Concrete Criticism Desired

[CarolinaPeach]

Below are my stories in chronological order.

I wish more casual readers would comment, especially when something sticks out as a glaring flaw. But as they do not, I turn to you guys for help. I am looking for concrete criticism that will help me improve my future writing.

Five is a lot of stories for one person to read, so even commenting on one would be a big help. I appreciate the effort it takes to read stories and provide feedback, so let me say "Thank you" to all willing to take on the task.

I have noted the category so you can decide if it is up your alley.

http://www.literotica.com/s/the-hand
Exhibitionism

http://www.literotica.com/s/the-genius-of-mardi-gras
Group sex

http://www.literotica.com/s/the-accidental-virgin-1
First time

http://www.literotica.com/s/gift-from-the-islands
Lesbian

http://www.literotica.com/s/ambers-golden-summer
First time

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Thus far you've ignored my posts to you on other threads, do I get the same treatment if I look at your stories?

I went ahead and read your stories and left a comment as ANONYMOUS with my name at the bottom of the comment.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

the accidental virgin - i didn't like the narrator, which in itself is no bad thing, at least she made an impact.

when it got to the actual sex you dropped the dialogue and went into telling mode, and that froze out any eroticism you'd built. it almost feels like you raced for the tape and just wanted the piece finished.

just my unqualified observations, which are meant to be wholly constructive. i'd say show us the characters more and tell the story through their eyes, etc. more dialogue when it gets hot.

 

[CarolinaPeach]

Thus far you've ignored my posts to you on other threads, do I get the same treatment if I look at your stories?

I went ahead and read your stories and left a comment as ANONYMOUS with my name at the bottom of the comment.

I'm sorry you feel ignored. I gave your replies my attention and then thanked you, amongst all, for your information. I liked your comment about dice, actually. Gave me a giggle.

I appreciate your comment on my story as well. It seems to be an across the board problem for you and it's great to hear something so specific and consistent... it gives me something to work on in the future. My latest editor agrees with you.

So I thank you for your involvement in my other thread, and thank you for commenting on my stories. I appreciate both.

geronimo_appleby

Thanks to you as well for reading and commenting. I read several of your stories to get a feel for your use of dialogue and how you "show" your characters. (I've heard "show, don't tell" since I began writing and know how important that is!) You've given me some concrete things to keep in mind for my next story.

 

[RileyGirl]

Group Sex

If I had been more adventurous and in with the drinking crowd in college I would probably have had the same kind of experience, but mine came later in my twenties, but when I did have my experience(s), you really summed them up perfectly with the inhibition, and wondering if I should be doing what I was doing, the fear, and then submitting to the desire and the reckless abandon. Very good.

As far as content, very hot, many things were very erotic, but I felt they lacked certain aspects to make the story especially memorable or vivid outside of the initial scenario, maybe I just like things a bit more x-rated . I mean, I remember certain details that were especially hot (sordid), and always use them, sometimes just in passing (the reader can think about it later in depth), or describing them in great detail.

Writing, very good! Like I said in the first paragraph, you really captured a woman in her first moment of abandon. It does happen again and again, just each time you think, "I would never do this." But that is exactly what I thought and felt (each time) and the trepidation was perfect!

I understand how you would like feedback. I'm always so disappointed when I check to see if my new submission has been accepted and it's still pending. When it has, I can't wait to see what people have to say or think. Good or bad, I've been lucky enough not to have any assholes yet. I've only had two submissions posted, but I love it already, and can't wait for the next!

Return the favor and vote and comment on mine! Thanks!

One more thing, brevity. I can understand story line (which I lack, it's mostly just an account of an ongoing sexual escapade) but I can't understand how 5 or 6 pages of writing gets a 4.5 rating. I can read Ayn Rand's Fountainhead or George R.R. Martin's books, but I'm here to read about sex, and some of these stories are longer than porno movies. Obviously, it's what folks like here (hence the high ratings), so pay attention to that if you want to improve your rating, but personally, I liked your brevity.

 

[RileyGirl]

Reading other authors, re JAMESBJOHNSON

I completely agree JAMESBJOHNSON: I like comments, I figured I should start reading other writers' stories and giving an opinion, at least encouragement and voting. I found it somewhat shocking you can favorite your own story (I didn't try it, but the option was there, it seemed... dishonest). I'm sticking closer to my genre, but I'm following others writers in it and posting where I see fit. But as a writer, it is discouraging to check out comments, and see how many posters aren't writers.

