Children and porn

[TheEarl]

Nice provocative thread title there. Who says I don't know how to draw people in with my titles?

Anyway, serious point under the blithering. Was having a discussion with my boss yesterday about the right of teenagers to view pornography on the internet. It started when a customer was talking about how his son had been looking for breasts on the internet (GBHLCS!) and had accidentally installed some spyware which had made breasts pop up all over the place at random occasions. The mother had hit the roof that her poor little innocent 13y/o boy was looking at such filthy disgusting dirty horrible things and had sent the dad and computer to our repair shop to have the breasts removed and for us to install a program that would allow strict control over where the boy could and couldn't go on the internet. I think the planned list of sites consisted solely of the BBC homepage and Football365.

The dad was actually less interested in the security of the Nanny software and more interested in how he could access exemptions so that, when the mum was out, he could direct the boy onto the computer, with instructions to be a little more discreet.

I sincerely applaud that. Apart from the fact that my surreptitious pornography in my youth gives me a great deal of empathy with the boy, I think there are fewer better sexual education tools. Sex ed in English schools is a waste of everyone's time and effort with a couple of clinical videos and an embarrassed biology teacher telling you the correct names for everything. With great respect to the school of "Teach them it in a scientific sense, then they'll understand it better" thinking, it doesn't explain much. I can learn the exact physiology of how my hand works and the particular muscles that control the movement of my fingers. Doesn't prepare me to catch a rugby ball. The only thing short of actual practise is watching someone else do it.

Lit was my sexual education. I never really had the talk with my parents (and would have been mortified had they tried) and no-one really pays attention in Sex-Ed lessons. You're far too busy trying to pretend that you know it all already and in fact have done it several times in all different positions. I knew that there was a thing called the clitoris from Biology, but I didn't really understand its purpose. I knew the man inserted himself into the woman, but I couldn't have pinpointed exactly where between her legs the vagina was in terms of x/y/z. Children don't need to know the physiology as much as they need to know what to do, what the other sex looks like, how everything works. The only way they're going to get that is by looking at pictures and watching videos, not surrounded by classmates, but on their own, with the tissue of their choice.

I'm not advocating a younger age of consent, but children do not turn 16 (or 18 in USA) and are suddenly adult. They will have the sexual urges earlier than 16 and teaching them which muscle allows blood flow into the penis is a lot less use than reading one of the nice articles on Lit and allowing them to learn and expend some of the sexual tension along the way.

I do apologise for the long and rambling litany; I'm very tired and will be going to bed in minutes. The question I'm asking is: Do you believe that it is wrong to allow young teenagers to look at porn? Would you intentionally leave a back door open on your computer for your child to find and use?

The Earl

 

[rgraham666]

My first thought on reading the thread title was, "no".

I'm talking completely off the top of my head here, as I have no children and don't plan on fathering any, but that's going to depend on the teenager, and the porn.

I would try to make sure my kids are mature enough to handle their learning about sex without bursting into fits of giggles.

And there is some porn that I would rather my kids not see, as said porn actually has little to do with sex.

The biggest problem of course would be to get my kids to listen to me. When sex starts to become interesting to them is just about the same point they wish their parents would curl up and die.

 

[R. Richard]

[Embarrassed father to his teenage son] I think we need to have a little talk about sex.

[Teenage son] Ok Dad, what do you need to know?

 

[CrazyyAngel]

Do you believe that it is wrong to allow young teenagers to look at porn?

Depends on the maturity of the child and depends very much on the porn. The child in your example won't suffer any long term damage from looking at bare tits on the internet. That may change once it sees certain forms of porn ... The usual she blows him, than the other way around and than they fuck should be ok I guess (I'll tell you when I have kids ).

I wouldn't want to keep my child from everything whats going on in the world. Trying to forbid something results only in the kid pursuing it even harder. Maybe that backdoor thingy you mentioned might be a good idea. The kid would think it found a way to cheat the parents rules and the parents wouldn't have to embarrass themselves with having an akward talk about things ...

