Clicking off the safety

[Betticus]

Okay, this one is for both the dominants and submissives. I've kept pretty tight control on my sadistic, controlling urges for quite a long time while I've been learning more about the bdsm lifestyle. Learning about different peoples needs, what is proper and what is just stupid or dangerous.

Now I would like to open some discussion on letting go of the control and unleashing those urges. I'm not worried about not being able to let go, I'm worried that I will go way too far. Too intense. That I will really hurt someone.

What I would like is some feedback from the Dominant crowd on how you handle it, not just safewords and stuff like that. In your own mind, how do you keep from going way over the line?

From you Submissive types, what goes through your mind when you see a Dom losing control? Becoming something like a rabid dog with the sadism and violence.

Also, anything else. Other thoughts on the subject or anything you think may help.

Thanks.

 

[dolf]

In your own mind, how do you keep from going way over the line?

dunno...i crossed the line.

From you Submissive types, what goes through your mind when you see a Dom losing control? Becoming something like a rabid dog with the sadism and violence.

pass.

hmmm...i'm not helping much am i daddy.

 

[LeahLo519]

I'm not in a D/s relationship...but that sounds scary.

 

[Betticus]

dunno...i crossed the line.

pass.

hmmm...i'm not helping much am i daddy.

You might be able to handle me in that situation but you are quite the little masochist sometimes.

I'm thinking of finding some guys that I don't particularly care for and letting it go on them. Drug dealers or rapists, something like that.

I just hope that I don't start with the insane giggling when I do start to let it go. I used to do that in fights, etc.. and it was really creepy afterwards. Even to me. Maybe it's something like Domspace but when that would happen I just felt incredibly alive, powerful and it was as if the entire world belonged to me, for my pleasure.

 

[Betticus]

I'm not in a D/s relationship...but that sounds scary.

Are you just curious about bdsm then?

 

[chris9]

I'm not in a D/s relationship...but that sounds scary.

Yes, it does sound scary. Very scary.
I'm not in a D/s relationship mostly either, but I'm not sure I could feel safe if my PYL didn't know how to control himself.
Safe words are all good and stuff, but when I'm tied up, saying a word isn't going to stop him, he does have to have enough self control to stop himself at that instant. If he can't, why do I need a safe words?

I have no idea how this could feel to you, Betticus, I don't think I have even the smallest sadist in me. I would think though, that you might be able to let out only small amounts of your saved sadism. Like set yourself a time limit, or a hit limit, and then increasing this depending how you and your pyl feel. This way you might be able to not get into a kind of 'fit' of hurting, ending up doing stupid or wrong things, and could slowly work on your self-control.
I don't know if this can work or not, though... Maybe someone else is a bit more knowledgable.

 

[Betticus]

There was an older thread about sadism and if I remember correctly Francisco had some interesting things to say on the subject. Something a bit similar to what I'm worried about.

 

[Masters_aphrodite]

What I would like is some feedback from the Dominant crowd on how you handle it, not just safewords and stuff like that. In your own mind, how do you keep from going way over the line?

From you Submissive types, what goes through your mind when you see a Dom losing control? Becoming something like a rabid dog with the sadism and violence.

Also, anything else. Other thoughts on the subject or anything you think may help.

Thanks.

i cannot answer from the Dominant side. i am not sure how Master maintains control, but i know that at times it would be easy for Him to let go.

i think in a way W/we feed off of one another. Well, at least i know i feed off of Master. What goes through my mind? There are times that i feel myself losing control from His hard use of me and i become like a wild animal (in a way) growling more than anything else. At times i find myself wishing for Master to lose control and this is something W/we have discussed. The deeper W/we go the stronger bond that i feel and the closer i feel to Master.

my answer is probably not the norm. *grin*

 

[Netzach]

I don't think I have any business going there if I can't keep a lid on it.

It doesn't have to be airtight and hermetic, but it does have to be a lid.

 

[Killishandra]

Marquis and I have not had the chance to engage in much S&M yet, but it's something we've both talked about, since I have masochistic tendencies and many S&M fantasies.. I'm not sure how "much" of a masochist I am though, because other than really enjoying spanking and light whipping, I haven't experienced anything else.

