Copyright??

[BACarter]

I am a newbie and was wondering if anyone could tell me how to copyright my stories? I have a few I would like to share, but they are not copyrighted. Shouldn't I do that first?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

What you mean is: Should I record the copyright? The copyright already exists once the manuscript is created. But you have to prove you created it first...thus the record.

 

[BACarter]

What you mean is: Should I record the copyright? The copyright already exists once the manuscript is created. But you have to prove you created it first...thus the record.

OK, how do I record the copyright? I assume it has to be recorded to be enforced?

 

[ms.read]

OK, how do I record the copyright? I assume it has to be recorded to be enforced?

I want to know too.... Somebody answer his/her question right now!!! I demand it!

 

[Guest]

James' advice is confusing.

Actually, once you post your story here or anywhere else, it is already yours. You already own the copyright, and your proof of that is the posting date. If it is indeed your story, there is no way anyone else can prove they wrote it earlier, right?

Also, what some folks around here suggest to do is to mail a copy of the story to yourself. Don't open the letter. Keep it sealed and in a safe place as proof of the time the story was written.

Good luck.

 

[Guest]

I want to know too.... Somebody answer his/her question right now!!! I demand it!

Too much coffee today, m'dear?

 

[elsol]

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

The above is a very good resource on copyright law for the layman... plus it may answer some other questions.

The below excerpt answers the core of your question.

MYTH 1: "If it doesn't have a copyright notice, it's not copyrighted."

This was true in the past, but today almost all major nations follow the Berne copyright convention. For example, in the USA, almost everything created privately and originally after April 1, 1989 is copyrighted and protected whether it has a notice or not. The default you should assume for other people's works is that they are copyrighted and may not be copied unless you know otherwise. There are some old works that lost protection without notice, but frankly you should not risk it unless you know for sure.
It is true that a notice strengthens the protection, by warning people, and by allowing one to get more and different damages, but it is not necessary. If it looks copyrighted, you should assume it is. This applies to pictures, too. You may not scan pictures from magazines and post them to the net, and if you come upon something unknown, you shouldn't post that either.

The correct form for a notice is:


"Copyright [dates] by [author/owner]"

You can use C in a circle © instead of "Copyright" but "(C)" has never been given legal force. The phrase "All Rights Reserved" used to be required in some nations but is now not legally needed most places. In some countries it may help preserve some of the "moral rights."

[removed for being untrue...]

 

[ms.read]

totally way to much coffee. (snuggles up to Sarrah and whispers) I had one whole cup. that's pretty good for someone who religiously does not drink caffiene, due to the horrible effects it has on me. They should put a warning lable that goes something like this:

"WARNING: IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO BOUNCE OF WALLS, HAVE EXTREME SEXUAL ENERGY, DRINK ONLY A HALF A CUP OF THIS BEVERAGE, IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN A HALF CUP YOU SHALL HAVE FATAL EFFECTS SUCH AS FRUITLESS MASTURBATION, LOSS OF ORGASM, AND EXTREME YEARNING TO FUCK EVERYTHING IN SIGHT."

So, would anybody on this [CENSORED] forsaken site, PLEEAASE have the answer to the copy right thing. I have some wonderful stories that I would love to post... but I don't want them STOLEN.

and another request, can I please have an orgasm donor? pretty please with sugar on top?

 

[Guest]

totally way to much coffee. (snuggles up to Sarrah and whispers) I had one whole cup. that's pretty good for someone who religiously does not drink caffiene, due to the horrible effects it has on me. They should put a warning lable that goes something like this:

"WARNING: IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO BOUNCE OF WALLS, HAVE EXTREME SEXUAL ENERGY, DRINK ONLY A HALF A CUP OF THIS BEVERAGE, IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN A HALF CUP YOU SHALL HAVE FATAL EFFECTS SUCH AS FRUITLESS MASTURBATION, LOSS OF ORGASM, AND EXTREME YEARNING TO FUCK EVERYTHING IN SIGHT."

So, would anybody on this [CENSORED] forsaken site, PLEEAASE have the answer to the copy right thing. I have some wonderful stories that I would love to post... but I don't want them STOLEN.

and another request, can I please have an orgasm donor? pretty please with sugar on top?

I like the extreme sexual energy part.

You wanna meet somewhere and discuss it? Er, discuss copyright issues?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

http://www.copyright.gov/

Leave it to the usual suspects to piss in the punch.

The bottom-line, sweeties, is who will a judge believe? You? Or the US Copyright Office?

 

[Guest]

http://www.copyright.gov/

Leave it to the usual suspects to piss in the punch.

The bottom-line, sweeties, is who will a judge believe? You? Or the US Copyright Office?

Usual suspects? What the fuck is your problem?

Have you and amicus become asshole buddies now?

 

[BACarter]

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

The above is a very good resource on copyright law for the layman... plus it may answer some other questions.

The below excerpt answers the core of your question.



