Communication versus Consideration

[impressive]

This has been swirling around in my mind for months, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter.

At what point in a "caring" relationship (friendship or romance) do you say to yourself: This person is simply not considerate of my feelings and not likely to become so ?

How explicitly can you communicate your needs/wants before their response feels obligatory (and, by extension, less genuine)?

Recognizing that everyone's different -- and every relationship is different -- where is YOUR line?

I gotta go to an all-day meeting, but I hope to have some interesting replies to chew on when I get back.

 

[Truth Serum]

This has been swirling around in my mind for months, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter.

At what point in a "caring" relationship (friendship or romance) do you say to yourself: This person is simply not considerate of my feelings and not likely to become so ?

How explicitly can you communicate your needs/wants before their response feels obligatory (and, by extension, less genuine)?

Recognizing that everyone's different -- and every relationship is different -- where is YOUR line?

I gotta go to an all-day meeting, but I hope to have some interesting replies to chew on when I get back.

I have developed many relationships in my life. I am always there for my friends no matter where or when I am needed. Yet, I have found that in the times they are happy, I'm not involved.

I have also noticed that in times I need them, they are never there for me. They are either "too busy right now...I'll get back to you" or "On the phone".

I never felt obligated to listen to a friend and normally tell them from the start if they want me to just not talk and listen, I will. I let them know that I would never be judgmental of them and never am. No one should ever throw stones.

I have pulled back on some of my friendships; pulled back, but never left. After a while you see the signs when you aren't needed anymore and that they have found others who make them feel better then perhaps I could have. One thing I do know for sure, I would never turn my back on my friends and I would be there for them at a drop of a hat ( or tear) and I know too, that when that tear is dried and they start smiling again...I won't hear or see them until the next time they need a shoulder. But hey, I've got strong ones.

 

[cantdog]

Fooey.

Since my teens, I've had a strong will to service, by which I mean I'm willing and helpful by default. People don't necessarily want that. A bunch of my early crushes and tentative romances, back then, fizzled because of it. Women generally don't much give a shit for nice guys. Even now, there are a lot more people who call me for rescue that who see me socially on a regular basis, because I will rescue people.

As for "considerate of my feelings"-- Once I was thirty or so, I developed a habit which is even worse than being helpful. I began gently insisting that each person I know is responsible for her own destiny, and that she must choose for herself and not rely on others to choose for her. People in crisis would get that from me. First get straight what you want, I'd tell 'em. Whoo. No way. People just want someone to tell 'em what they want. Maturity is repellent. Responsibility is worse. Once in a while, I will just baby someone, because they need it, but what we choose, in the end, is who we are. Personality is expressed in choices. That's the whole reason freedom is valuable.

Too much consideration of a person's feelings scares 'em off. Self-centeredness and being oblivious to others is pretty lousy, too. But the really popular and successful are just controlling pricks. People respond to power much easier than to consideration.

 

[amicus]

impressive]This has been swirling around in my mind for months, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter.

At what point in a "caring" relationship (friendship or romance) do you say to yourself: This person is simply not considerate of my feelings and not likely to become so ?

How explicitly can you communicate your needs/wants before their response feels obligatory (and, by extension, less genuine)?

Recognizing that everyone's different -- and every relationship is different -- where is YOUR line?

I gotta go to an all-day meeting, but I hope to have some interesting replies to chew on when I get back.