 

[CarolinaPeach]

If I had been more adventurous and in with the drinking crowd in college I would probably have had the same kind of experience, but mine came later in my twenties, but when I did have my experience(s), you really summed them up perfectly with the inhibition, and wondering if I should be doing what I was doing, the fear, and then submitting to the desire and the reckless abandon. Very good.

As far as content, very hot, many things were very erotic, but I felt they lacked certain aspects to make the story especially memorable or vivid outside of the initial scenario, maybe I just like things a bit more x-rated . I mean, I remember certain details that were especially hot (sordid), and always use them, sometimes just in passing (the reader can think about it later in depth), or describing them in great detail.

Thank you for responding, I will def check out your stories. And leave a comment!!!

It's nice to know what I am getting right... the story I am currently working on deals with the overcoming inhibition aspect as well.

I seem to be falling down in the x-rated details department, which is, umm... the whole point of this entire site??? My current editor is helping me improve in this department, and comments like yours help also.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I liked "Gift from the Islands". I can't offer much criticism there, and I'm surprised it didn't rate a little higher. It might have worked a little better with more length and a bit more opportunity to get to know the characters, but that may just be me.

 

[sr71plt]

I agree that "Gift from the Islands" is a good one. The only thing I can think of to make it better would have been to front load atmospherics that made the two girls easily sensual, and thus with few inhibitions to open to each other sexually. You have the makings of that already. I agree that New Orleans' French Quarter has a natural sensual aura to it and an easy sexuality. So, as a matter of fact, do the Samoan islands. You could have placed both girls in their natural habitats a bit more to bring out that they easily would fall into sensuality based on their childhood environments.

Now, that said, I have seen in my own writing that the audience here for the exotic locales and situations (other than werewolves and unicorns) doesn't seem to be as large and responsive as those with horizons confined to 10 miles from their home and to mundane life activities. Not much can be done with that, though, I don't think.

 

[RuzieD]

I read the exhibitionism one.

I noticed an anonymous poster said that beginning was boring and you should've started with a grope.

Please ignore that advice.

I like the opening. I liked the premise. It created a compelling mental image of non-hedonistic college girl suddenly surrounded by hedonism.

The grope itself felt a little ghostly and disconnected. The character is not sure why she allows it to continue. That is interesting. However, I don't know why she would either. I got the impression that she's doing something out of character, but I'm not convinced that she would.

Overall though, I thought it was sketch of single scene. I'll read the continuation.

 

[CarolinaPeach]

I liked "Gift from the Islands". I can't offer much criticism there, and I'm surprised it didn't rate a little higher. It might have worked a little better with more length and a bit more opportunity to get to know the characters, but that may just be me.

Thank you for reading! I appreciate your time and your feedback.

I agree that "Gift from the Islands" is a good one. The only thing I can think of to make it better would have been to front load atmospherics that made the two girls easily sensual, and thus with few inhibitions to open to each other sexually. You have the makings of that already. I agree that New Orleans' French Quarter has a natural sensual aura to it and an easy sexuality. So, as a matter of fact, do the Samoan islands. You could have placed both girls in their natural habitats a bit more to bring out that they easily would fall into sensuality based on their childhood environments.

Many thanks to you also. Well, they say "write what you know," and unfortunately I've never been to Samoa. But you would have liked a bit more about the characters?

I read the exhibitionism one.

I noticed an anonymous poster said that beginning was boring and you should've started with a grope.

Please ignore that advice.

I like the opening. I liked the premise. It created a compelling mental image of non-hedonistic college girl suddenly surrounded by hedonism.

The grope itself felt a little ghostly and disconnected. The character is not sure why she allows it to continue. That is interesting. However, I don't know why she would either. I got the impression that she's doing something out of character, but I'm not convinced that she would.

Overall though, I thought it was sketch of single scene. I'll read the continuation.

Thank you for your detailed comments! It is just this sort of thing I need to hear... motivation of character and plausibility. That will go on my list of things to keep track of.

But it is interesting... what does one do with contradictory advice? Is this question of length of intro more a matter of taste than something being right or wrong? My current editor wants me to drastically cut the intro to what I am working on now and I have accepted that advice operating on the theory that, usually, less is more and I can get verbose.

I dunno, I am interested to hear what you guys have to say about elaborate vs quick intros.

 

[MJ10]

I completely agree JAMESBJOHNSON: I like comments, I figured I should start reading other writers' stories and giving an opinion, at least encouragement and voting. I found it somewhat shocking you can favorite your own story (I didn't try it, but the option was there, it seemed... dishonest). I'm sticking closer to my genre, but I'm following others writers in it and posting where I see fit. But as a writer, it is discouraging to check out comments, and see how many posters aren't writers.

