circumcision

[butters]

Let's be practical for a minute.

For those of us who had it done as babies, we don't know any different.

Further, going on about how your parents made this decision for you and how you are somehow missing out on something is pointless. Mine has served me well for 45 odd years and if there is something i'm missing out on, so be it. I'm not going to lament over something that I never knew I had, nor am I going to blame my parents for their decision. Whether it was religious, conformity or whatever, it is what it is.

For those of you who were left intact, more power to you.

You get to experience life with this equipment from a different perspective. At the same time you'll never know anything different from your current state unless you choose to and I can't imagine why, other than a medical or physical issue, you would even consider that choice.

For those who did make that choice, depending on the issue, you might know the actual difference.

However, the question is a little different. Was the reason you had this procedure a choice between a continued issue, or a return to a relatively normal state of function. If so, I would imagine it would be worth it. If not, I hope you can live and be well., but I will never know your perspective either.

As far as anything else. the argument is rather pointless. If you don't believe it is necessary, then don't do it to your sons. It's that damn simple. I never had to make that choice since I never had a son.

For those that do make that decision one way or the other, how dare you sit in judgement of someone whose choice was different for their sons? Agree or disagree on the merit of the procedure if you like.

Otherwise, it's none of your damn business.

i agree with most of what you say, right up to the last paragraph and ultimate sentence:

i am not, personally, 'sitting in judgement'... i know what my choices were (and would be) but was attempting to understand the real reasons people still have this done to babies when it's not a medical intervention. To try and dig deeper into how much religion is behind it, or if cultural norms are more the driving cause. It was a discussion about society and social responsibility. From the answers here, most seem to be discussing the procedure rather than 'sitting in judgement', but since it's considered a free world people are allowed to voice an opinion so long as that isn't inflammatory to the point of causing danger to a person or civil litigation re libel.

when enough people in the medical world give valid testimony as to the pain and trauma this procedure can cause infant boys, is it ok to ignore this?

 

[savmitch1038]

american studies, or those around the world?

there is NO reason a guy should be dirty being uncut, just as a woman should have no issues with vaginal hygiene who have 'normal' labia without labiaplasty

my experience with men?
hygiene... no issues
appearance...no issues
infections...nope
and all the other points you make...no difference

Thank you, knowing what I know now, I would never vote for circumcision! It is cruel, unnatural, and harmful.

 

[RandyRebecca]

why, in modern-day america, is it still considered the norm to disfigure male genitalia by circumcision?

penises come with a foreskin to protect the glans, so why go chopping it off your babies?

I'd never have my son circumcised unless it was a medical necessity to do so, which is very unlikely to ever be the case. I feel very strongly about that.

I certainly prefer the look of a circumcised one, for what that’s worth.

Just pull down the foreskin and it looks like a circumcised dick. Chopping off the skin is like chopping off the clitoral hood. Circumcision without the person's consent and without a medical reason is a violation. I'm sure most people prefer the look of an exposed clitoral glans to a clitoris under its hood, so should we chop off the clitoral hood?

I've never been with a guy who wasn't circumcised.

I'd say 20-30% of the men I've been with were uncut. If I lived in Britain, or Europe, or Latin America, or Japan, it would probably be above 90%. Even in Canada, it would probably be 60-70%.

Apparently 70 to 80% of males are circumcised, so it's not religious.

It depends on the state. West Virginia has the highest rate at 87% and rates tend to be over 72% across nearly all the midwest and upper south, apart from Illinois and Minnesota both being down at 63%. Georgia, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire and Connecticut are also over 70%, with Pennsylvania at 79%. The lowest rates are out west, only 15% in Washington State, 24% in Oregon, 22% in California and as low as 12% in Nevada. In New York State, it's 59% apparently, which is the lowest rate of all the northeastern states, and 9% of New York State's population are either Jewish or Muslim, and they nearly all do it for religious reasons.

