China responds to Trump's $500 billion-dollar A.I. proposal with a beat-down for the ages

[RobDownSouth]

Brilliantly played, China.

In one swift move, the U.S. no longer leads the A.I. race and China makes the proposed investment look mega-inflated. No doubt this timing was deliberate.

DeepSeek's 'Sputnik moment' sparks rout in AI-linked stocks

LONDON/SINGAPORE (Reuters) -Investors hammered technology stocks on Monday, sending the likes of Nvidia and Oracle plummeting, as the emergence of a low-cost Chinese artificial intelligence model cast doubts on dominance of U.S. companies in this sector.

Startup DeepSeek last week launched a free assistant it says uses less data at a fraction of the cost of incumbent players' models, possibly marking a turning point in the level of investment needed for AI.

https://www.aol.com/chinas-deepseek-sets-off-ai-071458525.html

China's timing was impeccable. I wonder if their DeepSeek product actually works.
AI has always been a power-hungry graphics-intensive endeavor.
It has been the technology "Holy Grail" to find a less power-hungry, less graphics-intensive workaround for years.
The deepest billionaire pockets have funded the smartest human minds trying to find this solution.

Then, after the elderly dotard launches his "Stargate" fantasy, China shrugs and says "oh yeah, look what we've done!"

Less power
Less graphic chips
Faster better output?

I don't think so.

I'm thinking China has somehow "gamed the system".

An imperfect analogy:
A Chinese car and an American car are at the top of a hill.
They look the same, but the Chinese care does not have a motor in it.
The American car does have a motor.
Both cars roll down the steep embankment.
The Chinese car pulls ahead of the American car to win.
....because it didn't have to use a motor.

I suspect a peek "under the hood" will reveal naught but smoke 'n mirrors.

 

[oldguymem]

Untill AI can create realistic porn, not interested

Well they are getting better all the time and do face some limits about age and how realistic they can be even now.

 

[RobDownSouth]

If you’re into development there are several new technologies available. If you’re just a consumer you’re going to have to wait a while longer.

Lithium batteries are already cost effective for many applications. The biggest roadblock to implementation is the high upfront cost of investing in many years of useful equipment. Most of the newest more advanced tech is still prohibitively expensive for most end users because they are not yet produced on a high enough volume to take advantage of higher economy of scale.

Some of the promising technologies include:

* Solid State batteries
Longer lifespan, improved safety, 2-3 x the energy density of current typical EV batteries. The tech is available.

Most people realize that Donald J Trump is a fossil and has the capacity to fuck up a two car funeral.

One of Trump's most egregious fuckups occurred early in his first regime, circa 2017

• The rare (relatively speaking) mineral cobalt was found to dramatically increase the time-between-charges of EV batteries.
• Cobalt suddenly became a much sought after mineral.
• Companies and countries friendly to American sought out American government officials, urging them to purchase and/or secure rights to cobalt mines/manufacturing plants.
• The American government response was always the same..."If it's not petrochemical-related, we're not interested".
• China locked up the market.
• President Joe Biden began a four year program to mitigate Trump's fuckup after assuming office.
• America did acquire some significant mining concessions, particularly in Africa
• Trump's focus on "drill baby drill" basically gave the EV industry outside of America three years headstart to overtake America in EV technology.
• America has been playing catch-up ever since.

 

[ishtat]

Then you should invest in batteries. When the AI stock reacted to china the energy stocks fell too. Investors don't believe in the batteries either. With or without AI we do need more power if we are going to destroy our habitat with dead batteries. The world has already proven they don't recycle. Yet you continue to demand you have the right to promote your toxic ideals to us.

Considering that Warren Buffett bought BYD when they were 100% a battery company and only sold down his interest- at a vast profit , to cover weaker returns in the USA, you may need to re-think that "investor" comment. BYD is now the worlds largest manufacturer of electric vehicles in China that market being bigger than the USA and EU put together. You are displaying your ignorance by saying modern batteries don't re-cycle: they do.

If you’re into development there are several new technologies available. If you’re just a consumer you’re going to have to wait a while longer.

Lithium batteries are already cost effective for many applications. The biggest roadblock to implementation is the high upfront cost of investing in many years of useful equipment. Most of the newest more advanced tech is still prohibitively expensive for most end users because they are not yet produced on a high enough volume to take advantage of higher economy of scale.

Some of the promising technologies include:

* Solid State batteries
Longer lifespan, improved safety, 2-3 x the energy density of current typical EV batteries. The tech is available. Manufacturers are currently working on scalability. (Toyota, QuantumScape, Solid Power)

* Silicon Anode
40% more energy density, faster charge rate than current tech. Still working out some bugs but very promising.

* Aluminum-ion.
Commonly available materials, higher power density, higher charge rates. Still in development

* Several types of Lithium sulfide and Hydrogen Sulfide are under development with very high energy density expected.

* There are many more. I strongly recommend you do some of your own research before regurgitating more anti-science, pro-petroleum talking points.


Countries and manufacturers who invest in these will eat our lunch since our current administration seems to have little interest.

Tesla is doing a lot of battery R&D but a lot of that is being done overseas - particularly in China. Musk didn’t like how Biden didn’t invite him to the US EV manufacturing conference, but grandpa Joe only excluded Tesla because of its anti-union, anti-regulation, pro-China investment and manufacturing. Biden believed American technology investment should be reserved for American companies who support America workers.