However, I am very interested in this thread, because I worry about Him controling his sadism when we start experimenting with this. I like mild levels of pain, and I may increase my liking, though I doubt I'll ever pass the point where I like moderate into liking the heavy stuff. But I fear ending up physically hurt after a scene, because He does have a tendency to lose himself in the moment. I'm sure many Doms do.

Obviously, I can't speak for Him, and we haven't even talked at length about it yet... I would be very interested to see what His response to this thread is. But, He won't be home until tomorrow. *shrug*

Until then, I'll keep reading what everyone else has to say on this topic. Good one to bring up, Betticus! Thank you for bringing it to the table.

 

[Netzach]

Bottom line is that I've always learned and maintained that you don't top unless you are willing and able to own the results of your behavior. That's why I've always looked at it as a privilege and a subject of study and consideration, not something anyone who "feels like it" should be able and entitled to just go ahead and do. However sadistic I might be, however far I might go, I always have a small, controlled part of my brain running ahead to the next step, visualizing the outcome of my next maneuver. That's what keeps things on track in a scene, but it's also part of what's pleasureable, predicting a reaction and predicting correctly.

I think by putting as much time and thought into it, as you have, Betticus, you're already showing that you're less likely to lose control or act irresponsibly. Simply being worried about it, simply having a concern about going too far means you are less likely to do so, instead of an attitude that you can do no wrong.

I don't think I'd be so likely to connect non-consensual bar-room type male brawling with my SM, or revenge fantasies or what have you, though. I tend not to think of the people I'd really like to kill when I'm with someone I really don't want to kill, and I think that helps keep things somewhat unmuddled in my head.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Ka-ching

I don't think I have any business going there if I can't keep a lid on it.

It doesn't have to be airtight and hermetic, but it does have to be a lid.

And the person boiling the pot has to have control.

Think of yourself as a chef instead of a really bad short order cook and it may help B. If you don't pay attention when hard boiling eggs, you get a mess that takes quite a while to clean. Same thing when indulging in sadistic tendencies. Maiming and permanent breakage may appeal (perhaps go part in parcel with) some, but they have established that as acceptable in their relationship.

Whom you referred to as examples (rapists, et al), don't fall into the same category for requiring care. i'm hearing high testosterone blood lust driven by emotion. Might get yourself labelled as a vigilante, might get yourself thrown in jail for assault without provocation, and a bigger dog always haunts the block. If it works and you walk away, more power to you.

 

[rosco rathbone]

You might be able to handle me in that situation but you are quite the little masochist sometimes.

I'm thinking of finding some guys that I don't particularly care for and letting it go on them. Drug dealers or rapists, something like that.

I just hope that I don't start with the insane giggling when I do start to let it go. I used to do that in fights, etc.. and it was really creepy afterwards. Even to me. Maybe it's something like Domspace but when that would happen I just felt incredibly alive, powerful and it was as if the entire world belonged to me, for my pleasure.

Sounds like you need to study the arts, dude. BJJ, boxing. Get all that rage out and get to hurt people without getting thrown in the pokey.

 

[Betticus]

Bottom line is that I've always learned and maintained that you don't top unless you are willing and able to own the results of your behavior. That's why I've always looked at it as a privilege and a subject of study and consideration, not something anyone who "feels like it" should be able and entitled to just go ahead and do. However sadistic I might be, however far I might go, I always have a small, controlled part of my brain running ahead to the next step, visualizing the outcome of my next maneuver. That's what keeps things on track in a scene, but it's also part of what's pleasureable, predicting a reaction and predicting correctly.

I think by putting as much time and thought into it, as you have, Betticus, you're already showing that you're less likely to lose control or act irresponsibly. Simply being worried about it, simply having a concern about going too far means you are less likely to do so, instead of an attitude that you can do no wrong.

I don't think I'd be so likely to connect non-consensual bar-room type male brawling with my SM, or revenge fantasies or what have you, though. I tend not to think of the people I'd really like to kill when I'm with someone I really don't want to kill, and I think that helps keep things somewhat unmuddled in my head.

