dealing with dishonesty

[sophia jane]

I'm having some issues in RL (and online, too, actually) dealing with people being dishonest with me. Any thoughts on this? When can you forgive someone for keeping secrets or lying to you? And when should you not forgive them? And if you forgive them, should you trust them again?
I know I'll make my own decision on this, but at the moment I'm feeling very sorry for myself and would love to hear some thoughts on the subject.
Or some cheering up would do nicely too.

SJ

 

[moonlight elf]

I'm having some issues in RL (and online, too, actually) dealing with people being dishonest with me. Any thoughts on this? When can you forgive someone for keeping secrets or lying to you? And when should you not forgive them? And if you forgive them, should you trust them again?
I know I'll make my own decision on this, but at the moment I'm feeling very sorry for myself and would love to hear some thoughts on the subject.
Or some cheering up would do nicely too.

SJ

I'm terrible at giving advise without knowing the situation and forgiving someone for me would very much depend on the situation. It would depend on the person's intent, how the secret would effect my relationship and well on several other things.

Hope things work out well.

Good Luck SJ *hugs*

 

[DrFreud]

I'm having some issues in RL (and online, too, actually) dealing with people being dishonest with me. Any thoughts on this? When can you forgive someone for keeping secrets or lying to you? And when should you not forgive them? And if you forgive them, should you trust them again?
I know I'll make my own decision on this, but at the moment I'm feeling very sorry for myself and would love to hear some thoughts on the subject.
Or some cheering up would do nicely too.

SJ

What's the matter SJ. I leave you all warm and tingly after a nice spank and now a couple of hours later, you have the blues

The only wisdom I can offer you is that we have enough hurt to start with in RL so no point in hurting in cyberlife. Try to only take the positive aspect of it.

You were asking in the other thread whether cyber and RL can become one. Well when you cross the boundary, you're vulnerable to hurt and trust issues.
Do not feel sorry for yourself, just ask yourself whether it was worth it or not.

My thoughts are with you.

 

[sophia jane]

In RL it was my best friend who has lied to me and kept a secret. His intentions were good, but it still hurts me, and I don't know how to deal with it. I know I will forgive him, but I don't know if our friendship can be repaired.
In cyber, it is more a question of- who can you trust? How do you know?

SJ

 

[hydrex]

To forgive is devine. Forgiving and forgetting are two completely different things, and neither needs to be in conjunction with the other.

You should always forgive but never forget, and if you have to end the relationship because of a lie there is no need feel guilty about it.

 

[English Lady]

If it were an honest mistake, a lie to "protect" me I'd probably be inclined to forgive. I am very forgiving though,however if it's something that happens regularly...you may have to think over your relationship.

Online..it's a gut instinct thing love...you just have to go with it...

 

[elsol]

Forgiving someone is giving them permission to do it again.

But the closest I get to dishonesty with women is 'Do you really want me to answer that question?'

Of course, I get endless amusement at how many times said woman will blink and walk away at that point.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[Lord DragonsWing]

Sj,

If a friend lied to me to protect me, then I'd have to give them the benefit of the doubt. To me, that's what I'd do to protect a friend.

As for trusting in cyber? Well, I haven't figured that out yet. I've tried. And given myself totally to someone. But, the trust was lost after actions displayed. When u figure out how to trust someone in cyber let me know.

LDW

 

[Shadowskill Knight]

To me the issue isn't about forgiving. Its a matter of trust, once I feel its been broken I don't think it can be rebuilt. With friends who intend to protect I would forgive them but would I fully trust them again? That I'm not sure about.

As for cyber, its a hard decision. Good Luck.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

In RL it was my best friend who has lied to me and kept a secret. His intentions were good, but it still hurts me, and I don't know how to deal with it. I know I will forgive him, but I don't know if our friendship can be repaired.
In cyber, it is more a question of- who can you trust? How do you know?

SJ

I would suggest looking at the situation and the percieved motive. On eof my best firends in college was diagnosed with MS. I found out about it from a mutual freind, months later, and I admit, it hurt a good deal to think she didn't trust me. I asked her about it and upon reflection, I saw that her motive was to spare me. At the time, I was 6 hours from graduation, dealing with an appeal through the deal because they were trying to not giveme credit for 16 hours taken at a Juco in the summer, I was having severe migranes that were diagnosed as stress and a family member had recently passed away.

Obviously, I would have rather known, but she made the decision to wait until I wasn't under such tremendous pressure to tell me. She was particularly upset with the freind, because anyone she told, she asked to not tell me, as she planned on doing so when the time was better.

