Communication

[Nightbird]

First I have a confession to make. I really don't understand the difference between the How To and the HT Cafe so if I'm posting this in the wrong spot please forgive me.

I've learned that when some Women have a bad day or are upset about something they want to be able to talk to their partner and all they really want him to do is just listen. I'm the type of guy who likes to fix things, for example come to me and tell me something about your boss I in an effort to be helpful will suggest ways to fix the problem. Now I have learned that this isn't always the best course of action to take and I have tried hard to be a better listener and not a fixer.
In my effort to become a reformed fixer I've run into a bit of a snag, when told about a bad day that has been had or other crappy things I find myself wanting to respond by saying "Sorry" or "I'm sorry." This is my way of showing empathy and or being sympathetic but I'm now often told I say sorry too much.
Is there a better way for me to communicate empathy and or sympathy without saying sorry? How can I become a better listener?

 

[Hiliburn]

This is typical male/female communication behaviors. So no confession needed. It's tricky dealing with the opposite sex, isn't it? lol
Conveying that you are listening and care how she feels is all that's needed generally. Sometimes we like a full on agreement to our thoughts, but often we know when we are being overdramatic and silly- it just needs to get out of us. The venting is necessary to let things go. We appreciate the fact you want to help us fix things, we really do! But we love it when you can listen... and eventually when we calm down we find we like you even more for being so attentive.

 

[PutMeInCoach12]

First I have a confession to make. I really don't understand the difference between the How To and the HT Cafe so if I'm posting this in the wrong spot please forgive me.

I've learned that when some Women have a bad day or are upset about something they want to be able to talk to their partner and all they really want him to do is just listen. I'm the type of guy who likes to fix things, for example come to me and tell me something about your boss I in an effort to be helpful will suggest ways to fix the problem. Now I have learned that this isn't always the best course of action to take and I have tried hard to be a better listener and not a fixer.
In my effort to become a reformed fixer I've run into a bit of a snag, when told about a bad day that has been had or other crappy things I find myself wanting to respond by saying "Sorry" or "I'm sorry." This is my way of showing empathy and or being sympathetic but I'm now often told I say sorry too much.
Is there a better way for me to communicate empathy and or sympathy without saying sorry? How can I become a better listener?

My husband is the same way. To be honest there are times when I want him to fix something or do something about the situation but for the most part I'm just wanting an ear to vent to. I had a male friend who was quite a bit older than me. When I would go to him with a problem he would listen... actually listen and then ask me if there was anything he could do to help or make me feel better. I loved it. The thought that he was willing to put in the time to help if needed was there, but also the idea that he wasn't going to bulldoze the situation and turn it into something bigger when I might just need to vent. It helped me take a step back and look at the problem and see if my actions/thoughts were appropriate or over the top....I maaaayyyyyy have a tendency to overreact once in awhile.

 

[NippleMuncher]

It is fairly clear when talking with women what it is that they're looking for. It requires listening to their tone and body language in addition to the words they speak. Most of the time they simply want an ear to vent their frustrations of the day. When you go into "fix this" mode is when you start hearing repeated rants about the same people, places, or things.

Unfortunately, women don't come with an operator's manual, even if they did, each model is uniquely different and will take you time to learn her individual quirks and triggers.

 

[VanessaVixen]

I'm a woman but I've struggled at times with the need to just tell someone how to fix their problem, so I have some idea where you're coming from.

Many people aren't looking for a solution, but they're not necessarily just looking for a listener either - they need commiseration. If you can't ethically get on board with saying, 'Wow, what a shitty thing that was for X to do,' you can at least try to understand how your friend feels thwarted. 'I can see how X's attitude would be super frustrating.' Of course, if your friend is in the right, tell her so emphatically.

Basically, when you feel you need to say something, make it something that demonstrates that you're on her side and you understand why her day sucked so bad. Commiserate a little.

 

[bailadora]

Basically, when you feel you need to say something, make it something that demonstrates that you're on her side and you understand why her day sucked so bad. Commiserate a little.

This is an excellent point! I would also argue that you can utilize other methods to demonstrate your empathy. A head nod when you agree with something she's said. A scoff, a "pffft" , a frown or an eye-roll when she's relating some boneheaded thing someone did. You'd be amazed at what can be communicated through non-verbal cues!

ETA: Nightbird - FWIW- this topic could have gone on either board. HT is primarily where people go to seek advice, while the Cafe is a bit more open in that any and all topics are up for discussion as long as it doesn't turn into a flame war.

 

[satindesire]

I strongly suggest you go and pick up the Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus books by John Grey. He taught me how to talk with my partners and how to understand what they say without any misconceptions or arguments over crossed wires. I have to tell you, these books made me a better wife and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

 

[Curious_in_Cali]

The book that helped me the most to gain new communication skills was Nonviolent Communication. It is arguably more focused on conflict resolution, but it really made me slow down and more deeply consider what I said and what I MEANT to say....and just how different those messages can be when my heart is impassioned with the dealings of the day. It also teaches better listening skills which I had assumed I was already pretty good at, but turns out in many ways I was not. It was humbling, but in the end it was the bridge I clung to though a very challenging time.

