you mine, remembering that we're both growing and changing in a hundred different ways. Starting each day Ishall remind myself that I am a human being and not demand perfection of you until I am perfect. (me:so you're all safe there!) Starting each day I shall strive to be more aware of the beautiful things in our world. Starting each day I shall remind myself to reach out and touch you gently, with my fingers. Because I don't want to miss feeling you. Starting each day I shall dedicate myself again to the process of being a lover, and then see what happens.

He goes on to say that while there is ugliness in the world, pain and hurt, there is so much beauty all around us. That if one were to sum up all there is in love, that word would be life. All aspect of love are in life. So live, don't miss out.

So much easier said then done!! But worth the shot!!!

Cate

 

[TantaLiza]

Cate....

Makes plenty of sense to me... living life is sometimes a daily struggle that seems endless!! The good thing... every now and again, something happens to remind you how worth the whole process it is!!!

For instance, no matter how many times I go off at my daughter for not respecting my wishes, whenever she gives me a hug and tells me she loves me, it makes it easier to try again... Of course, it don't happen right after I holler but eventually it does... lol

Just as I go on meeting new people, online and RL, my faith in humanity is tested by each and every one....

Good thoughts and wishes being sent to all...

~A

 

[midwestyankee]

Liza,

I'd much rather know someone who is a shade too honest than a shade too concealing - and I'm sure that's true of most of us.

I think I hear you clearly when you tell how difficult it is to share sorrows. Let me share this with you: I consider it an act of grace when someone trusts me enough to share a sorrow. I don't share enough of them myself, but I'm learning to do this in part because I finally saw that concealing my sorrows was somewhat dishonest. I am who I am and my sorrows are a part of me. They give my happiness a sturdy place from which to leap.

 

[midwestyankee]

Cate,

Once again you bring us a worthy gift. The struggle to give unconditional love is so very human. Some seem to have a gift for it; they may be angels on earth.

To me, unconditional love has been as elusive as Plato's idos, the Ideal which exists but which can only be approached and never achieved. But it's out there, it's a possibility. Just rare.

So very rare.

 

[Cathleen]

Cate,

Once again you bring us a worthy gift. The struggle to give unconditional love is so very human. Some seem to have a gift for it; they may be angels on earth.

To me, unconditional love has been as elusive as Plato's idos, the Ideal which exists but which can only be approached and never achieved. But it's out there, it's a possibility. Just rare.

So very rare.

Thanks MWY....thats nice of you to say....although I only found the words.

I agree, unconditional love is rare. I truly wonder if it can exist in this world, and if so, where. There always seems to be some kind of attachment to love. Even the purist of love. I hope I get to see it someday, if not within me, then to see it in another.

 

[midwestyankee]

Thanks MWY....thats nice of you to say....although I only found the words.

I agree, unconditional love is rare. I truly wonder if it can exist in this world, and if so, where. There always seems to be some kind of attachment to love. Even the purist of love. I hope I get to see it someday, if not within me, then to see it in another.

Even better: to know that you are the recipient of unconditional love and to learn how to give it. That, it seems to me, is part of the human quest for perfection.

 

[redrider4u]

Thanks MWY....thats nice of you to say....although I only found the words.

I agree, unconditional love is rare. I truly wonder if it can exist in this world, and if so, where. There always seems to be some kind of attachment to love. Even the purist of love. I hope I get to see it someday, if not within me, then to see it in another.

ah, but Cate, uncontitional love means totally accepting your lover for what she is.............ignoring human frailties.....just accepting her totally. You love her and cherish her daily as she is, cause she is the center of of your adoration.

 

[Cathleen]

ah, but Cate, uncontitional love means totally accepting your lover for what she is.............ignoring human frailties.....just accepting her totally. You love her and cherish her daily as she is, cause she is the center of of your adoration.

Yes, I understand, but can that really exist? Can we truly let go of past hurts or pains or injustices? I do think it is possible, but I think as humans, we are so imperfect that it becomes a conditional love. Love in general, not just partnership love.

 

[redrider4u]

Yes, I understand, but can that really exist? Can we truly let go of past hurts or pains or injustices? I do think it is possible, but I think as humans, we are so imperfect that it becomes a conditional love. Love in general, not just partnership love.

um.............what you are describing is forgiveness. It is hard to forgive someone else.......but extremely difficult to forgive yourself. We both know that. It takes time.........and love.......truly.

 

[Cathleen]

um.............what you are describing is forgiveness. It is hard to forgive someone else.......but extremely difficult to forgive yourself. We both know that. It takes time.........and love.......truly.

