closed Thread

[Chobham]

Sorry, you're correct. Israel's use of white phosphorus was a war crime. According to reports - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...us-weapons-gaza-human-rights-group-rcna120272

Thanks for helping me clarify.

Bullshit reports subject to investigations, right?

The civilian population was given 24hrs to evacuate the area, if they didn't, too bad. Technically at the end of that grace period the area became a free fire zone. That "human rights" commission sitting on it's ass in NYC watching video's can go fuck themselves.

 

[ll74]

Under protocol 3 - prohibition of use of certain conventional weapons - using willy pete in heavily built up civilian areas is a war crime, as has been pointed out to Russian time and time again with regard to Ukraine. Russia ignores this as they haven't signed protocol 3 of the convention on the prohibition of use of certain conventional weapons, which has largely only been signed by foolish western governments as a feel good thing for the lefties. Real militaries realize war is war and you need to fight with everything available, including anti-personnel mines, cluster munitions and yes, white phosphorous.

Israel has denied using WP in Gaza. Israel’s military initially said it was “currently not aware of the use of weapons containing white phosphorus in Gaza”. Later, it hardened its response, saying: “The current accusation … regarding the use of white phosphorus in Gaza is unequivocally false.”

White phosphorus is considered an incendiary weapon under protocol 3 of the convention on the prohibition of use of certain conventional weapons. The protocol prohibits using incendiary weapons against military targets located among civilians, although Israel has not signed it and is not bound by it. Ergo, there is NO war crime. Israel has not signed the protocol, is not bound by it, and therefore, even if white phosphorous was used, no war crime has been committed.

It may be horrible (war is). You may not like it and you may cry a river of tears over it, but it is NOT a war crime. Suck it up and put your big boy panties on. It's a war. Wars are in fact horrible and they result in horrible suffering. That's reality.

So you're saying that it's cool because everybody else is doing it and because they didn't sign on.

Got it

Then why would Hamas committing war crimes matter?

You can't tell people that a certain rule applies to them when you ignore said rules yourself

 

[ChloeTzang]

You spelled Netanyahu wrong.

Fours years of peace in the Middle East under Trump. Renewed war and chaos under Biden. Biden has given $2 billion to Taliban since we pulled out. He tried to give $6 billion to Iran. He gave $250,000,000 to Hamas just before this latest shit. The FBI is now warning Americans to be on alert for copycat terror attacks. After opening the border and letting in millions of illegals.

Jeez, Biden even needs Jill to rescue him and show him how to get off a stage. The puppet masters must be laughing their heads off. And people like you believe all their bullshit.

No more needs saying.

 

[JohnnySavage]

I spent the Summer of 1989 sitting in an observation shack in the Golan Heights.

I really don't see the point of fighting over that piece of worthless wasteland.

Religion is funny.

 

[ChloeTzang]

So you're saying that it's cool because everybody else is doing it and because they didn't sign on.

Got it

Then why would Hamas committing war crimes matter?

You can't tell people that a certain rule applies to them when you ignore said rules yourself

Nope. You're trying to figure out how many angels can dance on the point of a needle. Pointless exercise. The two are not in any way correlatable.

WP is not very cool at all. But Israel using it is NOT a war crime.

Hamas committed actual warcrimes in massacring, torturing and raping civilians. THAT is covered, and there are no ifs, buts or maybes. That IS a war crime.

Hope that helps.

 

[ChloeTzang]

https://media2.giphy.com/media/l0Iy8eFPytxbDGHbG/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952yp3fqpqrc2q09ey5uj3ksdfy3j8mvgs9mb2ehwp5&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

Story from family living in Haifa, Israel:

"Dad what was that?"

Well son, it says here in the paper that Iran has developed a nuclear
bomb and are probably testing one here in Israel because they don't
like Americans and Jews. Nothing to worry about though. Looks like
it exploded north of us about twenty miles away.

Angry mother interjects, "Nothing to worry about? That nuclear bomb
from Iran apparently landed on the Walmart where I do my shopping!"

