Compromise

[4est_4est_Gump]

Have a nice day.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

This article somewhat reminded me of this thread:


https://spectator.org/the-need-for-an-american-national-identity/

 

[RobDownSouth]

The aging white boomer demographic is loathe to give up the political power they've had by dint of numbers over the past three decades. They rely upon gerrymandering key states and subverting Senatorial norms to keep their tenuous grasp on power.

Their numbers, however, grow fewer and fewer with each passing day.

Then will come a reckoning.

 

[Que]

The aging white boomer demographic is loathe to give up the political power they've had by dint of numbers over the past three decades. They rely upon gerrymandering key states and subverting Senatorial norms to keep their tenuous grasp on power.

Their numbers, however, grow fewer and fewer with each passing day.

Then will come a reckoning.

"Senatorial norms" were "subverted" by Harry Reid.

Gerrymandering (made famous by Democrats) cannot happen unless you are already in power, which cannot happen unless you win elections in d8stricts previously gerrymandered by the other side. You lost 1000 seats because of prognosticators like those you are above parroting who mistook the lack of enthusiasm for firing the "historic" president for enthusism for his policies.

You announced that day of reckoning was the 2016 election. Then never again with a white male be President. You wrongly assume that Democrats own whatever aggrieved population they lay claim to.

After the electorate wisely proved you wrong with a cartoonishly unelectable white male, you hid in ignominious shame for six full weeks. You're barely back to making political post under your own name a year later.

. . . Or did you mean to post this as Mcgurkus, coward?

 

[richard_daily]

I don't really see how the cause or historical process makes any difference ... we are where we are now, and need to work out a way out of the mess, not go 'Oh, it's fine that we're here because history'.

We're certainly involved in class warfare, where the plutocrats steal money from the people doing the work, and producing things.

 

[water505]

We're certainly involved in class warfare, where the plutocrats steal money from the people doing the work, and producing things.

LMFAO!!!!

Yes...blame it on The Man!

You have "One of Life's Losers" tattooed on your forehead.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Queerbait has gone "full Gish Gallop" this morning. SAD.

 

[DrDelirium]

Just a note on the Greeks and democracy- they almost never had it, and their philosophers were pretty much all opposed to it, equating it with mob rule, leading to tyranny. Of course, the literate Greeks whose words we read were scions of the upper classes, and naturally feared 'the mob,' so their perspective is an expression of class war, but that doesn't mean they were wrong. Given the class divisions that existed among the Greeks, monarchy seems to have been as stable and beneficial a form of government as anything else.

 

[RobDownSouth]

AJ has often opined that compromise is a moral failure of True Believers.

 

[Que]

Queerbait has gone "full Gish Gallop" this morning. SAD.

Back to referring to me in third person are you, chum?

"Refudiating" each or your hackneyed, regurgitated talking points is the opposite of Gish Gallop.

Your post, on the other hand, was a textbook example of Gish Gallop throw everything in there and hope some of it sounds smart. None of your borrowed "analysis" is supported by the post election autopsy commissioned by the DNC.

 

[RobDownSouth]

#HeFollowsMeEverywhere

 

[richard_daily]

LMFAO!!!!

Yes...blame it on The Man!

You have "One of Life's Losers" tattooed on your forehead.

I guarantee that I make more money than you do.

The point is that working people (ie; not you) get it stolen from them by plutocrats who get more welfare than anyone else.

You like to prop up your masters.

I don't have masters.

 

[richard_daily]

#HeFollowsMeEverywhere

It's like having a pound puppy.

 

[Rightguide]

I think the basic problem is when some people get more stuff than some other people, so if you wanted to restore equality, you have to get some of that stuff back off them. And people seem to like their stuff quite a bit. More than they like equality.

Who but a nitwit would want to live in a world where everyone was equally miserable? How would that be enforced? We know how, and we know that those who did enforce it would be more equal.

 

[DrDelirium]

I think the basic problem is when some people get more stuff than some other people, so if you wanted to restore equality, you have to get some of that stuff back off them. And people seem to like their stuff quite a bit. More than they like equality.

There is stuff, and there is stuff. There is a level of stuff without which people's lives are seriously constrained or impossible- food, shelter, clothing, heat. Then there are 75" quad HD TVs. Americans have been trained to value the second kind of stuff a lot, but not everyone really cares about it. To a large degree, such stuff is a substitute for the human connections that become distorted or destroyed in a society where pursuit of stuff is celebrated. It might well be that equality of basic stuff, which is technologically feasible, would provide the foundation for more rewarding human relationships, which seem to be harder and harder to come by as we focus more on elaborate and unnecessary stuff.

