Characters or Conflict?

[minsue]

Posted twice, dude, but I still like your post.
--Z

I'm confused. Which one of us are you saying is SnP? Did I miss an alt?

 

[Samandiriel]

I recently had a fun story idea, but there is no real conflict. I don't think I typically write fluff or pure stroke, but I keep spinning this idea around in my head anyway.

So, I'm curious.

Can well developed characters carry a short story for you?

or

Must there be some kind of conflict?

~lucky

I don't see this as a question but as a challenge, do you think you can make them carry it off?
Is there a need to create an antagonistic state? have discord or give rise to opposition?

You decide, you are the creator.

 

[yui]

I'm confused. Which one of us are you saying is SnP? Did I miss an alt?

I join you in your confusion. But then I am clueless.

 

[minsue]

I join you in your confusion. But then I am clueless.

I'm in good company at least

 

[hmmnmm]

The very fact that you wonder and post this question betrays conflict within you. I bet if you go and write the thing, with the conscious intent of keeping any and all sort of conflict out of it, that can create a conflict itself. Did you ever get your head full of sexual imagery and ideas then sit down to write anything but? Go read some war books, then come back and write about peace. Go start an argument with someone and then come back and write about resolution. Conflict could possibly be implied by its very omission.
If that made any sense.

 

[LadyJeanne]

I'm not sure what a stroke story is. Really. All the stories that get me off have got conflict in them. I don't know if you're describing those vignettes, which are almost pure voyeristic descriptions of sex.

Maybe it's the sadomasochist in me, but when everything's hunky dory between the protagonists, I don't get aroused.

AHA! So you're the one who's been one-bombing my smutty vignettes.

Dear Joe,

If my sorry little plotless and conflictless vignettes don't get you off, would you mind just back-clicking out of them?

Respectfully,
Jeanne

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Thanks, everyone! I tend to agree that well drawn characters can carry most any story. I also think each character's internal conflict appeals to me more than a plot based on conflict, thus tying a group of characters into the story.

Lucky,

To what those other folks said, I agree. But I wanted to add that there is a thrid C, change. Any character development involves change. And in that change there is often some conflict, if only with the memory of what was battling the reality of what is. The sub genre coming-of-age is based on that idea.

Rumple Foreskin

I like this. It's like a lesser version of conflict, in my eyes anyway. None of my characters are perfect, leaving their flaws for proper exploitation by yours truly.

It's just that I've read so many times that conflict is essential to moving a story, framing a story, being the foundation of a story or what have you, and my idea is fairly shallow in a fun sort of sweaty sex way. Sometimes, though it may not be as enticing, there are just two interesting people bumping uglies. Where's the conflict in that, unless contrived and/or out of place?

~lucky

 

[lucky-E-leven]

The very fact that you wonder and post this question betrays conflict within you. I bet if you go and write the thing, with the conscious intent of keeping any and all sort of conflict out of it, that can create a conflict itself. Did you ever get your head full of sexual imagery and ideas then sit down to write anything but? Go read some war books, then come back and write about peace. Go start an argument with someone and then come back and write about resolution. Conflict could possibly be implied by its very omission.
If that made any sense.

Good point, except the first sentence.

I'm not really conflicted about it. I just wondered if the majority here subscribed to the notion that conflict between characters, or even internally to a degree, was necessary to hold a reader's interest. I don't necessarily think so because I have enjoyed many stories/books that contained little conflict at all. I enjoy the mental voyeurism quality of what's happening to other people. Sometimes it's just an autobiographical account of a day, I'm still entertained. (Like a diary) Other times, it's simple gossip. Maybe I'm weird, but I'm interested in people in general, their conflicts and sometimes even the lack thereof.

~lucky

 

[hmmnmm]

Good point, except the first sentence.

I'm not really conflicted about it. I just wondered if the majority here subscribed to the notion that conflict between characters, or even internally to a degree, was necessary to hold a reader's interest. I don't necessarily think so because I have enjoyed many stories/books that contained little conflict at all. I enjoy the mental voyeurism quality of what's happening to other people. Sometimes it's just an autobiographical account of a day, I'm still entertained. (Like a diary) Other times, it's simple gossip. Maybe I'm weird, but I'm interested in people in general, their conflicts and sometimes even the lack thereof.

~lucky

Stand corrected on that presumed fact - if any fact can be presumed.
But you do ask about the lack of conflict being able to hold a reader's interest. The first question that arises would be: how far will the reader retain interest if there is no conflict? 1000 words? 10,000? 100,000. Again, maybe the writer of the works that you've enjoyed experienced conflict of some kind in their own lives but in their avoidance to dwell on their own conflicts put all their energies to the avoidance of that One Thing.
Wish you the best on your idea.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Stand corrected on that presumed fact - if any fact can be presumed.
But you do ask about the lack of conflict being able to hold a reader's interest. The first question that arises would be: how far will the reader retain interest if there is no conflict? 1000 words? 10,000? 100,000. Again, maybe the writer of the works that you've enjoyed experienced conflict of some kind in their own lives but in their avoidance to dwell on their own conflicts put all their energies to the avoidance of that One Thing.
Wish you the best on your idea.

