circumcision...ugh

[EarnestImp]

Thirdly, I never really completely disagreed with your stance. I can absolutely see why people on the outside looking might regard this custom as somewhat barbaric. However, I am disappointed that you have now been reduced to just insulting everyone that disagrees with you. I wish to hear no more of how "well-spoken" and "articulate" and "logical" you are if all you can do is belittle someone who dares to disagree with a friggin' know-it-all.

Your comments on baldness and heart disease really miss the point, you must realize. I was being ironical. Sorry I have to spell it out.

Look, I can't argue with someone who says that male circ is justified because women have periods. This is not rational argumentation. It is Dadaism. It is changing the subject. Any rational response on my part would go over her head, or would be met with more Dada. I can't debate with fools, and her argument reveals her to be a fool. One can debate only with people who are susceptible to logic. She isn't.

Insults are all that is left, really. She is comical in her stupidity.

 

[hislove66]

For every link against circumcision (god I hate typing that word), there's a link for it. The risks of not having seem slightly higher than the risks of having it, but in the end it boils down to personal choice. And as the baby obviously can't make that choice, it's up to the parents to do so for him.

I find foreskins repulsive, and so to me, that and all the data supporting the procedure would make me choose to have my son done if I was to have one. People that have no issues with foreskins will take a different view on things.

You're not going to change anybody's mind on it - instead all you boys, shouting over the fact that your parents made a decision about your Mr. Happy without consulting you first, sound like a bunch of hysterical women. Get over it - or grow it back if you need it that bad.

I have to disagree with that. I live in Europe, and you don't risk your baby dieing, or being brain-damaged, or ending up with a severly mutilated, scarred cock, or even just being in PAIN by NOT having him circumsized...

Boys don't die because they weren't circumsized.

Why are the men supposed to "get over it"?? It was done without their consent. Are women supposed to "get over" stuff like that too?

TumbledLove posted few links to pictures of "nice" looking, circumsized cocks...I've hardly ever been so sick in my life.

 

[Freya]

... ... ...I don't think anyone anti-circumcision here has had the chop, mostly because we know what we'd be losing out on... so you're telling people that aren't here to get over it.



No-one has been providing links, and if you google you'd be hard pressed to find them. The risks of not having seem alot less to me than having it.

This is an honest question ladies, would you be okay with the amount of sexual pleasure you can possibly receive to be two thirds less than it is now? And also for it to get number over time.

We can call circumcision something else if you like, I don't know, does Will or Willy sound good to you?

Links, and people, in the other hundred never ending threads on this topic. I haven't read this one, but I imagine it's exactly the same as the rest.

I don't mind what it's called - I just hate typing it. I always want to put an s where the c goes.



Brain damaged or dying from circumcision? It's a wonder there are any mentally able Jews left alive in the world.

Sometimes it's a real struggle to not do a rolly eyes emoticon.

 

[breakwall]

I love backpedalling.
Gman states that circumcision is child abuse.
I remark that in that case, the Jewish faith is guilty of child abuse.
Gman responds to a question concerning Jewish faith that circumcision is on par with other rites practiced by "bizarre cults" such as David Koresh's pedophilia.

I clarify the connection that he is placing circumcision on the same level as pedophilia.

And then everybody started making fun of my man boobs.

 

[LOST&FOUND]

I love backpedalling.
Gman states that circumcision is child abuse.
I remark that in that case, the Jewish faith is guilty of child abuse.
Gman responds to a question concerning Jewish faith that circumcision is on par with other rites practiced by "bizarre cults" such as David Koresh's pedophilia.

I clarify the connection that he is placing circumcision on the same level as pedophilia.

And then everybody started making fun of my man boobs.

Just a normal day here on the GB.

 

[breakwall]

Just a normal day here on the GB.

well, except for everything before the man boobs part.

 

[cookiejar]

well, except for everything before the man boobs part.

I thought I was being nice...

 

[LOST&FOUND]

I thought I was being nice...

*snicker*

 

[breakwall]

I thought I was being nice...

you were brilliant.
In fact, it was my favourite post in the entire thread.

 

[cookiejar]

you were brilliant.
In fact, it was my favourite post in the entire thread.

I'm always brilliant or I like to think so. No more snickering Lost.

 

[gman23]

There are many different kinds and levels of child abuse. In China it has been the custom in the past to kill the first born if the child was female. In India they sometimes have been known to throw Child bride widows onto funeral pyres. In this country we circumcise newborns without their consent and medicate any child who doesn't fit in with the accepted educational paradigm. Are they all the same? Of course not. Are they all forms of child abuse? Why yes they are.

