closed Thread

[StrentWriter]

public Israeli diplomacy—or propaganda in a lot of cases.

All cases.

 

[butters]

Which is unique to the Israelis and somehow a pejorative???

I believe the term might be specific to Israel but don't know

propaganda? no, of course it's not unique to Israel; I'm not that naive.

a perjorative? sure, when it's referencing the deliberate misinformation spread through social and public media by the neatanyahu administration. Just like using the term maga when applying it to the public face of ignorance in trump's America.

 

[butters]

All cases.

I was specific in my wording as I don't have the breadth of information available to me to confirm it as 'all.' It is wise to question the message and motives of any gov't but I refuse to be drawn into such widespread sweeping statements as 'all cases.'

 

[Lazaran]

I believe the term might be specific to Israel but don't know

propaganda? no, of course it's not unique to Israel; I'm not that naive.

a perjorative? sure, when it's referencing the deliberate misinformation spread through social and public media by the neatanyahu administration. Just like using the term maga when applying it to the public face of ignorance.

Is there an equivalent pejorative term for what the "Palestinians" and their more fervent supporters constantly do???



It seems like the poster who hurled “hasbara” at me felt the term carried some extra amount of weight / validity, and I wish I could respond in kind…



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

I believe the term might be specific to Israel but don't know

propaganda? no, of course it's not unique to Israel; I'm not that naive.

a perjorative? sure, when it's referencing the deliberate misinformation spread through social and public media by the neatanyahu administration. Just like using the term maga when applying it to the public face of ignorance in trump's America.

This image is currently making the rounds to illustrate the plight of the "starving" Gazans. Unfortunately the Arab photographer forgot to crop out the two giggling girls at the top of the shot. (Circled in yellow). There's lots of anti-Israel propaganda being spread, and people who should know better in the west are falling for it.

 

[butters]

This image is currently making the rounds to illustrate the plight of the "starving" Gazans. Unfortunately the Arab photographer forgot to crop out the two giggling girls at the top of the shot. (Circled in yellow). There's lots of anti-Israel propaganda being spread, and people who should know better in the west are falling for it.

View attachment 2554625

one still photo cannot begin to show the depth and breadth of the tragedy surrounding Gazan population right now. This particular photo shows a snapshot of the human condition.

I have seen hours of footage from a plethora of sources and, on the face of it, two giggling girls who have found something to smile about despite everything does nothing to dispel the grotesque reality of the starving, sick, and desperate people.

Further to this, far longer photo documentaries of the situations and events in gaza are far harder to dismiss than a photo 'doing the rounds' and whose origins are neither quoted nor verified. It is exactly the kind of material that could indicate an image deliberately doctored to 'deny' the horrific realities and put out on social media to 'do the rounds.' Without further verification of the image, and given my second paragraph, it isn't 'safe' to draw ANY certain conclusions from it.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

one still photo cannot begin to show the depth and breadth of the tragedy surrounding Gazan population right now. This particular photo shows a snapshot of the human condition.

I have seen hours of footage from a plethora of sources and, on the face of it, two giggling girls who have found something to smile about despite everything does nothing to dispel the grotesque reality of the starving, sick, and desperate people.

Further to this, far longer photo documentaries of the situations and events in gaza are far harder to dismiss than a photo 'doing the rounds' and whose origins are neither quoted nor verified. It is exactly the kind of material that could indicate an image deliberately doctored to 'deny' the horrific realities and put out on social media to 'do the rounds.' Without further verification of the image, and given my second paragraph, it isn't 'safe' to draw ANY certain conclusions from it.

Did you watch the debunked BBC documentary about Gaza?

 

[butters]

Did you watch the debunked BBC documentary about Gaza?

not yet

I refuse to accept apologies for the atrocities of the IDF just the same as those for Hamas

 

[StrentWriter]

I was specific in my wording as I don't have the breadth of information available to me to confirm it as 'all.' It is wise to question the message and motives of any gov't but I refuse to be drawn into such widespread sweeping statements as 'all cases.'

Please find me one case in the last two years where an Israeli claim in this war was shown to be correct. I’ll wait.

40 beheaded babies? Lie, debunked.
Babies burned in oven? Lie, debunked.
Mass rape? UN couldn’t prove it - asked for Israel to provide its evidence - which it refused to do.
London Underground of tunnels in Gaza? To date we’ve seen four or five videos of tunnels, most of which were debunked, particularly those near hospitals.
Paper on wall of hospital declaring guards of Israeli prisoners? Turned out to be a calendar written in Arabic.

Meanwhile we have:

Mass starvation
Mass shootings
Mass mutilation
Mass destruction
Gang rape of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails - fucking filmed, and shown worldwide, for fucks sake -

And you’re asking me to not generalise all Israeli claims as lies when pro-Israelis generalise all Palestinians as “non innocents”, “all Hamas”, all legitimate targets of “war” (genocide)?

Seriously Butters - go do some reading. The levels of depravity of the state of Israel is obscene.