Yeah, the voting for yourself thing feels like a literary version of ballot stuffing to me. I am not even giving my story a rating--the people of Lit have spoken and what I am standing by their verdict even if I think my character is the sexiest car thief alive and deserves her own pay per view series (scripted by me, of course).

As for the above stories, I have read at least one ("Amber's Golden Summer") and can tell you that Carolina is a hell of a writer, even if she's doing it on her own dime. Hopefully she'll get paid for her smutty prose one day, and gets to keep every cent.

Now off to bed.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I completely agree JAMESBJOHNSON: I like comments, I figured I should start reading other writers' stories and giving an opinion, at least encouragement and voting. I found it somewhat shocking you can favorite your own story (I didn't try it, but the option was there, it seemed... dishonest). I'm sticking closer to my genre, but I'm following others writers in it and posting where I see fit. But as a writer, it is discouraging to check out comments, and see how many posters aren't writers.

It was news to me, too. Might come in handy if your LIT friends are kicking sand on you with ONE BOMBS. The other thought that occurred to me is, add your 5 later, after the excitement is over and the story is old news.

 

[Dream_Operator]

I read The Genius of Mardi Gras. Here's my thoughts:

1) Not really much of a story, really it's just a sex scene -- little or no plot, little or no dialog, little or no character development. Basically it's:

"I'm Kerri and this is Jim"

I stammered my name. She groped me.

"Wanna go back to my sister's place and and fucK?"

"Okay."

<sex scene>

The end.

Perhaps that's what you were going for, I don't know. Certainly that's all some readers want.

2) Sex scene - I found it more tedious than arousing. You describe everything in the minutest detail and it kills the flow (at least for me).

3) Sentence repetition - have look at how many times you use the word "I" and how many times it begins a sentence. If you choose to write in first person you need to vary the sentence structure, or it quickly becomes boring and the narrator begins to come off as self absorbed and not likable.

4) Character development - I felt, after reading it, that I knew almost nothing about any of the characters (including the MC). Jim was basically some dude with a cock, and Kerri was little more than that.

------

Recommendations:

1) To expand your skill set as a writer: try writing in third person, or first person from a male character's POV.

2) Try writing a story using only dialog (or at least the rough draft).

3) Balance the story - the story was set in NOLA during Mardi Gras, but other than the woman who looked like a Vegas Showgirl, there was little to set the scene and put the reader inside of it.

Was the crowd bustling? Were there floats? Beads? People puking in the gutter? Jazz music? etc.

 

[sr71plt]

Many thanks to you also. Well, they say "write what you know," and unfortunately I've never been to Samoa. But you would have liked a bit more about the characters?

In the age of the Internet you don't have to "know" just what you've seen with your own eyes in order to do enough research to use the exotic and unusual--and provide added dimension and layers of meanings--in your writing. You raised connections in this story that could have effectively been used to serve the story--and probably should have been used more directly. Now I'm wondering if you even understood the reference points you invoked.

Why did you pick Samoa for the origin of one of your characters? Maybe the basic problem with the story is that you don't know what references a reader will take from that use. A reader with some knowledge of Samoa and other Polynesian island cultures will have the reference of easy, innocent sexuality, as known through the "gone native" art of Gauguin and Matisse and some of the writing of Jack London, Melville, Robert Louis Stevenson, and James Michener.

You set this up by opening with references to the sensuality of the French Quarter in New Orleans--and then picked two girls from areas known for sensual and open sexuality underpinnings to ease into lesbian sex. (But maybe only knowing that you were setting up one of the girls to naturally be receptive to easy sex? Not knowing the Samoan girl would have the background reference point with readers too?)

All good in establishing (if not fully working) the two girls as coming from readily sensual and open sexuality backgrounds. This is what can cut short the effort and wordage needed to enable the two girls to be sexually attractive to each other and easily moving into acting on that (and if this wasn't what you were doing with their origins, you didn't make the transition to lesbian sex believable enough).

So, I thought that's what your story was doing and the reference points you were using--if not fully or sufficiently. If that's not what you knowingly were doing, then it becomes a whole lot less good as a story--and what you were doing by making one girl Samoan and the other from the French Quarter escapes me.

I thought of it as an excellent approach to getting the two girls together that just wasn't fully developed enough. Maybe I was trying to make it better and more coherent than it was. (Can I take my rating vote back?)

