Conflict in erotica

[juliekitty]

One of the things that interests me is how to create and maintain dramatic tension in an erotic storyline.

Sex by itself naturally produces a certain amount of interest, but after awhile, writing sex endlessly can get boring. And the minute the writer gets bored, the "juice" goes right out of the story.

So as in all fiction, I think you need conflict. That is not to say, the characters arguing or bitching at one another, or even in physical altercations. But both characters have to want something that is diametrically opposed. In standard romance terms, it may be that she wants a relationship, while he just wants to get laid. That's a classic conflict right there.

But how do you play it out?

I was wondering how you create tension.

 

[Foxfan69]

Well Jullekitty to create conflic in any story, {fictional, erotic, or normal}, you would have to follow the old standard " Who, What, Where, Why, and How" procedure in writting. Have a coheisive and believable storyline. Make your characters lifelike and put them in reasonable situations. Too many stories, {especially sexual ones}, start out with a totaly unrealistic plot. [I.E. their eyes met across a crowded room and they both knew they were destined to f--k!] The real conflict, [tension], between the characters is how they meet; how they react to each other and how they respond to the circumstances they find themsrlves in. Whenever two people meet there is a natural tension betwen them. Use this as a starting point and your story,[if you have a plotline], should flow from that point. I hope this helps you out. Foxfan69.

 

[KillerMuffin]

I'm not sure, exactly. The conflict I've got is inherent in the plot and characters. I've never come up with a story idea that didn't have conflict in it already.

Of course I claim to write erotic fiction but the average Lit-goer finds me run-of-the-mill.

I think that there are essentially two kinds of stories in porn. Confessionals and fiction. Confessionals are essentially the narrator speaking directly to the reader. They're real or imagined, but it's more of a "Let me tell you what happened to me..." feel. Fiction is where the characters either get or are supposed to get the brunt of the storytelling business. Confessionals are the most popular here and they generally have little or no plot and little or no conflict. Fiction tends to have some conflict and plot in it. Sometimes the only conflict is when it takes more than one try to hide the salami.

In my view porn has no conflict. It's just two people fucking, the sex is the story and the characters are secondary. Erotica is where the characters are more important than the sex. It's two characters moving through a plot that just happens to involve sex.

Now the definition of a plot, no matter what MW thinks, is a beginning, conflict, and conflict resolution. In erotica the most common obstacle is mental. "I can't have sex with this person because {pick a reason}." When the character overcomes that obstacle, generally by simply disregarding it, the sex takes place and it is the resolution of the conflict.

Fiction here gets the short shrift on conflict simply because when people write here they write for the sex. They never think of conflict or the finer art of storytelling. If they do, often the conflict is either contrived or thrown in the readers face so often it's irritating. Like her huge husband is going to kill me. The huge husband never had a place in the story before and he's thrown in only to cause an obstacle. A popular one in incest stories is to beat the fact that it's incestuous into the ground. "He spurted his incestuous seed deep in the his daughter's womb." Yeah, great. Incest, non-consent, mind-control, BDSM, fetish, anal, pretty much everything but erotic couplings and romance, has built in conflict already.

Gawd I do like to go on, don't I? I don't think I made any sense either. *sighs*

By the way, your introduction to Lit was anything but good. Welcome anyway.

 

[Foxfan69]

Re: Conflict

I agree with two of your points, Killermuffin. "Porn has no conflict." True enough. It's usually just sex for the sake of sex and nothing more. "Fiction gets the short shrift on this site." True again. The art of storytelling is lost to the masses on a site such as this one. I believe that was what Jullekitty was trying to adress in her post. How do you move from pure porn with no conflict into the realm of erotic fiction with conflict? My response is create a believable plot with character developement and some natural conflict will usually arise. Just MHO nothing more

 

[Couture]

JulieKitty, there are plenty of ways to create conflict in erotica. There is no rule that says the story has to be all fucking and sucking.

The easiest way is to borrow from other genres, but with an added hot twist. How about a mystery?

Your husband has been acting funny. You wonder if he is cheating, so you follow him one day. He goes to the seedy part of town and enters a derelict building.

The reader will be wondering where you are going with the story and there are so many different places you could take this. There aren't any limit other than throwing in a sex scene here and there.

 

[Foxfan69]

To Couture:

"There is no rule that says a story has to be all fucking and sucking."........................ That is the point I tried to make to Juliekitty. Sometimes a good storyline or unexpected plot twist can ellivate a story from being pure porn and boring into the realm of erotic fiction. Some people don't like loose ends or so called "story arcs". I think that giving the reader a sense of "there might be more to the story than what is on the surface" can usually enhance the reading experience. After all, life doesn't always follow a set pattern; [other than first you are born and eventualy you die.]

 

[MaxSebastian]

Here's a couple of vague suggestions:

Try taking two characters from two different walks of life, characters whom society discourages from getting together, perhaps.

Try two characters who start of disliking each other intensely until they start to find out about each other and slowly find themselves drawn to each other.