 

[StrentWriter]

This image is currently making the rounds to illustrate the plight of the "starving" Gazans. Unfortunately the Arab photographer forgot to crop out the two giggling girls at the top of the shot. (Circled in yellow). There's lots of anti-Israel propaganda being spread, and people who should know better in the west are falling for it.

View attachment 2554625

You’re a fucking monster, you know that?

It’s a fucking snapshot. You don’t know the context of their smiles. They’re allowed to smile, they might actually get a meal after two years of a heinous medieval blockade.

Fucking horrific, cunty monster you are. Fuck right off.

 

[StrentWriter]

Did you watch the debunked BBC documentary about Gaza?

You really are a fucking nutjob.

It wasn’t “debunked” it was fucking awful to watch because it confirmed there’s a genocide taking place.

The bit you think makes it “debunkable” is that the child chosen to narrate the piece is the son of a member of the Hamas run agriculture ministry - a government official - of which in a 25 mile long and 5 mile wide strip of land with 2.3 million people in it, virtually EVERYONE has a link to the governing group and the civil infrastructure.

What this shows is:

You’re a fucking hasbara monster

Get in the fucking bin

You absolute ghoul.

 

[Setanta84]

If you support Israel at this point, you're a morally deranged piece of shit.

 

[StrentWriter]

If you support Israel at this point, you're a morally deranged piece of shit.

Totally agree, and my patience for the continuous steady stream of hasbara and misinformation and nazi level dehumanisation of the Palestinians has run out.

Everyone with a brain and a modicum of intelligence recognises this as a genocide. Anyone who doesn’t is complicit, frankly.

And they can get in the fucking bin alongside the Nazis.

 

[butters]

Please find me one case in the last two years where an Israeli claim in this war was shown to be correct. I’ll wait.

40 beheaded babies? Lie, debunked.
Babies burned in oven? Lie, debunked.
Mass rape? UN couldn’t prove it - asked for Israel to provide its evidence - which it refused to do.
London Underground of tunnels in Gaza? To date we’ve seen four or five videos of tunnels, most of which were debunked, particularly those near hospitals.
Paper on wall of hospital declaring guards of Israeli prisoners? Turned out to be a calendar written in Arabic.

don't wait, I have neither the time nor the ability to determine with certainty that anything put forth by either hamas or the idf is 100% truthful, lies or some blend of both. This is why the reading I do, and I do some, comes from deliberately diverse sources as well as those I tend to trust due to their reporting records.

I am with you that so much of what Israel has claimed (and I say Israel as opposed to Israelis in general as by the former I refer to its governing body/policies) is bullshit, either magnified or completely invented for a strategic purpose.

Meanwhile we have:

Mass starvation
Mass shootings
Mass mutilation
Mass destruction
Gang rape of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails - fucking filmed, and shown worldwide, for fucks sake -

I'm not arguing the veracity of these facts since I agree with the evidence, the opinion of the WHO, UNWRA, the UN, the 25 countries who signed an open letter to Israel demanding it stop its genocide, and the countless doctors, aid workers, teachers, soldiers, and general public's statements iterating the devastating and criminal acts taking place there. I also accept and fully condemn the horrific massacre of innocent Israeli civilians on Oct. 7th. Hamas needs to be obliterated, but hamas does not equal the Palestinian population enmasse. I cannot be sure how much of those claims were true or debunked, but the very fact ANY of those terrible attacks took place cannot be condoned. It is also moot, imo, that the scale of Israel's punishment of those crimes is massively out of proportion—and that netanyahu has used it as an excuse to supercharge Israel's real intention which is to eradicate all Palestinians from their land so Israel can consume it. Eradication can take the form of murdering, moving them out, allowing them to succumb to sickness and starvation and deprivation of infrastructure that makes it possible for them to function and survive as a nation.

And you’re asking me to not generalise all Israeli claims as lies when pro-Israelis generalise all Palestinians as “non innocents”, “all Hamas”, all legitimate targets of “war” (genocide)?

I'm not asking anything of you. At all. I thought I was quite clear that what I posted reflected on me, not on anyone else. You do you but I will do me. My pov is far more aligned with your own as I know what I see and hear and base evaluations I make on a spread of sources, even while accepting more information—verified information—could impact those evaluations.

 

[Lazaran]

one still photo cannot begin to show the depth and breadth of the tragedy surrounding Gazan population right now. This particular photo shows a snapshot of the human condition.

I have seen hours of footage from a plethora of sources and, on the face of it, two giggling girls who have found something to smile about despite everything does nothing to dispel the grotesque reality of the starving, sick, and desperate people.

Further to this, far longer photo documentaries of the situations and events in gaza are far harder to dismiss than a photo 'doing the rounds' and whose origins are neither quoted nor verified. It is exactly the kind of material that could indicate an image deliberately doctored to 'deny' the horrific realities and put out on social media to 'do the rounds.' Without further verification of the image, and given my second paragraph, it isn't 'safe' to draw ANY certain conclusions from it.

Agreed.

And I don’t think it’s even debatable that there is a general state of crisis in Gaza (that photo looks doctored to me).