Barroom stuff was more of a way of describing the feeling. Sexually it is a somewhat similar feeling but not the same. This is pretty difficult to try to translate from instincts and feelings to words that convey the point very well. During sex, the actual act of sex it also changes. It becomes more of a mindset of posession. I'm not just having sex with her, not ever. I'm invading her body with mine. I'm making her feel me and that is just part of the pleasure. I don't want to give her orgasms like a gift, I want to work her body like a machine and make her cum for me. When she cums it is like a complete loss of control of her body and in that moment she is like an extension of myself. I own her. There is an exhilarating rush of power and energy in that moment and I love to fuck her as hard and as fast as I can at that time. I just assume that it's kind of like that for all men.

That moment where she is completely in my control is also the time where I am closest to fully letting go of control of my own demons. That person is always there, just beneath the skin. Being held back. For ease of getting the point across let's pretend that I have multiple personalities for a bit. The Dom side takes control pretty much completely around the moment of ecstacy.

In essence, what I want to start doing is to bring more of that personality over and let it blend comfortably in with my daily persona. To set the control aside bit by bit and then grow with that personality. I just don't want to go too far too fast with it. I've been constrained for too long and it's already happening like it or not but lately what it has meant is that I am having a tendency to crack a little in social situations with things that piss me off. My tolerance level is pretty low right now

I do like what you said Netzach, it makes a lot of sense.

 

[Betticus]

And the person boiling the pot has to have control.

Think of yourself as a chef instead of a really bad short order cook and it may help B. If you don't pay attention when hard boiling eggs, you get a mess that takes quite a while to clean. Same thing when indulging in sadistic tendencies. Maiming and permanent breakage may appeal (perhaps go part in parcel with) some, but they have established that as acceptable in their relationship.

But when you feel that edge, that limit. That breaking point where you can feel that sadistic glee working inside you, do you push those boundaries hard to see what will happen or do you begin to pull it back? Do you ride at a certain level, go back and forth with it or is that where you decide to stop?

 

[Betticus]

Sounds like you need to study the arts, dude. BJJ, boxing. Get all that rage out and get to hurt people without getting thrown in the pokey.

Maybe weightlifting would help.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

But when you feel that edge, that limit. That breaking point where you can feel that sadistic glee working inside you, do you push those boundaries hard to see what will happen or do you begin to pull it back? Do you ride at a certain level, go back and forth with it or is that where you decide to stop?

*Chuckling* You make it sound like a thrill ride at the amusement park. i'll agree in that vein. Half the fun involves finding the limit. You get the rest of the goodies by adjusting said limit to the mutual satisfaction of both of you.

Talk to your partner and push the edge of the least extreme, you or the SO. Once you have a good feel for that boundary, approach the line from multiple angles: physical, mental, and emotional. The more extreme between you will likely get more of a rush from the multi-facet approach to the boundary than by one approach alone.

 

[Kajira Callista]

I dunno...

clicking off the safety sounds way hot to me

 

[LunarKitten]

CP has had way more years of experience than I have in r/t activities. However, when we first started playing together last year he was very reluctant to push very far at first. I think the worry about going too far is a fairly prevailant one for Tops when playing with a new bottom. Until you know where their tolerance limits are, you can't really put on the cruise control.

Needless to say, it was a little bit frustrating at first, but at the same time kinda nice that he worried about my safety so much.

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

And the person boiling the pot has to have control.

Think of yourself as a chef instead of a really bad short order cook

AA, you do come up with some winners. This one is a gem. *grin*

JM never loses control. Ever. His whole "thing" is about control. Control of me, control of his environment, control of himself. It's what works for him.

Interesting that he's also the chef in our home. I'm just the lowly dish washer.

JM's words to live by "The best place for a woman is out of my kitchen."



~Anelize

 

[Betticus]

*Chuckling* You make it sound like a thrill ride at the amusement park. i'll agree in that vein. Half the fun involves finding the limit. You get the rest of the goodies by adjusting said limit to the mutual satisfaction of both of you.

Talk to your partner and push the edge of the least extreme, you or the SO. Once you have a good feel for that boundary, approach the line from multiple angles: physical, mental, and emotional. The more extreme between you will likely get more of a rush from the multi-facet approach to the boundary than by one approach alone.

So back to the fundamentals of communication and safety. But if I'm the more extreme one I can play with the mental aspect of it. Keep her on her cute little toes.