CA

 

[Weird Harold]

The question I'm asking is: Do you believe that it is wrong to allow young teenagers to look at porn? Would you intentionally leave a back door open on your computer for your child to find and use?

I wouldn't leave a "back-door" to unrestricted Porn for a child, but I might specifically authorize a site like Lit for their access with the understanding that I'd answer any questions that might arise about the believablitiy of the stories here.

It all boils down to parents knowing what their kids are acessing on the internet. Of course, Kids are often more compuer savvy than their parents and are going to find or make their own "back-door" access to Porn so the communication between parent and child about appropriate material for browsing is the critical element.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

I don't think I'd encourage my child to view pornography. I don't think I'd allow surfing the net for porn. I wouldn't install web-locks, but would likely punish the child for doing it--breeds better behavioral control.

 

[Weird Harold]

I don't think I'd encourage my child to view pornography. I don't think I'd allow surfing the net for porn. I wouldn't install web-locks, but would likely punish the child for doing it--breeds better behavioral control.

A sensible approach. Define the behavior you expect and then enforce your expectations.

I think how you define "porn" is important to the definition of what is permissible, though.

In many ways, allowing -- or at least not discouraging --access to a certain level of sexual content is comparable to my Mother buying me my first subscription to Playboy for my birthday; It was just her way of "having the talk" without actually having to confront the issue head-on.

My mother could have chosen a subscription to Penthouse, Penthouse Forums, or any of several increasingly sleazy "true confessions" magazines that were the 1960's equivalent of Porn sites. Playboy's level of naked pictures vs thoughtful commentary and useful information is where my mother drew the line.

Where would you (both Joe and the generic "you") draw the line between "avoiding the Talk" and "allowing access to Pornography?"

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by Weird Harold
A sensible approach. Define the behavior you expect and then enforce your expectations.

I think how you define "porn" is important to the definition of what is permissible, though.

In many ways, allowing -- or at least not discouraging --access to a certain level of sexual content is comparable to my Mother buying me my first subscription to Playboy for my birthday; It was just her way of "having the talk" without actually having to confront the issue head-on.

My mother could have chosen a subscription to Penthouse, Penthouse Forums, or any of several increasingly sleazy "true confessions" magazines that were the 1960's equivalent of Porn sites. Playboy's level of naked pictures vs thoughtful commentary and useful information is where my mother drew the line.

Where would you (both Joe and the generic "you") draw the line between "avoiding the Talk" and "allowing access to Pornography?"

Honestly, Playboy is an exceptional way to break the ice with the matter... but for the child's sake, I'd want to preserve their not being embarrassed by confrontation on it. If I found that my son had a Playboy under his mattress, I'd be happy about that. Tasteful, with loads of other things going along.

I think I'd allow access to things like Maxims and Stuffs... Victoria Secret Catalogs... but I draw the line at allowing anything more than soft-core situations to be present. Nothing graphic. Got his whole life to expose himself to graphic.

 

[Guest]

The question is too out of context. So much goes into raising a child, including attitudes to sex, gender roles and stereotypes. From the time my sons began to watch television (outside of Sesame St., fantasy cartoons and nature shows), pay attention to billboards and go to popular movies with friends, I made sure they knew it was not reality; e.g., only a small percent of women (and men) looked like models or film and TV stars, and that with great aid from makeup artists, lighting, etc. They learned to appreciate other people through their intellect, imagination, moral values, etc. (For a class when he was only 8 or 9, my younger son needed to provide the names of three famous women during some special holiday. He gave the names of two opera singers and Greta Garbo cos he knew I liked them.)

I didn't have 'the talk' with them, they preferred learning from their father, who though absent, was available to teach them about sex and sexual relations in agreement with me.

When my sons were 10 and 13 a family 'friend' showed them really smutty porn. I didn't find out for years, but when my adult son told me about it, I understood he and his brother were very disturbed by it. I regard that action a form of child molestation.

