Define what a 'real writer' is to you.

[Stella_Omega]

Hm ... why must we qualify between amateur and professional writers?

Because there needs to be a qualification there. You deserve the recognition due to your professional status, and at the same time, no one can say that an unpaid writer isn't writing.

We certainly don't do the same for amateur and professional brain surgeons. You make good points, though, babe.

We certainly do the same for professional versus amateur anything else-- portrait painters, ice skaters, car mechanics, semptresses.

I've never heard of an amateur brain surgeon, except as hyperbole, have you?

 

[oggbashan]

But...

We need definitions of "real writing".

I have earned money by writing boring technical books, pamphlets, instruction manuals and reports.

I have acquired money for my town by writing bids to various funding bodies. So far I have helped raise more than ten million pounds. My latest attempt is for another one and a half million.

I have been paid one hundred Australian dollars for a story for an Australian Lads' magazine, and I've won some US dollars on Lit.

I don't consider myself a professional writer of fiction. However very few fiction writers earn enough from their writing to support themselves on their writing. I know two local authors who have several books of fiction in print but their combined annual earnings from writing would be exceeded by the yearly pay of a student working one shift a week at McDonalds.

Writing fiction is a poor way to make a living and usually pays far less per hour's work than sweeping the streets. The few who can earn enough to live on are vastly outnumbered by the part-time writers.

Og

 

[neonlyte]

2 cents.

There is perspective in the discussion prevalent to all art forms, intriguing.

Prior to the commercialization of 'books' and the ability to profit from writing, would a writer have denied their craft? Don't answer

What kind of writer am I? No idea. I aspire to be published and call myself a 'writer' because I spend more time writing than doing any other thing. Whether my output is acceptable, in sense of my being perceived by others as a writer, is to a small degree immaterial. I'd like recognition, like the next person, but it is not critical to performing the craft of writing. I'm still looking for where I put the 'sell myself hat', hence the STORY site.

As a 'writer', I live in a great time. Getting my output read has never been easier. Imagine being a writer any time before the last twenty years. The Great Writers, littered by name through this thread, succeeded despite the ease we enjoy to communicate. We're bound by the perception of success often overlooking that process can be as rewarding as product.

The one thing I do know is I should have found this path many years ago.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Did Leo Tolstoy write anything before he wrote WAR & PEACE? I dont think so.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

OGG

Why do we care who is and isnt a 'writer' ?

I'm reminded of all the charlatans who've come to town with bogus credentials and directed large agencies until they were found out.

 

[oggbashan]

OGG

Why do we care who is and isnt a 'writer' ?

Do we care?

If we are discussing who is, or was, a writer then we need to define the term.

Many classic authors did not earn their living by writing.

Very few published authors can live on their earnings from writing.

Og

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

A real writer is someone who doesn't spend a lot of time talking about the fact that they're a real writer.

 

[Stella_Omega]

A real writer is someone who doesn't spend a lot of time talking about the fact that they're a real writer.

Hah, with those egos? Not a chance!

 

[ABSTRUSE]

So, did we cover it all?

 

[CharleyH]

So, did we cover it all?

I don't know. I am all for writing and encouraging people to write. However, as Liar mentioned, anyone can write something and call themselves a writer. I suppose to address Og and your initial question, a "real" writer (though I must say I don't like the term 'real') is one who can carve out a living of some sort through writing.

I must admit that as a professional (non-fiction) writer in the 21st Century, I do get a bit irked (not enough to make a difference maybe) when someone calls themselves a writer and yet when I ask what they have published or where they write - they merely say on a website, usually a free forum. I have worked hard to be where I am as a writer. Shang mentioned freelance writing - and let me tell you that writing for a living is not easy. Freelancing is especially difficult because 90 percent of your time is spent getting the job. It may not seem much to some, but I have worked hard for the title of "writer". I intend to work even harder for the title of "author".

When it comes to the arts, it's easy for people to say 'I'm a writer', painter, sculptor, photographer, or artist for anyone who does it as a past time. Not so in other "real" professions like anthology, architecture, dentistry or politics.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Unless someone died and left you in charge, you dont get to define who is and who aint a writer.

A great many pitiful people get by with their credentials; that is, they arent judged on what they do, theyre judged by their occupational license.

 

[oggbashan]

...

I must admit that as a professional (non-fiction) writer in the 21st Century, I do get a bit irked (not enough to make a difference maybe) when someone calls themselves a writer and yet when I ask what they have published or where they write - they merely say on a website, usually a free forum. I have worked hard to be where I am as a writer...

I and a now-deceased friend found real problems with creative writing teachers. Both of us have extensive lists of non-fiction publications. Mine covers two A4 pages just listing the titles. Her publications were an even longer list and she wrote monthly articles for three or four profession-based magazines. When joining separate creative writing courses both of us suffered hostility from the tutors because we were "published" authors with more publications than the tutors. We wanted to learn and practise creative writing which is very different from writing from our professional expertise. For both of us the result was that we had to abandon the classes because of the tutors' attitude. Eventually we found tutors who could help us.

Now I can say I have been published and paid for work as a creative writer if only in an Australian Lads' magazine and in an anthology of competition winners. My creative writing "earnings" are unlikely to worry the taxman...

Og

PS. I also experienced problems trying to improve my professional qualifications. I started work after taking a post-graduate examination so my employer wouldn't let me have facilities for a professional graduate course even though it was in a different discipline. Then I tried to enrol for an MBA. The university wouldn't let me join because I was already a practising senior manager. They did ask me to act as a tutor some of their MBA students... They were prepared to award me an MBA on "life-experience" but I changed career again...

 

[shereads]

Traditionally, painters who lack the credibility they deserve have been able to give their reputations a huge boost by dying in poverty.