I agree that the longer a piece is, the less ability it will have to maintain a reader's interest based on characters alone. As to the actual number of words required for a reader to lose interest, I'm not sure. I suspect, unless there are a whole host of characters, the number would be less than 25,000. (Give or take ) What say you?

I also really liked your idea about intentionally leaving out an item of concern while attempting to write its opposite counterpart. I might take that up as a challenge soon. Thanks so much.

 

[hmmnmm]

I agree that the longer a piece is, the less ability it will have to maintain a reader's interest based on characters alone. As to the actual number of words required for a reader to lose interest, I'm not sure. I suspect, unless there are a whole host of characters, the number would be less than 25,000. (Give or take ) What say you?

I also really liked your idea about intentionally leaving out an item of concern while attempting to write its opposite counterpart. I might take that up as a challenge soon. Thanks so much.

18,399. No more.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

18,399. No more.

I shall use that as my target and my cut off.

Thank you, kind sir. (Now who's being presumptuous?)

~lucky

 

[NoJo]

AHA! So you're the one who's been one-bombing my smutty vignettes.

Dear Joe,

If my sorry little plotless and conflictless vignettes don't get you off, would you mind just back-clicking out of them?

Respectfully,
Jeanne

(off to read your stories now...)

Edited to add: LJ, I detect some conflict between us...

 

[hmmnmm]

I shall use that as my target and my cut off.

Thank you, kind sir. (Now who's being presumptuous?)

~lucky

No presumption here, and you're very welcome, madam

 

[dr_mabeuse]

A man and a woman decide to have sex. Where's the conflict?

This place is full of stories like that.

Personally, I don't care for sex between happy, loving people, because, like Joe said, there's not enough tension in there for me. But apparently someone likes them because they're all over the place here.

 

[Softouch911]

Great discussion.

Conflict in fiction doesn't necessarily refer to disagreement or a collision of some sort, I think. It is often just a tension.

Herbert meets Sylvia.
Herb and Syl fall in love.

will it work out for them, or no?

And in the fuck scene w/Herb & Syl it's the same thing -- what happens next? Pure stroke or not, we want to know how they get there, and tension rises from all the possibilities for everything from disaster to bliss, or from vanilla to kink.

I think the only story with no conflict (tension) would have all the characters, and the narrator, dead. In life conflict is marked by clearer and highly emotional opposition.



Softouch

 

[LadyJeanne]

(off to read your stories now...)

Edited to add: LJ, I detect some conflict between us...

You're angling for a bit of hot make-up sex, aren't you?

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Oh just write the damn thing, it'll be great.

God, must I be your fricken cheerleader???

This doesn't help my depression or fuel my surliness.

 

[Quiet_Cool]

Lucky,

To what those other folks said, I agree. But I wanted to add that there is a thrid C, change. Any character development involves change. And in that change there is often some conflict, if only with the memory of what was battling the reality of what is. The sub genre coming-of-age is based on that idea.

Rumple Foreskin

Yep. A well-written character-driven story will automatically involve conflict, merely because real people deal with conflict. Those characters will carry conflict with them regardless of what drives the story.

The question is: Can you write a story, with a beginning and end, without conflict?

A humor one? Possibly. Otherwise, I don't think it's possible.

Just my opinion,

Q_C

 

[NoJo]

You're angling for a bit of hot make-up sex, aren't you?

I'd love it. As long as we just do it really mechanically. I don't you want to fight or scratch, bite or struggle. I don't want to pin your arms to your sides or anything.

 

[LadyJeanne]

I'd love it. As long as we just do it really mechanically. I don't you want to fight or scratch, bite or struggle. I don't want to pin your arms to your sides or anything.

...isn't that...a story without conflict?

 

[hmmnmm]

Great discussion.

Conflict in fiction doesn't necessarily refer to disagreement or a collision of some sort, I think. It is often just a tension.

Herbert meets Sylvia.
Herb and Syl fall in love.

will it work out for them, or no?



Softouch

Herbert reaches into Sylvia's pants and meets Sylvester. Conflict ensues.

 

[NoJo]

...isn't that...a story without conflict?

Yes, but I just love your Slot B.

 

[NoJo]

Herbert reaches into Sylvia's pants and meets Sylvester. Conflict ensues.

Perfect.

The orginal was the beginning of a story. Now you've taken it to "Plot Point 1", as Syd Field called it, where the story "spins around and takes off".

 

[lucky-E-leven]

I guess everyone has a different personal definition of conflict.

When I posed the question, I had conflict defined as something to be overcome, i.e. negative.

Tension, I think, is altogether different and can be positive or negative.

~lucky

p.s. I never meant to imply that the story would be nothing more than a graphic display of sex, but rather could interesting (possibly internally conflicted) individuals intrigue enough to make a story successful without a center-line of some obstacle they're attempting to traverse.