Conflict doesn't have to come between the two characters, though - the conflict could come from some other agent, and the two characters face that conflict together.

I do agree that the best stories have some kind of conflict that needs resolving.

 

[juliekitty]

Goal, motivation and conflict

There's a great book I recommend to any of you who want to get somewhere with writing, no matter what particular genre you use.

It's called GOAL, MOTIVATION AND CONFLICT, and it's by Debra Dixon, I believe. You can probably get it at Amazon.com

Deb's book is designed around a chart that goes something like this:

Every character has a goal, something he wants. It needs to be something damned important to him. It can be as simple as getting laid, but the problem with that goal is, if he fails to get it, so what? What's the consequence of failure? The consequences have to be serious: a lost job, a lost marriage, or a lost life.

The example I gave once is: My goal is lunch. If I fail to achieve my goal, no big deal. I skip a meal. But if I'm starving and if I don't eat, I'll die... THAT'S a dramatic goal.

Motivation: What's the character's motivation for seeking the goal? Well, with the above example, the motivation is: I need to stay alive. Now, that's motivation in its most dire form. People are generally willing to do damn near anything to go on living.

Conflict: Okay, what's the conflict? In fiction, you should have both an internal and external conflict to get the story to work. Let's say the character in my lunch example is a vampire. He needs to find somebody to feed on. His external conflict is, getting his hands on a pretty female lunch.

But maybe his internal conflict is, he feels guilty about preying on people. Yet he's got to, or he'll die.

If you wanted to ratchet the strength of the conflict up: what if the only person around he could feed on was someone he was desperately in love with? He's afraid he's going to kill her, but he's not sure he can control himself. Yet if he doesn't take her, he'll die.

In a two-person conflict -- which is most interesting, and usually what you're going to have in erotica -- you've got a second character with a Goal, Motivation and Conflict which are in opposition to the first character's.

So here's the girl the vampire loves. Let's say her goal is to stay with the vampire without ending up getting killed. Motivation is: she's in love with him. Conflict: her two goals, staying with the vampire and not getting killed, are in diametric opposition. The vampire is starving, he's not in control. She needs to get away from him. But if she leaves him, he's going to die. She can't stand to let him die. How does she resolve the conflict?

I actually used a variation on that conflict in a novella called "Blood and Kisses," in Secrets Vol. 3. The heroine had hired the hero, a vampire, to protect her from another vampire.

But the bad guys badly wound the vampire, and he's almost bled out. Then they stick him and the girl in a tube about the size of a coffin. (I needed to put them somewhere where the vamp couldn't just get up and leave.) The villain gives her a wooden knife and tells her she can kill him or die. The hero tells her to kill him, because he can't control himself. He's starving, but he doesn't want to kill her. She asks him to turn her into a vampire, but he refuses because he's not sure he can pull it off. So she deliberately cuts herself, so that he has no choice except to try.

After he feeds, he's able to regain his strength and kick badguy butts, and she becomes a nigh-invulnerable vampire.

The point is, there is a dark moment in that tube where the choice is really dire, and we don't see how our characters are going to make it out alive. That gets the readers every time.
I've done four Secrets novellas, but that's the one everybody likes the most.

(It's on Amazon.com, BTW, if you're interested.)

See how that works? Take two characters with opposing GMCs, and stand back. The story will write itself.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Not interested, but thanks anyway. I've got no difficulties with conflict or plot. Nice lecture, though.

 

[juliekitty]

Lecture

Sorry to those who already know about all that. But some don't. Figured it might be helpful.

 

[Whispersecret]

I'm going to see Deb Dixon lecture in April on GMC. Juliekitty, you must be a romance writer? Deb seems to be the most well known within that genre. Just wondering. Going to RWA in Denver?

 

[juliekitty]

Deb's lecture

You'll enjoy it. Her talk is a lot of fun; I've heard her do it.

Unfortunately, I won't be at RWA this year. No money.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

To quote the late, lamented, "Lonesome" George Gobel, "I feel like a pair of brown shoes in a world of tuxedos," posting after you guys.

One big problem with writing erotica is how to make the sex scenes "move" the story. In porn, the sex is an end unto itself. But with erotica, a lengthy, detailed, intimate description of sex should advance the plot, right?

When writing erotic couplings or romance, this can, for me at least, become a chore. In theory, a long, steamy, up-close-and-personal sex scene should make the story better than just having Melanie and Ashley climb the stairs, a train speed into a tunnel, turning off the bedroom light, or the hotel room door close after the characters enter. Assuming such a theory is valid, the challenge facing the writer is how to make the sex scene(s) both stimulating and significant.

Does any of this make sense?

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Monazwx]

So much sense

Rumple Forskin, I so know what you're saying. When I started writing erotica, my stories were sex-based and that's it. The characters were skeletal and I thought that once they had sex, either the story was over or I didn't know how to end.

