closed Thread

[BrightShinyGirl]

What’s even more amazing, is the fact that they truly don’t seem to recognize what they’re doing.

A blind spot (hopefully that’s all it is), for sure.

I’ve read a lot of analyses of antisemitism recently. The Jew is the eternal Other—a convenient screen on which society can project what is currently hated and loathed.

In the 19th Century, we were sinister Semites who could never be integrated into European civilization. Now we’re colonists in our own Middle Eastern homeland.

Jews are sometimes evil Communists, and sometimes evil Capitalists depending on what’s currently out of fashion.

 

[Lazaran]

I’ve read a lot of analyses of antisemitism recently. The Jew is the eternal Other—a convenient screen on which society can project what is currently hated and loathed.

In the 19th Century, we were sinister Semites who could never be integrated into European civilization. Now we’re colonists in our own Middle Eastern homeland.

Jews are sometimes evil Communists, and sometimes evil Capitalists depending on what’s currently out of fashion.

Well that’s convenient…

 

[dmallord]

Graham wants Israel to nuke Gaza

Now, that makes a lot of sense.

How big is Gaza? More or less - 5 miles wide by 25 miles in length. Where the hell does that wind-blown fallout go?

The death from 2-ton bombs is already bad enough, and someone wants tactical nukes on 'what battlefield?'

 

[Rotadom]

real outrage or condemnation directed at the Hamas animal’s

why the Pro-Palestinian crowd has largely lost me.

Right.

 

[Lazaran]

Right.

Edit out all the relevant points and context and then act like a counter point was made.

Right.

 

[KeithD]

I never really considered you part of the “Pro-Palestinian” at any and all costs crowd.



I also don’t remember you posting "The Hamas ministry of health" death counts or Hamas propaganda. (Am I wrong on this point?)



From my recollection, you condemned the Hamas animals 10/7 attack, but rationalized about it being justified to an extent.



I do remember you mentioning being stationed in the region, and that you saw / knew the way things worked, which apparently grants you some authority to give the Pro-Palestinian at any and all costs crowd a free pass for condoning (at the very least) a 9/11 type attack on Israel.

Yes, I've worked Mideast issues officially--while living in the region. The most harrowing event in this experience, which I've mentioned before on the board and put in stories here (Shabbu, "Velvet Interrogation," for instance. Shabbu is a coauthored account of mine here), was being allowed to take a bus into the Shatila refugee camp in 1982 and pull out relatives of American Palestinian employees on the eve of Israel attacking the camp (which Israel had informed the U.S. secretly it would do). I'll never forget/recover from having to convince people face to face to get on a bus and leave where they were sheltering without having the permission to tell them they might be dead the next day. Some of the ones who wouldn't leave were dead the next day--because of Israeli's intent to maintain position whatever the cost was to anyone else.

No, I've never posted about the Hamas Ministry of Health. All parts of Hamas are bogus. We don't need Hamas reports to know that Palestinian civilians are being given little regard by Israel. They've been treated as subhuman by Israel since 1948.

There's no justification for the 10/7 attacks, but there are reasons why they happened--consistent Israeli suppression of the Palestinians--and there are reasons they happened where they did. These were Palestinian lands that Israeli forced the Palestinians from and settled despite agreements not to. Israel has no innocence in what caused the 10/7 attacks. Neither does Hamas.

What I have posted is that the issue is very complicated--hence no one has come up with good solutions for a century. None get a free pass. The people who were already in what is Israel when Joshua crossed the Jordan and wiped out the city of Jericho (which, yes, I've been to. Have you?) and that were invaded, killed, and displaced in the late 1940s without anyone's leave to do so get more of my regard than any other players in this tragedy. The descendants of those people are called Palestinians today. There are acts of an element of these people I abhor and don't support. But I most certainly don't support what Netanyahu is doing, which all goes back to him trying to stay in position so he personally doesn't get thrown in prison for crimes, a la Donald Trump, that's he's indicted for committing.

 

[ll74]

Yes, I've worked Mideast issues officially--while living in the region. The most harrowing event in this experience, which I've mentioned before on the board and put in stories here (Shabbu, "Velvet Interrogation," for instance. Shabbu is a coauthored account of mine here), was being allowed to take a bus into the Shatila refugee camp in 1982 and pull out relatives of American Palestinian employees on the eve of Israel attacking the camp (which Israel had informed the U.S. secretly it would do). I'll never forget/recover from having to convince people face to face to get on a bus and leave where they were sheltering without having the permission to tell them they might be dead the next day. Some of the ones who wouldn't leave were dead the next day--because of Israeli's intent to maintain position whatever the cost was to anyone else.

No, I've never posted about the Hamas Ministry of Health. All parts of Hamas are bogus. We don't need Hamas reports to know that Palestinian civilians are being given little regard by Israel. They've been treated as subhuman by Israel since 1948.