Best of luck to you.

 

[fire_breeze]

First I have a confession to make. I really don't understand the difference between the How To and the HT Cafe so if I'm posting this in the wrong spot please forgive me.

The How-To is usually the place in which to ask opinions and advice. The How-To Cafe is a place for discussion.

I've learned that when some Women have a bad day or are upset about something they want to be able to talk to their partner and all they really want him to do is just listen. I'm the type of guy who likes to fix things, for example come to me and tell me something about your boss I in an effort to be helpful will suggest ways to fix the problem. Now I have learned that this isn't always the best course of action to take and I have tried hard to be a better listener and not a fixer.
In my effort to become a reformed fixer I've run into a bit of a snag, when told about a bad day that has been had or other crappy things I find myself wanting to respond by saying "Sorry" or "I'm sorry." This is my way of showing empathy and or being sympathetic but I'm now often told I say sorry too much.
Is there a better way for me to communicate empathy and or sympathy without saying sorry? How can I become a better listener?

Do you listen... and then hear what the person is telling you, or are you just nodding your head, giving the "courtesy" listen?
Communication is not just talking, it's also about listening and empathising. I understand that people are fixers, but how are you going to fix a bad day at work for me? You can't, because you do not work in the same work environment and therefore don't know the dynamics. If I ask for advice for a repeated problem, that's different.

However, you can help me fix a bad day in general by listening and hearing what I have to say. In other words, don't indulge me. Listen. Hear. Ask questions if you aren't sure. Show me that I am important. That's empathy, not saying I'm sorry, but connecting, and for most, one can connect by being there and truly absorbing what the individual is saying. A couple of days later, ask how the situation went.

Satin mentioned several books. Read them. Also, look at how people of the same gender speak and listen to each other. I'm a consummate people watcher, and love to watch two or more women or two men or more talk. The best listeners of either genders listen, pay attention, hear, commiserate and are patient. They are also, if I read the body language correctly and I'd like to think I do, trustworthy and honest.

There is a world of difference between being helpful and being the 'hero'. A listener is the former. A jackass is the latter.

Good luck

 

[KnittyKitty]

I had a whole list of things that I wanted to say in relation to your question, but you have really received a ton of great advice already. I just wanted to reiterate the fact that every woman is different, and what might work for one of us, might not work for the one you are talking with. Also, like bailadora said-- really use your non-verbal communication skills. It shows the "I'm sorry" better than saying it does in most cases.

 

[Nightbird]

Hi Hiliburn thank you for the great advice! It is tricky dealing with the opposite sex.
Actually my confession was about not knowing the proper place to put my question. I wasn't sure if it belonged in the How To. Or the How To Cafe.

This is typical male/female communication behaviors. So no confession needed. It's tricky dealing with the opposite sex, isn't it? lol

 

[Nightbird]

You know Coach I never thought of it that way. But your totally right, often when I do try to fix a situation like this I end up bulldozing and it ends up bigger. Thank you for your reply.

put in the time to help if needed was there, but also the idea that he wasn't going to bulldoze the situation and turn it into something bigger when I might just need to vent. It helped me take a step back and look at the problem and see if my actions/thoughts were appropriate or over the top....I maaaayyyyyy have a tendency to overreact once in awhile.

 

[Nightbird]

I'm horrible at reading body language NippleMuncher. I often explain to be Women that I am oblivious to their Subtle ways and just to hit me with a Clue By Four!
I would prefer a device to read their minds rather than an Operator's manual.
Thank you very much for your advice.

It is fairly clear when talking with women what it is that they're looking for. It requires listening to their tone and body language in addition to the words they speak.
Unfortunately, women don't come with an operator's manual, even if they did, each model is uniquely different and will take you time to learn her individual quirks and triggers.

 

[Nightbird]

That's part of my Problem Vanessa Vixen when I try to commiserate the only thing I can think of to say is "sorry." But when I do that I get told not to say sorry that I say it too much.

I'm a woman but I've struggled at times with the need to just tell someone how to fix their problem, so I have some idea where you're coming from.
Basically, when you feel you need to say something, make it something that demonstrates that you're on her side and you understand why her day sucked so bad. Commiserate a little.

 

[satindesire]

That's part of my Problem Vanessa Vixen when I try to commiserate the only thing I can think of to say is "sorry." But when I do that I get told not to say sorry that I say it too much.

You can say things like,

"Ooo, that sucks."

"That's terrible."

"I can't believe that!"

"Wow, what shit luck, babe."

And other things that communicate that you sympathize with her, WITHOUT saying the dreaded s-word.

 

[Nightbird]

Thanks Bailadora the sticky that explains the Cafe is a little confusing.

