Danger of Google Docs

[TheArsonist]

I know a lot of you are using Google Docs to write in and share drafts, so you might want to be aware of this risk. Google could flag the content as inappropriate (without explaining why), and lock you out of your documents and even your account:

https://www.wired.com/story/what-happens-when-a-romance-author-gets-locked-out-of-google-docs/

 

[THBGato]

Immediately downloading all my files!

 

[madelinemasoch]

That's kinda terrifying. Also I don't see how that's allowed. It's our Google Docs page, not the public Google website.

 

[StillStunned]

That's kinda terrifying. Also I don't see how that's allowed. It's our Google Docs page, not the public Google website.

If Google stopped doing what isn't allowed, it would probably cease to exist.

 

[TheLobster]

The article mentions the content was shared, on Slack and Instagram, so it wasn't just her private scribbles. It was probably reported by some spiteful troll, at which point the automated system did what it was supposed to do.

 

[MrPixel]

I get to say it now: I told you so!

It must've been three years ago in a typical AH thread where several were extolling the virtues of Google Docs and cloud doc storage and all that. I said then and I will repeat: yes, it gives you device and location flexibility, but it has to be borne firmly in mind that 1) the storage medium belongs to somebody else; 2) you are subject to their rules; 3) those rules change without notice; 4) enforcement of said rules is frequently arbitrary and unannounced; and 5) there are rarely any channels for appeal. IOW, your work is lost or held ransom.

Oh. And 6) anything and everything on Google is thoroughly scanned by their screening algorithms. Nothing you put on Google is truly private. Nothing.

Photobucket taught the online world a really hard lesson from which everybody, including the company, did not recover.

If it is necessary to store your LitE works somewhere other than on devices or systems under your physical control, then use the LitE editor.

 

[lustychimera]

I get to say it now: I told you so!

It must've been three years ago in a typical AH thread where several were extolling the virtues of Google Docs and cloud doc storage and all that. I said then and I will repeat: yes, it gives you device and location flexibility, but it has to be borne firmly in mind that 1) the storage medium belongs to somebody else; 2) you are subject to their rules; 3) those rules change without notice; 4) enforcement of said rules is frequently arbitrary and unannounced; and 5) there are rarely any channels for appeal. IOW, your work is lost or held ransom.

Oh. And 6) anything and everything on Google is thoroughly scanned by their screening algorithms. Nothing you put on Google is truly private. Nothing.

Photobucket taught the online world a really hard lesson from which everybody, including the company, did not recover.

If it is necessary to store your LitE works somewhere other than on devices or systems under your physical control, then use the LitE editor.

I don't see that as a reason not to back up your files (you can have them save automatically) to a cloud storage like gdrive or one drive. Worst case, like you say, you get locked out and you can't access them. Oh well, you're not out anything that you'd be out had you only been saving them locally.

It seems much more risky to only have your stuff saved locally. If something happens to your computer, you're fucked, and that's much more likely than being flagged and locked out by google.

And like that topic from earlier, if you need proof of copyright, cloud storage is dated and stamped.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I've said it before many times and got told what a horrible person I am for saying so, but I'll say it again. Never write on a cloud. There is just no reason to. Save your own files take them with you and make backups. It's not difficult at all. Need to share your files? There are file locker hosts around for free, or you could always email them. Anyone who uses a cloud for the convenience of not having to copy their stuff to a datastick is just lazy.

 

[lovecraft68]

I've never used google docs. I lost an editor for my novels because I wouldn't use it.

I've always been surprised people who use it didn't think this was going to be a problem at some point.

I've also never trusted that the work people are going back and forth with doesn't end up stolen.

 

[TheLobster]

Keeping your work only locally, or even on just physical backups that you keep with you, is honestly crazy these days. You don't have to trust a single cloud provider; put your eggs in multiple baskets. Avoid those that combine pure storage with sharing, like Google or Microsoft (OneDrive), as this is exactly what bit the person described in this Wired article. But private folders in Dropbox, Proton Drive, private repos on Github are all sensible backup methods that should be considered.

Bottom line is, use more than one. You don't want a single point of failure, whether it's physical medium or "cloud."

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

I mean, I'm not surprised.

I use Google Docs myself to share stories with friends and beta readers, but I copy the stories from my Word files into Google Docs specifically for that reason. It's a lot safer than opening Word files that have been sent to me and could now contain god knows what.

Other than that, I can only second what @MrPixel already wrote. I couldn't say it any better!

