Connection between BDSM interests and history of sexual abuse

taciturnTalia

Virgin
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
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{{With the following post I seemed to hit a real button with people. I guess a lot of people have been told that their lifestyle isnt healthy and are angry that I implied it as well. It really wasnt what I meant. I phrased it hypothetically-- however I was asking because of my personal history with sexual abuse.
I just wanted to know how I can be sure that my interests are just a part of who I am instead of stemming from my abuse?}}



From the mouths of vanilla people --I’ve heard tell that many women that have submissive tendencies are survivors of sexual assault or abuse.

I’d like to assume for a moment that there can be a correlation (not that it is true for everyone- just that it could be true for some).

I have a few ideas about it that I’d like to kick around- as well as concerns I’d like to hear everyone’s input on.

I was thinking about what would motivate a woman that has been through sexual trauma to pursue BDSM later on.

What I came up with is that in sexual assault the victim has no control, not consent, no feeling of safety or trust. This can make sex a very scary thing later on. There can be even further confusion if despite the trauma of the incident there was some sexual pleasure derived from the assault. (After all friction is friction...)

My train of thought is that what better way for a woman to work through her fears than by to reenact the traumatic situation with a partner that can be trusted, in a situation where she can choose not to participate?

My concerns here are twofold. First of all many women that have been through sexual trauma become depressed or can have post traumatic stress disorder—considering this- it is not unreasonable to think that some of these women may exhibit self destructive behavior.

So how can the line be adequately drawn between healing sexual exploration- and straight out self abuse? (even if some one else is the one technically hurting you I still consider it self abuse if you’re choosing to put yourself in that situation) This question is not only something for the victims to think about— but also their partners.

As the partner to someone with this history you have to tread carefully. What if you inadvertently contribute to their mental illness? The assumption is that your partner is ABLE to say when they’ve hit their limit and decide when its time for them to stop and leave. Someone feeling suicidal- or in troughs of a PTSD flashback- they may NOT be able to say ‘when’.

Secondly- while I understand healing must take place for survivors of sexual abuse- it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think that the fun a person might have later on is in reaction to something negative.

Thoughts?
 
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*yawns*

Edit, before people whine I didn't write enough:

Don't you think this as your very first topic is a bit.. weird? Did you think:"Hey, I think all subs are mentally ill, let's go to literotica and ask if this is true!"
Yeah, sure. So what's your other Lit name?
 
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*ouch*

Don't you think this as your very first topic is a bit.. weird? Did you think:"Hey, I think all subs are mentally ill, let's go to literotica and ask if this is true!"
Yeah, sure. So what's your other Lit name?


If I gave the impression that I think ALL subs are mentally ill- please understand that was NOT what I meant to infer.

I don't have another lit name. I'm just being me.

I can understand why you might feel that way- I'm not asking because I think other people are mentally ill but because I know I AM. I spoke about it hypothectically because I wanted outside input on my internal dialogue- rather than have a focus on personal traumas.
 
I'm submissive and have not experienced any sort of abuse, sexual or otherwise. I'm also pretty sure I don't have a mental illness.

That answer your question?
 
From the mouths of vanilla people --I’ve heard tell that many women that have submissive tendencies are survivors of sexual assault or abuse.

I’d like to assume for a moment that there can be a correlation (not that it is true for everyone- just that it could be true for some).

I have a few ideas about it that I’d like to kick around- as well as concerns I’d like to hear everyone’s input on.

I was thinking about what would motivate a woman that has been through sexual trauma to pursue BDSM later on.

What I came up with is that in sexual assault the victim has no control, not consent, no feeling of safety or trust. This can make sex a very scary thing later on. There can be even further confusion if despite the trauma of the incident there was some sexual pleasure derived from the assault. (After all friction is friction...)

My train of thought is that what better way for a woman to work through her fears than by to reenact the traumatic situation with a partner that can be trusted, in a situation where she can choose not to participate?

My concerns here are twofold. First of all many women that have been through sexual trauma become depressed or can have post traumatic stress disorder—considering this- it is not unreasonable to think that some of these women may exhibit self destructive behavior.