[/I]

~~~~~~~~

Well..just because it is you, Impressive, although you may not like my take on your query.

I am going to address this as if you are seeking understanding of relationships for fictional characters you are creating, thereby avoiding any personal involvement subject to criticism.

Secondly, I address this to heterosexuals only as I haven't a clue to same sex relationships and don't want to.

I always walk with the woman on my left, keeping my stronger right arm and fist free for action. Translate that to mean that I am a 'protective' cuss in my macho hood and besides I am usually bigger, taller and stronger than my female companion.

I am also a bit aggressive and defensive when threats arise and unless they are the size of a Mack truck, I usually glare them down and barge ahead. If they are Large (See Olive Oil and Bluto), and stoned on speed and looking for a confrontation, then I take my little fountain pen single shot .22 caliber out of my sleeve and depending on the distance, either put a neat little hole in the center of the chest or in the forehead just above the bridge of the nose. It is accurate up to about 8-10 feet and only one chance, so you should practice a little shooting skill. I only have to use that technique about once a week and I cover my trail.

When it comes to a physical relationship, I be the do'er and she be the do'ee, I always initiate, I don't like to be touched and feel it is my privilege to carress and fondle that lovely feminine form and all its secrets, thus bringing her to arrousal and receptive of even greater pleasures.

I am a meat and potato kinda guy and acquiesce to the more sensitive and sensual female as she dibbles and dabbles sampling exotic goodies that pleasure the palate, crazy little things those females. Give me a piece of red meat dripping blood and some thick heavy bread to sop it up with and I am a happy barbarian.

I prefer textured heavy durable material for my personal adornment, no jewelry, but I pander to the silk and satin and scent of a woman who bathes and pampers herself daily with dozens of lotions and creams. I may shave every day or so and ablute when she complains or every saturday night if I must.

Now if you want a discussion of gender uncertain modern, educated boys and girls, young men and women, who are gender uncertain and embarassed at their own innate sexual preferences and apologize at every step in the relationship, then it is not only that I can't advise you...no one can...it is a lose/lose scenario.

(Exagerrated for literary purposes)

amicus...

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

People can't give something they don't have inside of them. Odds are you are expecting more from this person than what he or she has to give. You need to be very realistic about this and not chalk it up as "he just doesn't understand/realize." Obviously, that kind of self delusion will lead to tears down the road.

Use your most scrupulous and independent judgement to decide what this person really has in him or her to give, and then decide whether it is enough. It's not fair to either one of you to do any less.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

bumping to see what else pops up

 

[izabella]

At what point in a "caring" relationship (friendship or romance) do you say to yourself: This person is simply not considerate of my feelings and not likely to become so ?

When I find myself less willing/able to keep communicating and asking for my needs to be met. When I find myself forcing myself to go the extra mile, and have to talk myself into being the one to reach out...again. When I find it difficult to give them the benefit of the doubt. When I find it difficult to give of myself to them.

 

[impressive]

One thing I do know for sure, I would never turn my back on my friends and I would be there for them at a drop of a hat ( or tear) and I know too, that when that tear is dried and they start smiling again...I won't hear or see them until the next time they need a shoulder. But hey, I've got strong ones.

A type of fair-weather friend, then? Okay. Do you expect nothing in return? Who do YOU lean on when you need that proverbial shoulder?

Thanks for the input.

 

[impressive]

Too much consideration of a person's feelings scares 'em off. Self-centeredness and being oblivious to others is pretty lousy, too. But the really popular and successful are just controlling pricks. People respond to power much easier than to consideration.

Hmm. You sound cynical, handsome. Yes, too much "consideration" can be smothering. However, too little makes you question your value to a friend or lover, does it not?

Personally, I do NOT respond to "power." I rebel against it and any other form of authority.

But, I'm not talking about broad relationships, here. I'm talking about close, personal relationships -- whether close friendships or romances.

Thanks for your views.

 

[Truth Serum]

A type of fair-weather friend, then? Okay. Do you expect nothing in return? Who do YOU lean on when you need that proverbial shoulder?

Thanks for the input.

Me, fair-weather? No...absolutely not. Like I said...I'm there anytime that person(s) would need me...even if they did and wanted to just bullshit and laugh.

What do I expect? Well, I certainly don't enter any type of relationship expecting anything more than what that person can give me in return.

I don't lean on anyone. I prefer to make people happy, to make them laugh and feel good.

Don't thank me for the input...thank you. My thinking about your questions has made me see things alot clearer.

 

[impressive]

[/I]

~~~~~~~~

Well..just because it is you, Impressive, although you may not like my take on your query.

