Dealing With Endometriosis

[Red_Kiss]

I have endometriosis and have gone through all the hormonal treatments and have had surgery twice. I'm now at the point where I can't tolerate the pill and because I'd like to be pregnant in the next few years, I don't want to go back to the intense treatments such as Lupron. I don't have insurance, so another round of surgery isn't an option. The pain is impacting my life in a very negative way and I feel like mainstream medicine doesn't have much to offer me. I'm at the end of my rope. (And it's a short one!)

I'm wondering if anyone here has tried a natural approach to coping with her symptoms such as seeing a naturopathic physician, using supplements, different diet, or other methods. What has worked for you? What really hasn't worked for you? Do you have any tips or advice?

I'm also curious to know if other women here with this disease deal with pain during sex or even pain after orgasming without penetration?

Any ideas are much appreciated.

 

[CuriousThroat2]

I have endometriosis
...
Any ideas are much appreciated.

Honest reply: don't look for answers on the sex site. Seriously, though, we're all great here, but you probably want a community where there's tons of other women going through the same thing you're going through.

My wife and I are trying to conceive, struggling with infertility. There's an awesome forum that's helped her a lot. Lots of information, supportive sisters, etc, etc:

http://babyandbump.momtastic.com/

Sorry if it's against Lit policy to post links to other sites, but this is something that might be a real help.

 

[SweetErika]

Curious, you're fine posting links to other sites as long as you're not trying to advertise them or gain from doing so.

Red_Kiss, as someone who deals with chronic pain on a daily basis, I sympathize with you. If you haven't gone the naturopathic route, that might be something to investigate. I'd let the N.D. know you're uninsured and [presumably] have budgetary constraints right up front, so they can work with you on the most cost-effective things you can try.

Secondly, I'm not sure where you live, but if it's legal in your area, I'd suggest investigating medical marijuana. I was never a pot user, and honestly, I don't care for the "high" associated with it at all. HOWEVER, about a year ago, I had menstrual cramps that no pain meds were helping, so I tried a bit of marijuana a friend had left at our house years ago, and it was an immense help. Through a little experimentation and A LOT of research, I've figured out that:
- I only need a tiny bit (too much, and I get anxious, which increases my pain!)
- it's the CBDs (not the THC, which produces the psychoactive effects/high) that help more than anything else
- my best bet is to make coconut cannabis oil (aka cannaoil) to get all of the CBDs and other pain-relieving, anti-inflammatory compounds out of the herb

In my opinion and experience, medical use is very different from recreational use. As I've found, the amount, methods used to extract the helpful compounds and mode of delivery are critical factors when seeking the pain relieving and healing properties of the plant.

Now I'm lucky I live in a state where both medical and personal use are legal. Although knowing what I now know about how well it relieves my pain, I'd probably risk it to some extent even if it wasn't legal. I'm not suggesting you do anything illegal, only that it might be something to experiment with if you're comfortable doing so and the risk isn't too great. If you're in a place that allows legal medical use, lots of Naturopathic MDs are open-minded (you can find sites and other resources with lists of practitioners who are willing to see if you qualify for a medical authorization).

I would have PM'd you the above, but I've found it so helpful that I'll speak up for anyone else out there who needs relief and is out of other options!

 

[Joanie01]

I have the solution for you.

Hey! I know I'm really late, but I'm sure I can still be useful to you and maybe others as well. I've had hormonal problems for years that forced me to do intensive research over the years. I know a lot about hormones, you can trust me on that. I'd like to confirm that traditional medicine doesn't have the answers when it comes to endometriosis. They treat symptoms and don't go to the root cause of all this. If you really want to get over this and feel well, you need to treat the cause. Not just try to mask the symptoms with some drugs. Plus, those drugs wouldn't help with the fertility issue.

What you need to know is that endometriosis is caused by a condition called "estrogen dominance". Most mainstream doctors aren't aware of that condition and will say it doesn't exist. Stupid, I know. But they want to sell drugs. If they would treat the cause of every condition, they would never sell as much. Anyway back to the topic, estrogen dominance is when you have an imbalance between your two main sex hormones, estrogens and progesterone. You have too much estrogen and not enough progesterone. It doesn't mean that you have high estrogens levels, you could even have low estrogens levels and still have estrogen dominance. The thing is, estrogen is a stimulatory hormone and progesterone is there to balance it's effects. If you don't have enough progesterone for what you have of estrogens, you get unpleasant symptoms.

