Creationism.

[CandiCame]

There was no sin and death before they ate the apple. They ate and now we have death - pretty simple. I do know how much of it is a lie. None of it.

You don't know that. You only think that because of the bible. Obviously, they ate. Because they talked about having to hunt and garden after that. That they were used to having food handed to them. Even if they were vegan, plants die when you eat them. There was totally death already. They just didn't think about it, because they didn't really think. The plant gave them the ability to think, just like the serpent said it would. It's even called the tree of knowledge.

 

[Byron In Exile]

God does not curse or use foul language.

God swears constantly.

I've been in his presence, and, trust me, it's mostly what he does.

We are such disappointments to him... I cannot tell you.

Like, everything we do is the wrong damn thing, and then he yells.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Fucking yell at the mirror, dude.

 

[hogjack]

God swears constantly.

I've been in his presence, and, trust me, it's mostly what he does.

We are such disappointments to him... I cannot tell you.

Like, everything we do is the wrong damn thing, and then he yells.

Though I agree that humans are extremely flawed I find it difficult to believe you have had a close enough relationship with God to know how He responds to the disappointment.

What kind of irrefutable evidence can you provide demonstrating that kind of access to The Creator? Probably zilch. God does not reveal Himself to just anyone. I think he did a bit to Moses. Maybe a Pope. Maybe Bach. But it is rare to have that level of intimate access.

 

[sethp]

Though I agree that humans are extremely flawed I find it difficult to believe you have had a close enough relationship with God to know how He responds to the disappointment.

What kind of irrefutable evidence can you provide demonstrating that kind of access to The Creator? Probably zilch. God does not reveal Himself to just anyone. I think he did a bit to Moses. Maybe a Pope. Maybe Bach. But it is rare to have that level of intimate access.

Not a pope....those self-righteous, child abuse covering up, women hating, torturing, inquisition loving, secret keeping, hypocritical fucks. I doubt any of them ever had a conversation with God. Didn't happen.

 

[Tryharder62]

You don't know that. You only think that because of the bible. Obviously, they ate. Because they talked about having to hunt and garden after that. That they were used to having food handed to them. Even if they were vegan, plants die when you eat them. There was totally death already. They just didn't think about it, because they didn't really think. The plant gave them the ability to think, just like the serpent said it would. It's even called the tree of knowledge.

Things were perfect in the garden. Abundance of food. Things were not as they are now. Nothing died then but if you want to clarify it to human beings only we can do that. God wanted them to live in the happy perfect existance he created. Many people use that as an arguement against him. If he can do anything he wants why didn't he have people just automatically follow him. That is how he created things. However, he gave us free will. The tree wasn't a tree of all knowledge. They weren't idiots. What the tree was was the knowledge of good and evil. Before they chose not to listen to him there was not evil.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Things were perfect in the garden. Abundance of food. Things were not as they are now. Nothing died then but if you want to clarify it to human beings only we can do that. God wanted them to live in the happy perfect existance he created. Many people use that as an arguement against him. If he can do anything he wants why didn't he have people just automatically follow him. That is how he created things. However, he gave us free will. The tree wasn't a tree of all knowledge. They weren't idiots. What the tree was was the knowledge of good and evil. Before they chose not to listen to him there was not evil.

Why did a perfect being create such insidious creatures that would eschew paradise?

 

[Tryharder62]

Why did a perfect being create such insidious creatures that would eschew paradise?

Like any good parent he wanted to give his children all the resources and advantages he could. However, he didn't micromanage. He didn't make them chose his way. He let them set the course for their lives like any good parent would.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Like any good parent he wanted to give his children all the resources and advantages he could. However, he didn't micromanage. He didn't make them chose his way. He let them set the course for their lives like any good parent would.

But since it was His Light Bearer, another of His creations, that took the form of the snake and corrupted Man aren't all of his creations corrupt and imperfect? and therefore it is not a choice, but an inevitability?

 

[Tryharder62]

Actually in Rev 12:9 speaks "that ancient serpent is called the devil or Satan who leads the world astry." Some feel the serpent was Satan in disquise. I don't know how I feel about that yet. I don't think God hates people or in this case creatures who have differing opinions than him. I think he allow controversay because the search many times can direct people toward him. I don't think that because there was a creature that disagreed with God in the Garden that it necessarily was of him and that sinning is inevitable. I think God wants us to be able to see differing views and be able to articlulate why we disagree. Why his way is best.

 

[CandiCame]

Things were perfect in the garden. Abundance of food. Things were not as they are now. Nothing died then but if you want to clarify it to human beings only we can do that. God wanted them to live in the happy perfect existance he created. Many people use that as an arguement against him. If he can do anything he wants why didn't he have people just automatically follow him. That is how he created things. However, he gave us free will. The tree wasn't a tree of all knowledge. They weren't idiots. What the tree was was the knowledge of good and evil. Before they chose not to listen to him there was not evil.