 

[Switchfeminineman]

I remember feeling embarrassed when I learned I wasn’t circumcised and almost everyone else was. I also remember being teased for it..

But of course we all grow up and I would never subject my son to the treatment.

 

[hanban24]

I'd never have my son circumcised unless it was a medical necessity to do so, which is very unlikely to ever be the case. I feel very strongly about that.


Just pull down the foreskin and it looks like a circumcised dick. Chopping off the skin is like chopping off the clitoral hood. Circumcision without the person's consent and without a medical reason is a violation. I'm sure most people prefer the look of an exposed clitoral glans to a clitoris under its hood, so should we chop off the clitoral hood?


I'd say 20-30% of the men I've been with were uncut. If I lived in Britain, or Europe, or Latin America, or Japan, it would probably be above 90%. Even in Canada, it would probably be 60-70%.


It depends on the state. West Virginia has the highest rate at 87% and rates tend to be over 72% across nearly all the midwest and upper south, apart from Illinois and Minnesota both being down at 63%. Georgia, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire and Connecticut are also over 70%, with Pennsylvania at 79%. The lowest rates are out west, only 15% in Washington State, 24% in Oregon, 22% in California and as low as 12% in Nevada. In New York State, it's 59% apparently, which is the lowest rate of all the northeastern states, and 9% of New York State's population are either Jewish or Muslim, and they nearly all do it for religious reasons.

I’ve had this debate/discussion multiple times on this board and others and it seems like every time it is with another woman. I don’t think I’ve ever met a guy who feels like it is an issue (although I’m sure some exist).

I don’t have the parts myself, so I don’t care. As for my preference, I prefer circumcised. That’s just me.

 

[RandyRebecca]

I’ve had this debate/discussion multiple times on this board and others and it seems like every time it is with another woman. I don’t think I’ve ever met a guy who feels like it is an issue (although I’m sure some exist).

I don’t have the parts myself, so I don’t care. As for my preference, I prefer circumcised. That’s just me.

I'm sure uncut guys would feel it's an issue. The vast majority of cut guys in the US would first have to acknowledge that something like that was done to them without them having any say in the matter, and for many they'd rather not think about it as they don't want to be a victim. Men are far more reluctant to show weakness and vulnerability than women.

 

[techiedude71]

I also have no issue with what my parents decided in 1971. I know no different and have never had complaints or otherwise. It's always felt amazing and if I am missing something, I will never know.

We went with our doctor's advice on our son also. There was never any question really. We discussed at length. I was told earlier in this thread that doctors recommend it because parents can't be trusted to keep it clean which makes sense I guess.

I dig the crusade to save the foreskin but I am glad I listened to my pediatrician too. Internet is awesome.

 

[RandyRebecca]

We went with our doctor's advice on our son also. There was never any question really. We discussed at length. I was told earlier in this thread that doctors recommend it because parents can't be trusted to keep it clean which makes sense I guess.

So why do doctors almost everywhere else outside our country say otherwise? It's much lower in Canada, and far lower in Latin America, Britain, Europe, and the Far East except for South Korea and the Philippines, the latter two having had US cultural influence. You keep yourself clean by washing.

 

[hanban24]

I'm sure uncut guys would feel it's an issue. The vast majority of cut guys in the US would first have to acknowledge that something like that was done to them without them having any say in the matter, and for many they'd rather not think about it as they don't want to be a victim. Men are far more reluctant to show weakness and vulnerability than women.

or maybe they just don’t feel victimized by it. You could make the same case about vaccination or any other medical decision parents make for their children. At the end of the day, parents make important decisions for their children that shape their lives. Of all the things they opt to do or not do, circumcision is pretty low on the list of importance.

 

[techiedude71]

So why do doctors almost everywhere else outside our country say otherwise? It's much lower in Canada, and far lower in Latin America, Britain, Europe, and the Far East except for South Korea and the Philippines, the latter two having had US cultural influence. You keep yourself clean by washing.