I found Playboy under my teenage sons' mattresses but never said anything. I don't think they thought it wrong or bad, just something they'd rather their mom not know about. Myself, if I had thought of it, would not have given them Playboy or any porn wherein women were 'perfect' looking. If anything now, I'd give them 'home' porn of real people with real bodies.

Perdita

 

[Jagged]

Children should not view porn. Plain and simple but as in the UK...sex education is little help in the US. Has to be a balance between school and home.

Porn is not educational in anyway and let's face it isn't even real sex. Don't get me wrong I like it but it is not reality as far a sex goes (people that do those movies are special ex. last forever or huge breasts skinny waste.) Sex education needs a overhall.

Should vidoes be used maybe? But with regular people and children should talk about it after with a teacher perhaps. Though scaring kids is not a smart thing consquences need to be made clear. When it comes to things like dieases for example I know few adults who have all the facts.

 

[Weird Harold]

Porn is not educational in anyway and let's face it isn't even real sex. Don't get me wrong I like it but it is not reality as far a sex goes (people that do those movies are special ex. last forever or huge breasts skinny waste.) Sex education needs a overhaul.

The problem is, just exactly what is this "Porn" that children shouldn't be allowed to see?

Some people would say it's the anatomicaly correct "Visible Body" kits from the 1950's or the charts and diagrams used in what passes for Sex-Ed in most places.

My mother didn't consider Playboy to be "porn" and I'm not sure about Penthouse. Penthouse Forums on the other hand WERE "Porn" according to her.

Where do we draw the line between "eductional" and "Porn?"

 

[Jagged]

You raise a good question......what is smut and what is beautiful erotic educational material.

I would probably know when I saw it but that is not a good standard. But as far as sex education what ever is being done now isn't working.

 

[Weird Harold]

I would probably know when I saw it but that is not a good standard. But as far as sex education what ever is being done now isn't working.

Sex-ed in schools is not working, and there's no consistency to other sex-education. "Let them learn about sex in the locker room and behind the school-house like I did" is an all too frequent solution ot sex education.

I mentioned the "Visible Body" model kits from the 1950's in my last post. I went to google to see if I could find and image and.or link for the younger generation to explain what I was talking about.

Assembling the"Visible Man" kit was the majority of my education about the human body (and disassembling my sister's "Visible Woman" kit, now tha tI think about it ) but it seems that they're not even collectibles amenable to an easy search key.

 

[GingerV]

It's the key question, isn't it. What is porn? I personally know folks who think that parents who let their kids wander through a Maplethorpe exhibit ought to be prosecuted. Not my favorite folks, but you can't choose all your family members.

I think it's important to remember that we did it. We went out and found images, or stories, when we were curious enough to want to know. Trying to keep a teen away from sex entirely is like trying to make water run uphill. It keeps therapists in business, but doesn't ever seem to do a lot of good.

I think I'd model myself on Perdita, given the chance. Make sure the channels of communication are open, but let them pick thier own time for awakening. I wouldn't make a fuss if I caught them snooping online, hell...I hope they don't make a fuss if they catch me!! But at the same time, if I thought they were into something that was too over the top, we'd talk about why they were looking at it, and why I didn't approve of that choice.

Man, my kids are gonna hate me .

G

 

[AmoralAuthor]

I have two kids -- a daughter age 15 and a son age 12. Sex has been a regular subject for discussion with both of them for years now. I don't worry about my kids because I'm one of those parents who doesn't let a day go by without talking to them about their lives, their friends, school, and things they decide to bring to me. I work in the home, so I'm available at all times, and they have little chance to get into things without consent.

Internet time is supervised. No, I don't like them wandering the porn sites. I don't allow it. However, I'm not with them when they visit other homes, or even the home of their grandmother.

A little story -- my daughter, about three or four years ago, was at Grandma's house. Grandma has a computer, no nanny, and the daughter had complete run after Grandma went to bed at 9 or so. Daughter got stuck on the porn sites because of the pop-ups. The computer froze, and she panicked. (When my mother told me this, I had a lot of trouble to keep from laughing.) The daughter had to wake her grandma in the middle of the night because she thought she broke the computer. Grandma was prudishly shocked, and read me the riot act because she didn't supervise the child.