To help you understand, let me give you some very helpful links on the subject. I suggest that you look at them in this order and check them all to understand better :

Endometriosis is caused by estrogen dominance : http://www.hotzehwc.com/en-US/Resou...alance-is-Key-to-Preventing-Endometriosi.aspx

Symptoms of estrogen dominance : http://www.hotzehwc.com/en-US/Resource-Center/Articles/Symptoms-of-Estrogen-Dominance.aspx

Short video on estrogen dominance : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRkLpq10_dg

Short video on progesterone : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zc84zjhywo&nofeather=True

So the treatment is very simple, it's bioidentical progesterone. It has to be bioidentical. Some doctors can tell you they can prescribe you progesterone when in fact it's a synthetic form of it, it's not the same thing at all. It actually has the opposite effect. If the doctor keeps saying it's the same thing, ask him/her if you can take it during pregnancy. If not, then it's not progesterone. And don't feel scared about it, bioidentical progesterone is the exact same thing that your ovaries produce. Your body won't even know that it comes from an external source. Progesterone is extremely safe, it's a pregnancy hormone after all. It's like the "calm" hormone. Bioidentical progesterone is sold in capsules, there's the brand Prometrium, but you need a prescription. Or, it's also sold OTC in a cream form. Here's a link :

Link to buy progesterone cream : http://www.vitacost.com/life-flo-progesta-care-4-oz

The treatment is simple, the only thing that's a little more complicated is to find how to dose it. If you find a doctor who can work on this with you, it could be more simple, but you don't have to. Here's a link in case you want to work on that with a good doctor who prescribes progesterone capsules :

http://www.bioidenticaldoctors.com/Doctors.html

These doctors (bioidentical doctors) are extremely good ones and you can count on them to truly resolve your problems, no matter what they are. I highly recommend them.

If you want to try the cream on your own, it needs to be applied to thin skin areas preferably (to be absorbed easily), like your inner arms, wrists, neck, chest, you can apply it on your breast, belly, inner thights. Pretty much anywhere, it's not dangerous, it's good for you. The rule is to rotate the application each time. Use it once daily, day 15 to 28 of your menstrual cycle. Which means starting the day following the day of your ovulation and ending the day before the first day of your period. Most doctors like to say to use it for two months, then take a two months break. Because you store some in your fatty tissues and it's not necessary to use it non-stop.

Women naturally produce between 20mg and 40mg of progesterone daily. You can start at a lower dose, some start at 10mg, but I wouldn't start at more than 20mg. If you don't use enough, your symptoms will still be the same and if you use too much, you could get symptoms after around two months. Symptoms like oily skin, oily scalp, some acne, fatigue and constipation. If you get some of these, stop the cream and the symptoms will be completely gone within two months. You can then start back on a lower dose. So that's why it's best to start on a lower dose.

I hope it doesn't seem too complicated because it's not. Personally, I felt the effect almost right away. I really felt better. Once you found your right dose, this supplement is simply a blessing. Very safe and very useful. Helps tons with fertility. Nothing is better than addressing the cause of your issue. And it's exactly what it does. Why would we want to do something else?

I sincerely hope it helps you. Best of luck honey. But I know you won't need any luck. With this treatment you should really start to see results. And if you still don't feel comfortable enough to try it on your own, just choose a doctor/center from the website above and get some more information. With a good doc you'll be back on track, no doubt.

You can PM me if you have other questions.

Joanie.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Most mainstream doctors aren't aware of that condition and will say it doesn't exist. Stupid, I know. But they want to sell drugs. If they would treat the cause of every condition, they would never sell as much.

I get kinda grouchy when alt-medicine advocates do this thing of characterising doctors as greed-motivated people who put profits ahead of patients, and don't acknowledge that "alternative medicine" is every bit as much of a for-profit business.

I know several MDs and all of them - without exception - are hard-working folk who care about their patients and do their utmost to choose an effective course of treatment. Incidentally, they get paid exactly the same regardless of whether they prescribe drugs or lifestyle change or something else, because patients don't buy drugs from their MD.

Pharmaceutical companies most certainly do want to sell drugs and they put a great deal of effort into promoting them, sometimes in deeply questionable circumstances where those drugs aren't a good option. But then they're not exactly the only ones with a profit motive; "alternative medicine" is a $34-billion/year industry just in the USA and it works hard to sell its own products. The bio-identical hormones mentioned here are a pharmaceutical product, made and marketed for profit just as surely as any other, and the alt-doctors who prescribe them will most certainly charge for their services.