I didn't think to do a worldwide search of this information when my wife and I (and our care team) decided my son's foreskins fate. We had an existing care team as we had a girl first. My kids are happy and healthy.

Also I should mention I do not rely on the internet for factual information. Quite the contrary.

When medical advice is needed, I go to my team of medical professionals. Not to the internet. We have medical folks in the family too but who cares about that.. If my son ever decides to bring my wife and I up on charges for maiming his infant penis I suppose that court case will set some kind of precedent. Otherwise, consider how you would handle your kids, and mind your business on all the rest.

 

[RandyRebecca]

At the end of the day, parents make important decisions for their children that shape their lives. Of all the things they opt to do or not do, circumcision is pretty low on the list of importance.

Then why bother with it? There is no good reason to continue it on into the future. None.

 

[Britva415]

Then don’t do it, if you don’t want it done. People have given a number of explanations as to why it is done. In the end it is a preference thing.

What about when it's some doctor's preference and nobody asks the family?

 

[RandyRebecca]

What about when it's some doctor's preference and nobody asks the family?

Is that even legal? There has to be parental consent, surely? I made it clear with my son that I didn't want him circumcised.

 

[Britva415]

my point is why would they make those choices in america 2021 and i guess it's mostly down to aesthetics, cultivated by cultural 'norms'

I don't have a reference for statistics to back this up, but my impression is that the people making the choices are doctors more often than parents.

Not counting those circumcisions done for religious purposes.

Doctors are slow to change, and still believe the "hygiene and infections" myth.

Yes, myth. This is not sub saharan Africa we're talking about, which is a place where circumcision is somewhat defensive against HIV transmission, but in the USA this isn't true and there is no other infection which circumcision defends against either.

Hygiene wise, just teach the little bastard to wash it when he's old enough to understand.

Come to think of it, maybe this is why American parents are so easily duped into rubberstamping the circumcision protocol. They'd rather to anything at all than talk to their kids about their naughty bits.

 

[Britva415]

Is that even legal? There has to be parental consent, surely? I made it clear with my son that I didn't want him circumcised.

You might be right that it isn't supposed to be performed without asking, but "asking" may consist of burying the parents in a blizzard of fine-printed paperwork to sign in 200 places.

With absolutely no counseling on which of those 200 places are optional.

 

[Britva415]

You might be right that it isn't supposed to be performed without asking, but "asking" may consist of burying the parents in a blizzard of fine-printed paperwork to sign in 200 places.

With absolutely no counseling on which of those 200 places are optional.

Or just bad counseling.

If a doctor says "we recommend this" or " we usually do this unless your religious person is going to do it," most parents won't challenge it unless they have other information already. The obstetrician isn't going to give alternatives most of the time.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Or just bad counseling.

If a doctor says "we recommend this" or " we usually do this unless your religious person is going to do it," most parents won't challenge it unless they have other information already. The obstetrician isn't going to give alternatives most of the time.

Isn't the circumcision rate in your state of California down at 22% now? It's still 59% in my state of New York (which is the lowest in the northeast), although 9% of the population in this state are either Jewish or Muslim and they nearly all do circumcisions for religious reasons.

 

[crashD]

i'd love to be uncut for about a week, just to see how it feels..

 

[gregor2001us]

Or just bad counseling.

If a doctor says "we recommend this" or " we usually do this unless your religious person is going to do it," most parents won't challenge it unless they have other information already. The obstetrician isn't going to give alternatives most of the time.

Some doctors are not just less than comprehensive in their advice, some are quite biased and unprofessional. When we had our first child, my wife's OBGYN asked us what we wanted to do. I at the time, did not know as much about foreskins as I do now, yet something in me wanted to leave him intact unless there was some really good reason to amputate his foreskin. The doctor seemed to accept that, so there was no plan to circumcise our son....or so I thought.

