circumcision...ugh

[EarnestImp]

People who say male circumcision is like female "circumcision" (which is misnomer anyway), basically blow all credibility. If they are just going to make up wild and crazy arguments like that, they'll say almost anything.

This is true, if you mean clitoridectomy or infibulation. A reasonable analogy might be trimming the labia. Remember, an adult male loses about an index card's worth of skin when circumcised, so a reasonable female analogue would have to involve a lot of cutting too.

But even a symbolic cut of a female will get you five years in jail. Why not allow both, then (but not clitoridectomy, of course) if it such a little deal? If it is so reasonable, why not let girls get sliced too, in some reasonably comparable manner (but also involve the loss of a fairly large amount of flesh)? Why the double standard? Lots of mean find floppy labia ugly... so slice 'em off in infancy and stop being such squeamish pussies [sic] about it.

 

[EarnestImp]

If that's him in his av and I think it is...he's hot as hell. Try another insult.

Yes, but nothing a couple of years with a Nuss bar couldn't improve. I meant to write excavatum btw.

 

[dolf]

This is true, if you mean clitoridectomy or infibulation. A reasonable analogy might be trimming the labia. Remember, and adult male loses about an index card's worth of skin when circumcised, so a reasonable female analogue would have to involve a lot of cutting too.

But even a symbolic cut of a female will get you five years in jail. Why not allow both, then (but not clitoridectomy, of course) if it such a little deal? If it is so reasonable, why not let girls get sliced too, in some reasonably comparable manner (but also involve the loss of a fairly large amount of flesh)? Why the double standard? Lots of mean find floppy labia ugly... so slice 'em off in infancy and stop being such squeamish pussies [sic] about it.

because floppy labia don't get big until puberty

 

[EarnestImp]

because floppy labia don't get big until puberty

So slice 'em off preemptively, when the girl doesn't remember it. BTW, female genitalia tend to be engorged at birth from the mother's hormones. But that's good. Makes cutting easier. Don't have to be as precise as in a male circ. Much safer. I'm sure that with a bit of effort we cold make it a social custom, and people would defend it just as furiously as they defend male circ.

Besides, no man would go down on a woman with unclipped labia.

 

[Freya]

My question is not why you're getting the circumcision done, but why on earth would you start yet another thread in which self righteous preachers can blather on endlessly about how traumatic a snip of skin has been to them?




Male circumcision is done for health reasons, female circumcision is done so that women cannot enjoy sex and thus will not want to have any until such time as their husband chooses to force an unwanted and excruciatingly painful experience onto them. Slight diff there.

 

[gman23]

Well if you don't believe in Gods word then thats up to you. Just because some do doesn't mean they are wrong and you are right.

Do you believe in any god or gods?

Yeah, but she is not into genital mutilation.

 

[onebadkitty]

So slice 'em off preemptively, when the girl doesn't remember it. BTW, female genitalia tend to be engorged at birth from the mother's hormones. But that's good. Makes cutting easier. Don't have to be as precise as in a male circ. Much safer. I'm sure that with a bit of effort we cold make it a social custom, and people would defend it just as furiously as they defend male circ.

Besides, no man would go down on a woman with unclipped labia.

You are just being ridiculous now.

 

[onebadkitty]

Male circumcision is done for health reasons, female circumcision is done so that women cannot enjoy sex and thus will not want to have any until such time as their husband chooses to force an unwanted and excruciatingly painful experience onto them. Slight diff there.

Absolutely! Thank you, Freya.

 

[Freya]

Absolutely! Thank you, Freya.

k, can you fix my typo for me now?

 

[gman23]

Wow! This is definitely Olympic level straw-man building. He never said or implied what you just wrote.

PS: If that's you in your AV, you might want to look up pectus cavatum. It's treatable, you know.

Break is usually pretty logical, but I think this thread touched a nerve.
Perhaps he has some post traumatic circumcision issues?

 

[Ange1icflowers]

if i can't breast feed, then of course he'll get supplements

my mom couldn't breast feed me, and my sister was allergic to breast milk...she had to have goats milk

but if my milk is good and plentiful, then junior will get breast fed exclusively for 6 months, either by my breasts or the breast milk i will store in bottles so his dad and others can feed him too

i really want to wean him from a bottle very early...and those little sippy cups (i'm not sure what they're called...but the ones with the lid and the perforations in the top) are great

Glad to hear that you have an open mind. Some people don't.