So how can the line be adequately drawn between healing sexual exploration- and straight out self abuse? (even if some one else is the one technically hurting you I still consider it self abuse if you’re choosing to put yourself in that situation) This question is not only something for the victims to think about— but also their partners.

As the partner to someone with this history you have to tread carefully. What if you inadvertently contribute to their mental illness? The assumption is that your partner is ABLE to say when they’ve hit their limit and decide when its time for them to stop and leave. Someone feeling suicidal- or in troughs of a PTSD flashback- they may NOT be able to say ‘when’.

Secondly- while I understand healing must take place for survivors of sexual abuse- it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think that the fun a person might have later on is in reaction to something negative.

Thoughts?

Welcome to the BDSM Forum you may find these following links of assistance as well as any discussions that are pursued on this thread, specificly as this line of inquiry has been rather prevalent of late.

BDSM Library

BDSM Library - Abuse / Domestic Violence referenced threads

Most recent thread covering Potential Abuse Issues
Question - Does BDSM facilitate a haven for potential 'abusers' ?


Addional Links :

Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network

The White Ribbon Campaign

National Leather Association - Domestic Violence Project

National Domestic Violence Hotline

Crisis Support Network

Battered Men - The Hidden Side of Domestic Violence

Domestic Violence in the S/M Community


Woman's Aid - Why doesn't she leave ?

You will also find via the BDSM Library Link above referenced thread areas covering Childhood and Health - Mental .

Please don't hesitate to private message me if you require further assistance regards the Library.

Best of Luck :rose:
 
I am not going to speak to all that you brought up in your post, but will say this in regards to the blow section of your post.


"As the partner to someone with this history you have to tread carefully. What if you inadvertently contribute to their mental illness? The assumption is that your partner is ABLE to say when they’ve hit their limit and decide when its time for them to stop and leave. Someone feeling suicidal- or in troughs of a PTSD flashback- they may NOT be able to say ‘when’."

The misconception or assumption is incorrect in regards to safewords, their purpose and their use. Though some may use them in accordance with your view, many do not see safewords as a safety net which remove any responsibility from the top. In other words, regardless of wheather a bottom has a safe word or not and wheather they choose to use them or not does not absolve the top for the responsibility for the bottom's safety, emotional and physical.

I would think that those in a relationship, would know about such details and personal history and it would always be something they are prepared for or at least in thee back of their mind.

As to professional or causal partners that engage in play, I am not completely sure, but do know the smart ones take precautions.

I am sure there are some who have been sexually assaulted in some way and have turned to BDSM for various reasons, to which I say so what. I also know that there are many who have never expereinced any sexual assault and choose BDSM of their own free will.

It is my belief that BDSM sexuality has methods and ways within it that are better able to deal in some ways with effects and baggage of sexual assault than say vanilla ones. I am not saying hey, BDSM is the answer to help someone through sexual assault type problems, what I am saying is, those I know who have experienced those things and who have turned to BDSM seem to have found a way to cope, and over come the things of their past and go on to live healthy and fulfilled lives.

But then I am just sprouting my opinion here.

As to who you are or why you are here. We often get a lot of people doing research and other such things. It gets obvious by the subject matter choosen, the technical level of the questions being asked, and just enough ignorance or misconception trhown to make it all transparent enough. Regardless of who you are or why your here, I hope my answer gives you something to think about or was helpful.
 
Oh hey look! Its that cute librarian...grinz :rose:

Thanks for providing our new visitor with informative links.
 
Oh so wait, you were talking about yourself?

Yes, sorry if I offended you.

I REALLY REALLY didn't mean to make everyone think I'm saying ALL subs are crazy.

*Heavy sigh* this is why I don't like asking questions. I'm forever upsetting someone.

I just wanted to know if there are other sexual assualt survivors that have been drawn to BDSM and their thoughts on any possible corrilation.

How does one reconcile what is obviously something so pleasurable with something so horrific?

I have worked with counslers and I have been maintaining my mental health; life and sex aren't scary anymore--- but I still like the rough stuff. ;)

I used to think that makes me fucked up. I don't think there is something wrong with me anymore. I'm just trying to analyze it intellectually.
 