I would note, however, that I just finished watching a report on BBC news where an embedded "journalist" in Gaza stated that people “can’t afford to BUY food” (the aid being supplied by the new distribution centers). Why do Gazans have to BUY the food??? Who gets the money from the food "sales"???



And that ^ report is from a "Palestinian" aligned "reporter" embedded in Gaza, so I am fairly certain it is accurate.



That ^ said:

How can the general state of crisis be resolved when Hamas is still in control of Gaza (and the West Bank?), and when they are still holding hostages???



Related:

I honestly feel if Hamas survives this “whole thing”, they will become stronger than ever (in Gaza AND the West Bank), thus posing an even greater threat to Israel in the future.

Is that ^ an acceptable outcome / resolution to this “whole thing”???





We. Told. Them. So.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

The New York Times finally says out loud what's been obvious for two years: No, Israel isn't committing genocide in Gaza.

The effect is to license a new wave of Jew hatred, stirring enmity not only for the Israeli government but also for any Jew who supports Israel as a genocide supporter. It’s a tactic Israel haters have pursued for years with inflated or bogus charges of Israeli massacres or war crimes that, on close inspection, weren’t. The genocide charge is more of the same but with deadlier effects.

 

[Setanta84]

The New York Times finally says out loud what's been obvious for two years: No, Israel isn't committing genocide in Gaza.

The NYT is propaganda for the American Empire. Even Israeli papers, notably Haaretz, recognize this as a genocide. Every genocide scholar and lawyer specializing in human rights recognizes it is a genocide. It is clearly a genocide. You don't block food, shoot kids in the head, and blow up children's hospitals in a war. You do these things during a genocide

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

The NYT is propaganda for the American Empire. Even Israeli papers, notably Haaretz, recognize this as a genocide. Every genocide scholar and lawyer specializing in human rights recognizes it is a genocide. It is clearly a genocide. You don't block food, shoot kids in the head, and blow up children's hospitals in a war. You do these things during a genocide

Ha'aretz doesn't recognize the war in Gaza as a genocide.

Israel is not committing genocide in Gaza. The prosecutor in The Hague and all the learned professors, from Omer Bartov on down, who talk about a genocide, are wrong.

 

[Setanta84]

Ha'aretz doesn't recognize the war in Gaza as a genocide.

That's an op-ed, you dumb fuck. The editors of the paper clearly recognize the genocide.

 

[StrentWriter]

That's an op-ed, you dumb fuck. The editors of the paper clearly recognize the genocide.

She is literally a hasbara spewing nutcase. (Notsobrightshinygirl)

 

[ll74]

@moderators - please lock this thread. We have multiple, current threads addressing the topic and don't need so many of the same arguments.

 

[icanhelp1]

She is literally a hasbara spewing nutcase. (Notsobrightshinygirl)

I’ve been following everyone’s postings since the beginning of this thread and have added a few myself. My question to you is…do you support Hamas?

 

[StrentWriter]

I’ve been following everyone’s postings since the beginning of this thread and have added a few myself. My question to you is…do you support Hamas?

oh FUCK OFF with this stupid, insane, disgusting, racist rhetoric

I’m British

I’m humanitarian led

Not wanting Israel to genocide Palestinians in Palestine =/= supporting Hamas.

Fuck off with you.

It wasn’t a reasonable question to ask two years ago - it is insane you’re asking this now.

Fuck right off.

 

[StrentWriter]

@moderators - please lock this thread. We have multiple, current threads addressing the topic and don't need so many of the same arguments.

No we don’t, you just want it locked so the Israel supporters have a safer space to spew their hasbara without challenge. Into the bin you should go and all, enabling it.

You have to challenge genociders and genocide apologists head on. Israel went past the point of proportionality at the end of November 2023 and since then al they have done is escalate across the middle east and literally starve an entire population of people.

If people like yourselves weren’t so fucking cowardly maybe you would be calling out the genociders for what they’re doing and be on the right side of history, which includes protestors, humanitarian groups, the UN, most of Israel’s closest allies now, most if not all Jewish peace groups, Israeli holocaust historians and the press which isn’t being directly controlled by the state of Israel through lobbying.

Sick of this shit, sick of seeing kids starving, mutilated or dead on television feeds and news reports and absolutely sick of people justifying this utterly shit, utterly evil campaign.

Enough is fucking enough.

 

[ll74]

No we don’t, you just want it locked so the Israel supporters have a safer space to spew their hasbara without challenge. Into the bin you should go and all, enabling it.

You have to challenge genociders and genocide apologists head on. Israel went past the point of proportionality at the end of November 2023 and since then al they have done is escalate across the middle east and literally starve an entire population of people.

If people like yourselves weren’t so fucking cowardly maybe you would be calling out the genociders for what they’re doing and be on the right side of history, which includes protestors, humanitarian groups, the UN, most of Israel’s closest allies now, most if not all Jewish peace groups, Israeli holocaust historians and the press which isn’t being directly controlled by the state of Israel through lobbying.

Sick of this shit, sick of seeing kids starving, mutilated or dead on television feeds and news reports and absolutely sick of people justifying this utterly shit, utterly evil campaign.

Enough is fucking enough.

I literally don't care about you diatribe.