Creationism.

[Tryharder62]

OK. Just as an aside, in response to some of your post, IMO many people who are recent converts to religion have more often than not, trodden some of lifes hardest paths on their way to faith.

Now to your question regarding filtering information. Well, because I don't believe the Universe and all it contains was made in 6 days I don't take historical records contained in the Bible as literal. So, I believe that when the Bible records some amazing event that appears completely improbable it just requires us to understand the event within the context or culture of the time.

For example the parting of the Red Sea by Moses. I favour a scientific explanation such as : http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=99580&page=1 It just so happened it was very windy that day

You just made my point that science will bridge the gap between the two theories. The parting of the Red Sea went from being seen by Scientists as a total crock to being seen as a possibility. I do believe that God controls the wind.

I was just surprised when you said "With our current knowledge we sometimes have to "filter" the information to have a really good grip on what was going on thousands of years ago." The bible has withstood thousands of years of scrutiny. I just choose not to filter the information and just look at the actual facts.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Adam was not perfect and he made mistakes including cursing, social drinking and lust.

But as my family taught me Adam was the first Christian. My uncle - God rest his soul - taught me that the name "Adam" means "First in the Lord's Flock" or "Jesus' First Disciple".

It doesn't.

"Adam" (Hebrew: אָדָֿם) comes from the trilateral root אָדַֿם ( 'ADM ), meaning "red", "fair", "handsome".[2] In the Book of Genesis, Adam occurs as a proper name in chapters 2-5. As a masculine noun, 'adam [3] means "man", "mankind" usually in a collective context as in humankind,[2] and may also refer to the individual human.[4] The noun 'adam is also the masculine form of the word adamah which means "ground" or "earth". It is related to the words: adom (red), admoni (ruddy), and dam (blood).[5]

 

[KingOrfeo]

Many envy Adam because he lived in a time of few distractions. He had plenty of time to read The Holy Bible and pray. There as no TV (or any pop culture), no work (God gave him everything) and no urban noise.

There was no Bible, either.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Of course there was a Bible! You think all powerful, all knowing God didn't know all the stories and have them written down on day 0?

 

[hogjack]

There was no Bible, either.

Sure. Adam didn't have the Holy Bible.

The Good Book has comforted people for 4,000 years. God would not have allowed Eve and Adam to live without the wisdom and salvation described in the text. I do not know what language Adam read it in (Greek?) but he surely had the material available to him. Otherwise, it would have been difficult to be a good, God-fearing Christian.

 

[hogjack]

It doesn't.

Wikipedia is hardly the source of knowledge to turn to for real biblical information. My uncle was a very smart man so he would not have told us if he did not know. He was well-read and an accountant not to mention a church layperson.

 

[neci]

God is an ape and we His dancing monkeys.

 

[fair_warning]

I do believe that God controls the wind.

Fair enough. Ok, what I struggle with is this control thing that God has going on. Let's take some givens that you will agree with....

1. God made everything from the universe down and controls everything

2. He did it in 6 days.

3. He is really, really good at project management and created countless
forms of life that contained within them genetic material ensuring they
would have the capability to evolve even further when he wasn't around
directing things.

4. He sent his only son to earth where he was killed

5. He gave us 10 rules never to break

6. He accepts that humans are weak and prone to naughtiness but as long as
the naughty repent and believe he will forgive and make sure you end up
living for ever in a really nice place (heaven)

6. If you don't believe all this he'll make sure you regret it and he'll torment
you in hell for eternity

Now, ok, what I don't get is this - why, for someone so powerful (I mean, he MADE the universe and parting seas is just pffft, a puff of wind) does he get off on sending people to hell or heaven and setting them tests and...shit.

If he wanted a planet populated by those made in his own image, why didn't he make everyone nice and..godly? Why does he need this earth of random shits and chaos and war and death and....??

If his aim is to 'save' us individually and he's so powerful (I repeat - he MADE the universe) why didn't he save himself a lot of bother and make us perfect at the start?

 

[LadyKandi]

God created Earth and the heavens approximately 4,000 years ago.

Any scientist who cannot acknowledge it has had their heart hardened almost beyond redemption. Almost!

Um I think Earth is alot older then that. We have fossil records and carbon dating that have found it to be well over 1000000 years old. I'm a "scientist" and I still have a pretty warm and loving heart.

 

[CHNOPS]

Um I think Earth is alot older then that. We have fossil records and carbon dating that have found it to be well over 1000000 years old. I'm a "scientist" and I still have a pretty warm and loving heart.

Never have quotation marks been so aptly deployed.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Never have quotation marks been so aptly deployed.

Okay, I lol'd.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Did she count those zeroes, or just hold a finger down on the key?

idk...

 

[LadyKandi]

Did she count those zeroes, or just hold a finger down on the key?

idk...

No I counted them, over one million years old. Actually I think it might be billion, I can't remember.

 

[kbate]

No I counted them, over one million years old. Actually I think it might be billion, I can't remember.

What is your "scientific" field of study? We have so few educated persons on this board that finally hearing from one might be enlightening.

 

[CandiCame]

Christ on a cracker, is this thread still going and still on topic? I think that's a record.

 

[Sean]

No I counted them, over one million years old. Actually I think it might be billion, I can't remember.

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/guns/headshot-suicide.gif

 

[planetqueen]

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/guns/headshot-suicide.gif

Haha. perfect.

 

[hogjack]

Um I think Earth is alot older then that.

Biblical experts overwhelmingly agree to 4,000 to 4,500 years. You can think it is older but that doesn't make it so.