Father replies, "Don't worry about it honey. Walmart will build another
one. Anyway I'm off to work. Everybody have a nice day."

Angry mother interjects again, "There goes another bomb explosion and
it was closer this time!"

Father replies, "On second thought maybe I should stay home today."

Fifteen minutes late Iran evaporates as a couple of hundred Israeli nuclear bombs detonate.

 

[ll74]

Nope. You're trying to figure out how many angels can dance on the point of a needle. Pointless exercise. The two are not in any way correlatable.

WP is not very cool at all. But Israel using it is NOT a war crime.

Hamas committed actual warcrimes in massacring, torturing and raping civilians. THAT is covered, and there are no ifs, buts or maybes. That IS a war crime.

Hope that helps.

If using white phosphorus in a certain proximity to citizens is a war crime, then it is.

I'm not denying that Hamas' attack was a war crime. But if your answer is "well, Israel never signed on" to the docunent that defines war crimes...then Hamas committing acts from that document has the same validity. Pick a lane......if the reports of them using it are correct, then it would be a war crime. And they've committed crimes in the past...

All that being said, I absolutely agree that Israel is taking great care to avoid civilian deaths and impact while Hamas is not.

 

[ChloeTzang]

If using white phosphorus in a certain proximity to citizens is a war crime, then it is.

I'm not denying that Hamas' attack was a war crime. But if your answer is "well, Israel never signed on" to the docunent that defines war crimes...then Hamas committing acts from that document has the same validity. Pick a lane......if the reports of them using it are correct, then it would be a war crime. And they've committed crimes in the past...

All that being said, I absolutely agree that Israel is taking great care to avoid civilian deaths and impact while Hamas is not.

Israel did not sign the protocol regarding using in proximity to civilians or in a built up area. So even if they did use wp (debatable), it's NOT a war crime.

Killing civilians IS a war crime in the context that Hamas killed them in. It's really clear cut.

By contrast, the latest Daily Mail headline is

Executed without pity: Shocking moment wounded female Israeli soldiers cowering under a table after being injured by a grenade are shot dead by Hamas gunmen​

THAT is NOT a war crime. They were soldiers. If you can't take prisoners, and in a combat situation, often you can't, you are entitled tp finish them off. In this context, Hamas did not commit a war crime. Again, headlines can make it sound like one, but it's not. It's legitimate.

The rules of war are actually quite simple. It's idiots that make them sound more complicated than they are, more often that not for political reasons.

And yes, I agree. Israel IS

taking great care to avoid civilian deaths and impact while Hamas is not.

We have many views that overlap and a few that don't.

And hey, I gotta start work. Have a nice day, enjoy your coffee, aand resume this evening.

 

[ll74]

Israel did not sign the protocol regarding using in proximity to civilians or in a built up area. So even if they did use wp (debatable), it's NOT a war crime.

Lol...ok

Killing civilians IS a war crime in the context that Hamas killed them in. It's really clear cut.

Did Hamas sign onto that protocol?

By contrast, the latest Daily Mail headline is

Executed without pity: Shocking moment wounded female Israeli soldiers cowering under a table after being injured by a grenade are shot dead by Hamas gunmen​

THAT is NOT a war crime. They were soldiers. If you can't take prisoners, and in a combat situation, often you can't, you are entitled tp finish them off. In this context, Hamas did not commit a war crime. Again, headlines can make it sound like one, but it's not. It's legitimate.

The rules of war are actually quite simple. It's idiots that make them sound more complicated than they are, more often that not for political reasons.

Unless you don't sign onto the protocol, then you're cool

 

[jaF0]

Israel has denied using WP in Gaza. Israel’s military initially said ...

... we don't know anything about any of that stuff. We never met it. We don't even know the name. We have never heard of it. No matter how many pictures you have of us with it.

 

[silky52]

And many of the Arab nations want Gaza the way it is. They want those people they're suffering for all the world to see so that they can preserve their antipathy towards Israel. That is why those countries have refused to take them in and that is why Egypt refuses to open the border crossing now.