Thank you for taking my question at face value.


As to who you are or why you are here. We often get a lot of people doing research and other such things. It gets obvious by the subject matter choosen, the technical level of the questions being asked, and just enough ignorance or misconception trhown to make it all transparent enough. Regardless of who you are or why your here, I hope my answer gives you something to think about or was helpful.

I have to say that I'm a little disappointed with the general response of anger and mistrust.
Yes I'm ignorant of how other BDSM relationships work.
Yes I'm asking technical questions.

I'm asking because I don't know. I don't know about how other people do things, or came into this part of their path.

I'm not with an experienced Dom, nor have I ever been. I've just explored my inclinations with my loving partner. Part of that exploration brought me here.

I'm sorry for my obvious faux pas.
 
If I gave the impression that I think ALL subs are mentally ill- please understand that was NOT what I meant to infer.

I don't have another lit name. I'm just being me.

I can understand why you might feel that way- I'm not asking because I think other people are mentally ill but because I know I AM. I spoke about it hypothetically because I wanted outside input on my internal dialogue- rather than have a focus on personal traumas.

Please disregard this poster, Talia. He is always stirring the pot because he 1. has no one to give him any sort of positive affirmation or affection and 2. would prefer to be a total wanker than offer any sort of positive thought or helpful assistance to someone who is obviously looking for some answers. Bitter is as bitter does.

Oh so wait, you were talking about yourself?

I don't think the OP was necessarily talking about him or herself even though they have admitted to their own illness. I think they were more interested in picking the minds of more educated folks for input and dialog. :)

ETA: oh, mebbe they were. Still I don't think this was an attack or a means to speak ill of anyone.
 
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I think they were more interested in picking the minds of more educated folks for input and dialog. :)

Why the fuck did you answer then? Did she ask about shoes?

Despite this, you wrote as much about the topic as I did. I really hope hypocrites get their own hell.
 
Ok, I'm in the "never abused physically/mentally/emotionally/sexually at any time in the past" camp, so I can't help you there. But I will say that you don't have to be an abuse survivor or have PTSD to suffer from an inability to say when you've hit your limit(s). It happens to the best of us occasionally.

What you have to do is make sure that you choose a partner who's not all Billy Joe Badass about "I'll only stop if you safeword, and if you don't safeword, even if I see you freaking out, I'm not going to stop." Most PYLs with practical experience are not going to do something silly like that. It goes along with the whole idea of "If you break your toys, you can't play with them anymore."

So my advice is if/when you decide to pursue a relationship with a dominant person, be sure that you're totally up front with that person about the whys and wherefores of everything. Basically, your well-being is at stake, and this is NOT the time to be cute and coy. On the other hand, a BDSM relationship is not a substitute for therapy. It's fine if you want to become involved in one because you think you'll enjoy it, but if you think it'll cure all your problems, that's not going to be the case. It's like any other relationship. You have to have your head screwed on straight before you go dragging other people into it. ;)
 
It's like any other relationship.

Quoted for truth.

Didn't make up my mind about the rest yet.


Hmm, I did.

I agree without the word "silly" in the posting. It's as valid to have this style as any other, as long as both are aware that this is the way its going.
 
Ok, I'm in the "never abused physically/mentally/emotionally/sexually at any time in the past" camp, so I can't help you there. But I will say that you don't have to be an abuse survivor or have PTSD to suffer from an inability to say when you've hit your limit(s). It happens to the best of us occasionally.

What you have to do is make sure that you choose a partner who's not all Billy Joe Badass about "I'll only stop if you safeword, and if you don't safeword, even if I see you freaking out, I'm not going to stop." Most PYLs with practical experience are not going to do something silly like that. It goes along with the whole idea of "If you break your toys, you can't play with them anymore."

So my advice is if/when you decide to pursue a relationship with a dominant person, be sure that you're totally up front with that person about the whys and wherefores of everything. Basically, your well-being is at stake, and this is NOT the time to be cute and coy. On the other hand, a BDSM relationship is not a substitute for therapy. It's fine if you want to become involved in one because you think you'll enjoy it, but if you think it'll cure all your problems, that's not going to be the case. It's like any other relationship. You have to have your head screwed on straight before you go dragging other people into it. ;)

Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!