I am going to address this as if you are seeking understanding of relationships for fictional characters you are creating, thereby avoiding any personal involvement subject to criticism.

Secondly, I address this to heterosexuals only as I haven't a clue to same sex relationships and don't want to.

I always walk with the woman on my left, keeping my stronger right arm and fist free for action. Translate that to mean that I am a 'protective' cuss in my macho hood and besides I am usually bigger, taller and stronger than my female companion.

I am also a bit aggressive and defensive when threats arise and unless they are the size of a Mack truck, I usually glare them down and barge ahead. If they are Large (See Olive Oil and Bluto), and stoned on speed and looking for a confrontation, then I take my little fountain pen single shot .22 caliber out of my sleeve and depending on the distance, either put a neat little hole in the center of the chest or in the forehead just above the bridge of the nose. It is accurate up to about 8-10 feet and only one chance, so you should practice a little shooting skill. I only have to use that technique about once a week and I cover my trail.

When it comes to a physical relationship, I be the do'er and she be the do'ee, I always initiate, I don't like to be touched and feel it is my privilege to carress and fondle that lovely feminine form and all its secrets, thus bringing her to arrousal and receptive of even greater pleasures.

I am a meat and potato kinda guy and acquiesce to the more sensitive and sensual female as she dibbles and dabbles sampling exotic goodies that pleasure the palate, crazy little things those females. Give me a piece of red meat dripping blood and some thick heavy bread to sop it up with and I am a happy barbarian.

I prefer textured heavy durable material for my personal adornment, no jewelry, but I pander to the silk and satin and scent of a woman who bathes and pampers herself daily with dozens of lotions and creams. I may shave every day or so and ablute when she complains or every saturday night if I must.

Now if you want a discussion of gender uncertain modern, educated boys and girls, young men and women, who are gender uncertain and embarassed at their own innate sexual preferences and apologize at every step in the relationship, then it is not only that I can't advise you...no one can...it is a lose/lose scenario.

(Exagerrated for literary purposes)

amicus...

Aw, ami ... I'm touched.

Thanks for prefacing your remarks with the proviso of a M/F dynamic ... because as much as I would like it otherwise, there is definitely a difference in both how we, as distinct genders, relate to one another and how we perceive the others' strengths & weaknesses.

I was speaking purely on an emotional level (as opposed to physical). I want to know how much leeway you allow someone to learn to understand you before you decide they are either (a) unable to comprehend or (b) unwilling to meet your needs/wants.

If you have to spell it out down to the last detail, does it cheapen the response?

Thanks for contributing!

 

[impressive]

Me, fair-weather? No...absolutely not. Like I said...I'm there anytime that person(s) would need me...even if they did and wanted to just bullshit and laugh.

What do I expect? Well, I certainly don't enter any type of relationship expecting anything more than what that person can give me in return.

I don't lean on anyone. I prefer to make people happy, to make them laugh and feel good.

Don't thank me for the input...thank you. My thinking about your questions has made me see things alot clearer.

Oops My typo. I meant to type "foul-weather friend"

 

[Truth Serum]

Oops My typo. I meant to type "foul-weather friend"

and yet you can see, my answer fits that as well.

 

[impressive]

People can't give something they don't have inside of them. Odds are you are expecting more from this person than what he or she has to give. You need to be very realistic about this and chalk it up as "he just doesn't understand/realize." Obviously, that kind of self delusion will lead to tears down the road.

Use your most scrupulous and independent judgement to decide what this person really has in him or her to give, and then decide whether it is enough. It's not fair to either one of you to do any less.

Thank you, Roxanne.

You're personalizing the question to relate to one single relationship in my life -- and, in this instance, it does not. It is a pervasive theme for me whenever I get close to anyone.

Do I expect too much of people? I don't believe so. Nor do I believe I'm delusional. I expect effort, really. That's all. If a friendship is struggling, and if I value that friendship, then I try something new. Is that too much to ask of someone else?