In the end, the question to ask when looking at medical treatment is "what evidence do you have that this treatment works?"

 

[SweetErika]

I get kinda grouchy when alt-medicine advocates do this thing of characterising doctors as greed-motivated people who put profits ahead of patients, and don't acknowledge that "alternative medicine" is every bit as much of a for-profit business.

I know several MDs and all of them - without exception - are hard-working folk who care about their patients and do their utmost to choose an effective course of treatment. Incidentally, they get paid exactly the same regardless of whether they prescribe drugs or lifestyle change or something else, because patients don't buy drugs from their MD.

Pharmaceutical companies most certainly do want to sell drugs and they put a great deal of effort into promoting them, sometimes in deeply questionable circumstances where those drugs aren't a good option. But then they're not exactly the only ones with a profit motive; "alternative medicine" is a $34-billion/year industry just in the USA and it works hard to sell its own products. The bio-identical hormones mentioned here are a pharmaceutical product, made and marketed for profit just as surely as any other, and the alt-doctors who prescribe them will most certainly charge for their services.

In the end, the question to ask when looking at medical treatment is "what evidence do you have that this treatment works?"

Beautifully said, and exactly what I was thinking!

I'd even go as far to say that Naturopaths and the like are MORE likely to profit off of what they prescribe. Many of my family members and friends have spent a small fortune on alternative tests and treatments because those aren't covered by insurance or the N.D. doesn't deal with insurance companies at all. Alternative practitioners often carry natural supplements and treatments that they make a very nice profit from. My doctor takes a holistic approach and doesn't make a cent off of writing prescriptions or suggesting certain treatments. His office DOES carry certain types of supplements that are very expensive (and profitable, I'm sure) and private-pay health/nutrition counselling, although he never pushes them on patients. At most, he might say something like, "I'd suggest trying a natural endocrine-supporting formula. We carry a very good brand of that here, but any reputable brand/formula that has XYZ in it will work fine."

 

[SweetErika]

I get kinda grouchy when alt-medicine advocates do this thing of characterising doctors as greed-motivated people who put profits ahead of patients, and don't acknowledge that "alternative medicine" is every bit as much of a for-profit business.

I know several MDs and all of them - without exception - are hard-working folk who care about their patients and do their utmost to choose an effective course of treatment. Incidentally, they get paid exactly the same regardless of whether they prescribe drugs or lifestyle change or something else, because patients don't buy drugs from their MD.

Pharmaceutical companies most certainly do want to sell drugs and they put a great deal of effort into promoting them, sometimes in deeply questionable circumstances where those drugs aren't a good option. But then they're not exactly the only ones with a profit motive; "alternative medicine" is a $34-billion/year industry just in the USA and it works hard to sell its own products. The bio-identical hormones mentioned here are a pharmaceutical product, made and marketed for profit just as surely as any other, and the alt-doctors who prescribe them will most certainly charge for their services.

In the end, the question to ask when looking at medical treatment is "what evidence do you have that this treatment works?"

Beautifully said, and exactly what I was thinking!

I'd even go as far to say that Naturopaths and the like are MORE likely to profit off of what they prescribe. Many of my family members and friends have spent a small fortune on alternative tests and treatments because those aren't covered by insurance or the N.D. doesn't deal with insurance companies at all. Alternative practitioners often carry natural supplements and treatments that they make a very nice profit from. My doctor takes a holistic approach and doesn't make a cent off of writing prescriptions or suggesting certain treatments. His office DOES carry certain types of supplements that are very expensive (and profitable, I'm sure) and private-pay health/nutrition counselling, although he never pushes them on patients. At most, he might say something like, "I'd suggest trying a natural endocrine-supporting formula. We carry a very good brand of that here, but any reputable brand/formula that has XYZ in it will work fine."

 

[IrisAlthea]

I get kinda grouchy when alt-medicine advocates do this thing of characterising doctors as greed-motivated people who put profits ahead of patients, and don't acknowledge that "alternative medicine" is every bit as much of a for-profit business.

I know several MDs and all of them - without exception - are hard-working folk who care about their patients and do their utmost to choose an effective course of treatment. Incidentally, they get paid exactly the same regardless of whether they prescribe drugs or lifestyle change or something else, because patients don't buy drugs from their MD.

