Conservatism will be a non-entity by 2050

[Freefall_mc]

We are reformers in spring and summer; in autumn and winter we stand by the old; reformers in the morning, conservers at night. Reform is affirmative, conservatism negative; conservatism goes for comfort, reform for truth.

- Ralph Waldo Emerson

 

[mikey2much]

We are on the way down. James shut your eyes and enjoy the ride

You feel that whaqt we have is working? If that is the case then I see no reason to continiue the conversation. Most people on this thread concede that we are facing a problem that really needs out attention. We feel that our country is standing on the brink of becoming a third world banana republic. But I guess that everything is rosey where you are.

Perception is everything. Enjoy your bliss.

 

[Liar]

BLACK JACK

I concede that youre a natural expert in basketball but you obviously cant wrap your brain around the core of conservatism, which is: I'm sticking with what works rather than chase your mirages and rainbows.

Unfortunately it's been evident that conservatives of late also have a chronic inability to concede when stuff doesn't work.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Unfortunately it's been evident that conservatives of late also have a chronic inability to concede when stuff doesn't work.

I personally dont claim infallability, and I commit plenty of outrages that make conservatives cringe & wince. Conservatism is no license to sit in shit and whine. When things dont work, you gotta try something else.

And assumptions are the foundation of the problem. We conservatives believe that nuthin else can ever work as well, and the Usual Suspects believe anything else will always work better.

 

[Pure]

note to jac

there are lots of undefined terms, here [see below]. the article actually talks about whites losing majority status. this has various ramifications, some, the opposite to what you-or dee zire-- suggest. black and hispanic people are quite conservative around gay issues, for example. hispanics are generally Catholics; some are highly secularized, but many not--e.g. former peasants from Guatemala.

"conservatives", implying those suspicious of social changes and imaginative plans for heaven on earth, and who recognize human selfishness and evil are not going to disappear.

as to the religious right, and the far right 'tea baggers,' i suspect they'll continue to thrive as 10-20% of the electorate. i see no reason for them to disappear, and insofar as lots are racist, the white minority status is going to inflame them. since they are, in many ways, a solid bloc, politicians will continue to court them.---look at the increasing number of congresspersons, even senators, who are cozing up to the tea baggers.

the terms we need are 'nativism' and 'know nothing ism' and even xenophobia; these are thriving in a small but significant way, and you show no evidence to the contrary. these people clamor about non anglo and non xian migrants or "illegals." some of the 'downhill' phenomena mentioned above, e.g. by Mikey2, e.g. loss of manufacturing jobs, esp unionized ones, are going to FEED, not lessen nativism. "these wetbacks are taking our jobs!"

if one want to project, i suggest looking at california and new york. oddly enough, Republicans, though of a special type, continue to win elections.

PS: speaking of the future, it's perhaps more plausible to say that liberalism, if not now dead, will be so in 20 years. defined by the right as 'far left,' they are vanishing: was ted kennedy the last?
hillary and even moreso obama, are centrists. they "triangulate" the hell out of any clear liberal position [note, obama on gay marriage]. you only need look at how the healthcare bill is being shaped, to see the end of Ted Kennedy type, New England liberalism. the new democrats, like their repug brothers are entirely cosy with the dominant groups, such as large insurance companies, banks, HMOs, big pharma, and so on.





le jacq: Conservatism will be a non-entity by 2050
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White Americans who represent 95% or more of America's Republican voters and 99% of America's townhall guntoting teabaggers, will be a minority by 2050.

Conservatism has almost no reach outside white America, and almost no relevance at all in any other civilized nation.

By 2050 it's totally over for this movement.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...y_N.htm?csp=34

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

POPPYCOCK

We of the South have always thrived where we were the smallest of minorities. What matters is who holds the whip.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

there are lots of undefined terms, here [see below]. the article actually talks about whites losing majority status. this has various ramifications, some, the opposite to what you-or dee zire-- suggest. black and hispanic people are quite conservative around gay issues, for example. hispanics are generally Catholics; some are highly secularized, but many not--e.g. former peasants from Guatemala.

