character's moral descending trajectory effect on series

[EroticFriction]

Hi everyone, I'm fairly new to Literotica, and have just posted my first 3 works (beginning of a series) here.

I'm curious about what other authors feel about the effect a morally descending character can have on the sex in a series. Personally I like stories like that, as long as there is a kind of redemption to be found at some point in the arc, though I also love a tragic ending (but not as much).

In my series, part 4 is about to be quite different, as the main character finally implements her idiotic plan to find her missing friend by going 'undercover' at an escort agency / brothel. I've already written this chapter, but I'm a slightly hesitant to post it as the sex includes food insertion (it's partly lighthearted and funny, but also quite graphic).

The first three chapters have been mostly straight sex - mf vaginal, blowjobs, anal, an mff threesome, and a bunch of masturbation and exhibitionism / teasing.

In the long run this story will get darker and harder in terms of sex. more dub-con / non-con, more kinks, some BDSM, and what I hope is a thorough examination of what it feels like for the main character to abandon her conceived notions about herself and her sexuality, and succumb to doing sex acts she never would have considered before the beginning of this story.

I wanted a slow burn descent for the main character. But I found myself just going with the food gag because it flowed naturally from her first escort experience. She hadn't planned to actually have sex with strangers for money, she was hoping to get the information she needed before that ever happened, but things don't go her way, so she tries to use ketchup in her panties to turn the client off. Sadly it backfires, he loves red weddings, so she changes tactics and 'confesses' a food fetish (she doesn't actually have one) trying to gross him out with the description of a polish sausage with sauerkraut and relish in her lady parts. Obviously adhering to reality and or proper hygene is not a thing in my story). Things escalate and she ends up using a celery bunch and ranch dressing in ways not exactly intended.

I would appreciate any thoughts. I realize without reading all chapters it would be difficult for anyone to give me a focused opinion, but just based on my description I'd be grateful for any thoughts.

Thanks so much,

EF

my stories

 

[EmilyMiller]

Hi,

I’m sorry, but with writing and beta-reading (plus work every now and again) I don’t have time to read these.

But welcome to AH.

Em

 

[Bramblethorn]

So you're talking about a "respectable character slides into depravity" kind of arc?

Can't say I've written one, but I've read a few. It's a genre where planning and pacing are particularly important. Otherwise what often happens is that the depravity outruns the plot, the protagonist gets to "raving sex fiend" long before the plot reaches any kind of resolution, and then the author has to go to more and more ridiculous lengths to maintain that downwards trajectory, or else the sex gets kind of same-y.

 

[EroticFriction]

Yes exactly, thanks. It's why I'm reluctant to post, and may have to pull the gag. But I also think it's a shame to lose as I find it genuinely funny and kind of hot.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

In the long run this story will get darker and harder in terms of sex. more dub-con / non-con, more kinks, some BDSM, and what I hope is a thorough examination of what it feels like for the main character to abandon her conceived notions about herself and her sexuality, and succumb to doing sex acts she never would have considered before the beginning of this story.

This doesn't have to be tragic. Sounds like a personal redemption arc to me. Moral descension is subjective. Lots of examples of MCs trudging through the depths of their own personal hell to come out the other side finally understanding the true nature of who they are. Sure who they are may be debaucherous and depraved by societies standards, but if they accept themselves, and are content with that, then fuck society, right?

 

[Euphony]

Yes exactly, thanks. It's why I'm reluctant to post, and may have to pull the gag. But I also think it's a shame to lose as I find it genuinely funny and kind of hot.

That seems excessive.

If it's motivating enough to have written multiple works, it's certainly worth writing through the problem.

Yes, if you had plotted it all from the start, it *had a better chance* to be better but not an all or nothing affair.

Shore up trouble spots. Or, don't hook only on the direct mainline of your original plotting, make a bit of a B-story or a mini-arc if needs be.

 

[EroticFriction]

This will definitely be a personal redemption / discovery arc, that's the plan in the outline. Just wanting to make sure I don't jump too far forward in that specific arc for the MC and get same-y as Bramblethorn mentioned. This is a multi layered story with a bit of an ensemble cast, so several other arcs as well, including the main story plot which is separate from the MCs moral descent / redemption one.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think this kind of story works better at Literotica as a personal redemption/discovery story than as a tragedy. It can be done.

Concentrate on the tone you want. From your initial description, it sounds like you are aiming for a somewhat comic tone, which works fine for this subject matter.

There's a big fanbase for stories about seemingly normal characters who find themselves in outrageous, sometimes degrading sexual situations, and they alternate between feelings of humiliation and sexual ecstasy, with elements of self discovery (i.e., "I never realized what a slut I was"). I enjoy some of these stories, and some of my stories touch on these elements. It can definitely work.