Pharmaceutical companies most certainly do want to sell drugs and they put a great deal of effort into promoting them, sometimes in deeply questionable circumstances where those drugs aren't a good option. But then they're not exactly the only ones with a profit motive; "alternative medicine" is a $34-billion/year industry just in the USA and it works hard to sell its own products. The bio-identical hormones mentioned here are a pharmaceutical product, made and marketed for profit just as surely as any other, and the alt-doctors who prescribe them will most certainly charge for their services.

In the end, the question to ask when looking at medical treatment is "what evidence do you have that this treatment works?"

This!

 

[simplegirl]

Bramblethorn, so well said! I work for doctors and they don't make a dime on prescriptions. Naturopaths often sell products directly and make a profit. I'm not knocking Naturopaths, I think there's call for both types of medicine.

As for endometriosis, I feel your pain. I have endometriosis from hell, and I won't bore you with everything it's putting me through even after hysterectomy and ovariectomy. Sadly, I don't have any advice to offer. Just commiseration. ((((hugs))) to you.

 

[blulilacgrl]

I too want to say that I know the pain you are dealing with. And yes I have pain after sex occasionally. It all depends on time of the month and ..um.. how vigorous the sex was.

To be honest, one thing I have found to be helpful in that situation is downing 3-4 ibuprofen (what I was told is prescription strength) when the pain first begins. I have found that the sooner I deal with, the faster it passes. I try not to do this too often as that is a fairly high dose.

Have you asked about any birth control pills? Or possibly an IUD? Just until you are really ready to try to conceive.

I admit that I have a number of issues, not just endometriosis, but being put on Mirena has helped a lot.

Good luck with everything!

 

[GiggLeGasm]

In response to Joanie's post:

you bring up a great retrospective timeline of hormone replacement therapy. It has certainly evolved significantly. thank you.

I would caution anyone with a diagnosed medical problem (that has become chronic and does not respond to traditional treatment) to progress under the watch of a capable care provider. I am a huge fan of "alternative" therapies - but they should not be seen as choices that do not potentially have negative impacts.

Red - without asking you to disclose information too personal, people are without medical insurance for a number of reasons. It would be worth investigating to see if there is a women's health center that could provide care for you.. even if it is not conveniently located. Other resources for financial assistance / medical care could include groups associated with religious/cultural providers. As an example, Jewish Family Services does a great deal in my area to help people with identified need. They provide services to people of all backgrounds and many of their services are free or have sliding scale fees.

Chronic illness can be so draining and really cause us to doubt ourselves/our bodies. Hang in there.

 

[Joanie01]

I never said that other types of medecine weren't profit businesses. Every business is there for profit, obviously. They're businesses. But most mainstream doctors will always recommend and only choose the most beneficial options for them, not for the patient.

I know several MDs and all of them - without exception - are hard-working folk who care about their patients and do their utmost to choose an effective course of treatment.

Are you sure about that? Do their patients really feel optimal in the end? I really doubt about that because very few doctors will open their minds to other options when traditional treatments aren't making the patient feel good enough. And if you know that many doctors like that, why didn't you recommend them? If you're that sure that they can solve the problem. So far I haven't heard you speak about a single solution for the endometriosis issue.

Incidentally, they get paid exactly the same regardless of whether they prescribe drugs or lifestyle change or something else, because patients don't buy drugs from their MD.

Patients don't buy drugs from their doctors, but doctors get paid by pharmaceutical companies to sell their products. In the end it sounds like the same thing, don't you think? When we see something like "#1 doctors recommended", I think we all get what it means. You can't deny those facts, doctors already admitted all of this anyway.

Plus, no matter how much they get paid for this, even if they weren't paid, the important is to make the patient feel better, optimal. And most of them would never consider options out of their comfort zone. They do what they learned from mainstream medicine and nothing more usually. Just the minimum. Don't take risks, don't get sued. They do this for themselves, not for the patients, again.

You know what I see around me? People who don't feel well. Nowadays the mainstream medicine is governed by the pharmaceutical companies. It's very unfortunate for us. Doctors are taught to give one drug per symptom, to make more money. How can you feel good when you never treat the cause of your symptoms? You end up simply trying to mask them and you get a bunch of side effects. Patients who aren't that sick may do fine, but if you really are, then maybe you'll experience the true colors of mainstream medicine. They give you something. You don't feel well? We'll try something else until there's no other drug left and then if you still don't feel good they'll say it's all in your head, you may be depressed or whatever they may find to say. This is what I see. Family, friends, internet, so many patients who are treated like this. Most doctors treat lab results. Once your labs are fine, they don't care if you are. And if you're not, you can go back home because you're the problem. How can a person make somebody else feel like this?