Sometimes, I still have problems using the scene to spur the story along so that the conclusion seems believeable, but I seem to be getting through it. I intend to submit a few stories soon and you all can be the judge(s).

By the way . . .

What's the GMC and RWA?

How do I get a schedule for where are they held and how can I get go too? Is there a seminar fee, etc.?

And juliekitty, my copy of Goal, Motivation and Conflict is in the mail!

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Mona,

You're going to hate the second half of my reply to your question, "What's the GMC and RWA?"

RWA stands for Romance Writers of America. They have many, many chapters plus a large web site.

As for GMC, I quote you, "And juliekitty, my copy of Goal, Motivation and Conflict is in the mail!"

I said you'd hate my reply.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Monazwx]

Laughing at myself . . . . alot

Thanks RF for pointing that out.
I would have gotten it eventually. (I think?)

I feel completely clueless right now.

 

[mforj]

Tension can take many forms, depending on the reader as well as the writer.

Readers want different things from their visits to literotica - to gain knowledge and understanding, to experience a variety of possibilities at no risk, to see what others do, etc .. but most want to read something that will excite them.

Whether they are aroused to point of orgasm or perhaps so frustrated they can't sleep after will depend on their starting position and what they read.

I try to make my (sometimes her) writing interesting and believable enough to make them want more .. but sensual, exciting and erotic enough to give them the satisfaction that reading was worthwhile.

Reading and writing are two sides of the same activity, communicating with real people.

 

[Whispersecret]

Mona,

You're going to hate the second half of my reply to your question, "What's the GMC and RWA?"

RWA stands for Romance Writers of America. They have many, many chapters plus a large web site.

As for GMC, I quote you, "And juliekitty, my copy of Goal, Motivation and Conflict is in the mail!"

I said you'd hate my reply.

Rumple Foreskin

You dissin' romance writers, RF?

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

RF to Mona: "RWA stands for Romance Writers of America. They have many, many chapters plus a large web site."

WS to me: "You dissin' romance writers, RF?"

WS, for the life of me I can't see where my statement about RWA can be discribed as "dissin'".
If you're just yanking my chain, no problem. For that matter, it's also no problem if you do think I stumbled away from the straight and narrow path of politcal correctness and, in this case, my own beliefs. But if the latter situation is the case, please point out the error of my ways. I always prefer making intentional insults instead of unintentional ones which I can't enjoy.

In the For What It's Worth category, I've got no heartburn with RWA, other Romance writer's group, Romance writers, any other genre writer, or even non-fiction writers. While Romance, like all genres, has its own particular requirements, I'm convinced the basic demands of good writing are universal.

Last year I attended the local RWA conference because several topics to be discussed applied to writing in general. This year most of the topics relate specificaly to Romance, so I'm not going.

Now tell us the truth Whispersecret, in a society that preaches, "judge not lest ye be judged," ("dissin'" being loosely defined as, "having been judged and found wanting,") is it possible you were inadvertently dissin' those of us who may have been guilty of unintentional dissin'?

RF

 

[Whispersecret]

I thought you were dissin' us because you told her she'd hate your reply. As if when she found out what RWA was, she'd hate herself for asking because the answer was odious. I'm sure I'm being overly defensive. Forgive me if I am. We romance writers don't get no respect, y'know.

Oh, and I have no objection to people being judgmental. I actually think our society doesn't have enough of that right now.

I just wanted to know if you had a beef with romance writers, cause if you did, I was gonna roll up my sleeves to defend our honor.

But, seems like we're cool, man.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Solid

"But, seems like we're cool, man."

Not only are we cool, I'd say we're copesetic, except I can't spell copesetic. RF

 

[KillerMuffin]

*whispering* copasetic. . .

I thought I'd replied to this thing before I left. Apparently not.

No worries, jk. I'm a horribly arrogant person who firmly believes that she knows everything worth knowing. You came across as neither arrogant, condescending, or insulting. I just sincerely wish that the people who actually need this kind of help would actually read this thread. But noooooo, "I don't care, I'm just writing for myself!" Buttheads, the fat lot of them. Too many "I'm just writing for myselves!" are hanging out posting indiscriminately all over the place. If they're "just writing for myself!" why do they feel the need to share it?

Blah blah blah, ignore me I'm ranting, blah blah blah.

 

[Riven___Caulfield]

The Writer's Manual.

I don't often post on threads - I just wanted to say for anyone who does want a great book for writers of any medium, STORY by Robert McKee is the best I've ever found and repeatedly reccomended by professionals.

It gives you massive insight into character structure, etc, but it's around $50.00 U.S, I think.

So, that's my 2 cents.

 

[concrete]

rc

yous gots da book. spit out what we all need to hear.

the beginning, or starting point, is what determines the direction of the character.The mould has been pre=set ,only good writing can change the out come

 

[MaxSebastian]

Too many "I'm just writing for myselves!" are hanging out posting indiscriminately all over the place. If they're "just writing for myself!" why do they feel the need to share it?

Here here!