You always have very good insight. I'm almost sorry about that time I tried to auction you off.

 

[Marquis]

I have some really extreme S&M desires, and my thirst for depravity can get much more pronounced than normal depending on my mood. My ideal situation is one in which my partner can handle whatever I feel I need to dish out at the time and take it all in stride.

I do think it's fun to play little role playing games and set up vehicles for some S&M play (instructor/student is a good one), but I prefer to be more spontaneous and I won't do it with someone I care about unless I think they're ready. I don't mind giving aftercare if things get scary, but I'm not going to put myself in a situation where I'm going to be looked at funny for days.

I don't have a lot of experience with the floggers, whips, canes... etc. brand of sadism, but I think it's something I could get into. I have a feeling Killi would be really into that, and it would be something we could do at clubs and whatnot. I'm sure I'll have a fun time pushing those pain limits once they are established, but I don't think it will ever satiate the part of me that wants to rape his girlfriend if traffic sucked.

As for the hot male on male action, I'm surprised to hear you say you just totally let go Bett. I never go looking for a fight, but arguments seem to find me. I haven't been in a fight in forever, but I remember that even in the worst fights there was always an element of control. Particularly depending on your setting, the man you beat up could be vengeful enough to collect some buddies and follow you home (boy, that was a rough night), he could be crazier than you and stab you with a broken bottle or something (crazy beats strong in any street fight), he could be packing a gun or he could be all talk and then you gotta worry about breaking his neck when you just wanted him to get the fuck out of your face.

This makes me think of a barfight I had in college. Some drunk bastard was being a dick on the dance floor and tried to pull the girl I was dancing with away from me. I waited to see her reaction, and when she was clearly not amused, I asked him to move on. There was some shit talking and eventually he grabbed me and I wrestled him down to the ground. He was a big dude but I was a lot more sober, and had self-rightousness and the desire not to get punked in front of a chick on my side.

Adrenaline was pumping and my heart was thumping, but I can remember having him pinned on the ground and wondering if I should punch him in his head or his ribs. I was pissed and wanted to hurt him, and also I wanted to intimidate him into staying down. I knew I didn't want to really hurt this poor drunk fool though, so I punched him in the ribs a few times to knock the wind out of him and got up and tried to walk to the back of the bar. Bouncers grabbed me on each side and start ushering me towards the door. Meanwhile, our intoxicated villain gets right up and starts coming right for me. I struggle with the bouncers but they're holding my arms down and he comes up behind them and clocks me right in the face.

That night I kicked myself for not punching him in the face when I had him in a vulnerable position. But since then I've felt like I did the right thing. Getting hit in the face every once in a while is better than beating the shit out of someone who would've stayed down.

 

[landcruisergal]

I was really concerned about the amount of damage I could potentially do to my sub, due to the fact that he has a high threshold for pain, and a hero attitude.
I don't get a power rush from sadistic play, until he's making a noise or reacting in someway.
I find it disconcerting that he admits he will probably never safeword from pain, so the responsibilty is all mine; to continuously check in and watch him.But I come to this as a sub, a masochist myself and a nurse.
My sense of responsibility is my safety brake.
I now, sometimes resent that I cant trust him to stop me when I am getting into hurting him, but as I "learn him" its getting easier.
The joy I get from sadistic play was a surprise. Slow start has become a habit.
I prolong my pleasure so I can savour each and every whimper, every tear that rolls down his cheek, every gasp of surprise and pain.Every wriggle and twitch.
That's what gets me aroused.
I chose and place every stroke, clamp or needle so it pleases me visually.
I pace myself carefully, so my touch is not always as he expects.
I guess I work as a technician, to some extent.
Like tuning an instrument so I am getting the best reception and picture.
He has a safe word and if he is gagged, he has something to hold, and drop if he can't endure anymore...

 

[AngelicAssassin]

So back to the fundamentals of communication and safety. But if I'm the more extreme one I can play with the mental aspect of it. Keep her on her cute little toes.

Exactly, and i guarantee a sophisticated mindfuck will leave your masochistic partner in a bigger puddle of goo than any bleeding edge (pun intended) physical act you can dream up B.