Sadly, freelance writers aren't allowed that luxury. Dying does nothing to raise the market price of our work - and it makes getting assignments that much more difficult.

 

[CharleyH]

Unless someone died and left you in charge, you dont get to define who is and who aint a writer.

A great many pitiful people get by with their credentials; that is, they arent judged on what they do, theyre judged by their occupational license.

No offence my love, but I wish you had something to write.

 

[CharleyH]

I and a now-deceased friend found real problems with creative writing teachers. Both of us have extensive lists of non-fiction publications. Mine covers two A4 pages just listing the titles. Her publications were an even longer list and she wrote monthly articles for three or four profession-based magazines. When joining separate creative writing courses both of us suffered hostility from the tutors because we were "published" authors with more publications than the tutors. We wanted to learn and practise creative writing which is very different from writing from our professional expertise. For both of us the result was that we had to abandon the classes because of the tutors' attitude. Eventually we found tutors who could help us.

Now I can say I have been published and paid for work as a creative writer if only in an Australian Lads' magazine and in an anthology of competition winners. My creative writing "earnings" are unlikely to worry the taxman...

Og

PS. I also experienced problems trying to improve my professional qualifications. I started work after taking a post-graduate examination so my employer wouldn't let me have facilities for a professional graduate course even though it was in a different discipline. Then I tried to enrol for an MBA. The university wouldn't let me join because I was already a practising senior manager. They did ask me to act as a tutor some of their MBA students... They were prepared to award me an MBA on "life-experience" but I changed career again...

Thank you, Og.

 

[elsol]

Oh hell... why don't we just go all out!

To me, if they're not teaching you n a classrom... you're not a real writer.

Shakespeare -- real writer.
Hemingway -- real writer.
The rest -- not even close. (Hell, even Stephen King gets taught in classes... so does Heinlein and Tolkien.)

Those of you making a living on it... you're lucky enough that your hobby gets you a paycheck--kinda like professional athletes who get paid to play a game. Good for them!

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

I've thought about this and have come to a simple answer -

A real writer is one that the readers want to read. There is no difference between a schlock hack and a Hemmingway. It has to do only with satisfying the consumer.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I don't know. I am all for writing and encouraging people to write. However, as Liar mentioned, anyone can write something and call themselves a writer. I suppose to address Og and your initial question, a "real" writer (though I must say I don't like the term 'real') is one who can carve out a living of some sort through writing.

I must admit that as a professional (non-fiction) writer in the 21st Century, I do get a bit irked (not enough to make a difference maybe) when someone calls themselves a writer and yet when I ask what they have published or where they write - they merely say on a website, usually a free forum. I have worked hard to be where I am as a writer. Shang mentioned freelance writing - and let me tell you that writing for a living is not easy. Freelancing is especially difficult because 90 percent of your time is spent getting the job. It may not seem much to some, but I have worked hard for the title of "writer". I intend to work even harder for the title of "author".

When it comes to the arts, it's easy for people to say 'I'm a writer', painter, sculptor, photographer, or artist for anyone who does it as a past time. Not so in other "real" professions like anthology, architecture, dentistry or politics.

It's the modifier "Professional" that you are searching for, my darling.

 

[CharleyH]

Traditionally, painters who lack the credibility they deserve have been able to give their reputations a huge boost by dying in poverty.

Sadly, freelance writers aren't allowed that luxury. Dying does nothing to raise the market price of our work - and it makes getting assignments that much more difficult.

ROFLOL - As Always - you are too right for comfort, Sher. lol

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Charley

I get paid to write. I've been writing for an income since 1986. Why, I wrote 5 letters today in maybe 30 minutes, and made $125. I write silly reports for $150 each, and a few earn $300 a pop.

But so what?

There are much better writers than me who make nothing. Most fiction writers make nothing even when theyre published.

 

[CharleyH]

It's the modifier "Professional" that you are searching for, my darling.

I was just about to post to you, too, but this post trumps it. Yes. Yes it is. lol Stell.

 

[xssve]

Easy enough: a writer writes - if you don't write, you're not a writer, if you write, you're a writer.

The only real debate here is between what is a good writer and what is a not as good writer.

And we are talking fiction and nonfiction here, just to make the distinction, i.e., as opposed to technical writing, correspondence, etc.

In other words, taken to mean writing for a mass audience in the artistic or educational sense, i.e., historical non fiction, etc.

It can be a bit vague I suppose, is a writer of textbooks a writer? I'm thinking the distinction here is one of whether or not the writer is injecting his/her personality into the work or not, which historians do, whereas writers of textbooks, not so much.

Personality and individual imagination - which applies to some correspondence of course, but this is not typically designed to appeal to a mass audience, and therefore, while still writing, it's catagorized differently, and correspondence compilations are sort of on the fence with regards to being a distinctive genre, and not considered "writing" in the colloquial sense, even if they are writing in the broadest sense.

This would depend on interpretation to some extent, i.e., you can call it writing if you want, and probobly won't get too much in the way of argument - I don't imagine it's a problem that keeps too many critics up at night - it is what it is, and you're basically back to whether it's interesting writing or not.

 

[CharleyH]

Charley

I get paid to write. I've been writing for an income since 1986. Why, I wrote 5 letters today in maybe 30 minutes, and made $125. I write silly reports for $150 each, and a few earn $300 a pop.

But so what?

There are much better writers than me who make nothing. Most fiction writers make nothing even when theyre published.

JamesB. Thank you for your kind response.

 

[shereads]

JamesB. Thank you for your kind response.

Now that's creative.

 

[shereads]

Anybody can get paid to write; maybe not a lot, and maybe not often, but paid nevertheless.

Getting paid to stop writing requires real genius.