I had no problem with mainstream medicine before, until I got sick. Good doctors (who are open minded) are very rare. If those doctors were doing their job because helping others make them feel good, then they would act differently. Most of them obviously have other motives.

But then they're not exactly the only ones with a profit motive; "alternative medicine" is a $34-billion/year industry just in the USA and it works hard to sell its own products. The bio-identical hormones mentioned here are a pharmaceutical product, made and marketed for profit just as surely as any other, and the alt-doctors who prescribe them will most certainly charge for their services.

You're absolutely right, the smaller companies have to work extremely hard to sell their products. Because the pharmaceutical companies have control over many things, including the FDA. More money, more control on everything. It doesn't mean the products are any better or safer. They're constantly trying to eradicate the competition to make more money. And how much is Big Pharma expecting for 2014 already? Oh yeah, only a little more than 1 trillion...

I'd even go as far to say that Naturopaths and the like are MORE likely to profit off of what they prescribe. Many of my family members and friends have spent a small fortune on alternative tests and treatments because those aren't covered by insurance or the N.D. doesn't deal with insurance companies at all.

I'm sorry but, I don't see how I could agree with that. Natural products and services cost so much less than drugs and conventional doctors' services. If you think otherwise, then it's because your insurance company pays most of those. It may not seem that expensive because of that reason, but in reality mainstream medicine is by far the most expensive one. And the one that makes the most profit. It's the biggest one. Drugs are sold at extreme prices and cost virtually nothing to produce. They're produced in labs. For natural products it's a different story. Their production costs are much higher and their final prices much lower than drugs. And have you ever wondered why a certain number of natural clinics don't contract with insurance? Obviously not to gain more money because how would that possibly bring them more money? It's only making them lose patients. But they choose to do it anyway because the opposite would mean that the insurance company could dictate the type of treatment that they offer. If they want to keep full control over their practices, sometimes they need to make sacrifices. It's better than starting selling drugs and completely changing how they treat their patients. So in the end, I can't agree that natural medicine costs higher. It's evidently not the case.

In the end, the question to ask when looking at medical treatment is "what evidence do you have that this treatment works?"

What evidence? Patients. Thousands and thousands of patients who tried traditional treatments without success. After getting on bioidentical hormone replacement therapy, they were finally able to get their life back, literally. There's no better evidence than this. Seeing real life results.

You don't need to classify me as anything. I'm not trying to say to stay away from mainstream medicine. I'm simply saying that if anyone out there doesn't get relief from traditional medicine, then please don't give up. Keep searching and you'll find. You don't have to give up on yourself because your doctor did. Never do that. Don't ever let anybody make you feel like you're not worth it.

As you see, I had a bad experience. And it made me realize that there were plenty of people around me in the same situation, which is very sad. I made this post just to try to help someone, no bad motives. But if I look at you, what motivated you to make your post? You've simply been offended by something I mentioned. Do you realize that you're not helping anyone here with that? If I wouldn't have made that post, you wouldn't even have wrote anything here. I'll stop there, because I'm not here to fight. I didn't mean to offend anyone and I think it's pretty clear. I just don't want you to discourage people from trying other types of medicine. Thank you.

Joanie.

 

[fire_breeze]

I feel I have to point this out, but the health-care system is very different in the United States than it is in Australia, Canada, England, Ireland, Scotland or Wales as well as other nations. While more than half of the How-To regulars are American, a great percentage are from the above mentioned countries where doctors are not paid by pharmaceutical companies, where alternative medicine/lifestyle changes are routinely offered and where people do not necessarily go bankrupt from having a medical condition. Furthermore, I am not sure if the OP is American. I most certainly know that Bramblethorn is not.

No system is perfect, but they are very different. It is vitally important to keep all of this in mind when debating on the merits of conventional vs. alternative medicine. Also, one should keep in mind that double-blind studies tend to be the best indicator on whether or not a particular therapy (whether it is medicine, lifestyle changes, herbal remedies and so forth) works. Anecdotal evidence is rarely reliable.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I never said that other types of medecine weren't profit businesses. Every business is there for profit, obviously. They're businesses. But most mainstream doctors will always recommend and only choose the most beneficial options for them, not for the patient.

If you have hard evidence for that assertion, let's see it.

Are you sure about that? Do their patients really feel optimal in the end? I really doubt about that because very few doctors will open their minds to other options when traditional treatments aren't making the patient feel good enough.