There's no justification for the 10/7 attacks, but there are reasons why they happened--consistent Israeli suppression of the Palestinians--and there are reasons they happened where they did. These were Palestinian lands that Israeli forced the Palestinians from and settled despite agreements not to. Israel has no innocence in what caused the 10/7 attacks. Neither does Hamas.

What I have posted is that the issue is very complicated--hence no one has come up with good solutions for a century. None get a free pass. The people who were already in what is Israel when Joshua crossed the Jordan and wiped out the city of Jericho (which, yes, I've been to. Have you?) and that were invaded, killed, and displaced in the late 1940s without anyone's leave to do so get more of my regard than any other players in this tragedy. The descendants of those people are called Palestinians today. There are acts of an element of these people I abhor and don't support. But I most certainly don't support what Netanyahu is doing, which all goes back to him trying to stay in position so he personally doesn't get thrown in prison for crimes, a la Donald Trump, that's he's indicted for committing.

How dare you say that both sides of the conflict deserve valid criticism!

 

[Rotadom]

Edit out all the relevant points and context and then act like a counter point was made.

Right.

I left the relevant points. You are not objective in the least. You display MAGAt levels of the defense of Israel.

 

[Lazaran]

L

Yes, I've worked Mideast issues officially--while living in the region. The most harrowing event in this experience, which I've mentioned before on the board and put in stories here (Shabbu, "Velvet Interrogation," for instance. Shabbu is a coauthored account of mine here), was being allowed to take a bus into the Shatila refugee camp in 1982 and pull out relatives of American Palestinian employees on the eve of Israel attacking the camp (which Israel had informed the U.S. secretly it would do). I'll never forget/recover from having to convince people face to face to get on a bus and leave where they were sheltering without having the permission to tell them they might be dead the next day. Some of the ones who wouldn't leave were dead the next day--because of Israeli's intent to maintain position whatever the cost was to anyone else.

No, I've never posted about the Hamas Ministry of Health. All parts of Hamas are bogus. We don't need Hamas reports to know that Palestinian civilians are being given little regard by Israel. They've been treated as subhuman by Israel since 1948.

There's no justification for the 10/7 attacks, but there are reasons why they happened--consistent Israeli suppression of the Palestinians--and there are reasons they happened where they did. These were Palestinian lands that Israeli forced the Palestinians from and settled despite agreements not to. Israel has no innocence in what caused the 10/7 attacks. Neither does Hamas.

What I have posted is that the issue is very complicated--hence no one has come up with good solutions for a century. None get a free pass. The people who were already in what is Israel when Joshua crossed the Jordan and wiped out the city of Jericho (which, yes, I've been to. Have you?) and that were invaded, killed, and displaced in the late 1940s without anyone's leave to do so get more of my regard than any other players in this tragedy. The descendants of those people are called Palestinians today. There are acts of an element of these people I abhor and don't support. But I most certainly don't support what Netanyahu is doing, which all goes back to him trying to stay in position so he personally doesn't get thrown in prison for crimes, a la Donald Trump, that's he's indicted for committing.

You are not a “Palestinians at any and all costs” zealot, but you are (imho) biased in favor of the Palestinians (Not the Israeli / Jewish “Palestinians”)

The fact that you misrepresented (to a significant degree) the Israeli’s role in the Shatila refugee camp attack / massacre, reveals a bias against Israel. The fact that you seem to ignore relentless efforts over the decades by the Palestinians and their allies to kill Jews and wipe Israel off the map when you cite “consistent Israeli suppression of the Palestinians” also indicates a bias against Israel.



I’m biased in that I support Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish majority / controlled sanctuary state for reasons already stated, and that I condemn the Hamas animal’s 10/7 rape, torture, murder, and kidnapping operation without reservation or equivocation.

 

[Lazaran]

I left the relevant points. You are not objective in the least. You display MAGAt levels of the defense of Israel.

Yeah, supporting President Biden’s policies equals "MAGAt levels of the defense of Israel."



I support the denial of certain weapons going to Israel.

I support the funding for humanitarian aid to Gaza.

I support the construction of the floating pier for aid shipments.

I support a two state solution.

I support the Israeli people removing Netanyahu and the right wing cabal from office and trying Netanyahu, etc, for corruption.

I opposed moving the American embassy in Israel to Jerusalem.

I opposed excluding the Palestinians from the Abraham Accords.

I opposed / oppose expansion of Israeli settlements.

I condemn UNPROVOKED Israeli settler violence and destruction of property.

I condemned the king MAGAt’s blanket Muslim immigration ban as racist and wrong.



Side note:

Advocating for the destruction of Hamas as a controlling political and military force in Gaza is as much Pro-Palestinian as it is Pro-Israeli.

 

[Rotadom]

Advocating for the destruction of Hamas as a controlling political and military force in Gaza is as much Pro-Palestinian as it is Pro-Israeli.

You just literally said that the Pro-Palestine crowd had lost you. Did the Pro-Israel side also lose you?