Thank you for your insight. I think that Egypt has now opened the crossing at Rafeah. Hopefully, all will be well.

 

[ll74]

The level of stupidity from those blaming Biden for this is hysterical.

Blaming 45 or 46 is dumb...but also not what this thread is about.

 

[silky52]

Israel did not sign the protocol regarding using in proximity to civilians or in a built up area. So even if they did use wp (debatable), it's NOT a war crime.

Killing civilians IS a war crime in the context that Hamas killed them in. It's really clear cut.

By contrast, the latest Daily Mail headline is

Executed without pity: Shocking moment wounded female Israeli soldiers cowering under a table after being injured by a grenade are shot dead by Hamas gunmen​

THAT is NOT a war crime. They were soldiers. If you can't take prisoners, and in a combat situation, often you can't, you are entitled tp finish them off. In this context, Hamas did not commit a war crime. Again, headlines can make it sound like one, but it's not. It's legitimate.

The rules of war are actually quite simple. It's idiots that make them sound more complicated than they are, more often that not for political reasons.

And yes, I agree. Israel IS

We have many views that overlap and a few that don't.

And hey, I gotta start work. Have a nice day, enjoy your coffee, aand resume this evening.

They may have been soldiers, but I'm sure they were begging for their lives. There was no need for Hamas to 'kill' them. It may not be a war crime, but this is a war crime: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...rops-Gaza-leaflets-telling-citizens-flee.html

 

[silky52]

... we don't know anything about any of that stuff. We never met it. We don't even know the name. We have never heard of it. No matter how many pictures you have of us with it.

Where are you getting your information from?

 

[ll74]

To close out my point regarding war crimes - I'm not saying that signing a document or not is what matters. Saying Hamas has committed atrocities here is warranted and obvious. Doing so while saying that Israel has been squeaky clean retracts from the effectiveness of that statement

We should be warning and expecting all parties of war to take extra care. I do believe Israel is making a good faith effort in doing that and that Hamas is actually taking action detrimental to all involved

 

[silky52]

Stop giving support, weapons and aid to Israel. Put massive pressure on them to stop their warmongering and occupation BS. They must immediately be made to withdraw all Israeli settlements completely from the West Bank and end any blockades there and in Gaza.

Better still, end the Zionist project completely and live in Palestine as one people of all religions and none.


Israel don't want to live in peace and never have. Israel was built over the expulsion of over 700,000 Palestinians from their land. Israel is the occupying power, brutally oppressing the Palestinian population. Do you get that?


Go back centuries, and "Arab culture" in the Middle East was very civilized indeed compared to "Christian culture" in European countries. Israel is a brutal occupying imperialist power. That violence is far and above anything that Hamas does, thousands of times over at least.


Israel has blockaded Gaza. They have turned it into an open air prison, a ghetto, call it what you like.


Ah yes. The Oslo Accords that Israel used, after Yitzhak Rabin's death anyway, to pass the buck of opposing the Palestinian fighters from Israel proper to the "Palestinian Authority", while Israel proceeds to build more settlements on Palestinian land, or does propaganda methods like pulling out of Gaza and then turning the place into an open air prison that is blockaded.


They shoot Palestinian kids for throwing stones, bulldoze Palestinian houses to the ground etc. Yes, I support oppressed peoples against imperialist crimes. It is vile and monstrous what Israel is doing.

You are totally incorrect, and your information if one can call it that here shows just how incorrect you are. Get your facts right before you start spouting Palestinian propaganda.

 

[SlutAddicted]

You've turned reality on its head there, desperately trying to paint the Palestinians as the oppressors. Nobody who can think for themselves is fooled.

I'm not painting the Palestinians as oppressors. They aren't. Israel is oppressing Gaza, but they aren't doing it for shits and giggles. They are doing it because Hamas has left them no choice.

Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. They do not want a resolution. They do not want peace. They are doing everything in their power - including putting their own people in harm's way - to trigger wider confrontation with the sole goal of the eradication of Israel.