Depends what you mean by "open-minded". From my experience with MDs, most would be happy to recommend any treatment that was supported by evidence for their patients' context. For example...

Conventional medicine uses aspirin as a painkiller and blood-thinner, derived from traditional folk remedies, because it works.

Conventional medicine uses leeches and maggots to assist with wound healing, because they work.

Conventional medicine uses fecal transplants to treat diseases like ulcerative colitis, because it works.

For my money, MDs who are willing to consider treating their patients with maggots or transfusing somebody else's poo up their bum can't be that closed-minded. Show them an "alternative" technique that works, show them hard evidence that it works, and they will be delighted to adopt it.

And if you know that many doctors like that, why didn't you recommend them?

#1: I don't post information here that would be likely to identify myself, friends, family, or colleagues. I don't feel any obligation to justify that position to you or anybody else.

#2: The OP specifically asked for recommendations on naturopathic options. It would've been distinctly rude and unhelpful for me to reply to that with recommendations for non-naturopathic MDs, don't you think?

If you're that sure that they can solve the problem. So far I haven't heard you speak about a single solution for the endometriosis issue.

Indeed I haven't.

To put it bluntly: endometriosis is a tricky condition and anybody who claims to have a sure cure is either deluded or fraudulent, quite possibly both.

There are conventional treatments that are helpful to some patients, but not to everybody. The OP made it clear that she'd already explored conventional options and wasn't asking about those, so why would I disrespect her wishes by bringing them up?

I never EVER said "they can solve the problem" and I'd appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth.

Patients don't buy drugs from their doctors, but doctors get paid by pharmaceutical companies to sell their products.

Let's unpack that sentence a bit.

Pharmaceutical companies do hire some MDs to help market their drugs. And, yes, that's highly problematic when that relationship isn't disclosed; the USA and Europe are now introducing laws to require disclosure.

But your original comments were in the context of the doctors who are prescribing treatment to patients, implying that their decisions would be influenced by a profit motive. It is illegal for those doctors to receive payment from pharmaceutical companies for prescribing, and has been for a very long time - at least since 1972 under US anti-kickback laws.

I'm sorry but, I don't see how I could agree with that. Natural products and services cost so much less than drugs and conventional doctors' services. If you think otherwise, then it's because your insurance company pays most of those.

Actually, I'm in .au where things work rather differently, but let's not get into that just now...

It may not seem that expensive because of that reason, but in reality mainstream medicine is by far the most expensive one. And the one that makes the most profit. It's the biggest one. Drugs are sold at extreme prices and cost virtually nothing to produce. They're produced in labs. For natural products it's a different story. Their production costs are much higher and their final prices much lower than drugs.

The "bioidentical hormones" you were discussing earlier are drugs. They are made in labs through the same sort of processes as other hormones used in medicine: you begin with components extracted from nature (in this case yams and soy) and then put them through a process of chemical synthesis to get 17β-estradiol, estrone, and estriol.

The word "natural" has several different and distinct meanings. Some alt-medicine products are "natural" in the sense that they come directly from a source in nature, be it plant seeds or rhino horn.

But in the case of bioidentical hormones, "natural" doesn't mean they come directly from a natural source; it only means they have the same chemical structure as the hormones generated by your own body. (Although by my understanding it's still not confirmed that hormones marketed as "bioidentical" really ARE bioidentical.)

What evidence? Patients. Thousands and thousands of patients who tried traditional treatments without success. After getting on bioidentical hormone replacement therapy, they were finally able to get their life back, literally. There's no better evidence than this.

I have no doubt there are many endo patients who got better after using bioidentical hormones. But there are several different ways to interpret that outcome, e.g.:

#1: Bioidentical treatment is better than conventional treatment; these people got better because they shifted to an alternative therapy.

#2: Bioidentical treatment is no more effective than conventional treatment; those people would have seen the same improvement if only they'd stuck with conventional hormone therapy a bit longer.

#3: The sort of people who are willing and able to seek out bioidentical treatment tend to have other factors in their life that improve their chances of recovery.

#4: Bioidentical treatment is less effective than conventional treatment, but sometimes endo clears up of its own accord and alt-medicine gets the credit.

Fortunately there's an effective way to distinguish between those possibilities: double-blind randomised control trials. Have there been any RCTs done on bioidentical hormone therapy?

As you see, I had a bad experience. And it made me realize that there were plenty of people around me in the same situation, which is very sad. I made this post just to try to help someone, no bad motives. But if I look at you, what motivated you to make your post?