Do you know how hot the sun is? Really hot. If the Earth were, let's say, even 20,000 years old it would be burned to a crisp. Obviously it is not.

 

[hogjack]

1. God made everything from the universe down and controls everything
Correct.

2. He did it in 6 days.
Correct.

3. He is really, really good at project management and created countless
forms of life that contained within them genetic material ensuring they
would have the capability to evolve even further when he wasn't around
directing things.
Correct.

4. He sent his only son to earth where he was killed
Correct.
Correct.

5. He gave us 10 rules never to break
Correct.

6. He accepts that humans are weak and prone to naughtiness but as long as
the naughty repent and believe he will forgive and make sure you end up
living for ever in a really nice place (heaven)
Correct.

6. If you don't believe all this he'll make sure you regret it and he'll torment
you in hell for eternity
Correct.

 

[kbate]

I just read¹ a book which contained a chapter completely refuting Darwin and proving God. Godless by Ann Coulter.

She proved God by saying, "God can do anything including evolution."

So there. Creation wins.





¹read means sat down and read thoroughly until her inane version of vitriol toward anything not her annoyed me, then I skimmed.

 

[Tryharder62]

Fair enough. Ok, what I struggle with is this control thing that God has going on. Let's take some givens that you will agree with....

1. God made everything from the universe down and controls everything

2. He did it in 6 days.

3. He is really, really good at project management and created countless
forms of life that contained within them genetic material ensuring they
would have the capability to evolve even further when he wasn't around
directing things.

4. He sent his only son to earth where he was killed

5. He gave us 10 rules never to break

6. He accepts that humans are weak and prone to naughtiness but as long as
the naughty repent and believe he will forgive and make sure you end up
living for ever in a really nice place (heaven)

6. If you don't believe all this he'll make sure you regret it and he'll torment
you in hell for eternity

Now, ok, what I don't get is this - why, for someone so powerful (I mean, he MADE the universe and parting seas is just pffft, a puff of wind) does he get off on sending people to hell or heaven and setting them tests and...shit.

If he wanted a planet populated by those made in his own image, why didn't he make everyone nice and..godly? Why does he need this earth of random shits and chaos and war and death and....??

If his aim is to 'save' us individually and he's so powerful (I repeat - he MADE the universe) why didn't he save himself a lot of bother and make us perfect at the start?

1. God made everything in the universe and could control everything. He chose to give humans free will. I know you don't like that term from previous posts but he did.

2. That is what I believe yes

3. LOL Yes that is a possibility, although he will always be around to direct things.

4. You know I had the toughest time with this. I wouldn't do it that way. I have sons, I would have thought of another way. I don't know for sure but this is what I think. God , Jesus, and the Holy spirit are the "Trinity" God that I believe in. I think that God wanted us to see his love. No greater love has he that he lay down his life for his friends. In trying to explain love of my animals vs love for my kids I told my boys - As much as I love my animals I would not die for them. I would give my life for you. I love you that much.

5. Yes he gave us laws to live by. He wants the best for our lives. I'm married and I am on a website sometimes committing cyber adultery. Yikes It is not what he wants for me. I wrestle with it. I am a work in progress. He still loves me though.

6. He just wants to fellowship with us. He wants us to ask him to help us and we help him by living the best lives we can. I quoted John 3:16 For God So Loved the World that he gave His Only Begotten Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. That is it. I don't even have to repent for every little sin (thank God) to go to heaven. It will become evident through a Christian's lfe that we are moving closer to him by how we conduct ourselves. We can't just go crazy sinning all over the place or we are saying that we don't believe what God has intended for us is the best. Working toward a goal of being the best I can be.

7. If after all he does to let you have information and choice if you choose against him and deny him why would you even worry that you wouldn't see him face to face. He brings those who choose to believe him home to him. To be able to fellowship with him through eternity.


He is Godly and powerful. I think he gives us tests to help us look at our lives more seriously. What is it we truly believe?

The fact is God could have made it a lot easier on himself and made us all run around like robots adoring him. But he loves us. This is not a quote from the bible but I think it is helpful. "If you love something let it go. If it comes back to you, It is yours forever. If it doesn't it never was. " Just an interesting thought. He loved us enough to let us go, but he stands there with open arms hoping our choices bring us back to him.

Kath

 

[LadyKandi]

What is your "scientific" field of study? We have so few educated persons on this board that finally hearing from one might be enlightening.

Lol Im just a biology major, I dont have one yet. I do love cardiology and certaim areas of zoology.

 

[phrodeau]

Biblical experts overwhelmingly agree to 4,000 to 4,500 years. You can think it is older but that doesn't make it so.

Do you know how hot the sun is? Really hot. If the Earth were, let's say, even 20,000 years old it would be burned to a crisp. Obviously it is not.

I thought the age figure was more like 6,000. Are you forgetting about the last two millennia?

 

[LadyKandi]

Biblical experts overwhelmingly agree to 4,000 to 4,500 years. You can think it is older but that doesn't make it so.

Do you know how hot the sun is? Really hot. If the Earth were, let's say, even 20,000 years old it would be burned to a crisp. Obviously it is not.

Okay my only problem with this is you constantly use the Bible. One thing I know about the Bible is that it was written by humans and humans are creatures of error. So the Bible isn't free of scientific (also historical) error. Still we have carbon dating that shows we've had life on Earth for more than 4000 or so years.

 

[hogjack]

I thought the age figure was more like 6,000. Are you forgetting about the last two millennia?

There are proponents in the "6,000 years old" camp but these are mostly evolutionists pretending to be God-loving creationists.

6,000 years might as well be 600 million years.