Again, there is no food that your digestive system won't kill, even if it's alive when you eat it. That's not how biology works. Even if they were vegan, they had to kill plants to eat them. Death is a part of life. Even if you think that the circle of life is a divine plan, that plan still includes death. Humans didn't invent death. God did.

 

[Sean]

I'm going to have to put myself on iggy. It's the only solution.

 

[butters]

I'm going to have to put myself on iggy. It's the only solution.

that bad, isn't it?

i try to stop reading this thread, but can't seem to stay away from it - it's quite horrifying....

 

[CandiCame]

that bad, isn't it?

i try to stop reading this thread, but can't seem to stay away from it - it's quite horrifying....

And the thing is, we all know that they're just fucking with us, but for some reason, I can't help but respond.

I think I have a problem...

 

[butters]

And the thing is, we all know that they're just fucking with us, but for some reason, I can't help but respond.

I think I have a problem...

maybe you have faith in them seeing the light if you stand up and open the door for them....


just the one? i'll inform Huston asap, copy that?

 

[CandiCame]

maybe you have faith in them seeing the light if you stand up and open the door for them....


just the one? i'll inform Huston asap, copy that?

God... thanks... now that fucking song is playing through my head, and I don't even know the words, just the "faith in nothing" part and an annoying tune.

 

[phrodeau]

Again, there is no food that your digestive system won't kill, even if it's alive when you eat it. That's not how biology works. Even if they were vegan, they had to kill plants to eat them. Death is a part of life. Even if you think that the circle of life is a divine plan, that plan still includes death. Humans didn't invent death. God did.

That calls into question the story of Jonah.

JONAH 1:17 Now the Lord provided a huge fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

 

[CandiCame]

That calls into question the story of Jonah.

JONAH 1:17 Now the Lord provided a huge fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Yeah, that story always did kind of fuck with me. How does one breath in a fish gullet? I mean, even if you did manage to keep yourself from getting digested? How does that work?

At least that story had a moral. Don't run like a bitch from what god tells you to do or your ass will get eaten by a fish.

 

[Oscuridad]

that bad, isn't it?

i try to stop reading this thread, but can't seem to stay away from it - it's quite horrifying....

Seconded.

 

[Tryharder62]

Again, there is no food that your digestive system won't kill, even if it's alive when you eat it. That's not how biology works. Even if they were vegan, they had to kill plants to eat them. Death is a part of life. Even if you think that the circle of life is a divine plan, that plan still includes death. Humans didn't invent death. God did.

The bible never refers to plants as living. They may "grow" or "flourish" but they do not "Live", since they are not "alive" neither having "life" (Nephesh) nor breath of life(ruach), nor "blood" (i.e. the life of the flesh is in the blood) (Leviticus 17:11). The state may be analogous to the lack of consciousness.

God created paradise, Adam and Eve by thier choices brought death into it.

 

[Tryharder62]

And the thing is, we all know that they're just fucking with us, but for some reason, I can't help but respond.

I think I have a problem...

Nope, not fucking with you - but I have thought about it.

I think I have a problem too.

 

[Tryharder62]

Yeah, that story always did kind of fuck with me. How does one breath in a fish gullet? I mean, even if you did manage to keep yourself from getting digested? How does that work?

At least that story had a moral. Don't run like a bitch from what god tells you to do or your ass will get eaten by a fish.

Is it alright if I quote you in Sunday School?

 

[phrodeau]

The bible never refers to plants as living. They may "grow" or "flourish" but they do not "Live", since they are not "alive" neither having "life" (Nephesh) nor breath of life(ruach), nor "blood" (i.e. the life of the flesh is in the blood) (Leviticus 17:11). The state may be analogous to the lack of consciousness.

God created paradise, Adam and Eve by thier choices brought death into it.

Again, from Jonah 4:10, God told Jonah that a plant died.

 

[Tryharder62]

Again, from Jonah 4:10, God told Jonah that a plant died.

I should not have made such a broad generalization. You are right and I stand corrected. I am trying to explain that plants don't die in the same way that humans do. They live in a biological sense but they do not have a spirit, consciousness or soul. They do not have free-will. Human death was not brought into play until the fall of Adam and Eve.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

I should not have made such a broad generalization. You are right and I stand corrected. I am trying to explain that plants don't die in the same way that humans do. They live in a biological sense but they do not have a spirit, consciousness or soul. They do not have free-will. Human death was not brought into play until the fall of Adam and Eve.

"What I am saying with this boastful confidence, I say not with the Lord’s authority but as a fool."