 

[impressive]

When I find myself less willing/able to keep communicating and asking for my needs to be met. When I find myself forcing myself to go the extra mile, and have to talk myself into being the one to reach out...again. When I find it difficult to give them the benefit of the doubt. When I find it difficult to give of myself to them.

Thank you! Yes, I understand this completely.

 

[Truth Serum]

You're personalizing the question to relate to one single relationship in my life -- and, in this instance, it does not. It is a pervasive theme for me whenever I get close to anyone.

Do I expect too much of people? I don't believe so. Nor do I believe I'm delusional. I expect effort, really. That's all. If a friendship is struggling, and if I value that friendship, then I try something new. Is that too much to ask of someone else?

Frienships shouldn't be a struggle. Is that friendship (or any frienship) worth keeping because you value it? Absolutely!

But if it is one-sided, then you have to ask yourself is it just you who is trying to keep it going?

 

[impressive]

Frienships shouldn't be a struggle. Is that friendship (or any frienship) worth keeping because you value it? Absolutely!

But if it is one-sided, then you have to ask yourself is it just you who is trying to keep it going?

Aw, but everyone will tell you that relationships take work to succeed -- effort to maintain. Or, are you saying that everything should be easy and natural and effortless?

At some point, every close relationship hits a rough patch. Sometimes, an external force thrusts it upon you. Other times, it gradually decays due to neglect. Or, perhaps, it's simply a breakdown in communication -- speaking "different langauges." When that happens, how specific must you be in order to get past it?

I am unable to tell someone: I need you to do this, this, and this. Doing so makes me distrust the response and puts me back to square one. It's like an emotional ultimatum, of sorts.

If you are valued, don't you think the other person(s) will invest the energy in finding out what you need? Anticipate it? Even *gasp* prevent future rough patches? Does a trial-and-error approach feel smothering to you -- or does it make you feel valued?

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

I'm not sure what I have to say is going to help much. I seem to have the same problem as you do, Imp. I cannot come out and say, "I need this." from a friend. Unfortunately for me, it seems in the majority of my friendships, I do most of the initiating of contact, etc. and it does make me wonder if they really *want* to be my friend or if they are just content to sit back and let me do most of the work. I get tired of that and tend to fade away from those people. I guess that's why I only have a couple of close friends... because they at least make some effort, along with myself, to maintain the relationship.

 

[impressive]

I'm not sure what I have to say is going to help much. I seem to have the same problem as you do, Imp. I cannot come out and say, "I need this." from a friend. Unfortunately for me, it seems in the majority of my friendships, I do most of the initiating of contact, etc. and it does make me wonder if they really *want* to be my friend or if they are just content to sit back and let me do most of the work. I get tired of that and tend to fade away from those people. I guess that's why I only have a couple of close friends... because they at least make some effort, along with myself, to maintain the relationship.

Thanks, Crim.

 

[Truth Serum]

Aw, but everyone will tell you that relationships take work to succeed -- effort to maintain. Or, are you saying that everything should be easy and natural and effortless?

You sounds a bit sarcastic to me here, but I'll let that slide. Perhaps my answers to your questions are a bit "simple" and of course I apologize for my inability to explain exactly what I mean.

But, I certainly think all kinds of relationships are worth the many attempts to try and maintain it to a point where all parties are happy.

At some point, every close relationship hits a rough patch. Sometimes, an external force thrusts it upon you. Other times, it gradually decays due to neglect. Or, perhaps, it's simply a breakdown in communication -- speaking "different languages." When that happens, how specific must you be in order to get past it?

Again, all attempts should be made, non-judgmental, only helpful and healthy. Communication is very important to maintain any relationship and keep it healthy. But we all tend to tip toe around situations instead of coming right out and asking that person what is wrong, what they what, what they need. Because we fear the worst. We fear that we will be abandoned.

I am unable to tell someone: I need you to do this, this, and this. Doing so makes me distrust the response and puts me back to square one. It's like an emotional ultimatum, of sorts.