If you're afraid of getting into a legal battle; send yourself several copies through REGISTERED mail and maintain the seals.

I went to the link above. Great information!

So, I gather that from all this that I can send myself copies in registered mail to prove my copyright. But if someone else copies the stories somewhere else, it is upon me to go after that person, which sounds like an iffy situation at best.

What about a real book? Is there a place to register that or does it fall under the same rules?

I do appreciate your response.

 

[Guest]

I went to the link above. Great information!

So, I gather that from all this that I can send myself copies in registered mail to prove my copyright. But if someone else copies the stories somewhere else, it is upon me to go after that person, which sounds like an iffy situation at best.

What about a real book? Is there a place to register that or does it fall under the same rules?

I do appreciate your response.

Every so often google for your stories. Sometimes use the title, sometimes the first line, sometimes an unusual line in the middle somewhere. Google it in quotes.

If someone has stolen your work it will show up in the search. Then alert the site owners of Literotica via PM, and they will pursue the issue.

It happens. But Lit does a truly fine job of recovering stolen stories. They've even shut down entire sites before.

 

[elsol]

I went to the link above. Great information!

So, I gather that from all this that I can send myself copies in registered mail to prove my copyright. But if someone else copies the stories somewhere else, it is upon me to go after that person, which sounds like an iffy situation at best.

What about a real book? Is there a place to register that or does it fall under the same rules?

I do appreciate your response.

If you're unsure or even think you might get into a legal battle... you better get the official copyright as per the site james provided (it's not that hard).

As james pointed out, it will be very tough for someone to trump the official copyright and usually takes too much effort for a commercial entity to do so.

I say 'hard' because I've been a part of a civil lawsuit and reality is perception & who the jury likes so I don't swing on that. The copyright is among the biggest trump cards, but as the author you have the ability to create some hardcore protection almost upon the creation of the piece.

And yes, it's you vs. someone else in a copyright case for the most part... the copyright puts the government on someone's side and that's nice.

 

[sr71plt]

http://www.copyright.gov/

Leave it to the usual suspects to piss in the punch.

The bottom-line, sweeties, is who will a judge believe? You? Or the US Copyright Office?

Ah, good. Someone provided the URL to the government copyright page, which gives full instructions on filing for copyright.

Hint: For short stories, collect all you've got and submit them as one work--then you only have to pay the copyright fee once for the group. And you don't have to publish them together later.

Another hint: If you live in the States, don't fall for the send a sealed copy to yourself method. This has never been honored by a U.S. Court. (It only is proof of where the the envelope has been, not when you put anything in it.) In contrast, this is a valid thing to do in the UK to cover coyright (which is why some still are floating the "poor man's" copyright myth in the United States).

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

BACARTER

Sigh. I think you oughta take Sarah's advice, and dont even read a word the Copyright Office posted. I mean, what do they know!

 

[elsol]

Another hint: If you live in the States, don't fall for the send a sealed copy to yourself method. This has never been honored by a U.S. Court. (It only is proof of where the the envelope has been, not when you put anything in it.) In contrast, this is a valid thing to do in the UK to cover coyright (which is why some still are floating the "poor man's" copyright myth in the United States).

That's actually rather interesting... excuse me, I have to go smack a college professor.

 

[sr71plt]

That's actually rather interesting... excuse me, I have to go smack a college professor.

The difference in the UK and U.S. systems really does provide a lot of confusion on this. There is no official copyright registry in the UK, so they do have to have some fallbacks.

The copyright issue is rather a Catch-22. When they passed the law that said that you have copyright just by creating the work, they didn't bother to build in any real legal protections on this. If you read into the U.S. Copyright office Web site, you'll notice that your case won't be entertained in a U.S. Court unless one party has a copyright registration in hand. That pretty much takes all of the working teeth out of the "it's yours the moment you create it" business.

 

[elsol]

The difference in the UK and U.S. systems really does provide a lot of confusion on this. There is no official copyright registry in the UK, so they do have to have some fallbacks.

The copyright issue is rather a Catch-22. When they passed the law that said that you have copyright just by creating the work, they didn't bother to build in any real legal protections on this. If you read into the U.S. Copyright office Web site, you'll notice that your case won't be entertained in a U.S. Court unless one party has a copyright registration in hand. That pretty much takes all of the working teeth out of the "it's yours the moment you create it" business.

That could get interesting.

The Berne Convention says 'tangible form', but the copyright office can only prove registration.

 

[sr71plt]

That could get interesting.

The Berne Convention says 'tangible form', but the copyright office can only prove registration.

Don't think I follow. Do you mean "only the copyright office can prove registration"? It doesn't track the other way, because in the United States there's nothing better than holding the copyright office registration in your hand/name.

The Berne Convention's "tangible form" isn't helpful in itself; as noted up the thread, it's no problem at all for both parties in a dispute to show up with a copy of the work in hand in just as good (or provable) a form as any other (ergo "tangible form"). Can't get much murkier in law cases than with copyright.