Just goes to show, you can't protect your children from the real world. All you can do is be there to answer questions, talk about issues, and be aware of any potential hazards. The choices are the kids', not the parents. I can only hope I've taught my kids enough about respect, both self and for others, that they treat things like porn with some amount of maturity.

BTW -- my entire computer is off limits to the kids unless I'm standing there behind them. I have too many files, even without the internet, that would cause society to scream at me for allowing them to view. And they observe this, mainly because I never leave the house unless they're gone, and because they have computers of their own, with no internet access, in their rooms.

Amoral

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I grew up in the pre-internet age, and we had to scratch and scramble for our porn, but we managed to get it. In this day and age it's pretty hard to grow up without being slapped in the face with sex at every turn, so I always assumed that my kids would get porn wheneverif they wanted it, so I never made a big effort to deny it to them.

I don't subscribe to the notion that seeing porn at a young age will turn kids into hopeless perverts or scar them for life. If you're too young to understand what it's about and why these people are doing these weird things, you're not likely to look for it, and you'll probably ignore it if you stumble across it.

My own expereince with learning the Facts of Life from a parent was one of the most awkward and humiliating experiences of my adolescence. Like most kids, I already knew all about it before my old man took me aside, and I would never put my kid or myself through that kind of ordeal, trying to sound all matter-of-fact and buddy-buddy while you're sweating bullets and red in the face. The awkwardness of that 'coversation' I had with my dad and the way it made us avoid each other for days afterwards far outweighed whatever dubious pedagogical benefits it might have had.

We're pretty open about sex and drugs at my house. My kids know that I have friends who smoke dope, and they know that their daddy writes stories that they can't see (they've never asked to see them either), so I think they know what's what. I expect that they'll experiemnt with both, which I think is entirely normal, and I think the knowledge that their dad has already been there and done that will make drugs at least a lot less attractive. What's most important to me is that my kids are always able to tell me the truth without fear that I'll come down on them with all this hyocritical parental righteousness.

---dr.M.

 

[GingerV]

What's most important to me is that my kids are always able to tell me the truth without fear that I'll come down on them with all this hyocritical parental righteousness.

Amen, sir. I've not yet had to raise my own...but I hope that I manage to reach that sort of understanding. I figure you have to let teenagers pull away and make their own mistakes, the greatest gift I can give them is a safe haven to run back to.

Tough job, parenting. Makes me wonder if I'm really up for it, sometimes.

G

 

[McKenna]

My husband grew up with a different outlook on "porn." (He's Dutch.) I'm using him as an example, because his upbringing was MUCH different than mine, and I rather like the way he turned out.

For starters, tits are shown on everyday regular television in Holland, no big deal. Tits are tits are tits. (I rather think this is a healhty attitude.) His father subscribed to a magazine (can't remember the title, maybe Black Tulip would know?) that's kind of like "People" in America, but this entertainment mag also containted pictures of women's tits. (Tits only, nothing below the waist.) Again, I have no problem with this.

I would have a problem with my teenager viewing porn that I find offensive: forced/deep throat oral, bestiality, fake rape, and what appear to be underrage women (though really, they're 18!) with much older men. I think that kind of porn perpetuates the idea of women as victims, and I don't like that. I don't want my son growing up with that warped view of women, and I don't want my daughter growing up thinking that's "normal" for a woman to accept or take. (I have no children yet, so I'm speaking hypothetically.)

But how to know what your son or daughter is viewing? Keep the lines of communication open. Educate them to make wise decisions. And maybe most importantly, let them know it's "Ok" to feel sexual urges, it's normal and healthy. Then teach them healthy ways to deal with said urges.

 

[TheEarl]

To be honest, it's actually quite difficult for a teenage boy to find porn on the internet. I know, I know, the entire web's filled with the stuff, but getting to it is something of a mission. If you're bereft of a credit card and under 18, you can't get into any of the pay sites. Once you're outside of them, the only option is the dubious 'free' site, which lead you around in circles of advertisements and pop-ups, without ever actually showing you anything beyond previews, or the altruistic sites, like Lit, where the site is kept free and spyware free, simply to provide a public service. People have talked about the nasty kinds of porn, but they're actually very hard to get to, when you're young.