You'd be amazed at what can be communicated through non-verbal cues!
ETA: Nightbird - FWIW- this topic could have gone on either board. HT is primarily where people go to seek advice, while the Cafe is a bit more open in that any and all topics are up for discussion as long as it doesn't turn into a flame war.

 

[Nightbird]

Really? I always thought those books where more of a comedy kind of thing.

I strongly suggest you go and pick up the Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus books by John Grey. He taught me how to talk with my partners and how to understand what they say without any misconceptions or arguments over crossed wires. I have to tell you, these books made me a better wife and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

 

[NippleMuncher]

I'm horrible at reading body language NippleMuncher. I often explain to be Women that I am oblivious to their Subtle ways and just to hit me with a Clue By Four!
I would prefer a device to read their minds rather than an Operator's manual.
Thank you very much for your advice.

I used to be that way as well. Like everything else in life, learning to read people in general is something that you pick up over time. You might want to look at a few books on the subject of reading body language, vocal intonation, and how people "say" stuff without actually saying what they think they're saying (You all know who you are!!! )

I too tend to be a direct person, if I've got a problem or something on my mind I tend to let the person of interest know what's going on. I have a few people in my life that are the same way, unfortunately, my girlfriend isn't one of them.

The better you know someone, the easier it is to read them because you have a history of interactions with them to guide you through uncharted territory. With new acquaintances it can be more difficult to get a read, however, people generally have the same types of tells, once you know what you're looking at, you can figure out what type of response is required.

 

[Nightbird]

Curious in Cali,

Years ago when I was in College studying Law and Security I took a class on Non Violent Crisis Intervention and one on Communication you'd think I would be better at this than I am. Thank you very much for suggesting the book and I hope your clear of that challenging time now and doing better.

The book that helped me the most to gain new communication skills was Nonviolent Communication. It is arguably more focused on conflict resolution, but it really made me slow down and more deeply It was humbling, but in the end it was the bridge I clung to though a very challenging time.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Nightbird]

Thanks Fire Breeze! Especially on the empathy part.. But are you calling me a jackass? (JUST KIDDING) Pauvre Bebe!

The How-To is usually the place in which to ask opinions and advice. The How-To Cafe is a place for discussion.

However, you can help me fix a bad day in general by listening and hearing what I have to say. In other words, don't indulge me. Listen. Hear. Ask questions if you aren't sure. Show me that I am important. That's empathy, not saying I'm sorry, but connecting, and for most, one can connect by being there and truly absorbing what the individual is saying. A couple of days later, ask how the situation went.
There is a world of difference between being helpful and being the 'hero'. A listener is the former. A jackass is the latter.

Good luck

 

[Nightbird]

My Non verbal skills are aweful. But that is good advice thank you Knitty Kitty.

Also, like bailadora said-- really use your non-verbal communication skills. It shows the "I'm sorry" better than saying it does in most cases.

 

[Nightbird]

Satindesire I could just HUG YOU! That's great advice thank you!

By the way I like your AV picture..

You can say things like,
"Ooo, that sucks."
"That's terrible."
"I can't believe that!"
"Wow, what shit luck, babe."
And other things that communicate that you sympathize with her, WITHOUT saying the dreaded s-word.

 

[Nightbird]

I used to be that way as well. Like everything else in life, learning to read people in general is something that you pick up over time. You might want to look at a few books on the subject of reading body language, vocal intonation, and how people "say" stuff without actually saying what they think they're saying (You all know who you are!!! )

WHY CAN'T THEY USE PLAIN SIMPLE ENGLISH!!!??

I too tend to be a direct person, if I've got a problem or something on my mind I tend to let the person of interest know what's going on. I have a few people in my life that are the same way, unfortunately, my girlfriend isn't one of them.

Ohhh how I can relate to that statement!

The better you know someone, the easier it is to read them because you have a history of interactions with them to guide you through uncharted territory. With new acquaintances it can be more difficult to get a read, however, people generally have the same types of tells, once you know what you're looking at, you can figure out what type of response is required.

You know it's Ironic I used to work in Loss Prevention and I could tell just from watching a person if they were going to attempt to shoplift something. But noticing other types of tells. Ya not so much.

 

[satindesire]

Really? I always thought those books where more of a comedy kind of thing.

Really and truly they're not. I've read probably 4-5 of his Mars/Venus books and the things I learned from him were invaluable..literally. It taught me how differently I think than my husband does, and how we speak and how we take each other wrong when most of the time we're only trying to be helpful and loving to one another. It's saved us COUNTLESS fights, I can't even tell you how precious the knowledge inside them has been to me.

Satindesire I could just HUG YOU! That's great advice thank you!

By the way I like your AV picture..

Thanks! =^_^=

By the way, to women, we -are- using simple plain English. Only as a man, you don't understand OUR English.

That's why you gotta get those books. They will teach you how to speak "female". I'm not kidding.

 

[Nightbird]

Satin Desire are there a lot of Men are From Mars Women are from Venus books?

If so which ones would you recomend?