But they are the biggest supporters of many liberal issues: like bringing our troops home, universal health care, laws against discrimination, welfare, global warming, globalist trade issues, and a whole host of other majorly liberal causes (which I've partially listed twice now).

"conservatives", implying those suspicious of social changes and imaginative plans for heaven on earth, and who recognize human selfishness and evil are not going to disappear.

Yeah, but I don't know of any blacks, hispanics or Asians trying to build a fence to block out Mexico.

as to the religious right, and the far right 'tea baggers,' i suspect they'll continue to thrive as 10-20% of the electorate. i see no reason for them to disappear, and insofar as lots are racist, the white minority status is going to inflame them. since they are, in many ways, a solid bloc, politicians will continue to court them.---look at the increasing number of congresspersons, even senators, who are cozing up to the tea baggers.

They will get louder as they get smaller in size. Everyone has seen these guys; they have no appeal outside the caucasian group.

the terms we need are 'nativism' and 'know nothing ism' and even xenophobia; these are thriving in a small but significant way, and you show no evidence to the contrary.

Yes, but where among the non-white population is xenophobia thriving?

these people clamor about non anglo and non xian migrants or "illegals."

And where are there any black, hispanic, Asians, etc. clamoring about this?

The Republicans tread lightly with immigration issues for fear of alienating Hispanic voters.

some of the 'downhill' phenomena mentioned above, e.g. by Mikey2, e.g. loss of manufacturing jobs, esp unionized ones, are going to FEED, not lessen nativism. "these wetbacks are taking our jobs!"

Who aside from caucasians do you see copping this attitude?

if one want to project, i suggest looking at california and new york. oddly enough, Republicans, though of a special type, continue to win elections.

Last I checked the majority of our elected officials are Democrats; as are our Congresscritters and both our US Senators. We have a Republican Governor but that goes back and forth all the time. We're a solid Blue State with a few Red counties. Hell, the mighty iconic B1 Bob Bornan lost the major California Republican stronghold of Orange County to a Hispanic woman. A Democrat.

PS: speaking of the future, it's perhaps more plausible to say that liberalism, if not now dead, will be so in 20 years. defined by the right as 'far left,' they are vanishing: was ted kennedy the last?

If you believe this then please answer me:

When whites become a minority in America, who will be left to:
1) oppose universal health care
2) keep our troops in Afghanistan or Iraq
3) support sending more jobs overseas
4) defend racial discrimination
5) build a fence to block off Mexico
6) defend globalism
7) defend the "War on Terror"
8) oppose efforts to stop global warming
9) oppose environmentalism in general
10) welfare for the poor

Do you see any of that in the black, hispanic or Asian groups?

hillary and even moreso obama, are centrists. they "triangulate" the hell out of any clear liberal position [note, obama on gay marriage]. you only need look at how the healthcare bill is being shaped, to see the end of Ted Kennedy type, New England liberalism. the new democrats, like their repug brothers are entirely cosy with the dominant groups, such as large insurance companies, banks, HMOs, big pharma, and so on.

They're being forced to back down on the health care issue by the teabagger/Republican/Blue Dog coalition.

A coalition, mind you, that is almost completely devoid of blacks, hispanics or Asian support.

 

[colddiesel]

Yes, but where among the non-white population is xenophobia thriving?

In what passes for a brain in the entity known as le Jaqueloopy!


.

My Bolds inserted in quote

In addition

1 Asians, particularly Japanese and Koreans are the most xenophobic people on the planet.

2 Hispanics are Caucasians. They aspire to the same values.

3 So many of the Blacks are in jail. They'll never control anything.

So much for le Jaqueloopy's coalition of minorities.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

My idiocy inserted in quote

In addition

1 Asians, particularly Japanese and Koreans are the most xenophobic people on the planet.

And how did they vote this last election season? What, you made a fool of yourself again?

