closed Thread

[SlutAddicted]

Ask yourselves the question. Is the violence of a slave against a slave owner as bad or worse than the violence of a slave owner against a slave? Liberal moralists will say yes, all violence is the same, or say that the slave owner's violence is worse in words while lamenting that there isn't "peace" between slave and slave owner.

These liberals are pathetic. The Republicans of the 1860s-1870s should have been utterly ruthless during Reconstruction, merciless.

Sorry hun but that is an entirely bullshit analogy.

Israel was founded from a position of relative weakness. In 1949 they established their state and while I get the disagreement over whether that was just (no they did not invade and occupy an existing sovereign country - it is far more complex than that) at the time their only desire was to live there in peace. Every single major conflict in the ensuing years was instigated by the notionally stronger Arab nations seeking to destroy them. They were the dominant parties seeking to destroy Israel who pushed them back and eventually established a nation able to keep them at bay.

In doing so they did not seek to destroy the way their enemies did. What you see now is the underdog who had to fight to survive and rather than simply murder their enemies (the Palestinian's preferred route) is struggling to find a way to come to terms with them.

You can't just watch 10 seconds of a fight and assumes the person winning is the bad guy and the instigator because you oppose violence.

I don't think all violence is the same. That is a naive silly notion for privileged westerners. The creation of Israel was a political act, which albeit controversial was non-violent. Palestinians and their Arab neighbours initiated the violence and called for the destruction of Israel. In response Israel defended itself - they defended against the violence through multiple wars. Violence is never good but portraying them as the oppressor for being good at defending themselves from an enemy that openly intends to murder them a the first opportunity is stupid.

 

[SlutAddicted]

nope. Most of those 700k Pals self-expelled, expecting the Arab armies to win and wipe out the Jews and then they'd come back. They were mistaken. They sided with genocide, and the picked the wrong side. Sucks to be them, but, basically, tough shit.

Go back further, Becky. The Jews bought their land from the owners, legally and legitimately, and the Arabs consistently attacked them. The jews defended themselves, just as they did on independence. The Stern gang and others were a Jewish response to violence directed against them. All the wars were attacks on Israel, and Israel won.

Bulldozing homes? Justified. Killing children? Mostly the Pals doing this and blaming Israeli's. I'm consistently amazed by Israel's forbearance. The Palestinians have an amazing ability to pull defeat and death from the jaws of peace. That said, this whole mess is on Biden anyhow, just as Ukraine is. That fucker is the most dangerous president in US history. We'll be lucky if the senile old fool doesn't drag us into WW3.

Yup. War after war the Palestinians bet on the destruction of Israel and lost. And every time anyone talked peace they always want to go back to the way things were in 1948. Israel was ok with how things were in 1949. It was those dumb fucks who rolled the dice and lost.

Did they really think that Jerusalem the #1 holiest site in Judaism would be forfeited once gained because it was the #3 holiest site in Islam? What self indulgent arrogance. And let's be clear. Israel did not launch an offensive to retake Jerusalem. They took it just like everything else they have taken in battle, while defending themselves against an aggressor.

In the span a few decades Israel has encountered so many wars that it was effectively always under attack by entities whose stated goal was to wipe it off the face of the earth. Most nations would have responded far more harshly. If Gaza was Syrian, their president would have carpet bombed the whole place back to the stone age Monday morning.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Zionists sure do like to rewrite history. Israel was a brutal imperialist construct from the very beginning. Even the 1947 UN Mandate was too far, the same sort of sectarian disaster that the departing British did in India, and Israel went far, far beyond that UN Mandate. It's now so bad today that there isn't much West Bank land that the settlers haven't visited with their violence and occupation agenda.

Israel can't win in the long run. Invading Gaza and holding down a hostile population will be a nightmare for Israel, especially if Hezbollah get involved in Israel's north. The Palestinians of 1948, or their heirs, need the right to return home. End the apartheid.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Ask yourselves the question. Is the violence of a slave against a slave owner as bad or worse than the violence of a slave owner against a slave? Liberal moralists will say yes, all violence is the same, or say that the slave owner's violence is worse in words while lamenting that there isn't "peace" between slave and slave owner.

Sorry hun but that is an entirely bullshit analogy.

No. That's the exact analogy when it comes to imperialist violence against the occupied, and the occupied's violence against the imperialists. Israel are the imperialists, the equivalent of the slave owners.