Forgiveness is part of love, yes. But loving unconditionally to me is different. Am I not seeing something here? Love is just so complex. Forgiveness is a gift to oneself, and perhaps that can be translated to those we love in our actions but I am wondering if unconditional love holds true to that concept. We all must make that decision for ourselves I suppose, but loving unconditionally seems terribly difficult and be human at the same time. I just don't know! Sad to say.

 

[TantaLiza]

Alas, something more to ponder over the day....

Have a loving day, ya'll....

 

[SouthSkyEyes]

Originally posted by Cathleen
...
Forgiveness is a gift to oneself, and perhaps that can be translated to those we love in our actions but I am wondering if unconditional love holds true to that concept.
...

Cathleen ...

All these recent posts stired up my head leaving me thinking ... how do we come to believe we deserve to be loved unconditionally? I think of a newborn child ... surely this soul deserves unconditional love and by many ways of believing it's soul came forth from unconditional love.

Alas, I learned over time, perhaps like everyone else, that I don't REALLY deserve to be loved in such a way. And I know my purest love for my cherished ones is invariably "tainted" by some meaure in my mere mortal mind and certainly by my falling short as I have and surely will.

But I've come to believe unconditional love is something worth reaching for in my life even though I doubt I'll never reach such a utopia.

I've told my wife and daughters that my life's dearest dream is to live my life so that in their final breath they will know they deserved to be loved unconditionally.

Oh, how I wish I felt completely deserving to be loved this way.

Tearfully,

Sky

 

[Cathleen]

Hi Sky,


That was a wonderful post.... I am not all together sure that you are not loved unconditionally. I agree we need to strive to love others unconditionally, but just as important in life, is to be able to feel love, whether unconditional or not. I can not say that there is not someone who loves me as I am, I do not know, but it could be possible. Sky, your family would be the ones from where you would seek this answer.

My gut tells me that my mother loved me unconditionally. I do not have that feeling at all from my father, but that is another whole can of worms. Within my family of origin, I do not feel unloved by any stretch of the imagination, but know that the past interfers with us loving each other without recalling the memories.

For me, it is those memories that block me from loving others as well as I could perhaps. But I am wondering now, most of us know that we are imperfect and accept that, so given this, wouldn't it be possible to perhaps redefine unconditional love as something more attainable. Geesh, this is hard. I guess what I am trying to get to , is since we are all flawed human beings, then maybe the "goal" of unconditional love needs to be adjusted somewhat.

I have no answers, just question after question!

Cate

 

[Party Girl]

I just got back from my weekend - thanks for the safe-trip wishes, Liza - I just saw 'em.

Scanned very briefly over the posts since I left ... I'll do so again in greater depth when I've got time to sit and ponder. My hair drying time just doesn't cut it for concentration. It's amazing to find so many deeply intellectual people in one place able to have discussions without attacking the beliefs of others. Rarer than one might think.

And look at all this flattery - MWY, Cate, y'all are going to make me blush every time you post about me, aren't you? *grin* I take pride in being the blonde "anti-blonde" so to speak. I kid, I kid ... but honestly, thanks for the compliments.

Okay.

I've been looking through some of my Phil. texts and I've found some things I thought you all might like, but as I mentioned, I'm a bit pressed for time - I hope you'll take a look when I post later, though.

I know I'm scattered right now!

Have a good night, all of you.

 

[Cathleen]

I just got back from my weekend - thanks for the safe-trip wishes, Liza - I just saw 'em.

Scanned very briefly over the posts since I left ... I'll do so again in greater depth when I've got time to sit and ponder. My hair drying time just doesn't cut it for concentration. It's amazing to find so many deeply intellectual people in one place able to have discussions without attacking the beliefs of others. Rarer than one might think.

And look at all this flattery - MWY, Cate, y'all are going to make me blush every time you post about me, aren't you? *grin* I take pride in being the blonde "anti-blonde" so to speak. I kid, I kid ... but honestly, thanks for the compliments.

Okay.

I've been looking through some of my Phil. texts and I've found some things I thought you all might like, but as I mentioned, I'm a bit pressed for time - I hope you'll take a look when I post later, though.

I know I'm scattered right now!

Have a good night, all of you.

Welcome back...glad your journey was safe Maggie.... looking forward to your posts!

 

[midwestyankee]

Sky, and ladies I just dropped by on a quickie visit and found more here to read than my time permitted.

I see some things here that merit some thought. I'll do that quite soon and respond when I can.

It's always intriguing around here, isn't it?