 

[Lisa Denton]

I am a newbie and was wondering if anyone could tell me how to copyright my stories? I have a few I would like to share, but they are not copyrighted. Shouldn't I do that first?

You don't have to get the supreme court to make a ruling, you are not inventing a space shuttle.

For WHAT YOU WANT all you need to do is post your lil story, now, your story is very important to you, Laurel and Manu know this and when your story is posted your username is at the top with a little C inside a circle, copyright.

They will protect it, if somebody posts it under a different name somewhere else you just tell them. For YOUR PURPOSES that is all you need it's recorded that you posted your story that date written by your pen-name.

If somebody wants to steal your story, they are fucked. If somebody wants to steal your story and hire a team of high dollar lawyers for years and take it all the way to the supreme court, you are probably fucked, but who would do all that and hope a judge rules for them maybe at the end.

 

[sr71plt]

You don't have to get the supreme court to make a ruling, you are not inventing a space shuttle.

For WHAT YOU WANT all you need to do is post your lil story, now, your story is very important to you, Laurel and Manu know this and when your story is posted your username is at the top with a little C inside a circle, copyright.

They will protect it, if somebody posts it under a different name somewhere else you just tell them. For YOUR PURPOSES that is all you need it's recorded that you posted your story that date written by your pen-name.

If somebody wants to steal your story, they are fucked. If somebody wants to steal your story and hire a team of high dollar lawyers for years and take it all the way to the supreme court, you are probably fucked, but who would do all that and hope a judge rules for them maybe at the end.

Sorry, this is rubbish.

Posting here won't prove a thing regarding copyright ownership.

I'm with James Johnson on this--why would you go to the horse's mouth (the U.S. copyright office) on this issue when you can sail down some dark path in pursuit of what one of your cyber chum's Aunt Hazel heard at the hairdressers?

Only Internet chatrooms can be this zany.

 

[elsol]

Don't think I follow. Do you mean "only the copyright office can prove registration"? It doesn't track the other way, because in the United States there's nothing better than holding the copyright office registration in your hand/name.

The Berne Convention's "tangible form" isn't helpful in itself; as noted up the thread, it's no problem at all for both parties in a dispute to show up with a copy of the work in hand in just as good (or provable) a form as any other (ergo "tangible form"). Can't get much murkier in law cases than with copyright.

The US signed Berne. Berne sets a standard for copyright, 'tangible form', but the copyright office can't prove to that standard.

So I'm curious what standard of proof a Court uses or would set to invalidate a copyright in that type of case. (If the judge, didn't slam his gavel and say 'Registered Copyright Wins!')

--> As to murkier, sorry, I can't agree. Patent Law will always trump for me. A fucking morass with millions of millions of dollars on the line, but I've been in the hot seat for those so I'm probably VERY biased.

 

[snowy ciara]

I went to the link above. Great information!

So, I gather that from all this that I can send myself copies in registered mail to prove my copyright. But if someone else copies the stories somewhere else, it is upon me to go after that person, which sounds like an iffy situation at best.

What about a real book? Is there a place to register that or does it fall under the same rules?

I do appreciate your response.

Yes, a "real book", whether it's made from paper or electrons is copyrighted through the same place. If you are able to snag a reputable agent, they will generally take care of the copyright issues for you. Read your contract. If it doesn't have that written in somewhere, ask your agent to add it for you. But IF you publish through print-on-demand services (like LuLu) or vanity presses, you MUST register the copyright yourself. Simply having a book published does not constitute a legal registration of copyright, just as the date of publication on a story doesn't.

Another good resource for almost all things writing is Absolute Write. Pay special attention to the "Bewares and Background Checks" section of the forum. They're up to date on most of the current scams and scam artists, er agents out there. They've got tons of copyright info. They even had copies of the forms to print out and send in at one time, but I don't know if they still do or not.

 

[sr71plt]

The US signed Berne. Berne sets a standard for copyright, 'tangible form', but the copyright office can't prove to that standard.

So I'm curious what standard of proof a Court uses or would set to invalidate a copyright in that type of case. (If the judge, didn't slam his gavel and say 'Registered Copyright Wins!')

--> As to murkier, sorry, I can't agree. Patent Law will always trump for me. A fucking morass with millions of millions of dollars on the line, but I've been in the hot seat for those so I'm probably VERY biased.

Sure the copyright office can prove to that form. It gives a registration to the first one filing for it for a work (either an author filing for him/herself or a publisher filing for the author--or for itself in a work-for-hire arrangement). That's tangible form of ownership in the United States. I don't see the problem you raise.

And no, Patent Law is a breeze compared to Copyright Law. Patent Law actually has established some standards/case precedence you can point to. Copyright Law has established practically nothing in the way of guidelines. We're still in the "testing the edges to see what will pass" in almost every area of Copyright Law except for songs--and even there, there's more unknown and even more a "best-guess" assumption than there is a "you can do this and you can't do that." Very little case precedence to point to at all.