Those liberals who go "Why can't there be peace?" or "Why can't there be a two state solution" don't seem to realize that Israel has destroyed the chance of a two state solution with their West Bank colonization programme and turning Gaza into a near ghetto (aka the biggest open air prison in the world) in the last 18 years. It has to be a one state solution now, and that's one Palestine for peoples of all religions and none, and an end to Zionism. It's the only answer.

 

[zipman]

I wanted to return to this.

The media is playing this up as a huge intelligence failure and the answer to that is yes..................and no. Let's look at what actually happened.

We know that Hamas is getting almost all of it's material support from Iran. Given that fact there is no reason to believe that they were not getting intelligence and planning from Iranian sources as well, primarily the Revolutionary Guard. Among the various Islamic factions Iran is probably the most organized and disciplined. We also know that Egypt gave the Israelis a 'heads up' about a month ago. That came in the nature of, "something's going on but we don't know what, where, or when." That is cause to try, and TRY is the operative word, to dig deeper, but it is NOT actionable information by itself.

So on a Jewish holiday Hamas managed to infiltrate Israel with 1000 +/- fighters in a coordinated air, land, and sea attack. (And you have to love that phrasing, makes it sound like the Marines. ) Once Hamas breached the border they basically just ran amok killing or abducting anyone and everyone they could. All covered by a massive rocket attack. The attack had no strategic objective or value, it was a tactical and political operation.

Sequestering a 1000 or so fighters out of a population of 2 million in the warren of tunnels in the Gaza Strip would have been easily accomplished thereby maintaining operational security. Further, given that there was no real plan after the border had been breached no significant amount of 'rehearsal' would have been required. The comparison of this to 9/11 is almost laughable. 9/11 was complex, long term, and had multitudes of possible security breaches, this operation was almost laughably simplistic in it's design and execution.

Now that the Israeli's are committed to combing through the Gaza to weed out Hamas the press is going on about how many Israeli's are going to die cleaning out the warren of tunnels. <shrug> Fine, let them prattle on. The Israelis aren't stupid and could do just what we did in Vietnam, flood the tunnels with propane and then light a match. Me? Given the small size of the Gaza Strip and it's proximity to the Med. I'd just get some high volume pumps and start running hoses to every tunnel entrance I found. Plenty of water, plenty of time. Flood the bastards out.

To say it wasn't a massive intelligence failure is just ridiculous. Their goal was to slaughter Israelis and take a lot of hostages (from multiple countries) that they could trade for Palestinians in Israeli jails. They absolutely accomplished that mission.

 

[zipman]

Still no proof of "beheaded babies" but intrepid reporters have identified the Israeli Mossad (CIA) as the source of that particular rumor. It should be noted that the Mossad is not above propaganda to promote its cause (or in this case, deflect attention on how badly they erred assessing Hamas aggression)

Does it really matter if they were beheaded or just slaughtered? They were babies. Ffs.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Does it really matter if they were beheaded or just slaughtered? They were babies. Ffs.

Do Israel wonder about how many Palestinian babies and children that they've killed? They shoot and kill kids for throwing stones, bulldoze their family houses to the ground, steal Palestinian resources with impunity. It's simply monstrous. They expect Palestinians to just take this forever, without any violent response. Imagine if some outside group did this to a US community. You think there wouldn't be a violent response?

 

[Lazaran]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1712541855223787581

Palestinians ARE being liberated from Hamas in Gaza as we speak.



NOBODY should be out rallying in the wake of the Hamas atrocities.



Hamas crossed a bright red line.



The anti-Hamas Palestinians in Gaza (if any truly exist) should be assisting Israeli defense forces in securing the unconditional release of the innocent hostages and in the capturing of the Hamas terrorists. - The anti-Hamas Palestinians in Gaza (if any truly exist) should have warned the Israeli’s or UN personnel in Gaza of the exact timing and location of the imminent terror attack before it started. - Apparently Egypt gave a vague warning to Israel of "something big" potentially happening, but nothing specific,



With every Pro-Palestinian - post Hamas massacre rally / celebration I see in Gaza, the West Bank, and around the world, I personally lose more sympathy for their cause.



The Hamas massacre of innocent Israeli’s is a stain and a shame on all Palestinians.



