Controlling Characters, Help!

[DearEmma]

Thank you all. You've clarified for me what happened in the process. My character as she developed is a person who would rather get a gun than have sex with someone to shut them up. If I made her have sex with this guy now it would just be gross and there would be nothing erotic there anyway. So I'm going with the gun and there's enough there to make the scene hot.

I did have an outline, but dr mabeuse made a good point that plots and characters can develop separately and I always like to keep an open mind and let the character tell the story. As I originally posted it does turn out to be a good story. I just didn't want to disappoint the readers with less sex, but the readers will probably enjoy when she goes all Buffy on the unsuspecting dude who thinks he's gonna get laid. They might even cheer.

But lesson learned about finishing before I submit, even though I'd still have the same challenges there would be considerably less pressure.

Thanks again for all your insight.

 

[TxRad]

In most peoples lives the worst protagonist they ever meet is between their ears. Most lives are dull and boring for the most part and that doesn't bode well for stories and novels. IMHO anyway.

 

[driphoney]

That's the way it works for me. Short story or novel. It doesn't matter. Since I've sold all three novels, I guess it works for publishers also.

Come over here and let me rub against you. Whatever you got, I need some of that.

So, the Great Novel, therefore, is perhaps that story that manages to deliver complex characters and intricate plot ... oh, and a deeper message. Where does message fold into the story?

 

[sr71plt]

In most peoples lives the worst protagonist they ever meet is between their ears. Most lives are dull and boring for the most part and that doesn't bode well for stories and novels. IMHO anyway.

There's this talent that good writers have. It's called imagination.

 

[TxRad]

There's this talent that good writers have. It's called imagination.

You've got that right.

 

[TxRad]

Come over here and let me rub against you. Whatever you got, I need some of that.

So, the Great Novel, therefore, is perhaps that story that manages to deliver complex characters and intricate plot ... oh, and a deeper message. Where does message fold into the story?

Message? We don't need no stinking message.

Those are extra if you want on the NY Times list.

 

[_Lynn_]

Emma, writing should always be fun, regardless if your story veers off in a direction you hadn't planned on. I agree with Jimmy on some points, (not his verbal abusiveness towards you, bad Jimmy) and agree with others on theirs as well.
You should always have a conceptual idea of what your story is about and don't deviate from it. If you've found that your character development has taken a new path, that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
You must make sure that the twist in the plot fits the idea of the story and doesn't detract from it's intended purpose. This can lead to more chapters having to be written to explain it and conclude it in the story. KISS is a good rule to follow when this happens and don't let it side-track your story to another level.
Erotic writing comes in many shapes and forms and as long as this new development fits in to what the character's personality is established as, it can work. If it doesn't, save it as a plot bunny for another one. I've had this happen to me as well and I'm quite sure most other writers too.
I agree whole-heartedly with writing for yourself and not your readers. Your job is to write, theirs to read. Stay focused and in control of your developments and don't let yourself be dissuaded by comments or suggestions.
It's your story. Write it, and write it well.

Says who? Where?

There's this talent that good writers have. It's called imagination.

I have that.

 

[lance gt]

Says who? Where?

What was wrong with the advice I gave, Lynn.

 

[_Lynn_]

What was wrong with the advice I gave, Lynn.

Just one from yours:

You should always have a conceptual idea of what your story is about and don't deviate from it.

 

[Katyusha]

Let your characters do what they will. When I write, if I try to direct the plot or the characters, I get stuck. The story just won't go anywhere. When I let them flow, the story creates itself. Personally, I like it when my characters and my plot surprise me.

 

[sophia jane]

Just one from yours:

You should always have a conceptual idea of what your story is about and don't deviate from it.

I think where there is some confusion is in the wording people are using (and perceptions of those phrases)- his "conceptual idea" is, from my understanding, quite different than a detailed plot. It is important to have some idea what your story is about before you sit down. Should you know what is going to happen, exactly, in every chapter before you start writing? I don't think so. But you should have a "conceptual idea."
I think Zoot put it best of everyone, honestly. There's a big difference between losing control of a story and giving characters some room, within your general conceptual idea, to move around.

I do think that the best advice Emma has gotten, tho, is in not posting chapters of anything til the thing is done. Not because she's done anything wrong. It sounds like she actually may be developing a better story than what she set out to do because she's developing characters. But it's a good idea because it does, in fact, take the pressure off of pleasing everyone with each individual chapter.

 

[driphoney]

Message? We don't need no stinking message.

Those are extra if you want on the NY Times list.

Ahh. Phew! I'm just hoping someday to get more than 30 readers!

 

[lance gt]

Just one from yours:

You should always have a conceptual idea of what your story is about and don't deviate from it.

Guilty

 

[Katyusha]

Life meanders. Why shouldn't a story? I never outline. I do admit to going back to the beginning when I'm finished in an attempt to make the story coherent. But if the characters have their own ideas of how a story should go, how much different is that from children? Just because you start something doesn't put you in control of it throughout its lifetime.

LOL I remember going back through the story I wrote for NaNo last year and laughing at the continuity errors. That can always be amusing.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

In most peoples lives the worst protagonist they ever meet is between their ears. Most lives are dull and boring for the most part and that doesn't bode well for stories and novels. IMHO anyway.

Very true. You truly need situational and circumstantial and experiential diversity to craft stories from.

I thought of this today in association with the news story about the guy in a coma for 23 years (but conscious! the whole time). It will make a great story but a terrible book cuz the guy did the same shit for 23 straight years in a row.

 

[sr71plt]

I think where there is some confusion is in the wording people are using (and perceptions of those phrases)- his "conceptual idea" is, from my understanding, quite different than a detailed plot.