It hurt to be lied to, but at the same time, I understood her motive was of the very best and her intention was to tell me herself after my appeal was sorted out and I had had some time to grieve.

No one wishes to belied to. To me, the motive is important though. An attempt to decieve me for selfish reasons is one thing, an attempt to spare me from harm, even if misguided, is a mitigating factor.

So I guess my advice is look at the situation closely and make judgements on a situational basis. It's good to have principals & standards. Sometimes it's good to take a stand, but you are almost always poorer using a formula than taking in each situation and making decisions based on that unique situation's facts.

 

[steve w]

Sophia,

This is a tricky one and I've been struggling with something similar for a long time. Colleen makes some good points about motivation - if the aim was to protect/support/spare you, I think it can be forgiven, even if it means that the relationship is subtly altered for the future. If the lie was for selfish motives, or because someone was careless of your feelings, personally, I wouldn't forgive that.

That said, if you choose not to forgive, I think you do need to move on. If you do what is best for you and your well-being, how can that include holding on to resentment and anger and bitterness? Moving on takes courage, and neither means you're forgiving or forgetting, but that you are giving yourself permission to feel good again.

Hope that helps.

 

[tolyk]

Someone, at some point in time, said, "You must first learn to trust yourself before you can learn to recognise trust in another."

Or something like that.

 

[angela146]

I think you are getting some good advice on the "front end", i.e. should you forgive etc.

On the "back end", suppose you do forgive... then what?

One way of building trust is to give him a way to tell you when he feels uncomfortable with the truth. Men often need help communicating, especially when uncomfortable truths are involved.

Give him permission to say "no" or "not right now" rather than lying. That way you each have some boundaries. Your boundry is "don't lie to me". His is "don't force me to talk about something that I can't talk about."

 

[ElizabethWest]

In RL it was my best friend who has lied to me and kept a secret. His intentions were good, but it still hurts me, and I don't know how to deal with it. I know I will forgive him, but I don't know if our friendship can be repaired.
In cyber, it is more a question of- who can you trust? How do you know?

SJ

SJ, you've gotten some good advice and I can't add to it. I don't have many friends in RL but I have been very fortunate in the ones I've made online. I think in cyber life you just have to take it very slowly because only time will tell true intentions and motivations when you are unable to see a person's facial expressions and body language.

Here with a hug if you need it,

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

I'm having some issues in RL (and online, too, actually) dealing with people being dishonest with me. Any thoughts on this? When can you forgive someone for keeping secrets or lying to you? And when should you not forgive them? And if you forgive them, should you trust them again?
I know I'll make my own decision on this, but at the moment I'm feeling very sorry for myself and would love to hear some thoughts on the subject.
Or some cheering up would do nicely too.

SJ

Sophia,

The only people you can completely trust are your enemies. Those folks will always be out after you and there's nothing they can do that will make you feel betrayed or disappointed in them.

Everyone else has the potential to treat you "dishonestly." Granted, some have more potential than others, but there's potential in everyone but your enemies.

IMHO, that's not a cynical view of life, just realistic.

You can say to hell with all people and live in a cave, or you can accept that as the hand wrote upon the wall (biblical reference - check with EL if confused) "All have been judged and found wanting."

As for what to do, that's a decision only you can make. If the person is a good friend and this is the first lapse, someone you must deal with every day, or a rich uncle with no other living relatives, then I'd suggest you forgive (but don't forget - they may do it again) and then move on.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[cantdog]

Forgiveness is a selfish thing, in the end. If you do not forgive, you carry the resentment around like a millstone, indefinitely. The only person that hurts is yourself. Grudges are very heavy burdens. It is never under any circumstances a good plan to carry one around.

It may seem, as ELSol suggests, and it is indeed common wisdom, that to forgfive is to empower the person to repeat. But to forgive is to heal. The person may or may not deserve any such consideration. You are at complete liberty never to extend them trust again. But if you're going to withhold forgiveness, what you have done is chosen to hurt yourself afresh every time the subject comes up. One of the men who answered you is still doing that. It's unhealthy.

How much trust you can put in the person afterward-- that's the real question. How much do you think this means about the personality of the person involved?

Rumple makes the excellent point that no one is going to perfectly meet your ideal criteria. Not even yourself. It always helps to erect realistic expectations. "Dishonest" means a whole range of different things to different people.

Sometimes, "dishonest" behavior is nothing of the kind; people approach life from a very childish stance, some of them, and become upset about nothing that warranted all the drama.