 

[Rightguide]

Nobody likes or wants the Palestinians. In the 70s the Jordanians and the Pakistanis killed tens of thousands of them:

“King Hussein (with help from Zia-ul-Haq of the Pakistani army) sent in his Bedouin army on 27 September to clear out the Palestinian bases in Jordan. A massacre of innumerable proportions ensued. Moshe Dayan noted that Hussein “killed more Palestinians in eleven days than Israel could kill in twenty years.” Dayan is right in spirit, but it is hardly the case that anyone can match the Sharonism in its brutality.”
https://www.sanskritimagazine.com/black-september-when-pakistani-army-killed-25000-palestinians/

 

[Rotadom]

Nobody likes or wants the Palestinians

More unforced errors from human garbage.

 

[ll74]

Nobody likes or wants the Palestinians. In the 70s the Jordanians and the Pakistanis killed tens of thousands of them:

“King Hussein (with help from Zia-ul-Haq of the Pakistani army) sent in his Bedouin army on 27 September to clear out the Palestinian bases in Jordan. A massacre of innumerable proportions ensued. Moshe Dayan noted that Hussein “killed more Palestinians in eleven days than Israel could kill in twenty years.” Dayan is right in spirit, but it is hardly the case that anyone can match the Sharonism in its brutality.”
https://www.sanskritimagazine.com/black-september-when-pakistani-army-killed-25000-palestinians/

And? What is the point here?

 

[KeithD]

The fact that you misrepresented (to a significant degree) the Israeli’s role in the Shatila refugee camp attack / massacre,

What in the hell are you talking about? I quite clearly know what the Israeli role was in Shatila camp attack. What in the hell do you think YOU know about it? But, no, don't answer that. I've had enough of you on this topic.

Incidentally, I agree with most of the points you make in post #5,216. But I'm fine with the U.S. embassy moving to Jerusalem. I think a country has a right to place its capital wherever on territory it controls it wants (and to take any negative response for doing so) and that foreign embassies should then be located there as well. I was all for moving out of the facility in Tel Aviv. It was a rats' warren and falling down on people's heads. And the United States had actually been doing representational work in Jerusalem for decades anyway.

 

[Lazaran]

You just literally said that the Pro-Palestine crowd had lost you. Did the Pro-Israel side also lose you?

Still fairly neutral on the Pro-Israel crowd.



If and when Israel conducts a raid similar to the Hamas animal’s October 7th rape, torture, murder, and kidnapping operation, and the Pro-Israel crowd fails to condemn it, holds rallies / celebrations, and spins things as being the victim’s fault, then, yeah, the Pro-Israel crowd would lose me as well. (Of course, the Pro-Israel crowd doesn’t exist in quite the same way as the Pro-Palestinian crowd).

 

[Lazaran]

being allowed to take a bus into the Shatila refugee camp in 1982 and pull out relatives of American Palestinian employees on the eve of Israel attacking the camp

From my understanding, it was Lebanese Christian Militias doing the “attacking”.

Was there another 1982 attack you were referring to involving the Shatila refugee camp???

And I am not being facetious.

 

[Rotadom]

If and when Israel conducts a raid similar to the Hamas animal’s October 7th rape, torture, murder, and kidnapping operation,

They have. They've even committed war crimes by bombing hospitals and food aid vehicles.

You. Are. Not. Objective.

BTW... Have you seen anyone be "pro-hamas" or are you in the babyboomer camp?

 

[Lazaran]

They have. They've even committed war crimes by bombing hospitals and food aid vehicles.

You. Are. Not. Objective.

Not. The. Same. At. All.

I was specifically talking about the initial (and continuing) horrid behavior of Pro-Palestinian supporters in the aftermath of 10/7.

 

[Rotadom]

Not. The. Same. At. All.

I was specifically talking about the initial (and continuing) horrid behavior of Pro-Palestinian supporters in the aftermath of 10/7.

What horrid behavior by Pro-Palestine supporters?

 

[Lazaran]

 

[snailspace]

Good news, Jew haters. Lebanon is attacking Israel on a daily basis inflicting casualties.Sooner or not later israel will retaliate in a massive way and And then you'll be able to scream again, but they are killing civilians.

 

[icanhelp1]

I left the relevant points. You are not objective in the least. You display MAGAt levels of the defense of Israel.

Why don't you explain or define MAGAt level defense of Israel?

 

[icanhelp1]

They have. They've even committed war crimes by bombing hospitals and food aid vehicles.

You. Are. Not. Objective.

BTW... Have you seen anyone be "pro-hamas" or are you in the babyboomer camp?

As I throw up in my mouth, Laz is spot on with its assessment.

 

[icanhelp1]

They have. They've even committed war crimes by bombing hospitals and food aid vehicles.

You. Are. Not. Objective.

BTW... Have you seen anyone be "pro-hamas" or are you in the babyboomer camp?

Can you separate Hamas from Palestinians.