I don't see any confusion at all. I reject "should not deviate from it" statement no matter whether you are applying it to a conceptual idea or a detailed plot or to the names of the characters or the shoes they are wearing (and I posted so already). Any of those can be changed during the writing process. A story isn't done until it has been written and reviewed and you can make any changes during that time that you jolly well want to. And even after it's published, if you think of another tangent that would have been better to go off on, you can just write a whole new story. This sort of limitation is just silly.

 

[TxRad]

Very true. You truly need situational and circumstantial and experiential diversity to craft stories from.

I thought of this today in association with the news story about the guy in a coma for 23 years (but conscious! the whole time). It will make a great story but a terrible book cuz the guy did the same shit for 23 straight years in a row.

Not necessarily. I wrote a fast story that kept bugging me, just to get it out of my head, and posted it here. It's in scifi I think. A guy is caught in a spaceship crash on an alien planet. The crew puts him outside to die. To make a long story short, he goes into suspended animation for a hundred years or so and lives to be rescued.

I'm using that story for a basis for a novel. The mental life he led while he was out. There is nothing boring as long as you can run with it in one direction or the other. twists and leaps of faith are what stories are made of after all. there is nothing new under the sun.

 

[Freefall_mc]

Emma, thank you for asking this question.

 

[3113]

Says who? Where?

Hey, I'll second the "must have fun" part. Which is not to say that all aspects of writing will always be fun (edit, edit, edit). Sometimes there's chore work to be done. But when there is no fun at all in writing anything, in creating characters and a story, something has gone wrong.

We're storytellers, and we need to enjoy telling the story or else our readers likely won't enjoy reading it. There are books out there I've read where you can tell that the writer was writing it because they were under contract (sequels suffer from this), not because they wanted or enjoyed the story they were creating. And they don't read well.

That's not to say that having fun writing something guarantees it'll be brilliant and wonderful, but it at least will be written with enthusiasm and joy. That's half the battle to getting it out of your head and onto the page (or computer as it were).

 

[SweetWitch]

First, I admit it's all my fault. I should have written the entire story before I submitted the first part. But I had never written an erotic story before and thought I'd submit the first chapter and see if people liked it and decide whether I should continue.

First of all, who are you writing for? If you're writing for the masses, you're going to piss someone off. If you're writing for yourself, you only have you to disappoint.

Second, there's a challenge here. Your main character has shown a side of herself that you hadn't seen before. The trick isn't to try to force her back into the tidy 2-dimensional description that you started with. That was just an idea you had in the beginning. She has grown beyond that idea and has gained substance.

The challenge is how to make the story work. She’s grown a dark side. We all have them. It’s our childhoods, early adult lives and such that develop that dark side. How did she get this way? What made her so angry and desperate that she would turn to violence? Why is she so scared? Did your bad guy trigger a memory, a thought, a feeling? What’s her back story?

When you answer those questions, the story will fit together and be better than when you started.

 

[Bianca_Sommerland]

Lots of good advice. My only question would be, now that you know the character better, does she fit in the story at all?

If she does, cool. Best of luck. If not then maybe she doesn't belong there.

Just my two cents, but it is possible, at times, to miscast your story (which I think SR mentioned). I have all kinds of different characters. If I shoved them together most of them would end up dead. Two thirds of them I wouldn't even dream of putting near a romance scene unless there partner had a steel set.

There is always room to move around in a story, even with an outline. Just look at movies. The script is there, the scenery is there, who is delivering the performance makes all the difference.

Depends what you want from the story I guess. If you're writing for fun than obviously you can go in whatever direction you want. Since you asked I guess you want to take it up a notch. Hope you got what you needed.

 

[sophia jane]

I don't see any confusion at all. I reject "should not deviate from it" statement no matter whether you are applying it to a conceptual idea or a detailed plot or to the names of the characters or the shoes they are wearing (and I posted so already).

I actually agree with you, and I'll confess that in quoting his statement and in my point I was actually focusing on the "conceptual" part of his statement and not the no deviation part, and it wasn't until after I stepped away and looked back at his statement that I picked up on that tidbit. Which was crappy of me, esp since I don't agree with the no deviating aspect. I had seen several responses that seemed like semantical arguments, rather than substantial ones and that was what I was trying to get across.

I think you need to have a general idea what you're writing about, but yeah, you have to be flexible, not to the point of writing a crappy meandering story, but flexible enough to realize when things need to deviate to make it better.

 

[sr71plt]

I just ran across this in Stephen King's On Writing, and thought it weighed in on an aspect of the discussion of this thread (and gives at least tertiary support to the rambling of life element VM mentioned):

"I won't try to convince you that I've never plotted any more than I'd try to convince you that I've never told a lie, but I do both as infrequently as possible. I distrust plot for two reasons: first, because our lives are largely plotless, even when you add in all our reasonable precautions and careful planning; and second, because I believe plotting and the spontaneity of real creation aren't compatible. It's best that I be as clear about this as I can--I want you to understand that my basic belief about the making of stories is that they pretty much make themselves. The job of the writer is to give them a place to grow (and to transcribe them, of course)."

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

“I guarantee you that no modern story scheme, even plotlessness, will give a reader genuine satisfaction, unless one of those old fashioned plots is smuggled in somewhere. I don’t praise plots as accurate representations of life, but as ways to keep the reader reading.” Kurt Vonnegut

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SWEETWITCH SEZ: It’s our childhoods, early adult lives and such that develop that dark side.

I SAY: Ummmm, maybe. Might be a brain tumor. Stress will certainly expose our demons.