And you shouldn't tell a person that exactly. You should ask that what they want from you...and then in return, they should allow you to tell then what you want from them. Healthy communication.

you are valued, don't you think the other person(s) will invest the energy in finding out what you need? Anticipate it? Even *gasp* prevent future rough patches? Does a trial-and-error approach feel smothering to you -- or does it make you feel valued?

If every relationship came with a "How To Make It Work" manual, most self-help authors would be out of business, would they not?

Life, relationships, being proud of who you are professionally and being spiritually dedicated will help you know that you need to value YOU. Wanting this from someone else, can blow up in your face. So you need to be open...to everything. Life is chaotic. You can't always write the ending of a story first....no matter how we try, every chapter that we write can you lead you to too many twists and turns. When you find yourself at the fork in the road, you need to make your decision and learn to live with it...so what you value is your decision and your ability to make it work.

 

[impressive]

And you shouldn't tell a person that exactly. You should ask that what they want from you...and then in return, they should allow you to tell then what you want from them. Healthy communication.

Which brings us back to my first post. Where is your line in terms of not telling "a person that exactly" and having your needs/wants figured out?

 

[amicus]

Hmmm...well Truth Serum kinda stole my thunder....and welcome...Truth...to the forum...nice to see new people from time to time...

Impressive...I was going to wax a little philosophical/sociolical/ political, for a moment, the politics just as germaine, not specific...but..

We are pretty much born alone, live alone and die alone....as individuals, locked inside our very personal and private world beginning from day one.

I have drawn some conclusions, after a rather long stint here, that friends are few and far between....wannabees, who want something or need something, come and go...but a true friend is a rare thing, yes, I know, a cliche...

Men are seldom friends with other men because they end up competing, women because they tell one too many secrets (I think) and friends between men and women always turns sexual, one way or one degree or another.

I think nature provided by giving us sons and daughters who have a special relationship with parents and siblings, and then grand children who fill that empty lonliness we all have...perhaps not...

The only long term relationships I have witnessed in my lifetime have been married couples, man and woman, who manage to tolerate each other,sometimes for a half century and more and I never knew many of those...

Homo sapiens is called a 'social animal' they say we need friends, need to be around other people...not certain I agree with that fully outside family...

Thus I guess I am saying one might need to explore one's desires for 'friends' and check one's premises to see if they are valid and honest...


amicus...

 

[Truth Serum]

Which brings us back to my first post. Where is your line in terms of not telling "a person that exactly" and having your needs/wants figured out?

Forgive me, but what do you mean by "where is your line"? Maybe if I understood what you meant I can explain it.

Do you mean an imaginary line which is drawn with my foot?

Do you mean a 'line" when you see the relationship starting to dwindle?

If you have healthy communication, there is no "line" that is needed; your wants/needs should already be known.

In the beginning of any relationship we all walk around with rose colored glasses. As you explore each other emotionally, physically and intellectually, you should be able to see or know what you want from each other.

In my attempts to respond to your thread by saying how I feel and letting you know what's in my heart and head, I can only hope you are actually "hearing" me and I don't see myself backing down to your questions because I want to explore and get to know what's inside your mind as well. I'd love to know your answers to your questions.

 

[impressive]

If you have healthy communication, there is no "line" that is needed; your wants/needs should already be known.

Bingo.

However, a breakdown in communication at some level is inherent in the initial question. Thus, assuming you believe you are communicating to the best of your ability, how "specific" must you be in identifying your needs/wants before it becomes completely emotionally meaningless in terms of a genuine response? Where is that line?

 

[impressive]

In my attempts to respond to your thread by saying how I feel and letting you know what's in my heart and head, I can only hope you are actually "hearing" me and I don't see myself backing down to your questions because I want to explore and get to know what's inside your mind as well. I'd love to know your answers to your questions.

I appreciate your replies & I "hear" you. No, I don't see you as "backing down" -- but, rather, as truly attempting to understand from whence I cometh.

As for my answers -- I don't know them. I only know that ongoing failure to "figure me out" in terms of my needs/wants does eat away at my feelings for and confidence in someone.

Clear as mud?