Concealed Weapon Laws
- Thread starter SeXy ReDHeD
- Start date
Andra_Jenny
Mentally Divergent
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2000
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- 2,865
I am surrendering.
I am tired of Celeste the Body flaming me for being an idiot, so Forest Takes his leave of the conversation.
I am tired of Celeste the Body flaming me for being an idiot, so Forest Takes his leave of the conversation.
KillerMuffin
Seraphically Disinclined
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2000
- Posts
- 25,603
Re: Well Muffkill.....
Does wolfy have to be present?
I'm kinda torn on the whole legalize drugs thing TN. I don't think anyone should do drugs, nor do I think they should ever be given the impression that drugs are okay in any way shape or form. However, this is supposed to be the land of the free and the brave. Brave we aren't. If it weren't for the fact that some moron would sue the company for something that's he did to himself, why shouldn't a person be given the right to choose whether or not do drugs? We can choose to kill unborn babies, but we can't choose to do crank? That's one of those killer issues. I should have the right to do coke as well as alcohol. But, coke is bad and there is no way in hell should it ever be allowed to be thought of as otherwise.
*shrugs*
You know Siren, I might be convinced to do four fucks too.
Siren said:
Does wolfy have to be present?
I'm kinda torn on the whole legalize drugs thing TN. I don't think anyone should do drugs, nor do I think they should ever be given the impression that drugs are okay in any way shape or form. However, this is supposed to be the land of the free and the brave. Brave we aren't. If it weren't for the fact that some moron would sue the company for something that's he did to himself, why shouldn't a person be given the right to choose whether or not do drugs? We can choose to kill unborn babies, but we can't choose to do crank? That's one of those killer issues. I should have the right to do coke as well as alcohol. But, coke is bad and there is no way in hell should it ever be allowed to be thought of as otherwise.
*shrugs*
You know Siren, I might be convinced to do four fucks too.
Actually I believe that if everyone had a concealed weapon something like a pocket handgun violence would be down because people would be less likely to get into anything with the next guy/girl since they don't know what they would have on them. Actually it was like that during the times of prohabition. Only people that was killing eachother then where mobsters but the ordinary folk were known to be really polite to each other because everyone had something on them
No one is going to win this one. But a point if I may. I am a gunsmith. One week prior to the last hunting season I was transporting over 60 firearms of all types back to the sporting good dealers. I requested a police escort due to the large number but was turned down. So yes I carry a concealed weapon. Possibly you would prefer I be robbed and these firearms disappear. Trouble is the robbers would use/sell them and I doubt for hunting. Washington state probits firearms in bars by ANYONE other than sworn police officers. If you are carring a concealed weapon, maximum BAC is 0.01. Mouthwash would most likely put you over. As far as I know, there has not been one case in recent history of an idividual with a concealed weapon commiting a crime. And with the media as it is today heard of any I am sure they would be overjoyed to tell us about it. By the way it is against the law in every state to take a firearm in a bar and murder someone
GuyJD
"Simply.....the best"
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2000
- Posts
- 4,898
OH YEAH, I'M PACKING A BIG ONE
In June, 1999. I decided to leave my wife and police job in the Big Easy and drive to California to begin a new life. (You know the place....swimming pools, movie stars) Throughout my drive, I kept my holstered .357 magnum at my side. I wasn't sure about the laws in New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, or California, but in Louisiana, it is legal to carry a holstered gun as long as it is in sight. If stopped or pulled over, you must comply with the officer and inform him/her that you are "packing heat". In Louisiana, you cannot be arrested once you've done this.
In June, 1999. I decided to leave my wife and police job in the Big Easy and drive to California to begin a new life. (You know the place....swimming pools, movie stars) Throughout my drive, I kept my holstered .357 magnum at my side. I wasn't sure about the laws in New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, or California, but in Louisiana, it is legal to carry a holstered gun as long as it is in sight. If stopped or pulled over, you must comply with the officer and inform him/her that you are "packing heat". In Louisiana, you cannot be arrested once you've done this.
SeXy ReDHeD said:
"I came to the conclusion that this will not protect people from violence, but actually cause more
violence... especially "heat of the moment" violence, like road rage and lovers quarrel crimes.
This seems to me the logical conclusion."
------------------------------------------------------------
Just how did you come to that conclusion? Any facts to back it up or just a feeling?
I found this on the NRA web site. I'm sure I can scrounge up all the associated data if you wish to see it. If the data is to be believed, it's safer to have those among us that are legally carrying a concealed weapon.
"Using data for all 3,054 U.S. counties from 1977 to 1994, University of Chicago Prof. John Lott finds that for each additional year a concealed handgun law is in effect the murder rate declines by 3%, robberies by over 2%, and the rape rate by 2%."