 

[breakwall]

There are many different kinds and levels of child abuse. In China it has been the custom in the past to kill the first born if the child was female. In India they sometimes have been known to throw Child bride widows onto funeral pyres. In this country we circumcise newborns without their consent and medicate any child who doesn't fit in with the accepted educational paradigm. Are they all the same? Of course not. Are they all forms of child abuse? Why yes they are.

I think you're taking one eighth of an inch of generally nerveless skin and turning it into a crime against humanity.

And I also think that people who are actual victims of child abuse would find offense with their physical and emotional anguish being equated on any level with twenty seconds of forgotten discomfort for a newborn.

 

[EarnestImp]

I love backpedalling.
Gman states that circumcision is child abuse.
I remark that in that case, the Jewish faith is guilty of child abuse.
Gman responds to a question concerning Jewish faith that circumcision is on par with other rites practiced by "bizarre cults" such as David Koresh's pedophilia.
I clarify the connection that he is placing circumcision on the same level as pedophilia.
And then everybody started making fun of my man boobs.

No. Boldface indicates your creative interpretation. He said that religions/cults have bizarre atavistic rituals, giving Koresh as example. He did not say 'on par' - he said that religions can have practices that are out of place in the modern world, giving Koresh as extreme example, apparently of a situation in which religious freedom is sacrificed in favor of secular ethical standards. 'On par' is your words, not his. And your 'clarification' is really a straw man, putting words into his mouth, words he never wrote. Learn to read. Learn to think.

Not man boobs either.

 

[breakwall]

No. Boldface indicates your creative interpretation. He said that religions/cults have bizarre atavistic rituals, giving Koresh as example. He did not say 'on par' - he said that religions can have practices that are out of place in the modern world, giving Koresh as extreme example, apparently of a situation in which religious freedom is sacrificed in favor of secular ethical standards. 'On par' is your words, not his. And your 'clarification' is really a straw man, putting words into his mouth, words he never wrote. Learn to read. Learn to think.

Not man boobs either.

I admit, I made the thoughtful leap from concept to connection.

Now, by all means, I'd hate to interrupt you with your terribly thoughtful repetitive rhetoric, please continue.

 

[EarnestImp]

I think you're taking one eighth of an inch of generally nerveless skin and turning it into a crime against humanity.

And I also think that people who are actual victims of child abuse would find offense with their physical and emotional anguish being equated on any level with twenty seconds of forgotten discomfort for a newborn.

If it is nerveless, why are adults anesthetised when they are circed?

If it is 1/8 of an inch, why do they even bother with circ? It is nearly half of the skin area of the penis. Seriously.

If it is 20 seconds of 'discomfort' why is the infant screaming his head off for the entire 5 or 10 minute duration of the circ (see movies posted above).

If the pain is forgotten, why does circ produce a significant change in pain response 6 months later? (Taddio et al studies published in Lancet).

None of the facts you posted are correct. You are entitled to whatever opinions you want, but could you at least get the facts straight? Is that too much to ask?

 

[breakwall]

If it is nerveless, why are adults anesthetised when they are circed?

If it is 1/8 of an inch, why do they even bother with circ? It is nearly half of the skin area of the penis. Seriously.

It isn't "half the skin". Seriously. I attended a Bris. If anything I was being generous. No. Seriously.

If it is 20 seconds of 'discomfort' why is the infant screaming his head off for the entire 5 or 10 minute duration of the circ (see movies posted above).

My nephew screams like that when he doesn't get a bottle. If you only think infants scream because they are in pain than you either don't have a child or you need to sit down and have a long talk with your wife. I think it probably is painful and for the entire procedure it is most likely the most painful thing happening to them. And ten minutes later, it's over.

If the pain is forgotten, why does circ produce a significant change in pain response 6 months later? (Taddio et al studies published in Lancet).

I have to admit, I've never sat down and had an in-depth discussion about pain response with a six month old. But I'm sure it would be a fascinating conversation.

None of the facts you posted are correct. You are entitled to whatever opinions you want, but could you at least get the facts straight? Is that too much to ask?

I think you're just about done here, don't you?

 

[gman23]

I think you're taking one eighth of an inch of generally nerveless skin and turning it into a crime against humanity.

And I also think that people who are actual victims of child abuse would find offense with their physical and emotional anguish being equated on any level with twenty seconds of forgotten discomfort for a newborn.