 

[Libsam]

I also wonder if size of a society makes a difference. In a true democracy, everyone would have a say about most things of significance - I think it works like this in Switzerland (although I could be wrong and can't be arsed fact-checking right now). But that relies on a well educated and engaged population. These days, poor people largely don't vote (and American seems fond of taking votes away from chunks of the population who are largely poor), because they lack engagement, and are often too busy doing the boring stuff that poor people have to do. I think that didn't used to be the case ... I watched a documentary about the British miners strike a while back and was surprised to learn that the unions (which was pretty much all the miners) were not only hugely political, but actually read Marx. So they were obviously engaged in the political process ... hence something more like a democracy. If great swathes of the population don't vote, and those who do vote are motivated almost solely by protecting their own interests ... well, here we are.

Yes, Plato was hired by Alexander The Great to teach philosophy. Later, Alexander had Plato arrested when he told them that he couldn't run anything larger than a city-state as a Democracy.

 

[Libsam]

The people the country belongs to probably didn't want to trade their culture with yours either. Maybe you should give it back to them and go home, if you feel that strongly about it.

Ah, yes, The Noble Savage.

You know, I often hear left leaning people tell right leaning people stuff like, "This is progress, you can't make America 1950s again."

When the pilgrims landed on plymouth rock and found the indians, the pilgrims were at least 1000 years more advanced than the indians. Progress!

 

[Libsam]

I think the basic problem is when some people get more stuff than some other people, so if you wanted to restore equality, you have to get some of that stuff back off them. And people seem to like their stuff quite a bit. More than they like equality.

Read up on the Tragedy of the Commons.
When everyone owns something, no one owns it, because the collective has no incentive to conserve, but to use beyond it's capacity.

If you don't feel like reading, watch John Stossel's video about the Tragedy of the Commons.

 

[Hypoxia]

Garrett Hardin's Tragedy of the Commons paper is much-cited but not supported by data, alas. But why discard a convenient myth?

 

[BotanyBoy]

We're certainly involved in class warfare, where the plutocrats steal money from the people doing the work, and producing things.

I guarantee that I make more money than you do.

The point is that working people (ie; not you) get it stolen from them by plutocrats who get more welfare than anyone else.

You like to prop up your masters.

I don't have masters.

Plutocrats (at least you're using the right word this time) are stealing your money?

How?

Last I checked you have to give it to them. I haven't seen a single one of them stealing anything from me.

 

[Libsam]

Garrett Hardin's Tragedy of the Commons paper is much-cited but not supported by data, alas. But why discard a convenient myth?

I'll have to remember that the next time a Climate Change supporter quotes Garrett Hardin.

 

[KimGordon67]

Read up on the Tragedy of the Commons.
When everyone owns something, no one owns it, because the collective has no incentive to conserve, but to use beyond it's capacity.

If you don't feel like reading, watch John Stossel's video about the Tragedy of the Commons.

I understand the concept.

 

[KimGordon67]

Garrett Hardin's Tragedy of the Commons paper is much-cited but not supported by data, alas. But why discard a convenient myth?

Quite.

 

[KimGordon67]

Ah, yes, The Noble Savage.

You know, I often hear left leaning people tell right leaning people stuff like, "This is progress, you can't make America 1950s again."

When the pilgrims landed on plymouth rock and found the indians, the pilgrims were at least 1000 years more advanced than the indians. Progress!

I never said anything about the 'Noble Savage' trope ... I just pointed out that complaining about migrants 'invading' your space is a bit ironic when that's how you got the space in the first place. I'm not making value judgements about any culture involved ... you're making assumptions on my behalf. However, your interpretation does depend on your definition of 'advanced'. Just because some cultures develop in different ways than others doesn't necessarily mean they're more 'advanced' ... it really depends on the yardstick you're using.

 

[KimGordon67]

There is stuff, and there is stuff. There is a level of stuff without which people's lives are seriously constrained or impossible- food, shelter, clothing, heat. Then there are 75" quad HD TVs. Americans have been trained to value the second kind of stuff a lot, but not everyone really cares about it. To a large degree, such stuff is a substitute for the human connections that become distorted or destroyed in a society where pursuit of stuff is celebrated. It might well be that equality of basic stuff, which is technologically feasible, would provide the foundation for more rewarding human relationships, which seem to be harder and harder to come by as we focus more on elaborate and unnecessary stuff.

This is were the concept of the Universal Basic Income comes in - then the first level of 'stuff' is covered for everyone, and they can do what they want about getting the second level.
[*Ducks for cover.*]