 

[silky52]

I'm not painting the Palestinians as oppressors. They aren't. Israel is oppressing Gaza, but they aren't doing it for shits and giggles. They are doing it because Hamas has left them no choice.

Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. They do not want a resolution. They do not want peace. They are doing everything in their power - including putting their own people in harm's way - to trigger wider confrontation with the sole goal of the eradication of Israel.

Exactly! They don't care about their own people. They are used as human shields!

 

[policywank]

I'm not painting the Palestinians as oppressors. They aren't. Israel is oppressing Gaza, but they aren't doing it for shits and giggles. They are doing it because Hamas has left them no choice.

Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. They do not want a resolution. They do not want peace. They are doing everything in their power - including putting their own people in harm's way - to trigger wider confrontation with the sole goal of the eradication of Israel.

That is the thing that some people don't seem to understand. Hamas does not want to live side-by-side in peace no matter how borders or nations are configured. If the Israelis put down their guns they will be slaughtered - that has been the promise of the Arab world from the outset.

Meanwhile those who support the Palestinians want to paint Israel as the Johnny come lately colonizer. Whatever one thinks of how Israel was created they are not new here. Their claim to the land goes back thousands of years. Control of this area has switched between many different groups going back well over three thousand years (when King David established Jerusalem as the centre of the Jewish world). The Arabic dismissal of them is rooted in religious zealotry and arrogance - they have been told that Islam supersedes all other Abrahamic religions and therefore the Jews claim is invalid in their minds.

 

[jaF0]

Their claim to the land goes back thousands of years. Control of this area has switched between many different groups going back well over three thousand years

Which is why the U.S. and all other 'western' countries need to stay the hell out of this and let them hash it out among themselves.

 

[ChloeTzang]

A little humor to lighten everyone's mood. Just because it's a war doesn't mean we can't laugh...

 

[Fuzzy1975]

A little humor to lighten everyone's mood. Just because it's a war doesn't mean we can't laugh...

View attachment 2280541

It's so nice how you want to bring humour to a situation where innocent people are getting killed. Fits you to a T.

 

[icanhelp1]

Nope. You're trying to figure out how many angels can dance on the point of a needle. Pointless exercise. The two are not in any way correlatable.

WP is not very cool at all. But Israel using it is NOT a war crime.

Hamas committed actual warcrimes in massacring, torturing and raping civilians. THAT is covered, and there are no ifs, buts or maybes. That IS a war crime.

Hope that helps.

I’m not so sure Hamas committed war crimes, they weren’t technically in a war. I would lean towards crimes against humanity which is more of an issue which I believe comes under the international courts, Hague convention and the Geneva Convention. I believe crimes against humanity follows a different criteria for prosecution. IMHO

 

[icanhelp1]

Israel did not sign the protocol regarding using in proximity to civilians or in a built up area. So even if they did use wp (debatable), it's NOT a war crime.

Killing civilians IS a war crime in the context that Hamas killed them in. It's really clear cut.

By contrast, the latest Daily Mail headline is

Executed without pity: Shocking moment wounded female Israeli soldiers cowering under a table after being injured by a grenade are shot dead by Hamas gunmen​

THAT is NOT a war crime. They were soldiers. If you can't take prisoners, and in a combat situation, often you can't, you are entitled tp finish them off. In this context, Hamas did not commit a war crime. Again, headlines can make it sound like one, but it's not. It's legitimate.

The rules of war are actually quite simple. It's idiots that make them sound more complicated than they are, more often that not for political reasons.

And yes, I agree. Israel IS

We have many views that overlap and a few that don't.

And hey, I gotta start work. Have a nice day, enjoy your coffee, aand resume this evening.

We all know that Israel is held to a higher standard, there comes a time though when they have to shitcan world opinion and take care of business.

 

[ll74]

We all know that Israel is held to a higher standard, there comes a time though when they have to shitcan world opinion and take care of business.

There is never a time when Israel should indiscriminately retaliate. They are held to a higher standard because they are not terrorists and have publicly stated as such.