And the sippy cups...BOY have we had a problem with them. My 2nd child HATES them. I finally found one he'll drink out of...Tupperware. But they aren't spill-proof. My son is lazy. he doesn't liek to work for it. typical man.

As for potty training...we didn't force the issue. The day he started walking, the potty went into the bathroom. That summer he wanted the pull ups so we said okay. late in the summer he wanted to wear "daddy underwear" so we let him. Well, let's just say he hated having puddles at his feet. A week later he was using the potty regularly.

 

[EarnestImp]

Male circumcision is done for health reasons, female circumcision is done so that women cannot enjoy sex and thus will not want to have any until such time as their husband chooses to force an unwanted and excrutiatingly painful experience onto them. Slight diff there.

No. The medical reasons for male circ are a wash. There are some benefits, but not a significant net benefit. Read the position papers (APA, AMA, etc) that were posted earlier - none of them claim a clear overriding medical advantage.

The reasons for female circ are much more complicated than the oversimplified explanation you give. Read Helen Lightfoot-Klein's book 'Prisoners of Ritual'. Mostly it boils down to the same reason as here: it is customary, and people freak out at having to change their customs and deal with something new. It is the devil you know, as Lightfoot-Klein puts it.

Americans rationalize male circ using the small medical benefits (and ignore the medical risks). Africans rationalize FGM using ideas of initiation, womanhood, and chastity. But it boils down to This is what we are used to, and we're sticking to it.

The European women here are fine with foreskins; only the Americans freak. Same thing.

 

[EarnestImp]

You are just being ridiculous now.

Why? Why would it be wrong to significantly trim a female infant's genitalia, if it did not touch the clitoris and impair sexual function? And people do have a thing for labial aesthetics - small and tight is good, big and floppy is ugly. Lots of plastic surgeons do labiaplasty. So why not fix labia routinely? And external cancers of the genitalia are more common in females than in males, so the less stuff is there, the lower the odds of cancer, presumably. It looks like a good deal all around. Seriously, what are your rational reasons for suggesting that trimming female labia is 'ridiculous'? Not your visceral reaction, but your rational reasons?

 

[thegirlfriday11]

You got it right. They're called sippy cups.

yay

 

[thegirlfriday11]

I know...force wasn't the right word, but my brain isn't functioning very well with vocabulary this morning...

no biggie


i used traumatized earlier in the thread when i should have used a different word

 

[thegirlfriday11]

This is true, if you mean clitoridectomy or infibulation. A reasonable analogy might be trimming the labia. Remember, an adult male loses about an index card's worth of skin when circumcised, so a reasonable female analogue would have to involve a lot of cutting too.

But even a symbolic cut of a female will get you five years in jail. Why not allow both, then (but not clitoridectomy, of course) if it such a little deal? If it is so reasonable, why not let girls get sliced too, in some reasonably comparable manner (but also involve the loss of a fairly large amount of flesh)? Why the double standard? Lots of mean find floppy labia ugly... so slice 'em off in infancy and stop being such squeamish pussies [sic] about it.

circumcision is something for males to deal with ....just like a monthly cycle is for girls to deal with

and believe me....i'd gladly trade any man a little skin for 40 years of periods

 

[thegirlfriday11]

My question is not why you're getting the circumcision done, but why on earth would you start yet another thread in which self righteous preachers can blather on endlessly about how traumatic a snip of skin has been to them?




Male circumcision is done for health reasons, female circumcision is done so that women cannot enjoy sex and thus will not want to have any until such time as their husband chooses to force an unwanted and excruciatingly painful experience onto them. Slight diff there.

that's more than a slight difference

 

[Freya]

that's more than a slight difference

Laurel!!!!!!!! Sarcasm emoticon...stat!

 

[TheOlderGuy]

circumcision is something for males to deal with ....just like a monthly cycle is for girls to deal with

and believe me....i'd gladly trade any man a little skin for 40 years of periods

your monthly cycle is a natural and useful function of the body.

circumcision is neither.

 

[JammieDodger]

foreskin is just extra skin, it serves no purpose, it's dirty, and unattractive....so it's getting cut off

Serves no purpose?