Off to find calendar thread for this gem!
 
On the other hand, a BDSM relationship is not a substitute for therapy. It's fine if you want to become involved in one because you think you'll enjoy it, but if you think it'll cure all your problems, that's not going to be the case. It's like any other relationship. You have to have your head screwed on straight before you go dragging other people into it. ;)

100% agreement on that!

Okay- I am beginning to see some of my error here. When I implied that a Dom may not know when to back off a girl havnig some serious issues I was speaking from an experience that didn't have anything to do with a Dom.

(Off topic here- I'm having such a difficult time saying exactly what I mean. There doesn't seem to be a line drawn on this forum about what too much information is. Thats a new for me. I'm so used to self editing in mixed company- I'm going to have to cut that out to avoid further confusion...)

When I was still deeply damaged by my abuse I had some sexual experiences with vanilla partners that were too much for me. My mental leap was, "if vanilla sex can wig out someone dealing with trauma then BDSM would really wig them out."

But in retrospect I think the opposite may be true. A Dom- having more experience with pushing the boundries of exactly where pain and pleasure meet-- would probably be better equiped to understand their sub's limits, trauma or no.

Of course please understand I'm talking out of my ass here. Like I said - I've got no history with an experienced Dom.
 
Quoted for truth.

Didn't make up my mind about the rest yet.


Hmm, I did.

I agree without the word "silly" in the posting. It's as valid to have this style as any other, as long as both are aware that this is the way its going.

Aherm. Correction. It's a "silly" approach in a relationship with someone with PTSD or whatever. That's what I was thinking when I wrote it, but looking back at it, I realize it doesn't read that way.

Note to self: proofread better. :rolleyes:
 
...Despite this, you wrote as much about the topic as I did. I really hope hypocrites get their own hell.

Interesting how you 'think' you know something and act as if you do when really you are just a sad pathetic withered disgusting excuse of a bag of refuse who really doesn't have a reason in this world so decides to troll the internet.

And who ever said I wasn't giving my own advice in private?



Grow. a. life.


(blocked)
 
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Interesting how you 'think' you know something and act as if you do when really you are just a sad pathetic withered disgusting excuse of a bag of refuse who really doesn't have a reason in this world so decides to troll the internet.

Tell me, what is your excuse to encourage me to hi-jack this thread further, instead of insulting me per pm? Shouldn't you be the better person?

And who ever said I wasn't giving my own advice in private?

Most likely the same person who told you that I didn't do this either.
 
Yes, sorry if I offended you.

I REALLY REALLY didn't mean to make everyone think I'm saying ALL subs are crazy.

*Heavy sigh* this is why I don't like asking questions. I'm forever upsetting someone.

I just wanted to know if there are other sexual assualt survivors that have been drawn to BDSM and their thoughts on any possible corrilation.

How does one reconcile what is obviously something so pleasurable with something so horrific?

I have worked with counslers and I have been maintaining my mental health; life and sex aren't scary anymore--- but I still like the rough stuff. ;)

I used to think that makes me fucked up. I don't think there is something wrong with me anymore. I'm just trying to analyze it intellectually.


Okay, its no problem really, I just didn't understand where you were coming from, and I probably read your post wrong in the first place. No harm done (hopefully by either party) :)

When I first started exploring the lifestyle I found a lot of articles and things talking about how an interest in BDSM always stems from such abuse in the past, to which I was just like, haha - okay. It makes sense to me that some people with harmful experiences in their past would be drawn to this sort of thing, but of course not all.

So again, sorry for jumping on your post, I assumed things about it that I shouldn't have.

I don't have any abuse or anything like that in my past, but I'm still curious whether or not there is something else that triggers my interest. It doesn't really bother me (well, maybe it does a little bit), and I don't think there is anything wrong with me, I'm just curious.

I'm glad you've worked it out, and I'll definitely follow this thread, because its a topic I'm interested in.
 