How dare they or their supporters justify, rationalize, celebrate, or try to rally support in the wake of that heinous, cowardly, Hamas terrorist attack.

JFC

SAD!!!

 

[SubzeroGirl]

Much better. I have a thing for truthiness. In any event, war is hell, right?

Nothing said or debated here on this forum has been witnessed first hand by either of us. You don’t know the truth any more than I do. You are not in Israel either seeing or not seeing the dead bodies. Everything we debate or have an opinion on is from at least second hand information. Claiming you recognize the truth is quite amazing. I’ll buy it’s what you believe to be true, which is why the debate will never end.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Palestinians ARE being liberated from Hamas in Gaza as we speak.



NOBODY should be out rallying in the wake of the Hamas atrocities.



Hamas crossed a bright red line.



The anti-Hamas Palestinians in Gaza (if any truly exist) should be assisting Israeli defense forces in securing the unconditional release of the innocent hostages and in the capturing of the Hamas terrorists. - The anti-Hamas Palestinians in Gaza (if any truly exist) should have warned the Israeli’s or UN personnel in Gaza of the exact timing and location of the imminent terror attack before it started. - Apparently Egypt gave a vague warning to Israel of "something big" potentially happening, but nothing specific,



With every Pro-Palestinian - post Hamas massacre / rally / celebration I see in Gaza, the West Bank, and around the world, I personally lose more sympathy for their cause.



The Hamas massacre of innocent Israeli’s is a stain and a shame on all Palestinians.



How dare they or their supporters justify, rationalize, celebrate, or try to rally support in the wake of that heinous, cowardly, Hamas terrorist attack.

JFC

SAD!!!

I can't say that I'm surprised at all at which side you're backing

Then again, you're someone who keeps glorifying Ukraine and isn't at all put off by neonazi presence there in the Ukrainian national guard since 2014, and killing 13,000 ethnic Russians in the Donbass before the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Does it really matter if they were beheaded or just slaughtered? They were babies. Ffs.

Civilian casualties always invoke visceral reactions.
Jon Stewart said it best

https://twitter.com/x/status/1712481463558692954

 

[Lazaran]

I can't say that I'm surprised at all at which side you're backing

Then again, you're someone who keeps glorifying Ukraine and isn't at all put off by neonazi presence there in the Ukrainian national guard since 2014, and killing 13,000 ethnic Russians in the Donbass before the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

^
(Quoted for posterity and stupidity)

"Becky" shouldn’t be surprised when a decent, intelligent individual is consistent in their views on heinous aggression and the crossing of bright red lines.

Russia (Putin) crossed bright red lines multiple times, and so has Hamas.

A decent, intelligent American does NOT hold hard, fast views on the - obscured by time and competing historians - current sovereignty designations of particular territories and borders

A decent, intelligent American DOES hold hard, fast views on the inherent wrongness of what Hamas did in their heinous, murderous, terrorist attack on Israel, and their kidnapping of innocents.

That ^ goes double for Russia’s (Putin’s) heinous, murderous, terrorist attacks on Ukraine.

Side note:

The above does NOT indicate any ABSOLUTE support for Israel; and it certainly does NOT indicate ANY support for the corrupt Netanyahu and the newly elected far right wing cabal.

*nods*

And cautious optimism about a democratic future for Ukraine does NOT indicate an ABSOLUTE support for Ukraine;; and certainly does NOT indicate ANY support for the tiny “neonazi” faction that is present.

*nods*

Hope that ^ helps.



"Becky"

 

[ChloeTzang]

The Israeli Ministry of Defense and the General Headquarters of the IDF are reported to have notified the United Nations last night to evacuate its Staff and other Personnel from the Northern Gaza Strip as well as to inform any Palestinians who are still Living anywhere North of the Wadi Gaza Nature Reserve to also Evacuate within the next 24 Hours.

Israel has advised 1,100,000 people in Northern Gaza to evacuate south within 24 hours as it prepares to launch massive ground assault in response to Hamas massacre. Israel's military sent one evacuation order directly on Friday morning, telling everyone living north of an area called Wadi Gaza to move south. This would mean the entire population of Gaza City and its surroundings fleeing their homes. Awfully nice of the Israeli's to give a heads up like that, giving innocents a chance to escape the coming violence.