2 Hispanics are Caucasians. They aspire to the same values.

Uh, no they don't aspire to the same values. Look at how Hispanics voted the last time for just one reason why you don't know what you're talking about.

And Hispanics are not Caucasians either, nimrod. They are often mixed with people who came from Spain, and were referred to in the past as Mestizo. They are primarily native American/south American with some Spanish mixed in. Hispanics are generally easily told apart from Caucasians, and their ancestry is also quite different.

What the fuck were you doing in history class anyway? Shoving your head up your ass in the back of the class for self gratification?

Go ahead, I challenge you - find documentation that shows me to be wrong on this. Show us links to anything that says Hispanics are Caucasians. Oh wait, you can't. You'd rather hurl personal attacks and then wait for the Author's Hangout to bitch and moan when you get it right back, along with your ass on a silver platter.

3 So many of the Blacks are in jail. They'll never control anything.

Funny, how one runs the country. Moron.

You should try using brains for something besides a cotton candy dispenser for once.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

BLACK JACQUE

Hispanic is an ethnic group, not a racial group.

 

[Boxlicker101]

A lot of this depends on the definition of "Conservative." Generally speaking, it is a person who advocates little government interference in everyday life. A true conservative would consider gay marriage to be the business of the people involved, and not his or her, so would do nothing to oppose it. Opposition to gay marriage is largely religion based and has nothing to do with political beliefs in general.

Hispanic is an ethnicity, not a race. Generally speaking, the division that appears on questionaires and census forms, etc. is "Hispanic" and "Non-Hispanic Caucasian." The latter will eventually cease to be a majority, but will continue to be a plurality for quite a while.

"Hispanic" is not a good word anyhow, because that would exclude Brazilians. Perhaps the term, if one is needed, should be "Iberian-Americans." Personally, I do not like such terms anyhow.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

A lot of this depends on the definition of "Conservative." Generally speaking, it is a person who advocates little government interference in everyday life. A true conservative would consider gay marriage to be the business of the people involved, and not his or her, so would do nothing to oppose it. Opposition to gay marriage is largely religion based and has nothing to do with political beliefs in general.

By 2050 what do you think will come of that under 30 crowd of which 60% currently favor gay marriage? I believe that those numbers will be similar in the Hispanic voting group.

Hispanic is an ethnicity, not a race. Generally speaking, the division that appears on questionaires and census forms, etc. is "Hispanic" and "Non-Hispanic Caucasian."

How does this support the "Hispanics are Caucasians" claim?

 

[JackLuis]

By 2050 what do you think will come of that under 30 crowd of which 60% currently favor gay marriage? I believe that those numbers will be similar in the Hispanic voting group.


How does this support the "Hispanics are Caucasians" claim?

Hispanic is a language/cultural differentiation.

Caucasian is a genetic differentiation.

Totally separate, but I agree the rapid growth of the Baby boomers offspring and all the immigration over the last 50 years has shifted the age balance.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Hispanic is a language/cultural differentiation.

Caucasian is a genetic differentiation.

Totally separate, but I agree the rapid growth of the Baby boomers offspring and all the immigration over the last 50 years has shifted the age balance.

So since Hispanic is a language/cultural thing and Caucasian is a genetic thing, the two naturally are NOT the same. One is apples and the other is oranges. Genetics and culture/language are not the same thing, right? Logically speaking, I mean.

So basically, for "Hispanics are Caucasians" to hold true, genetics has to be the same thing as language and culture.

Please explain the illogic in how I'm reasoning this out.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
A lot of this depends on the definition of "Conservative." Generally speaking, it is a person who advocates little government interference in everyday life. A true conservative would consider gay marriage to be the business of the people involved, and not his or her, so would do nothing to oppose it. Opposition to gay marriage is largely religion based and has nothing to do with political beliefs in general.

By 2050 what do you think will come of that under 30 crowd of which 60% currently favor gay marriage? I believe that those numbers will be similar in the Hispanic voting group.