------------------------------------------------------------
SeXy ReDHeD also said:
"Also, it seems that it would make the jobs of police officers a lot harder and a great deal more dangerous, especially when it's illegal here to for an officer to use ANY deadly force (i.e. a gun) unless the suspect is very, very obviously trying to hurt them..."
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I know a few law enforcement officers and we have talked about this particular subject. By and large they prefer to deal with a person that has a carry permit. Why? 99% of the time someone that has a permit and is carrying will tell the officer that up front. You see, most people that take the time to acquire a permit are dependable, honest, law-abiding citizens. They do not wish to break the law, just defend themselves if necessary. Those that would use a gun for ill, aren't going to bother with obtaining a carry permit.
------------------------------------------------------------
SeXy ReDHeD's comment:
"Anyway... it's already legal to carry an unconcealed weapon, so why would one need to carry a concealed one?"
------------------------------------------------------------
Ever try and walk into Walmart with a 45 Cal. strapped to your side? I don't think that would be accepted very well.
------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by TN_Vixen:
"Seriously. Consider this.
A redneck motherfucker enters a bar pissed off b/c he thinks his chick is cheatin' on his ass. He's carrying a concealed weapon in his faded blue jeans jacket.... has a few beers, sees "his woman" dancin' with another loser-redneck jackass motherfucker and decides that's just too much for him to handle... so what? He pulls out his 38 special--- LEGALLY concealed within his jacket and blows not only his old lady away, but everyone else within a 5 ft. radius. I say....HELL that's fucking progress for the gun association. Every American has a right to not only bear arms but conceal them in order to keep the fact that they are dumb ass backwater hillbillies that can think of no other resolution but to blow a person away in the heat of the moment."
------------------------------------------------------------
Vixen, I won't even try and address your argument. The reason being is that it is a total emotional one. I can and will discuss an issue as long as it stays in the logical, real world of facts. If you quote something as fact I have the option to: 1.accept it, or 2. Prove it wrong. I can not do that with emotion. Who am I to tell you how you should feel? You and only you are the judge of that. But I believe all that is accomplished by bringing emotional,inflammatory, rhetoric into a discussion such as this is to fan the flames of zealotry and submerge any pertinent points that are
made. Rush Limbaugh is a classic example of one well versed in the art. you want to convince me your right? Do it with a logical argument, not an emotional one.
------------------------------------------------------------
riff said:
"Why conceal the handgun? If it is to deter crime, isn't the criminal more likely to see your gun and say "He's armed, better not fuck with him, better find someone else...?" (Is this common sense or am I missing something- I'm not a criminal... maybe the sight of a weapon on you makes you more attractive to crime...). If I was going to use a handgun to deter crime, I'd carry it in my fucking hand so you could see me coming! (hehehe)"
------------------------------------------------------------
If carrying a concealed weapon was suppose to be a deterrent for crime you would have an excellent point. Unfortunately you missed entirely. A concealed weapon is for self-protection, not a deterrent. Totally different and distinct concepts. The deterrent part is just a nice side effect.
------------------------------------------------------------
riff said:
"Whatever- the main point that I want to make is that America is a violent nation. I don't think taking away guns will solve that, but I don't think arming everyone or even permitting some of them to carry concealed weapons will change that."
------------------------------------------------------------
You are right about this being a violent nation, but you are wrong in your assumption that allowing law abiding citizens to carry a concealed weapon won't change anything. Check my response to the SeXyReDHeD and reread WriterDom's post:
"From the University of Chicago study
VI. Conclusion
Allowing citizens without criminal records or histories of significant mental illness to carry concealed handguns deters violent crimes and appears to produce an extremely small and statistically insignificant change in accidental deaths. If the rest country had adopted right-to-carry concealed handgun provisions in 1992, at least 1,570 murders and over 4,177 rapes would have been avoided. On the other hand, consistent with the notion that criminals respond to
incentives, county level data provides evidence that concealed handgun laws are associated with increases in property crimes involving stealth and where the probability of contact between the criminal and the victim are minimal. The largest population counties where the deterrence effect
on violent crimes is the greatest is also where the substitution effect into these property crimes is the highest. The estimated annual gain in 1992 from allowing concealed handguns was over $6.21 billion."
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/guns/gunslott.html
Comshaw
"I came to the conclusion that this will not protect people from violence, but actually cause more
violence... especially "heat of the moment" violence, like road rage and lovers quarrel crimes.
This seems to me the logical conclusion."
------------------------------------------------------------
Just how did you come to that conclusion? Any facts to back it up or just a feeling?