A Hamas official called the evacuation order 'fake propaganda', and urged Palestinians to stay in their homes and not to 'fall for it'. LOL. Hamas trying to create a mass casualty event.

The broad evacuation warning received for all of Gaza's north also applies to all UN staff and to the hundreds of thousands who have taken shelter in UN schools and other facilities since Israel launched round-the-clock airstrikes. "The Hamas terrorist organisation waged a war against the state of Israel and Gaza City is an area where military operations are taking place," and IDF spokesperson said.

Start walking, dudes. Because this isn't fake.

 

[ChloeTzang]

The last sight for a lot of Hamas members and anyone near them.....

 

[icanhelp1]

Crypto

The problem you have is that all humans are human beings and you don't like that , because you see certain humans as animals,..it's difficult to see other perspectives.

Just the opposite, I see humans as humans and the response by the Israelis is a typical response when humans are hurt by others. Hamas are animals. I’ve actually agreed with you on most of your points. I disagree with you the fact that babies were beheaded is unverivied. The press, for the sanctity of the babies and in reverence for loved ones, were perhaps not allowed to take gruesome pictures of beheaded corpses of babies. An Israeli general at the site did publicly state that as fact. Questioning the validity of his statement because photos don’t exist or accusing people of making it up to further enrage people is disingenuous. Pictures of a mother shot dead with the dead fetus dangling outside her body as if cut out of her body does make it easy for me to believe that Hamas was very capable of committing those atrocities towards babies. There was enough carnage that for me it doesn’t make a difference. Whole families burned alive is all I need.

 

[icanhelp1]

Palestinians ARE being liberated from Hamas in Gaza as we speak.



NOBODY should be out rallying in the wake of the Hamas atrocities.



Hamas crossed a bright red line.



The anti-Hamas Palestinians in Gaza (if any truly exist) should be assisting Israeli defense forces in securing the unconditional release of the innocent hostages and in the capturing of the Hamas terrorists. - The anti-Hamas Palestinians in Gaza (if any truly exist) should have warned the Israeli’s or UN personnel in Gaza of the exact timing and location of the imminent terror attack before it started. - Apparently Egypt gave a vague warning to Israel of "something big" potentially happening, but nothing specific,



With every Pro-Palestinian - post Hamas massacre / rally / celebration I see in Gaza, the West Bank, and around the world, I personally lose more sympathy for their cause.



The Hamas massacre of innocent Israeli’s is a stain and a shame on all Palestinians.



How dare they or their supporters justify, rationalize, celebrate, or try to rally support in the wake of that heinous, cowardly, Hamas terrorist attack.

JFC

SAD!!!

I 100% agree with you. Well written.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

It’s Templar Friday!
Happy Global Day of Jihad!
Nothing says kill the Jews like a Party!

Well, I don’t know why I support Islam
I’ve got the feeling that something ain’t right
I’m so scared I think I’ll fall off my lectern.
And I’m wondering how they’ll get their virgins.
Nazis to the Left of me apologists to right
Here I am stuck in the middle with Jew

Bill Maher Democrats are starting to get a sense of the domestic collateral damage to their Party…

It’s beginning on the campuses and gaining strength. It’s called anti-semitism. It’s fall back position,
We love Jews! We just hate Israel. This isn’t religion, this is oppression.
This is occupation, apartheid. It’s pure raw hate
And we hate it.

We don’t care if there are a few instances of collateral damage in such a conflict unless, of course it is a war crime if a single hair if a child in the Gaza Strip is harmed, and on and on and on.

One good thing. Some law firms are pushing back and not hiring these kids who sign positions and support the pogrom.
Prediction? Pre-law students suing over their First Amendment Rights and discrimination in employment.