And I also kinda get why it's happening. I mean, I still remember how subscribestar was shut down because people put pressure on PayPal and MasterCard to stop supporting them. And only because people didn't like that subscribestar allows I/T content and other stuff they didn't like. They are profit-oriented companies, after all, and shutting down my Drive is a lot cheaper for them than trying to not cause any trouble with their advertisers/supporters.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I've always been surprised people who use it didn't think this was going to be a problem at some point.

^^ This. Google already locked me out of my email because I refused to give them my cell number, and Yahoo erased 15 years of my emails because I didn't log in for 6 months, even though I'd gone longer without logging in many times before. Companies like Apple and Google and Microsoft and such that have broken so many privacy laws and anti-trust laws all over the world, who are on trial in Europe for illegal market practices and are working hand-in-hand with govts like China to spy on citizens are thoroughly untrustworthy in every fucking way. And you trust them with your smut fiction? These companies are in the business of selling information. They know who you are and they will tell anyone what you write for the right price. That might be fine today, but 5 or 10 years from now when the next fanatical president (we tend to get lots of those) decides to put people in jail for smut, google will gladly sell you out to the CIA or FBI.

But y'all want the convenience of not having to click copy and paste. It's more important than your freedoms.

 

[lovecraft68]

^^ This. Google already locked me out of my email because I refused to give them my cell number, and Yahoo erased 15 years of my emails because I didn't log in for 6 months, even though I'd gone longer without logging in many times before. Companies like Apple and Google and Microsoft and such that have broken so many privacy laws and anti-trust laws all over the world, who are on trial in Europe for illegal market practices and are working hand-in-hand with govts like China to spy on citizens are thoroughly untrustworthy in every fucking way. And you trust them with your smut fiction? These companies are in the business of selling information. They know who you are and they will tell anyone what you write for the right price. That might be fine today, but 5 or 10 years from now when the next fanatical president (we tend to get lots of those) decides to put people in jail for smut, google will gladly sell you out to the CIA or FBI.

But y'all want the convenience of not having to click copy and paste. It's more important than your freedoms.

 

[Otto26]

Reading the article I don't see any cause for undue alarm. You can continue to use docs and drive and the other tools, you just can't use them for file sharing. This has been the case since 2018 when FOSTA was passed. FOSTA seems to be the reason that so many websites and publishers have been tightening down on erotica.

 

[mildlyaroused]

Reading the article I don't see any cause for undue alarm. You can continue to use docs and drive and the other tools, you just can't use them for file sharing. This has been the case since 2018 when FOSTA was passed. FOSTA seems to be the reason that so many websites and publishers have been tightening down on erotica.

I agree. Nowhere does it say she lost her work. She was just unable to continue sharing it as she was. Likely the only reason it was flagged, therefore, is precisely because she was sharing it widely. It even says that after a few days her sharing functionality returned.

Google Docs does crawl all of your documents. That's how search functionality exists. But this isn't done in a manner which will get your account shut down, because it's not done by a person.

This isn't an excuse to not back up all your files physically, which I always have done for my main fiction. But this article is still no reason for fearmongering, either.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Google Docs does crawl all of your documents. That's how search functionality exists. But this isn't done in a manner which will get your account shut down, because it's not done by a person.

Not following the reasoning there. I'd have thought most of Google's moderation was automated?

 

[mildlyaroused]

Not following the reasoning there. I'd have thought most of Google's moderation was automated?

That's what I mean. Unless you have something truly heinous in your documents, that is explicitly not allowed - child abuse, gore, etc. - then a bot isn't going to flag your work on its own. You're only at a higher risk if you're sharing to others. Obviously be sensible about backing up your work, but the case in that article is headline-worthy for a reason: it's uncommon. And I'd argue it's written to sound worse than it is, as is the case with most media.

 

[VallesMarineris]

You really don't want to use Google if you care about your privacy. Here's a short summary of some of the ways (not all) Google tracks you:

https://www.wired.com/story/google-tracks-you-privacy/

If you publish on this site you should care about your privacy, right? It's pointless (and head-slappingly stupid) to have a disguised account here while keeping your work on Google Docs, Gmail, Assistant, whatever. There's an old saying about the Web: You're either at the table or on the menu. If you're not paying Google to sit at their table (advertisers pay them a lot to do that) then you're on their menu and they're serving you up to the corporations that pay them.

Even if you don't care about your privacy, keep in mind that those Google apps you depend on could evaporate tomorrow. There's a Web site that keeps a list of Google apps that Google has killed. Take a look:

https://killedbygoogle.com/

It's a long scroll to the bottom of that list. The list keeps growing.