You always have very good insight. I'm almost sorry about that time I tried to auction you off.

Thank you. No problem. Your buyer would have come looking for you, not me, when i didn't show ... http://aaotracker.4players.de/Images/smilies/shock.gif

Adrenaline was pumping and my heart was thumping,

That's the blood lust i referred to earlier.

but I can remember having him pinned on the ground and wondering if I should punch him in his head or his ribs. I was pissed and wanted to hurt him ...

Your choices left the building with Elvis the moment you engaged. You had two choices prior to the wrestling match:

• Walk away with the lady in hand. Allow idiot to make the first move. If he does, put him down hard, or let the bouncers intervene.
• Get to point you described. Smack his nose one time to start the tear works and blood river. Get up and walk immediately to the exit with lady in hand. He won't follow because he can't see. If the lady doesn't become outraged at your Cro-Magnon behavior, you're on your way to a private location for fun and games of your choosing.

i prefer the former. i want asshole ejected, not me, especially if i paid to attend. i control the situation, not the boor, and that in itself puts the cherry on top of my sundae. Add a well timed phone call to campus security (or the police) prior to your exit from said event. Mr. Boor, if he's stupid enough to accost you on exit, spends the night in a drunk tank and/or cash he can't afford to get out of jail. Would anyone else care for caramel on their sundae?

 

[graceanne]

I have some really extreme S&M desires, and my thirst for depravity can get much more pronounced than normal depending on my mood. My ideal situation is one in which my partner can handle whatever I feel I need to dish out at the time and take it all in stride.

I do think it's fun to play little role playing games and set up vehicles for some S&M play (instructor/student is a good one), but I prefer to be more spontaneous and I won't do it with someone I care about unless I think they're ready. I don't mind giving aftercare if things get scary, but I'm not going to put myself in a situation where I'm going to be looked at funny for days.

I don't have a lot of experience with the floggers, whips, canes... etc. brand of sadism, but I think it's something I could get into. I have a feeling Killi would be really into that, and it would be something we could do at clubs and whatnot. I'm sure I'll have a fun time pushing those pain limits once they are established, but I don't think it will ever satiate the part of me that wants to rape his girlfriend if traffic sucked.

As for the hot male on male action, I'm surprised to hear you say you just totally let go Bett. I never go looking for a fight, but arguments seem to find me. I haven't been in a fight in forever, but I remember that even in the worst fights there was always an element of control. Particularly depending on your setting, the man you beat up could be vengeful enough to collect some buddies and follow you home (boy, that was a rough night), he could be crazier than you and stab you with a broken bottle or something (crazy beats strong in any street fight), he could be packing a gun or he could be all talk and then you gotta worry about breaking his neck when you just wanted him to get the fuck out of your face.

This makes me think of a barfight I had in college. Some drunk bastard was being a dick on the dance floor and tried to pull the girl I was dancing with away from me. I waited to see her reaction, and when she was clearly not amused, I asked him to move on. There was some shit talking and eventually he grabbed me and I wrestled him down to the ground. He was a big dude but I was a lot more sober, and had self-rightousness and the desire not to get punked in front of a chick on my side.

Adrenaline was pumping and my heart was thumping, but I can remember having him pinned on the ground and wondering if I should punch him in his head or his ribs. I was pissed and wanted to hurt him, and also I wanted to intimidate him into staying down. I knew I didn't want to really hurt this poor drunk fool though, so I punched him in the ribs a few times to knock the wind out of him and got up and tried to walk to the back of the bar. Bouncers grabbed me on each side and start ushering me towards the door. Meanwhile, our intoxicated villain gets right up and starts coming right for me. I struggle with the bouncers but they're holding my arms down and he comes up behind them and clocks me right in the face.

That night I kicked myself for not punching him in the face when I had him in a vulnerable position. But since then I've felt like I did the right thing. Getting hit in the face every once in a while is better than beating the shit out of someone who would've stayed down.

Let me get this straight? The bouncers didn't intervene until after you'd already wrestled this jerk to the ground, and got in a few punches? Then they waited till you got off said asshole, and held you pinned so he could sucker punch you? And were these loosers buddy's with the drunk? Cause if I'd been in your shoes I'd have raised holy living hell with the management.