The bit where you accused an entire profession of being incompetent and corrupt.

I have no doubt that your only intention in this thread was to help the OP, but one of the things about medicine - and so much in life - is that it's not just about intentions.

Conventional medicine has its failings; ask any MD and they'll give you a long list of things that are wrong with it. But to characterise the entire profession the way you did is a matter of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Many people have died - or, worse, inadvertently killed their own children - because they bought into that prejudice.

You've simply been offended by something I mentioned. Do you realize that you're not helping anyone here with that? If I wouldn't have made that post, you wouldn't even have wrote anything here. I'll stop there, because I'm not here to fight. I didn't mean to offend anyone and I think it's pretty clear. I just don't want you to discourage people from trying other types of medicine. Thank you.

Again: please do not put words in my mouth.

Nowhere in this thread have I attempted to discourage people from trying other types of medicine. As far as I can tell, only one person in this thread has attempted to disparage an entire field of medicine, and it ain't me.

 

[GiggLeGasm]

Doctors are taught to give one drug per symptom, to make more money.

This is false

Natural products and services cost so much less than drugs and conventional doctors' services. If you think otherwise, then it's because your insurance company pays most of those. It may not seem that expensive because of that reason, but in reality mainstream medicine is by far the most expensive one. And the one that makes the most profit. It's the biggest one. Drugs are sold at extreme prices and cost virtually nothing to produce. They're produced in labs. For natural products it's a different story. Their production costs are much higher and their final prices much lower than drugs. And have you ever wondered why a certain number of natural clinics don't contract with insurance? Obviously not to gain more money because how would that possibly bring them more money? It's only making them lose patients. But they choose to do it anyway because the opposite would mean that the insurance company could dictate the type of treatment that they offer. If they want to keep full control over their practices, sometimes they need to make sacrifices. It's better than starting selling drugs and completely changing how they treat their patients. So in the end, I can't agree that natural medicine costs higher. It's evidently not the case.

I have to say that I'm sorry you have had this experience because it seems as though you are really hurting. Still.. there are a few things here that warrant more discussion. First, these generalized statements can not be argued across the board. Some treatments cost more than others. It doesn't always matter where they come from. I can get you a commercial drug for a migraine headache or a homeopathic medication. Each is over the counter and can be purchased without a prescription. The Advil Migraine will cost about 20 cents each. The Migra-Eeze homeopathic cure will cost about 50 cents each. These aren't the kind of products to cure rare diseases.. but the argument should be discussed in terms of mainstream usage if you want to make such blanket statements. And you're right - Sometimes it's just a business decision.. but what service industry isn't faced with that reality?

I think the push should be to encourage a more accepting view of "alternative" medicine. The difficulty sometimes exists because of an inability to prove a relationship between A and B - and if you can't prove it, science can't accept it - and if science can't accept it, it can't be argued as "effective." Certainly there have been anecdotal cures that have been allowed into the halls of medicine. For the most part, however, that is not the case. My props go to the institutions willing to research the old wives tales to learn why they work. In that way, we can possibly close some gaps.

 

[simplegirl]

let's not forget that "natural" can be a relative term. No plant grows pills or tinctures, which is the form most medicines naturopathic or otherwise are consumed. But this should be a discussion for another thread. The OP was asking specifically about endometriosis treatments. It's a very tricky condition. Endometrial tissue grows just about anywhere and from *seemingly* nothing. Alot just isn't understood about the condition and how it propagates itself in the body. Endometriosis has been found in brains, noses, lungs, etc... One school of thought is that it may spread through the lymphatic system. In Canada, docs told me that it seemed more prevalent in some areas of the country than others. No one has yet to figure out what accounts for that or even how the tissue winds up outside the uterus to begin with. Genetics?? diet?

 

[Joanie01]

If you have hard evidence for that assertion, let's see it.



Depends what you mean by "open-minded". From my experience with MDs, most would be happy to recommend any treatment that was supported by evidence for their patients' context. For example...

Conventional medicine uses aspirin as a painkiller and blood-thinner, derived from traditional folk remedies, because it works.

Conventional medicine uses leeches and maggots to assist with wound healing, because they work.

Conventional medicine uses fecal transplants to treat diseases like ulcerative colitis, because it works.

For my money, MDs who are willing to consider treating their patients with maggots or transfusing somebody else's poo up their bum can't be that closed-minded. Show them an "alternative" technique that works, show them hard evidence that it works, and they will be delighted to adopt it.