The discomfort lasts a bit longer than 20 seconds. So you are saying that if a person doesn't remember a violation, it is as if it didn't happen? A lot of abused people dont remember what was done to them, does that make it any less wrong?

 

[JammieDodger]

I think you're taking one eighth of an inch of generally nerveless skin and turning it into a crime against humanity.

And I also think that people who are actual victims of child abuse would find offense with their physical and emotional anguish being equated on any level with twenty seconds of forgotten discomfort for a newborn.

I'm sorry but you are absolutely wrong with the nerveless thing. I have foreskin, it is the most sensitive part of my penis. Where on earth have you gotten the idea it was nerveless with the most credible and in depth study into it stating it has the same sensitivity as the rest of the penis as a whole. I've already posted the quote, go read it, it isn't simply skin, its a complex part of the body made up of various different specialised parts.

 

[smy3th]

*Yawn* Can we go back to talking about breast feeding now? That was a LOT more fun.

 

[EarnestImp]

It isn't "half the skin". Seriously. I attended a Bris. If anything I was being generous. No. Seriously.

Oh, hell. OK, here are the dimensions of the prepuce and penis:
http://www.cirp.org/pages/anat/
Keep in mind that the double fold covering the glans is removed. Because of folding, you need to double its length to estimate the amount of skin removed.

Here are pictures of a circ:
http://www.cirp.org/library/procedure/plastibell/
Look at the amount being cut with the scissors (below blue photo, towards bottom). Much more than 1/8 inch.
photo is here: http://www.cirp.org/library/procedure/plastibell/08clamping.jpg

Here is the Taddio article that measured pain response 6 months after circ, and
found that circed infants exhibited much stronger pain response to shots using a blind pain ranking system: http://www.cirp.org/library/pain/taddio2/
Read the abstract if you are too lazy to read the whole thing.

Look, if you don't give a damn about the evidence, there is nothing I can do. But at least don't go around making up your own facts.

 

[smy3th]

i really kind of hope my man isn't interested in breast milk

Why? It's fun. Any man should interested in the actual function of those breasts he loves so much. It's what breasts are built for. I am fascinated by anything to do with them.

if he's curious and wants to try it once, that's one thing....but i'm not breast feeding my man, lol

Well, I didn't make breast milk a part of my diet or anything. It just adds a little flavor to an already fun suck - like the Vermouth in a dry Martini (bad analogy, but the best I can do at the moment).

I think she enjoyed the feeling as well. Actually, I could get a little of the residual fluid, not really milk, but related, for years afterwards. Just a smidgeon.

 

[smy3th]

That's right. We don't give a damn

Look, if you don't give a damn about the evidence, there is nothing I can do.

We don't actually give a damn about the whole damn subject, dammit. I know men are way too absorbed in thinking about their dicks, but still, nobody cares about this subject.

 

[EarnestImp]

We don't actually give a damn about the whole damn subject, dammit. I know men are way too absorbed in thinking about their dicks, but still, nobody cares about this subject.

well, if you aren't interested in the subject, perhaps you should stop reading and posting in a thread called circumcision...ugh.

It ain't rocket science. For most people, at any rate.

 

[JammieDodger]

We don't actually give a damn about the whole damn subject, dammit. I know men are way too absorbed in thinking about their dicks, but still, nobody cares about this subject.

Get the stereotype right, its thinking WITH our dicks... ... ...now where is that orange I had around here?

 

[breakwall]

Look, if you don't give a damn about the evidence, there is nothing I can do. But at least don't go around making up your own facts.

i gotta admit here guys, I'm getting a bit weirded out talking about baby penises. Earnest, apparently you're only purpose on this board is to talk about circumcision and hey...that's um...

...well, you just keep being you...

But here are the facts.

Fact: Circumcision isn't child abuse.

and it isn't. There isn't a law on the books that constitutes that it is.

Fact: Circumcision isn't inhumane.

of questionable value, yes, I will go that far. I admit that I'm glad I'm circumcised for the aesthetics of it. And doctor's do tend to argue that the procedure may or may not have any medical benefits. But hospitals still perform them, so they are still a medically sound procedure.

Fact: Circumcision isn't dangerous

the AMA released a report that stated Circumcision is generally a safe procedure, research suggests. Complications occur in 1 in 200 to 1 in 500 circumcised newborn males and are most often minor. The two most common are mild bleeding and local infection.

Fact: the only REAL argument against circumcision is personal preference.

And Ernie, you did that in Post 1. The rest is, as I have previously stated, repetitive rhetoric.

I've made my points. I'm happy with my penis. I'm pretty much done talking about circumcision.