Immediately after our son's birth, while my wife was out of it due to medication, and I was exhausted, the doctor brought it up again, out of the blue. Totally unexpected. But this time, he was pacing back and forth, pressuring me to do this and fearmongering about how my son would be psychologically traumatized by other boys in locker rooms, and by seeing that he was different than me.

Fortunately, even in my less than fully prepared state, I could easily dismiss the ridiculous arguments he was making. I mean really? I am six foot, where glasses, have pubic hair, where glasses, and the only thing about me that will cause this harm to me sons is my not having a foreskin? What is I had lost an arm or leg in the war? would the doctor be pressuring me to amputate my new born son's arm or leg to avoid the psychological trauma? A pathetic attempt to change my mind, but even so, it was not easy to resist a doctor, supposedly trying to advise in the best interest of my son.

There is a lot of fearmongering and bad advice out there, unfortunately a lot of it coming from the medical community. Be informed and be your own (and your son's) advocate.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Some doctors are not just less than comprehensive in their advice, some are quite biased and unprofessional. When we had our first child, my wife's OBGYN asked us what we wanted to do. I at the time, did not know as much about foreskins as I do now, yet something in me wanted to leave him intact unless there was some really good reason to amputate his foreskin. The doctor seemed to accept that, so there was no plan to circumcise our son....or so I thought.

Immediately after our son's birth, while my wife was out of it due to medication, and I was exhausted, the doctor brought it up again, out of the blue. Totally unexpected. But this time, he was pacing back and forth, pressuring me to do this and fearmongering about how my son would be psychologically traumatized by other boys in locker rooms, and by seeing that he was different than me.

Fortunately, even in my less than fully prepared state, I could easily dismiss the ridiculous arguments he was making. I mean really? I am six foot, where glasses, have pubic hair, where glasses, and the only thing about me that will cause this harm to me sons is my not having a foreskin? What is I had lost an arm or leg in the war? would the doctor be pressuring me to amputate my new born son's arm or leg to avoid the psychological trauma? A pathetic attempt to change my mind, but even so, it was not easy to resist a doctor, supposedly trying to advise in the best interest of my son.

There is a lot of fearmongering and bad advice out there, unfortunately a lot of it coming from the medical community. Be informed and be your own (and your son's) advocate.

That doctor is really shocking. Those tactics are like boxing promoters who try force new contracts on boxers right after a tough fight when they are drained of energy.

 

[PastMaster]

Women have spoken:

In the overwhelming majority of studies, women expressed a preference for the circumcised penis. The main reasons given for this preference were better appearance, better hygiene, reduced risk of infection, and enhanced sexual activity, including vaginal intercourse, manual stimulation, and fellatio.

Can you imagine the outcry that would follow if this were the other way around. If men said that they preferred a woman's genitalia to be mutilated because it looks better? Genital mutilation is just that and should be outlawed excepting where there is a medical reason for it.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Seems to be a lot of Womensplaining going on here! Women don't have a penis so they don't get an opinion.

 

[techiedude71]

Everyone gets an opinion. Old saying about that.. Women will eventually end up with the penis inside one of the many orifices so maybe their opinions should be respected. I don't think it has anything to do with that though.

I would ask why this matters so much but it's just another can of worms I don't give a shit about.

 

[Uncut1969]

I remember feeling embarrassed when I learned I wasn’t circumcised and almost everyone else was. I also remember being teased for it..

But of course we all grow up and I would never subject my son to the treatment.

I was self conscious also because I wasnt
Like everyone else! Diddnt want to be made fun of or girls laughing at one point wanted to get circumcised but diddnt now I enjoy being different and love my uncut cock

 

[Gator50]

I’ve heard there are quite a few books out there on male (and female) circumcision. It seems that for some it’s a matter of the parents religion. I think nowadays the parents are asked what they want to do. I’m cut but I’d say no to any of my boy children. It seems that the USA is one of the few countries that still recommends it for all boys.