Data Mining?

[ElectricBlue]

I'm still bad like that when I get a good book.

I don't think you need a book to be bad, Chloe

 

[HisArpy]

Four to five books a week - that's impressive! I wish I could still keep up that kind of reading.

But I presume that's across all genres? My question was specifically about what romance books you've read in order to inform your opinion of the genre.

It's across all genres but I've read most of the books published by Harlequin Romance as well as several contemporary authors like Danielle Steele.

It's not that hard to figure out the formula if you read the material. On top of that, the publishers aren't shy about telling you what to write. Here's what one publisher says they want in the way of characters:

Sexy, capable heroes, typically in their mid-20s to early-30s, paired with spunky and/or sweet heroines. As the quote goes, “You know what’s sexier than a bad boy? A badass man that has his shit together.” Think small town-boys-done-good, anti-heroes, cowboys, athletes, military (current and former), firefighters, cops, sexy nerds, guys that own their own business, and CEOs. Dirty talkers not required.

If they specify that much, do you think they won't specify additional requirements on the overall plot? Of course they do, they have a LONG list of "what we won't accept" right there on the submissions page.

For Romance works, it comes down to playing the game. The publishers know what the readers BUY so that's what they accept from authors. If you're not within the scope of that, you don't get published.

 

[Bramblethorn]

It's across all genres but I've read most of the books published by Harlequin Romance as well as several contemporary authors like Danielle Steele.

Wow. If I've got the numbers right, even at five books a week that means you've spent more than eight years on Harlequins*. Even as an insomnia cure, that's a serious habit!

By my understanding, Harlequin is pretty much the McDonald's of the romance business: one of the biggest players in town, and if you go to them, you know exactly what you're going to get. "Formulaic" can be a very successful business strategy, because a lot of people don't want surprises.

But they're not the only game in town. Even the two-thousand-plus Harlequins you've read aren't going to tell you a lot about the rest of the industry, any more than eating two thousand Big Macs is going to give me a comprehensive knowledge of the restaurant trade.

Likewise... yeah, Danielle Steel is "contemporary" in the sense that she's still alive and publishing, but she's been in the business more than forty years now; it's no wonder that she's found a groove and settled into it, in the same sort of way that so many successful writers do (Tom Clancy, Dan Brown, every genre has those types).

Sounds like you've found something in the Harlequin formula that works for you - I can't imagine anybody spending eight years on books they hated - but if somebody wants non-formulaic romance, they're probably better off looking at newer authors and publishing houses. It's not all dukes and oil sheikhs these days!

*As of 2013, Harlequin Romance's back catalogue ran to 4406 novels, including a few reissues and a small number of non-romance books that were published under that imprint for some reason.

 

[HisArpy]

Wow. If I've got the numbers right, even at five books a week that means you've spent more than eight years on Harlequins*. Even as an insomnia cure, that's a serious habit!

By my understanding, Harlequin is pretty much the McDonald's of the romance business: one of the biggest players in town, and if you go to them, you know exactly what you're going to get. "Formulaic" can be a very successful business strategy, because a lot of people don't want surprises.

But they're not the only game in town. Even the two-thousand-plus Harlequins you've read aren't going to tell you a lot about the rest of the industry, any more than eating two thousand Big Macs is going to give me a comprehensive knowledge of the restaurant trade.

Likewise... yeah, Danielle Steel is "contemporary" in the sense that she's still alive and publishing, but she's been in the business more than forty years now; it's no wonder that she's found a groove and settled into it, in the same sort of way that so many successful writers do (Tom Clancy, Dan Brown, every genre has those types).

Sounds like you've found something in the Harlequin formula that works for you - I can't imagine anybody spending eight years on books they hated - but if somebody wants non-formulaic romance, they're probably better off looking at newer authors and publishing houses. It's not all dukes and oil sheikhs these days!

*As of 2013, Harlequin Romance's back catalogue ran to 4406 novels, including a few reissues and a small number of non-romance books that were published under that imprint for some reason.

I used to spend every Saturday at the library with my mom. She let me choose 6 books maximum but I usually only chose 5 because it was a round number for me. I would read them and return them the next Saturday. Eventually I got my own library card and burned my way out of children's books in about 3 months. I didn't read everything, I wasn't interested in pop up story books. Farley's "The Black Stallion" comes to mind as one I read multiple times. Another is "Tosco the Stubborn one" which is a fictional story about a mule in the early California era. Totally unbelievable in an adult context, but to a kid dreaming of better things, it was fantastic.

I started reading Romance because my mom had tons of them and those times when I couldn't get to the library or I finished all the new books I'd checked out and I needed something to read, I'd pick up one of her romances. To me the written word is eye catching. I read anything and everything.

I never said I hated the genre. What I said is that after awhile, the repetitive theme is boring. Somewhere between chapter 5 and 8 the reader usually knows who the bad guy is, who the hidden hero is, what kind of angst the protag and he will struggle with, and so on. From then on it s just fill in the blanks. Protagonists are almost always inexperienced in social relationships and how the world works women who, incidentally, have high caliber jobs that require an innate and comprehensive understanding of people and business. (Contradictory much?) The plain, ordinary worker-bot type never gets any press. There's a reason for that, but Average Joe or Plain Jane is never the protagonist. The only deviation from that I've ever seen is the Jim Carey movie "The Truman show".

Old westerns like those from Louis L'Amour and Zane Gray followed the same sort of script. They did it, and newer authors still do it, because it sells. If you want to be a successful or well-known published author you write to script. Fin.

 

[sr71plt]

I dreamt last night about going to the library (I have a library card but haven't used it in a decade. I buy my books and thereby support other authors) and checking out eight books. They were in two different piles for some unexplained reason, one pile of which I had to get read and returned in a week. I blame this thread for a dream that intruded on my usual "think up a sexy plot" dream schedule.

 

[Bebop3]

I blame this thread for a dream that intruded on my usual "think up a sexy plot" dream schedule.

Sorry.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I never said I hated the genre. What I said is that after awhile, the repetitive theme is boring. Somewhere between chapter 5 and 8 the reader usually knows who the bad guy is, who the hidden hero is, what kind of angst the protag and he will struggle with, and so on. From then on it s just fill in the blanks. Protagonists are almost always inexperienced in social relationships and how the world works women who, incidentally, have high caliber jobs that require an innate and comprehensive understanding of people and business. (Contradictory much?) The plain, ordinary worker-bot type never gets any press. There's a reason for that, but Average Joe or Plain Jane is never the protagonist. The only deviation from that I've ever seen is the Jim Carey movie "The Truman show".

Romance with working-class protagonists?

Romance novels featuring mechanics.
Construction workers in romance.
Historical romances featuring factories and mills.

etc. etc.

This is what I meant when I said Harlequin and Steel weren't the only game in town.

 

[Bray123]

There are things to be gained from data, certainly imho.

For best results (readers or points?) which day of the week to publish, or correlation to public holidays. How about the effect of a competition with similar themes?

The number of words before explicit sex, the length of such description.

The title - includes a name or starts with definite of indefinite article?

Length of story, numbers of chapters, the list is endless.

You may think that the results of number-crunching are going to be obvious and/or pointless, but I've been surprised a few times over the years by well conducted research. Sometimes the result highlights only the flaws in the research itself.

Personally I hate stories written in the future or 2nd person. Incest and Fantasy genres with monsters that go bump in the night do nothing for me. But it would be foolish to assume the same for everyone.