#1: I don't post information here that would be likely to identify myself, friends, family, or colleagues. I don't feel any obligation to justify that position to you or anybody else.

#2: The OP specifically asked for recommendations on naturopathic options. It would've been distinctly rude and unhelpful for me to reply to that with recommendations for non-naturopathic MDs, don't you think?



Indeed I haven't.

To put it bluntly: endometriosis is a tricky condition and anybody who claims to have a sure cure is either deluded or fraudulent, quite possibly both.

There are conventional treatments that are helpful to some patients, but not to everybody. The OP made it clear that she'd already explored conventional options and wasn't asking about those, so why would I disrespect her wishes by bringing them up?

I never EVER said "they can solve the problem" and I'd appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth.



Let's unpack that sentence a bit.

Pharmaceutical companies do hire some MDs to help market their drugs. And, yes, that's highly problematic when that relationship isn't disclosed; the USA and Europe are now introducing laws to require disclosure.

But your original comments were in the context of the doctors who are prescribing treatment to patients, implying that their decisions would be influenced by a profit motive. It is illegal for those doctors to receive payment from pharmaceutical companies for prescribing, and has been for a very long time - at least since 1972 under US anti-kickback laws.



Actually, I'm in .au where things work rather differently, but let's not get into that just now...



The "bioidentical hormones" you were discussing earlier are drugs. They are made in labs through the same sort of processes as other hormones used in medicine: you begin with components extracted from nature (in this case yams and soy) and then put them through a process of chemical synthesis to get 17β-estradiol, estrone, and estriol.

The word "natural" has several different and distinct meanings. Some alt-medicine products are "natural" in the sense that they come directly from a source in nature, be it plant seeds or rhino horn.

But in the case of bioidentical hormones, "natural" doesn't mean they come directly from a natural source; it only means they have the same chemical structure as the hormones generated by your own body. (Although by my understanding it's still not confirmed that hormones marketed as "bioidentical" really ARE bioidentical.)



I have no doubt there are many endo patients who got better after using bioidentical hormones. But there are several different ways to interpret that outcome, e.g.:

#1: Bioidentical treatment is better than conventional treatment; these people got better because they shifted to an alternative therapy.

#2: Bioidentical treatment is no more effective than conventional treatment; those people would have seen the same improvement if only they'd stuck with conventional hormone therapy a bit longer.

#3: The sort of people who are willing and able to seek out bioidentical treatment tend to have other factors in their life that improve their chances of recovery.

#4: Bioidentical treatment is less effective than conventional treatment, but sometimes endo clears up of its own accord and alt-medicine gets the credit.

Fortunately there's an effective way to distinguish between those possibilities: double-blind randomised control trials. Have there been any RCTs done on bioidentical hormone therapy?



The bit where you accused an entire profession of being incompetent and corrupt.

I have no doubt that your only intention in this thread was to help the OP, but one of the things about medicine - and so much in life - is that it's not just about intentions.

Conventional medicine has its failings; ask any MD and they'll give you a long list of things that are wrong with it. But to characterise the entire profession the way you did is a matter of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Many people have died - or, worse, inadvertently killed their own children - because they bought into that prejudice.



Again: please do not put words in my mouth.

Nowhere in this thread have I attempted to discourage people from trying other types of medicine. As far as I can tell, only one person in this thread has attempted to disparage an entire field of medicine, and it ain't me.

Ok, this is honestly making me laugh at this point. This is ridiculous. What's this fuss all about anyway? Inner frustration?? I scratched your ego? Doesn't matter, it's your problem. I, just tried to help someone. You, simply brought everything back to yourself. No need to have a debate over here, not really the best place. And again, NOT helping anyone. Not like you care, but still. I already said what I wanted to say and people can form their own opinion. I have my opinions and you have yours. We don't agree. Who cares? I really don't feel like replying to every single thing you said again. And I don't think it would make any difference because obviously, you just want to have the last word. I'm leaving it to you, if you're that childish, go ahead. Because personally, I'm done.

Joanie.

 

[Red_Kiss]

I appreciate everyone's input so far. I tried a new doctor who takes a holistic approach and actually had some good ideas about supplements (which she doesn't sell, btw) and environmental factors. For instance, she pointed out that parabens can alter hormone levels. While we were able to come up with a regimen of vitamin and mineral supplements, I still walked out of the appointment with a prescription for the pill which I haven't filled..yet. I would like to try cannabis oil for pain management but unfortunately it's not legal where I live; it's an interesting option, though.
Thank you all for your thoughts and ideas.