I found this on the NRA web site. I'm sure I can scrounge up all the associated data if you wish to see it. If the data is to be believed, it's safer to have those among us that are legally carrying a concealed weapon.
"Using data for all 3,054 U.S. counties from 1977 to 1994, University of Chicago Prof. John Lott finds that for each additional year a concealed handgun law is in effect the murder rate declines by 3%, robberies by over 2%, and the rape rate by 2%."
------------------------------------------------------------
SeXy ReDHeD also said:
"Also, it seems that it would make the jobs of police officers a lot harder and a great deal more dangerous, especially when it's illegal here to for an officer to use ANY deadly force (i.e. a gun) unless the suspect is very, very obviously trying to hurt them..."
------------------------------------------------------------
I know a few law enforcement officers and we have talked about this particular subject. By and large they prefer to deal with a person that has a carry permit. Why? 99% of the time someone that has a permit and is carrying will tell the officer that up front. You see, most people that take the time to acquire a permit are dependable, honest, law-abiding citizens. They do not wish to break the law, just defend themselves if necessary. Those that would use a gun for ill, aren't going to bother with obtaining a carry permit.
------------------------------------------------------------
SeXy ReDHeD's comment:
"Anyway... it's already legal to carry an unconcealed weapon, so why would one need to carry a concealed one?"
------------------------------------------------------------
Ever try and walk into Walmart with a 45 Cal. strapped to your side? I don't think that would be accepted very well.
------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by TN_Vixen:
"Seriously. Consider this.
A redneck motherfucker enters a bar pissed off b/c he thinks his chick is cheatin' on his ass. He's carrying a concealed weapon in his faded blue jeans jacket.... has a few beers, sees "his woman" dancin' with another loser-redneck jackass motherfucker and decides that's just too much for him to handle... so what? He pulls out his 38 special--- LEGALLY concealed within his jacket and blows not only his old lady away, but everyone else within a 5 ft. radius. I say....HELL that's fucking progress for the gun association. Every American has a right to not only bear arms but conceal them in order to keep the fact that they are dumb ass backwater hillbillies that can think of no other resolution but to blow a person away in the heat of the moment."
------------------------------------------------------------
Vixen, I won't even try and address your argument. The reason being is that it is a total emotional one. I can and will discuss an issue as long as it stays in the logical, real world of facts. If you quote something as fact I have the option to: 1.accept it, or 2. Prove it wrong. I can not do that with emotion. Who am I to tell you how you should feel? You and only you are the judge of that. But I believe all that is accomplished by bringing emotional,inflammatory, rhetoric into a discussion such as this is to fan the flames of zealotry and submerge any pertinent points that are
made. Rush Limbaugh is a classic example of one well versed in the art. you want to convince me your right? Do it with a logical argument, not an emotional one.
------------------------------------------------------------
riff said:
"Why conceal the handgun? If it is to deter crime, isn't the criminal more likely to see your gun and say "He's armed, better not fuck with him, better find someone else...?" (Is this common sense or am I missing something- I'm not a criminal... maybe the sight of a weapon on you makes you more attractive to crime...). If I was going to use a handgun to deter crime, I'd carry it in my fucking hand so you could see me coming! (hehehe)"
------------------------------------------------------------
If carrying a concealed weapon was suppose to be a deterrent for crime you would have an excellent point. Unfortunately you missed entirely. A concealed weapon is for self-protection, not a deterrent. Totally different and distinct concepts. The deterrent part is just a nice side effect.
------------------------------------------------------------
riff said:
"Whatever- the main point that I want to make is that America is a violent nation. I don't think taking away guns will solve that, but I don't think arming everyone or even permitting some of them to carry concealed weapons will change that."
------------------------------------------------------------
You are right about this being a violent nation, but you are wrong in your assumption that allowing law abiding citizens to carry a concealed weapon won't change anything. Check my response to the SeXyReDHeD and reread WriterDom's post:
"From the University of Chicago study
VI. Conclusion
Allowing citizens without criminal records or histories of significant mental illness to carry concealed handguns deters violent crimes and appears to produce an extremely small and statistically insignificant change in accidental deaths. If the rest country had adopted right-to-carry concealed handgun provisions in 1992, at least 1,570 murders and over 4,177 rapes would have been avoided. On the other hand, consistent with the notion that criminals respond to
incentives, county level data provides evidence that concealed handgun laws are associated with increases in property crimes involving stealth and where the probability of contact between the criminal and the victim are minimal. The largest population counties where the deterrence effect
on violent crimes is the greatest is also where the substitution effect into these property crimes is the highest. The estimated annual gain in 1992 from allowing concealed handguns was over $6.21 billion."
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/guns/gunslott.html
Comshaw