But in retrospect I think the opposite may be true. A Dom- having more experience with pushing the boundries of exactly where pain and pleasure meet-- would probably be better equiped to understand their sub's limits, trauma or no.

I think it depends on the people. Wheather they are a BDSM or vanilla, if they love or care about their partner and know of such past expereinces, they will be concious of such things and out of love for them take it into account.

I would say though that I agree if all things being equal, due to the fact that Doms go into a relationship with some kind of knowledge about limits and in general BDSM relationship tends to encourage communication regarding limits, it is proably true that a Dom would be better equipped, because the submissive is being open and forthright about her limits. You often do not get that kind of openess or two way communication concenring such things in a vanilla relationship and often the parties involve limp along in silence with the pain.

Don't read to o much into what I am saying, I am just simply saying that it is my expereince that those who engage in BDSM type relationships are more open about such things between their partners and thus are working together better when dealing with them. I agree with what Bunny said, one shouldn't approach BDSM with the notion that it is a replacement for therapy.
 
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I agree with what Bunny said, one shouldn't approach BDSM with the notion that it is a replacement for therapy.

Again I agree. Therapy is essential to healing from any trauma.

Therapy or no though- your therapist isnt going to be in the room with you when you decide to have sex again. The only people working through it at that time are going to be you and your partner.

I agree with earlier statements that a person needs to "have their head scewed on right" before getting involved with someone. However after a person's trust for men is so deeply damaged-- building that trust again with someone in the bedroom is going to be difficult no matter how far they've worked through it in therapy.

A person can intellectually understand that a person isnt going to hurt them and still be emotionally be unsure.

"Once bitten, twice shy."
 
Speaking from personal experience...

I'm not in the BDSM lifestyle, but I have noticed submissive tendencies in myself in "vanilla" sex. For example, I very rarely make the first move with a man, even with a partner I've had for a while; instead I wait for him to tell me or show me what he wants me to do. Or for him to do something to me. I prefer to have a man tell me what he wants, rather than drawing my own conclusions on what that might be, and I enjoy being told what to do.

Growing up, I was emotionally abused by a grandmother who constantly told me that I was "ugly and dirty and no man will ever want you". I was molested and raped on several different occasions by different perpetrators, two of whom told me I was a slut and wanted it. I was also married for 14 years to a man who constantly called me a slut or a whore if I enjoyed sex and got pissed of at me if I didn't.

Because of those factors, I learned not to ask for what I wanted. I learned that even if a man seemed to want me, he might get angry or reject me if I made any move. I need to have my partner tell me what to do and what he wants because that then gives me the license to do it. Since I left my ex-husband a little over a year ago, I've worked on becoming more comfortable with asking for or going after what I want sexually, but I still prefer it when my partner's in charge. For these reasons, the BDSM lifestyle intrigues me, hence my lurking on this board, but it isn't something I'm planning to explore right now because I understand I wouldn't be getting into it for healthy reasons at this point.

Talia, if there's any such thing as too much info here, I think I've just given it. lol
 
So again, sorry for jumping on your post, I assumed things about it that I shouldn't have.

I don't have any abuse or anything like that in my past, but I'm still curious whether or not there is something else that triggers my interest. It doesn't really bother me (well, maybe it does a little bit), and I don't think there is anything wrong with me, I'm just curious.
.

Thats okay, I don't think I was being super clear about what I meant anyway.

...No one that has responded has had any sexual abuse in their history so unfortunately I haven't gained much perspective into how others in my situation view things.

Looking online the only things I can find about survivors of sexual assualt and BDSM have assumed the assualt was a result of a "BDSM related" experience.

My interest in BDSM came later, and you might imagine that when you're told repeatedly that your interest in kink stems from your assualt it would make you turn around and take a look at yourself.

I would wonder, "Okay, sexual assault messed me up, made me suicidal, made me have these terrible flash backs. Could it be true that the assualt also makes me enjoy humiliation, pain, and control games?"

I didn't really think it was true, I feel resonably sure that my turn ons are simply a matter of preference that are just a part of who I am.