Some of them will change their minds but, in forty years, I believe most of the population will not oppose gay marriage. I don't expect to be around by then, but I am not opposed to it now, believing it is nobody's business but the two people involved. Hispanics (or Iberian-Americans) are largely Catholic, and that faith is hierarchical and generally opposed to gay marriage, so the majority of Hispanics will follow their religious instruction and oppose it.

Hispanic is an ethnicity, not a race. Generally speaking, the division that appears on questionaires and census forms, etc. is "Hispanic" and "Non-Hispanic Caucasian."

How does this support the "Hispanics are Caucasians" claim?

"Hispanic" is a division of Caucasian, as is German, Italian, Greek, etc. It is neither a language nor a culture, but is strictly an ethnicity. Some Hispanics, and other European ethnicities speak nothing but English. Some follow the cultural mores of their ancestors and some do not. Language and culture are matters of individual choices but ethnicity is not.

 

[SlickTony]

I did my bit towards the beiging of America. Couldn't do any more. I am not sure I'll be around by 2050, anyway.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

"Hispanic" is a division of Caucasian

I knew that was coming. I knew it, I waited and waited and I waited.

So what about black Hispanics? Are they also a division of the Caucasian race? And what about the Native American peoples from Mexico and the lower regions (above Brazil) who also fall under this category?

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
"Hispanic" is a division of Caucasian

I knew that was coming. I knew it, I waited and waited and I waited.

So what about black Hispanics? Are they also a division of the Caucasian race? And what about the Native American peoples from Mexico and the lower regions (above Brazil) who also fall under this category?

"Black Hispanics" seems to be an oxymoron. As for the Native American people in Mexico and Central or South America, if some of them come to the USA, they would be Native Americans. If they stay where they are, they are outside the subject of this thread.

 

[DeeZire]

Back to the original topic: The latest polling data gives Palin a 46% favorability rating, which is just a hair less than Obama's job approval rating. I think I'm going to be sick now.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Back to the original topic: The latest polling data gives Palin a 46% favorability rating, which is just a hair less than Obama's job approval rating. I think I'm going to be sick now.

When she was gov. of Alaska, the people of the state rated her quite highly. As for what she has been doing for the last six months or so, what's to rate? She's being interviewed, holding book signings and appearing on TV shows. Although she is comporting herself well and is highly telegenic, how can you grade her on those things?

I still say, she will run for senator in the primaries next year against an incumbent Rep. and then we shall see how she does.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I knew that was coming. I knew it, I waited and waited and I waited.

So what about black Hispanics? Are they also a division of the Caucasian race? And what about the Native American peoples from Mexico and the lower regions (above Brazil) who also fall under this category?

BLACK JACQUE

Youre gonna love this...African-Americans are (hee hee) ethnic Europeans. Its true.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
"Hispanic" is a division of Caucasian




"Black Hispanics" seems to be an oxymoron. As for the Native American people in Mexico and Central or South America, if some of them come to the USA, they would be Native Americans. If they stay where they are, they are outside the subject of this thread.

But they don't stay "down there". A lot of them immigrate here. Who do you think those guys are who come from Mexico? In fact, all of the indigenous people all over these 2 continents are native Americans; former Asiatic people who migrated here.

But Caucasian? Hardly. Only by the intrusion of Spanish blood.

Do you really think Hispanics will ever oppose immigration?


As for black Hispanics, do I really need to google some information on that? That could be a bit... embarrassing for anyone who calls them an oxymoron.

 

[Boota]

Conservatism will always be around, and that's good. What they are talking about has to be the neo con movement, which is fascism. And that will always be there, too. But it will go back to the fringes where it belongs.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'm a fascist, neo-cons arent fascist. Theyre store clerks.

Fascists dont care what you do so long as you dont do it on the street or in front of children.

 

[Boota]

That doesn't sound like fascism to me. The Nazis were fascists and they sure fucking cared about a lot more than that.