 

[CarolinaPeach]

Wow, I asked for it and I really got it. But it's all good. I knew I needed a thick skin to really take on board suggestions and criticisms. Thank you, each one, for contributing to my education.

sr71plt--- You actually can take back your vote, simply return to the story and choose a lower star rating. It is accurate that I was not (consciously) doing all those cool things you credited me with in the beginning. I know Samoa and New Orleans are much looser and freer places than a tiny Catholic college in the north eastern United States, and I was building on that, but not in the deliberate way you initially assumed. I am rather flattered anyone would even erroneously attribute such literary prowess to me. As I said, I know I am no genius. Just someone who enjoys writing and hopes to bring others some pleasure, and to improve along the way.

If everyone evaluated things your way, there would not be so much complaint about inflated numbers and they would mean more. Which would be a good thing.

I'm sorry I don't have time to reply to all, but I truly appreciate your participation. All this is being filed away for future use.

 

[sr71plt]

sr71plt--- You actually can take back your vote, simply return to the story and choose a lower star rating.

I don't think that will work and don't want to try it out. Was just kidding about that part.

 

[CarolinaPeach]

Yeah, the voting for yourself thing feels like a literary version of ballot stuffing to me. I am not even giving my story a rating--the people of Lit have spoken and what I am standing by their verdict even if I think my character is the sexiest car thief alive and deserves her own pay per view series (scripted by me, of course).

As for the above stories, I have read at least one ("Amber's Golden Summer") and can tell you that Carolina is a hell of a writer, even if she's doing it on her own dime. Hopefully she'll get paid for her smutty prose one day, and gets to keep every cent.

Now off to bed.

Thank you so much for your vote of confidence. It is flattering and maybe more than I deserve. But I certainly will accept all compliments!

It was news to me, too. Might come in handy if your LIT friends are kicking sand on you with ONE BOMBS. The other thought that occurred to me is, add your 5 later, after the excitement is over and the story is old news.

I am not sure what to say to this... I don't think anyone has been "one bombing" me nor do I vote on my own stories. But I appreciate your interest in my thread.

I read The Genius of Mardi Gras. Here's my thoughts:

1) Not really much of a story, really it's just a sex scene -- little or no plot, little or no dialog, little or no character development. Basically it's:

"I'm Kerri and this is Jim"

I stammered my name. She groped me.

"Wanna go back to my sister's place and and fucK?"

"Okay."

<sex scene>

The end.

Perhaps that's what you were going for, I don't know. Certainly that's all some readers want.

2) Sex scene - I found it more tedious than arousing. You describe everything in the minutest detail and it kills the flow (at least for me).

3) Sentence repetition - have look at how many times you use the word "I" and how many times it begins a sentence. If you choose to write in first person you need to vary the sentence structure, or it quickly becomes boring and the narrator begins to come off as self absorbed and not likable.

4) Character development - I felt, after reading it, that I knew almost nothing about any of the characters (including the MC). Jim was basically some dude with a cock, and Kerri was little more than that.

------

Recommendations:

1) To expand your skill set as a writer: try writing in third person, or first person from a male character's POV.

2) Try writing a story using only dialog (or at least the rough draft).

3) Balance the story - the story was set in NOLA during Mardi Gras, but other than the woman who looked like a Vegas Showgirl, there was little to set the scene and put the reader inside of it.

Was the crowd bustling? Were there floats? Beads? People puking in the gutter? Jazz music? etc.

Thank you, you have given me a LOT of really good concrete feedback and asked some very good questions that will help me develop my next story more fully. I appreciate the time you took to read so carefully and formulate thoughtful comments.

 

[RuzieD]

But it is interesting... what does one do with contradictory advice? Is this question of length of intro more a matter of taste than something being right or wrong? My current editor wants me to drastically cut the intro to what I am working on now and I have accepted that advice operating on the theory that, usually, less is more and I can get verbose.

I think I'd ask why. I'd also consider what goals are for the story. Maybe its supposed to a brief, simple, pornish vignette. Maybe it is meant to be the opening scenes for an on-going novella.

In some erotica (short porn stories basically) by a, professional, successful author, I notice that there is almost always a short introduction of the mc. It's not a novel, so it doesn't have to drone on, but you get an idea for the character's inner motivations, inner emotional state, and watch how that changes by the end of the story. I figure, if it is something a professional writer does, than it must be worth emulating.

There is certainly room for difference of taste as well. I don't mind reading erotica that's driven by flat characters, but I find it more erotic when the characters have a little bit more background/depth to them.