I hope more employers refuse to hire lovers of genocide.

~~~~~~

Will we spend decades hunting down the animals who could do such inhuman things in the name of a final solution, try them Geneva, treat them decently, feed them decently and then hang them decently, or will we treat them, as some are already doing as heroes and martyrs?

I know what the Left would do.
Those people vote Democrat.
Republicans are evil Nazis…

#We’reAllNazisNow
#PogromNotes

 

[JoePepsiCo]

Hmmm… Nobody wants the peaceful, evacuated “refugees” of Israeli atrocities, just like any Big Blue City. It’s all just big talk.

Does it have anything to do with the Hamas leadership dressing in civilian clothes and joining them to live and fight another day leaving their indoctrinated and their hostages to be the face of Martyrdom in this mostly peaceful protest that’s not antisemitic, just anti-Nazi State? You’d think that Donald Trump had taken up residence in the Capital City of Jerusalem.

#We’reAllNazisNow
#PogromNotes

 

[ChloeTzang]

Just the opposite, I see humans as humans and the response by the Israelis is a typical response when humans are hurt by others. Hamas are animals. I’ve actually agreed with you on most of your points. I disagree with you the fact that babies were beheaded is unverivied. The press, for the sanctity of the babies and in reverence for loved ones, were perhaps not allowed to take gruesome pictures of beheaded corpses of babies. An Israeli general at the site did publicly state that as fact. Questioning the validity of his statement because photos don’t exist or accusing people of making it up to further enrage people is disingenuous. Pictures of a mother shot dead with the dead fetus dangling outside her body as if cut out of her body does make it easy for me to believe that Hamas was very capable of committing those atrocities towards babies. There was enough carnage that for me it doesn’t make a difference. Whole families burned alive is all I need.

Yep. 100%. And anyone that disagrees exposes themselves for what they are.

The good thing about all this is that the Hamas supporters and their ilk are all coming out into the open now. Pustulant slugs emerging from under their rocks to expose their slime to the light of day. It's becoming increasingly obvious to many people who the enemies of civilization are, and it's becoming increasingly obvious what we need to do and that we need to be ruthless about doing it.

 

[Chobham]

Yep. 100%. And anyone that disagrees exposes themselves for what they are.

The good thing about all this is that the Hamas supporters and their ilk are all coming out into the open now. Pustulant slugs emerging from under their rocks to expose their slime to the light of day. It's becoming increasingly obvious to many people who the enemies of civilization are, and it's becoming increasingly obvious what we need to do and that we need to be ruthless about doing it.

My goodness, that isn't gong to sit well with the 'Kumbaya" crowd. On the other hand maybe some of the more radical 'woke' crowd will learn something from this experience.

 

[ll74]

Get over yourself. You know very well what I mean. You're not a dumb fuck like Becky

I know that this thread is about the conflict between Hamas and Israel.

 

[icanhelp1]

Yep. 100%. And anyone that disagrees exposes themselves for what they are.

The good thing about all this is that the Hamas supporters and their ilk are all coming out into the open now. Pustulant slugs emerging from under their rocks to expose their slime to the light of day. It's becoming increasingly obvious to many people who the enemies of civilization are, and it's becoming increasingly obvious what we need to do and that we need to be ruthless about doing it.

Most of these college protesters are self entitled ignorant brats. They’re all standing there for one purpose and one purpose only “ LOOK AT ME I’M SO SELF RIGHTEOUS“ I’m so much better than thou attitude is sickening. Biden wants to pay off their student debt. Fuck that.

 

[Chobham]

Most of these college protesters are self entitled ignorant brats. They’re all standing there for one purpose and one purpose only “ LOOK AT ME I’M SO SELF RIGHTEOUS“ I’m so much better than thou attitude is sickening. Biden wants to pay off their student debt. Fuck that.

Pay them off with 40 acres and a mule. I know exactly where the 40 acres will be allotted. The mules might be a problem though.

 

[ll74]

Did they really think that Jerusalem the #1 holiest site in Judaism would be forfeited once gained because it was the #3 holiest site in Islam? What self indulgent arrogance. And let's be clear. Israel did not launch an offensive to retake Jerusalem. They took it just like everything else they have taken in battle, while defending themselves against an aggressor.

The thing about Jerusalem is that it's a holy site for multiple religions. It would be good to just make it a non owned place that anyone can visit and no one controls...but religion is dumb

 

[ll74]

Zionists sure do like to rewrite history. Israel was a brutal imperialist construct from the very beginning. Even the 1947 UN Mandate was too far, the same sort of sectarian disaster that the departing British did in India, and Israel went far, far beyond that UN Mandate. It's now so bad today that there isn't much West Bank land that the settlers haven't visited with their violence and occupation agenda.

Israel can't win in the long run. Invading Gaza and holding down a hostile population will be a nightmare for Israel, especially if Hezbollah get involved in Israel's north. The Palestinians of 1948, or their heirs, need the right to return home. End the apartheid.

Hamas attacked Israel. Hope this helps.