But if there is some kernal of truth to it-- I couldn't stand the idea that abuse could still be continuing to have any effect on my life.

Does that make more sense then what I said before?
 
From the mouths of vanilla people --I’ve heard tell that many women that have submissive tendencies are survivors of sexual assault or abuse.
From the mouths of vanilla people...Well consider the source. Is it likely that most vanilla people have researched and have valuable information about this lifestyle?
Yes, some of us have a history of sexual abuse, and some don't. I'd say there is no higher incidence in BDSM than there is anywhere else. Statistics say something like 1 in 5 girls is sexually abused by the time she is 8. So look in any group..and you're going to find some.



I’d like to assume for a moment that there can be a correlation (not that it is true for everyone- just that it could be true for some).

I have a few ideas about it that I’d like to kick around- as well as concerns I’d like to hear everyone’s input on.

I was thinking about what would motivate a woman that has been through sexual trauma to pursue BDSM later on.

What I came up with is that in sexual assault the victim has no control, not consent, no feeling of safety or trust. This can make sex a very scary thing later on. There can be even further confusion if despite the trauma of the incident there was some sexual pleasure derived from the assault. (After all friction is friction...)

My train of thought is that what better way for a woman to work through her fears than by to reenact the traumatic situation with a partner that can be trusted, in a situation where she can choose not to participate?

This is a subject I rarely ever talk about. Especially in such a public way..but I think you have some ideas that are incorrect..so I'll try to explain. I was brutally sexually abused from the time I was 5 until I was 8 by a friend of my father. I do not think that my past history has much if anything at all to do with my being submissive, or a painslut, or polyamorous for that matter. I have never tried to reenact a situation..and have no desire to do so. I've pretty much made peace with things and do not need a mock scene to take that control back. Maybe some do..but not all. I'm for sure the exception on that one.

My concerns here are twofold. First of all many women that have been through sexual trauma become depressed or can have post traumatic stress disorder—considering this- it is not unreasonable to think that some of these women may exhibit self destructive behavior.

Some of us deal with things better than others..I know that. I've never suffered from depression. Do I get depressed at times..sure, but so does everyone. I actually live a pretty normal life. The only symptom of PTSD I've ever had is occasional flashbacks..but I know what act brings them on..and I just don't participate in it. I am by no means self destructive. Wanting pain, wanting to be dominated..is not self destructive. Shit some vanilla relationships are more self destructive than D/s ones.

So how can the line be adequately drawn between healing sexual exploration- and straight out self abuse? (even if some one else is the one technically hurting you I still consider it self abuse if you’re choosing to put yourself in that situation) This question is not only something for the victims to think about— but also their partners.

Hmm..but what do you consider self abuse? Does the fact that I like pain..inflicted by myself, or another self abuse? Even if it's done in a controlled manner and as safely as possible?

As the partner to someone with this history you have to tread carefully. What if you inadvertently contribute to their mental illness? The assumption is that your partner is ABLE to say when they’ve hit their limit and decide when its time for them to stop and leave. Someone feeling suicidal- or in troughs of a PTSD flashback- they may NOT be able to say ‘when’.
I don't see myself as anymore of a risk to a Dominant than someone who has not been abused. I have no mental illness. I know when I'm at my limit. I know when I need to safeword. If I have a flashback, or hit a mental trigger..well it's going to be pretty obvious to someone who knows what they are doing that they need to stop. Most Doms/Tops can gauge a person's body language pretty well..especially if it's an established relationship. If it's a new partner you of course just tell them in advance these are the triggers..if we hit one..this is how I will react. Just stop and give me time. It's not a big deal really. Not for me anyone..or any of the partners I've ever had.

Secondly- while I understand healing must take place for survivors of sexual abuse- it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think that the fun a person might have later on is in reaction to something negative.

Thoughts?

This lifestyle is not my way of healing myself. It's who I am. I honestly think the majority of us are just wired this way. If I hadn't been abused I think I'd still be right where I am today. There are a lot of submissive women, painsluts..etc. That have never been abused.

I hope this helps clear things up a little bit and that I haven't been too oversensitive.
 
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