My recommendation: try not to do too much. Don't throw in every kink imaginable. Concentrate on your character and her feelings about what she's going through. That's where the real kinkiness lies. You can always write another story if you want to explore another kink.

An example of a Lit story series that explores this theme, which I read a long time ago, is Davidwriter's Car Show Slut series, about a respectable woman executive who, to help a coworker/friend, volunteers to be a "car show model" and gets wrapped in up in wild exhibitionist and sexual adventures. That tension between "I can't believe I'm doing this" and "I love doing this" is great for erotica.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Yes exactly, thanks. It's why I'm reluctant to post, and may have to pull the gag. But I also think it's a shame to lose as I find it genuinely funny and kind of hot.

Remember that "genuinely funny" for one person is "cringe worthy" for the next guy.

I don't think I'd ever make a literary decision based on "comedy", setting aside any country/cultural differences that are out there.

From what I'm reading, you're overthinking this. Why don't you write the next bunch of chapters, see how it's all hanging together, then publish?

It seems to me that you're falling into a place where one dumb chapter decision might cock up the rest of the story.

 

[Djmac1031]

Things escalate and she ends up using a celery bunch and ranch dressing in ways not exactly intended.

Look, I'm never one to tell anyone how or what to write in their stories.

But I'm also a realist. If you include that kind of thing, just understand you're now writing for a very niche audience. And the average reader probably won't get it.

And that's fine, as long as you understand going in.

 

[AchtungNight]

I usually don't have my characters descend into further and further debauchery. It makes me uncomfortable to write that. Why not just have lots of sex without moral and emotional messes? Or is that unrealistic? I don't know.

 

[Bramblethorn]

This doesn't have to be tragic. Sounds like a personal redemption arc to me. Moral descension is subjective. Lots of examples of MCs trudging through the depths of their own personal hell to come out the other side finally understanding the true nature of who they are. Sure who they are may be debaucherous and depraved by societies standards, but if they accept themselves, and are content with that, then fuck society, right?

I'll plug @AwkwardMD's Human Resource as a great example of this kind of story.

 

[EroticFriction]

These are all excellent thoughts and contributions, thank you so much.

I enjoy reading and writing strong character arcs, especially falls from grace with some kind of redemption. The comedy and the noncon dubcon aspects are risky, yes, but intrinsic to the story and my interests. I don't mind if it reduces my readership, kind of expect that, but the advice about not throwing everything in is valid and I'll keep that in mind.

Since this is to be a longish series I figured I could get away with a bit more of a spectrum by sticking to specific ones per chapter and giving an authors note describing the specific content contained in each, plus I'm meticulous about the tags. Also chapters have different categories, that's something I see a lot on lit series

 

[Britva415]

this story will get darker and harder in terms of sex. more dub-con / non-con, more kinks, some BDSM, and what I hope is a thorough examination of what it feels like for the main character to abandon her conceived notions about herself and her sexuality, and succumb to doing sex acts she never would have considered before the beginning of this story.

I wanted a slow burn descent for the main character

Is what you described in this paragraph supposed to be the moral descent you referred to?

Just asking because kink-shaming probaby won't be welcome in the BDSM category. Even if it's a kink some of them don't particularly share.

 

[EroticFriction]

No kink shaming, and anything with even a hint of reluctance, dubious, or non consent will be in the noncon / reluctance category. Probably no chapters will be in the bdsm category.

From chapter 4 on the MC has a choice to not participate in any of the acts, but in order to achieve her goal she must go through with it, so that's the element of dubious consent. And with each 'line' crossed, her investment increases and as does her motivation to complete the goal.

I'm not super concerned with appealing to everyone, I know that's impossible, and I know the themes I'm interested in aren't always the most popular, for instance I have zero interest in IC/ Taboo.

But my main concern is making the descent / retribution arc work and I feel like I've got really good suggestions so far, and my sense is I should maybe tone down the MCs first escort experience so there's room for the arc.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Hi everyone, I'm fairly new to Literotica, and have just posted my first 3 works (beginning of a series) here.

I'm curious about what other authors feel about the effect a morally descending character can have on the sex in a series. Personally I like stories like that, as long as there is a kind of redemption to be found at some point in the arc, though I also love a tragic ending (but not as much).

In my series, part 4 is about to be quite different, as the main character finally implements her idiotic plan to find her missing friend by going 'undercover' at an escort agency / brothel. I've already written this chapter, but I'm a slightly hesitant to post it as the sex includes food insertion (it's partly lighthearted and funny, but also quite graphic).

The first three chapters have been mostly straight sex - mf vaginal, blowjobs, anal, an mff threesome, and a bunch of masturbation and exhibitionism / teasing.