Writing in Google Docs is like painting a mural on a wall of a Google building. It doesn't matter how great your art is. Google owns the wall it's on and can tear down that wall or paint it over any time some exec decides it's expendable.

If you value your work you need to own your tools. If you value your product you need to keep it safe. So just buy yourself a word processor and a USB drive. It's not difficult.

 

[Jmanchu]

Okay... I'm going to keep backups for Open Office from now on...

 

[mildlyaroused]

Even if you don't care about your privacy, keep in mind that those Google apps you depend on could evaporate tomorrow. There's a Web site that keeps a list of Google apps that Google has killed. Take a look:

Google isn't going to kill Google Docs tomorrow. It's possible, of course, but it's like saying that Microsoft might kill Windows 10 tomorrow without any warning. It's a flagship for them, and would be a terrible business decision.

On the topic of privacy, I'm afraid that writing smut offline and using a disguised account here won't protect your privacy. Unless you use a VPN every moment that you're connected to the web, your data will be collected. Google is not unique here; it's the case for most of the internet. Even if you do use a VPN, your device and other factors are not hidden. Corporations can and will still build a profile of you and your data.

To be clear, I recommend making backups of your work. But I think it's wrong to discourage writers, particularly those who aren't versed in the complexities of the digital world, from using Docs (or other cloud systems) at all. Cloud services aren't foolproof, but in different ways neither are hard drives or SSDs: they can break, corrupt, be lost in commute. If you upload your work, the privacy of local files becomes irrelevant anyway.

Just be sensible. There's no one way to completely eliminate risk, and there never will be. If you are scared enough, buy a typewriter, ink and some paper. Then never publish anything online. That's how you protect your intellectual property.

 

[NoTalentHack]

It is literally a five minute process to download every single thing that Google has related to you. I did it earlier today; there's a very nice zip file with everything I had in docs stashed out to the side. You can even set it up to run on a schedule.

Keep using Google Docs to write, or Office365, or whatever cloud-based solution you want. The notion that you can protect your privacy by staying off one of these platforms is ludicrous. Unless you're running on Linux, using OpenOffice, bouncing through multiple VPN tunnels, etc., and in general acting as though the NSA is constantly after you, the level of privacy you maintain is not significantly improved by avoiding cloud systems.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

On the topic of privacy, I'm afraid that writing smut offline and using a disguised account here won't protect your privacy. Unless you use a VPN every moment that you're connected to the web, your data will be collected. Google is not unique here; it's the case for most of the internet. Even if you do use a VPN, your device and other factors are not hidden. Corporations can and will still build a profile of you and your data.

Keep using Google Docs to write, or Office365, or whatever cloud-based solution you want. The notion that you can protect your privacy by staying off one of these platforms is ludicrous. Unless you're running on Linux, using OpenOffice, bouncing through multiple VPN tunnels, etc., and in general acting as though the NSA is constantly after you, the level of privacy you maintain is not significantly improved by avoiding cloud systems.

Correct, nothing is 100% private, but just handing them over your ideas makes it far too easy for them. Keeping your own files may not be 100% private but it's far far more private than clouding.

 

[NoTalentHack]

This was from DefcCon 2014: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ehrlic...l-your-identity-in-3-minutes/?sh=5a95b55715da

These are some of the most security-conscious people in the world. Just about every attendee there zealously guarded their personal information, far beyond "don't use the cloud." And Kevin Mitnick found out every important detail about one of them from just his name, age, and the state that he lived in under ten minutes.

 

[HeyAll]

Thanks for the note. Always need to diversify.

For the people who've just read the title, this is the important part:


That author later posted a video to Instagram explaining that it wasn’t the adult content in the files but rather “Google thought I was spamming people.” Apparently, sending the same doc to scores of people—for example, alpha and beta readers—can make it appear as though the doc was unsolicited.



Erotica is fine, but she was flagged as spam for sending it out too much.

 

[NoTalentHack]

Thanks for the note. Always need to diversify.

For the people who've just read the title, this is the important part:


That author later posted a video to Instagram explaining that it wasn’t the adult content in the files but rather “Google thought I was spamming people.” Apparently, sending the same doc to scores of people—for example, alpha and beta readers—can make it appear as though the doc was unsolicited.



Erotica is fine, but she was flagged as spam for sending it out too much.

So scaremongering, basically. Par for the course for modern Wired.