The Earl

 

[CrazyyAngel]

To be honest, it's actually quite difficult for a teenage boy to find porn on the internet. I know, I know, the entire web's filled with the stuff, but getting to it is something of a mission. If you're bereft of a credit card and under 18, you can't get into any of the pay sites. Once you're outside of them, the only option is the dubious 'free' site, which lead you around in circles of advertisements and pop-ups, without ever actually showing you anything beyond previews, or the altruistic sites, like Lit, where the site is kept free and spyware free, simply to provide a public service. People have talked about the nasty kinds of porn, but they're actually very hard to get to, when you're young.

The Earl

Not as hard as you may think. On top of my head I could name a couple of sites, where popups and stuff are no problem and where you see everything. And once your kid learns how to handle a filesharing program he has access to just about everything. Just type a search string and there you have it ... Welcome to the Internet .

CA

 

[McKenna]

To be honest, it's actually quite difficult for a teenage boy to find porn on the internet. I know, I know, the entire web's filled with the stuff, but getting to it is something of a mission. If you're bereft of a credit card and under 18, you can't get into any of the pay sites. Once you're outside of them, the only option is the dubious 'free' site, which lead you around in circles of advertisements and pop-ups, without ever actually showing you anything beyond previews, or the altruistic sites, like Lit, where the site is kept free and spyware free, simply to provide a public service. People have talked about the nasty kinds of porn, but they're actually very hard to get to, when you're young.

I have two "video collection" sites within my favorites. You can download three to six 10-20 second clips from porn videos. Trust me, you can see anything you want from lesbian/gay action to shemales, and it's all totally gratis, no pop-ups either.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

I think I'd still agree with the man, its not terribly easy to surf porn for free as a teenager. Finding this or that isn't too bad, but searching in a major search engine? Short of specific site names, all one gets back is garbled router sites and thumbnails and advertisements.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

To be honest, it's actually quite difficult for a teenage boy to find porn on the internet. I know, I know, the entire web's filled with the stuff, but getting to it is something of a mission. If you're bereft of a credit card and under 18, you can't get into any of the pay sites. Once you're outside of them, the only option is the dubious 'free' site, which lead you around in circles of advertisements and pop-ups, without ever actually showing you anything beyond previews, or the altruistic sites, like Lit, where the site is kept free and spyware free, simply to provide a public service. People have talked about the nasty kinds of porn, but they're actually very hard to get to, when you're young.

The Earl

Gorilla links dot com. All the porn you could wish, free and updated daily. From pictures to movie clips. And there are literlally hundreds if not thousands just like it.

For me the main thing isn't what you define porn as, it's what a parent thinks is appropriate for their child. I think a mother or father is probably the best judge of what little Timmy is able to handle or at least they should be.

Sex is out there. At what age you become interested in it probably varries wildly from peron to person, nation to nation, culture to culture. Cultures that don't stigmatize it probably have fewer problems with it.

-Colly

 

[cloudy]

I have a 15 year old son, so some of this has definitely made me think.

I wouldn't freak out if he was looking at Playboy, or even catching some porn on the net since we have a very, very open and comfortable relationship, and are able to talk about everything. He knows I write, and what I write, and although I don't believe I would be comfortable with him reading my stories (just kind of a weird feeling there), I don't think reading some (not all) of the stories here would warp him in any way.

My main concern would be that he not get the idea that women are to be treated as objects where sex is concerned. That said, I don't believe he would ever feel that way to begin with because of the way he's been raised.

Interesting.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Children are rarely interested in porn. Teenagers are interested in porn, though, and they will get to it, whether their parents want it or not.

The way I was raised was: if I'm old enough to want to know more about something, if I'm resourceful enough to get to it, I'm old enough to know it. Trying to stop me is counterproductive and a waste of time.