Solid summary and interesting to observe that Musk now seems to be more interested in larger scale electricity storage than making cars. Biden's massive subsidies to Legacy US auto were absurd and have ensured that US manufacturers cannot compete in export markets. CATL and BYD(both Chinese) seem to be leading technical development of commercially priced batteries but the US is still very good with the very expensive leading edge technology

 

[AlexBailey]

Most people realize that Donald J Trump is a fossil and has the capacity to fuck up a two car funeral.

One of Trump's most egregious fuckups occurred early in his first regime, circa 2017

• The rare (relatively speaking) mineral cobalt was found to dramatically increase the time-between-charges of EV batteries.
• Cobalt suddenly became a much sought after mineral.
• Companies and countries friendly to American sought out American government officials, urging them to purchase and/or secure rights to cobalt mines/manufacturing plants.
• The American government response was always the same..."If it's not petrochemical-related, we're not interested".
• China locked up the market.
• President Joe Biden began a four year program to mitigate Trump's fuckup after assuming office.
• America did acquire some significant mining concessions, particularly in Africa
• Trump's focus on "drill baby drill" basically gave the EV industry outside of America three years headstart to overtake America in EV technology.
• America has been playing catch-up ever since.

I agree with a lot of your post - except that cobalt is not a necessary ingredient for advanced batteries.

LFP is now one of the most common EV and utility backup battery chemistries and contains zero cobalt.

 

[RobDownSouth]

I agree with a lot of your post - except that cobalt is not a necessary ingredient for advanced batteries.

LFP is now one of the most common EV and utility backup battery chemistries and contains zero cobalt.

You are technically correct, sir!
(Which as Homer Simpson says is the BEST KIND OF CORRECT!)
There is NO cobalt is needed to create an LFP EV battery, which every entry level EV on the market now uses. They are by far the most COMMON EV battery...

But there is also the NMC EV battery, think of it as LFP's steroid-abusing stoner older brother.

NMC batteries (Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide) are 20% cobalt. They have much shorter overall life spans, BUT go longer between charges and probably more importantly, are much more powerful (i.e. ideal for larger family vehicles) and ideal for those poor unfortunate souls who live in climates subject to snow (*waving* Hi Lance!) they can crank easier in subzero weather.

Not sure which MAGAt has "Derpy Duty" fact checking me tonight, but the details are here. *edit* fucking paywall removed

Hey Alex? Do you believe in coincidence?
Wanna here something incredibly coincidental?
Do you know where the world's largest unmined mineral reserves of cobalt are found?

What a coincidence!!

 

[AlexBailey]

You are technically correct, sir!
(Which as Homer Simpson says is the BEST KIND OF CORRECT!)
There is NO cobalt is needed to create an LFP EV battery, which every entry level EV on the market now uses. They are by far the most COMMON EV battery...

But there is also the NMC EV battery, think of it as LFP's steroid-abusing stoner older brother.

NMC batteries (Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide) are 20% cobalt. They have much shorter overall life spans, BUT go longer between charges and probably more importantly, are much more powerful (i.e. ideal for larger family vehicles) and ideal for those poor unfortunate souls who live in climates subject to snow (*waving* Hi Lance!) they can crank easier in subzero weather.

Not sure which MAGAt has "Derpy Duty" fact checking me tonight, but the details are here. *edit* fucking paywall removed

Hey Alex? Do you believe in coincidence?
Wanna here something incredibly coincidental?
Do you know where the world's largest unmined mineral reserves of cobalt are found?

What a coincidence!!

Yeah, I’m aware of the mineral resources of Greenland and how Trump wants to take it from a NATO ally.

 

[jomar]

Someone should mention to trump that Ukraine is a mineral super country and see what happens.

 

[PersonalFavors]

Its not about your minerals

 

[gxnn]

Does anyone in China -- even the Communist Party -- really care about Marxist theory any more?

Of course. The graduates of Marxist major can be easily finding good jobs in educational institutes, because all public funding colleges must have a proportionate number of teachers to teach students what marxist theory is and how it is combined with the social reality of the country. In other words, teachers and staff of other fields may lose their jobs but they will not under the current system and they (Marxist teachers)can earn more than others.
But whether the students believe or accept the theory or not after the intensive education, is another matter. Double face is a skill in the traditional Chinese Peking Opera and people in real life are not unskillful in this respect.
When you issue a policy from the above, there is always a countermeasure from the below. That is the way of life in China.

 

[Politruk]

Of course. The graduates of Marxist major can be easily finding good jobs in educational institutes, because all public funding colleges must have a proportionate number of teachers to teach students what marxist theory is and how it is combined with the social reality of the country. In other words, teachers and staff of other fields may lose their jobs but they will not under the current system and they (Marxist teachers)can earn more than others.
But whether the students believe or accept the theory or not after the intensive education, is another matter. Double face is a skill in the traditional Chinese Peking Opera and people in real life are not unskillful in this respect.
When you issue a policy from the above, there is always a countermeasure from the below. That is the way of life in China.

I sometimes wonder if the Revolution has really changed anything at all about Chinese culture.

Put another way: Is there any significant difference, nowadays, between the culture of the mainland, which has been shaped by decades of Communist rule, and the culture of Taiwan, which has not?