 

[CarolinaPeach]

I think I'd ask why. I'd also consider what goals are for the story. Maybe its supposed to a brief, simple, pornish vignette. Maybe it is meant to be the opening scenes for an on-going novella.

In some erotica (short porn stories basically) by a, professional, successful author, I notice that there is almost always a short introduction of the mc. It's not a novel, so it doesn't have to drone on, but you get an idea for the character's inner motivations, inner emotional state, and watch how that changes by the end of the story. I figure, if it is something a professional writer does, than it must be worth emulating.

There is certainly room for difference of taste as well. I don't mind reading erotica that's driven by flat characters, but I find it more erotic when the characters have a little bit more background/depth to them.

I am struggling with deciding about a current work, whether I want it to be shorter or longer. I've got an abridged section in the works and must decide between the two. It is hard. "I think I'd ask why," is very timely advice. I will be asking myself that as I work... why is something there? If it doesn't have a purpose, obviously it should be cut.

Thank you very much for this reply. It has come at exactly the right time.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

One way to think of a story is this:

Every story should be an answer to some life conflict or question. The answer rides in the wagon. The rest of it is constructing the team that pulls the wagon, and building the road the wagon travels.

 

[CarolinaPeach]

One way to think of a story is this:

Every story should be an answer to some life conflict or question. The answer rides in the wagon. The rest of it is constructing the team that pulls the wagon, and building the road the wagon travels.

Excellent! Very well put! Thank you.

 

[Perfideous]

So, I've read two of your stories.

The hand.

I think what was there is well written but I wonder if it wasn't too one sided. The handy man gets her off and she can't give anything back. It's just a grope in the dark.

The no underwear is a biggie and I think possibly a scene where she's deciding what to wear, shaving her pussy, imagining what it would be like to be naked, that sort of thing might have been worthwhile. Not that she does take her clothes off but she can still fantasize.

A sequel where she asks men to grope her so she can identify him by his touch might be fun.

The Accidental Virgin.

Your character is a slut. A boyfriend stealing slut. I would have made her just a bit more likeable, a bit of angst over the sex perhaps. Where the story fails, is in the sex. She is in control all the way through and men don't like that. If she had done all the turning on, primed the pump if you like, then let him control things, surrendered to his manly authority and received an outstanding rogering as a result it would have done better.

Just my thoughts.

 

[CarolinaPeach]

The hand.

I think what was there is well written but I wonder if it wasn't too one sided. The handy man gets her off and she can't give anything back. It's just a grope in the dark.

The no underwear is a biggie and I think possibly a scene where she's deciding what to wear, shaving her pussy, imagining what it would be like to be naked, that sort of thing might have been worthwhile. Not that she does take her clothes off but she can still fantasize.

A sequel where she asks men to grope her so she can identify him by his touch might be fun.

The Accidental Virgin.

Your character is a slut. A boyfriend stealing slut. I would have made her just a bit more likeable, a bit of angst over the sex perhaps. Where the story fails, is in the sex. She is in control all the way through and men don't like that. If she had done all the turning on, primed the pump if you like, then let him control things, surrendered to his manly authority and received an outstanding rogering as a result it would have done better.

Just my thoughts.

Thank you for your input, i really appreciate the time you took to read and comment. I'm not just saying that, I think it's really awesome complete strangers have taken time to help me out.

The accidental virgin... yeah, she's a super slut, she's supposed to be. The virgin himself is single, he wasn't stolen from anyone. She might be a ho, but she's no home wrecker, lol. She seems to be very unpopular, which is not so great. It is good to know about the in control thing.

I like your ideas for the hand, especially the shaving thing. And the fantasies within fantasies that we all enjoy.

This is great, I am filing all of this away for future guidance.

 

[Perfideous]

Thank you for your input, i really appreciate the time you took to read and comment. I'm not just saying that, I think it's really awesome complete strangers have taken time to help me out.

The accidental virgin... yeah, she's a super slut, she's supposed to be. The virgin himself is single, he wasn't stolen from anyone. She might be a ho, but she's no home wrecker, lol. She seems to be very unpopular, which is not so great. It is good to know about the in control thing.

I like your ideas for the hand, especially the shaving thing. And the fantasies within fantasies that we all enjoy.

This is great, I am filing all of this away for future guidance.

You're so welcome. You're much braver than me

Look this slut thing. Male readers don't like them. They love seeing the girl turned into a raving nymphomaniac by the male characters skilled manipulations and (physical and oral) but they don't like it if she's easy.

It gets down to the male need for conquest which gets down to the male ego. And you must remember most readers are male and most of them want to identify with the male lead.