The following is taken from Taylor, J., Lockwood, A., & Taylor, A., “The Prepuce: Specialized Mucosa of the Penis and Its Loss to Circumcision,” British Journal of Urology 77 (1996)

The foreskin represents at least a third of the penile skin. It protects the glans from abrasion and contact with clothes. (4) The foreskin also increases sexual pleasure by sliding up and down on the shaft, stimulating the glans by alternately covering and exposing it. This can occur during masturbation or intercourse. Friction is minimized, and supplementary lubrication is not needed. (5) Without the foreskin, the glans skin, which is normally moist mucous membrane, becomes dry and thickens considerably in response to continued exposure. This change reduces its sensitivity. (6) In addition, the loss of a secretion called smegma of the inner foreskin layer removes natural lubrication. Oral-genital sexual activity is more common in the United States than in many other societies. (7) Could the lack of natural lubrication of the penis due to circumcision be a reason?

You clearly need to improve your medical knowledge, so here is the whole page the above is taken from.

No point in going over the hygene thing again, everything seems to be going over your head.

Unattractive... thats a matter of opinion, I've known very few who find it unattractive, and considering he's your son your opinion hardly matters, whether his cock looks good to you or not certainly shouldn't affect you in any way.

 

[Freya]

For every link against circumcision (god I hate typing that word), there's a link for it. The risks of not having seem slightly higher than the risks of having it, but in the end it boils down to personal choice. And as the baby obviously can't make that choice, it's up to the parents to do so for him.

I find foreskins repulsive, and so to me, that and all the data supporting the procedure would make me choose to have my son done if I was to have one. People that have no issues with foreskins will take a different view on things.

You're not going to change anybody's mind on it - instead all you boys, shouting over the fact that your parents made a decision about your Mr. Happy without consulting you first, sound like a bunch of hysterical women. Get over it - or grow it back if you need it that bad.

 

[EarnestImp]

circumcision is something for males to deal with ....just like a monthly cycle is for girls to deal with

and believe me....i'd gladly trade any man a little skin for 40 years of periods

No, actually males have to deal with a shorter lifespan, baldness, facial shaving, and circ.

I think that baldness alone justifies labial trimming, as a counterbalance. And if not baldness, then the increased risk of heart disease.

Seriously, your logic is so stunningly stupid I find it difficult to comprehend how you can remember to breathe, let alone function in society...let's see what it boils down to Male circ is justified but female labial trimming isn't, because women have periods.

Satire fails me. I can't even begin to mock the absurdity of this. Good lord woman, were you educated by watching Oprah, or was it Socratic dialogues in Roxy's Beauty Salon? Your mistake isn't circing your kid; it is breeding in the first place.

 

[JammieDodger]

You're not going to change anybody's mind on it - instead all you boys, shouting over the fact that your parents made a decision about your Mr. Happy without consulting you first, sound like a bunch of hysterical women. Get over it - or grow it back if you need it that bad.

... ... ...I don't think anyone anti-circumcision here has had the chop, mostly because we know what we'd be losing out on... so you're telling people that aren't here to get over it.

For every link against circumcision (god I hate typing that word), there's a link for it. The risks of not having seem slightly higher than the risks of having it, but in the end it boils down to personal choice. And as the baby obviously can't make that choice, it's up to the parents to do so for him.

No-one has been providing links, and if you google you'd be hard pressed to find them. The risks of not having seem alot less to me than having it.

This is an honest question ladies, would you be okay with the amount of sexual pleasure you can possibly receive to be two thirds less than it is now? And also for it to get number over time.

We can call circumcision something else if you like, I don't know, does Will or Willy sound good to you?

 

[onebadkitty]

k, can you fix my typo for me now?

Fixed it.
How did you even see that?

 

[onebadkitty]

No, actually males have to deal with a shorter lifespan, baldness, facial shaving, and circ.

I think that baldness alone justifies labial trimming, as a counterbalance. And if not baldness, then the increased risk of heart disease.

Seriously, your logic is so stunningly stupid I find it difficult to comprehend how you can remember to breathe, let alone function in society...let's see what it boils down to Male circ is justified but female labial trimming isn't, because women have periods.

Satire fails me. I can't even begin to mock the absurdity of this. Good lord woman, were you educated by watching Oprah, or was it Socratic dialogues in Roxy's Beauty Salon? Your mistake isn't circing your kid; it is breeding in the first place.

First of all, I happen to ADORE bald men, so no counterbalance needed. Secondly, the risk of heart disease levels out after women reach menopause. Thirdly, I never really completely disagreed with your stance. I can absolutely see why people on the outside looking might regard this custom as somewhat barbaric. However, I am disappointed that you have now been reduced to just insulting everyone that disagrees with you. I wish to hear no more of how "well-spoken" and "articulate" and "logical" you are if all you can do is belittle someone who dares to disagree with a friggin' know-it-all.