Sometimes, a deliberate manipulation, which is an habitual characteristic of a true asshole, is discovered. That will also be called "being dishonest." It's of a completely different character.

From here, we can have little way to judge how serious a deceit has been involved. But on the subject, "Do you forhive?" the answer is "Hell, yeah." Because you don't need the heartache of a long term resentment.

If it's really a lying sack of turds you are dealing with, forgive them, and realize that they can't be trusted not to knife your dog if it's to their advantage. This is an advantage in future dealings. You can tell them no, tell them to fuck off, without a qualm. But forgive in any case, for you own sake.

 

[rgraham666]

One important facet of forgiveness, which seems to have been overlooked here, is that you should forgive yourself as well.

We live in a society that doesn't forgive mistakes. Mistakes, in many people's opinion, are not just the everyday occurrence that comes from the incompleteness of our knowledge and power, but a sign of a severe lack of moral character. It's a ridiculous assumption but there it is.

So, forgive yourself, sophia, if no one else.

P.S. *HUGS*

P.P.S. Damn. I love your AVs. That is a lovely ass.

 

[sophia jane]

Good morning all. Thanks for the sympathy and suggestions. I appreciate them all. I know I will forgive him. It is the future trust that worries me, but I'm sure I'll figure that out in time. Glad I had a place to vent and get some feedback from you all, though.

Rob- Thank Dr. Freud for this av- he gets the credit for this one.

SJ

 

[gauchecritic]

it hurt a good deal to think she didn't trust me..

I think that this is probably the nub of the entire thing and includes:

Forgiveness is a selfish thing

It seems to me that feeling betrayed is an extremely selfish thing.

It's not concerned with what someone has done, it's what they have done to you.

I think that anyone who feels betrayed (not angry or hurt) but betrayed has set themselves on a moral plateau and applied their own values as to their (for want of a better word) worth with regard to another persons feelings.

Being someone's best friend doesn't always mean that they are yours or vice versa.

Anger or hurt I can live with but there are very few people in the world that I know that can betray me.

 

[impressive]

Being someone's best friend doesn't always mean that they are yours or vice versa.

Oh, so true!

 

[LadyJeanne]

Forgiving is a necessity for your own peace of mind. Trust can be rebuilt with time and through actions that are guided by love and consideration.

Has this person apologized sincerely and genuinely? Do you believe he is truly sorry for the hurt he caused you? Does he understand the gravity of the betrayal you feel? If not, you may end up getting hurt again because he just doesn't get it. If so, then you have something to work with to slowly rebuild trust.

 

[sophia jane]

Forgiving is a necessity for your own peace of mind. Trust can be rebuilt with time and through actions that are guided by love and consideration.

Has this person apologized sincerely and genuinely? Do you believe he is truly sorry for the hurt he caused you? Does he understand the gravity of the betrayal you feel? If not, you may end up getting hurt again because he just doesn't get it. If so, then you have something to work with to slowly rebuild trust.

Yes to all questions. Just strange to find out the person you trust most has lied to you and kept secrets.

SJ

 

[LadyJeanne]

Yes to all questions. Just strange to find out the person you trust most has lied to you and kept secrets.

SJ

Strange and unsettling, indeed. And it sucks to be lied to. But, we are all flawed, we all fuck-up at one time or another, and we are usually sorry about it. Ideally, we learn from our mistakes and have compassionate people in our lives who can forgive us for them if we sincerely make amends.

Good luck to you both.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Yes to all questions. Just strange to find out the person you trust most has lied to you and kept secrets.

SJ

SJ

I have a very simple white hat/black hat rule. I want total honesty from my friends. That includes the worst criticism of my excesses. But with that goes total loyalty. Never lie and never pretend. Some nights we fight, some nights we rip each other's clothes off. But there is never a morning when he doesn't bring me a cup of coffee and a glass of juice - I think I like him.

 

[Softouch911]

.

Being someone's best friend doesn't always mean that they are yours or vice versa.

Now that, my friend, should be a bumper sticker!

Seems like it summarizes the entire experience behind the thread.

I could write one version of my life (I'm sure we all could if we wanted to really get depressed) that catalogued the times I've put faith and a level of commitment into a relationship and later found s/he was on an entirely different page.

And it goes the other way, unfortunately. There have been times I'm astonished and a little embarrassed that someone expects something from me that I just can't give. They misread something I said or did and end up feeling like I've set them up.

What a fucking waste.

Gee, I keep finding reasons for pity parties today!

Softie -- getting his lunch again