In the long run this story will get darker and harder in terms of sex. more dub-con / non-con, more kinks, some BDSM, and what I hope is a thorough examination of what it feels like for the main character to abandon her conceived notions about herself and her sexuality, and succumb to doing sex acts she never would have considered before the beginning of this story.

I wanted a slow burn descent for the main character. But I found myself just going with the food gag because it flowed naturally from her first escort experience. She hadn't planned to actually have sex with strangers for money, she was hoping to get the information she needed before that ever happened, but things don't go her way, so she tries to use ketchup in her panties to turn the client off. Sadly it backfires, he loves red weddings, so she changes tactics and 'confesses' a food fetish (she doesn't actually have one) trying to gross him out with the description of a polish sausage with sauerkraut and relish in her lady parts. Obviously adhering to reality and or proper hygene is not a thing in my story). Things escalate and she ends up using a celery bunch and ranch dressing in ways not exactly intended.

I would appreciate any thoughts. I realize without reading all chapters it would be difficult for anyone to give me a focused opinion, but just based on my description I'd be grateful for any thoughts.

Thanks so much,

EF

my stories

In my opinion. It can be nothing but a tragedy.
A woman, I'm assuming an intelligent human being. Has decided to find a missing friend she must work as a prostitute.
That is a tragedy right there.
The total humiliation of having to do it in the first place for the good of her friend.
It is a tragedy and to have to succumb to Non consensual sex acts is not going to be a light hearted comedy.
Intelligent, educated, respected women. Do not willingly enter into these situations.
The story could only work where you dig into her total loss of self respect. She will hate herself and the situations she is pushed into. It will never be erotic, or titillating. It will be a horror fest for the woman..

Cagivagurl

 

[SimonDoom]

No kink shaming, and anything with even a hint of reluctance, dubious, or non consent will be in the noncon / reluctance category. Probably no chapters will be in the bdsm category.

From chapter 4 on the MC has a choice to not participate in any of the acts, but in order to achieve her goal she must go through with it, so that's the element of dubious consent. And with each 'line' crossed, her investment increases and as does her motivation to complete the goal.

I'm not super concerned with appealing to everyone, I know that's impossible, and I know the themes I'm interested in aren't always the most popular, for instance I have zero interest in IC/ Taboo.

But my main concern is making the descent / retribution arc work and I feel like I've got really good suggestions so far, and my sense is I should maybe tone down the MCs first escort experience so there's room for the arc.

I'm trying to be constructive, not just critical, but this seems unfocused to me, like there are too many moving parts and you're not yet sure which to focus on or exactly how they relate to each other.

Noncon and BDSM are two different things. If she chooses to do things that might seem "degrading" to many people, but she does so willingly, then it's not noncon. It's probably fetish or BDSM.

If she chooses to do something because she is trying to achieve a goal, I wouldn't call that noncon, although it might depend on how the relationship with the missing friend is presented.

There's nothing inherently noncon about submitting to "degrading" acts, like corporal punishment, or bondage, or being the subject of group sex, or choosing to be an escort, etc. All of that can be consensual fetish or BDSM or group sex.

It might be more non-connish if somebody involved in the organization responsible for taking her friend knows what she wants, and offers to help her and her friend only if she submits to a succession of acts. Then it seems more like blackmail, which is an aspect of noncon.

 

[EroticFriction]

Cagivagurl - yes there is an element of tragedy in any descent arc.

To each their own, I say, where fiction is concerned.

I'll use fictional violence as an example. I despise violence in RL and avoid it at all costs. Some works of fiction with violent content are definitely not on my read or watch list, others are. I don't do torture porn like Saw, but Raging Bull, American Psycho, Game of Thrones (and so many others) are arguably just as violent if not more, and I enjoyed watching. I find many works of fiction examining violence, even extreme violence to work, because I'm not taking them as a literal or documentary fact. They are a playground of ideas and emotions.

I personally read with that perspective here on Literotica. Some thing's I've done and will do in RL, many not.

Simondoom - I appreciate your comments, and yes being all over the place is a risk but I think I'll be able to manage it, one of the reasons i've started this thread and appreciate your words of caution. Some of my favorite stories on this site do not adhere fully to the category they are in, and also this is a series: each single chapter has a category and I (mostly) stick to it. The group sex chapter has exhibitionism and masturbation, but also group sex, which I think is the top level indicator.

It's likely that a non-con / reluctance chapter will have group sex or bondage or both, for example, but unless the reluctance is super light I won't move it out of that category, I don't think it's appropriate.

I'm stuck with non-con/reluctance because there's not specifically a dub-con or reluctance one, but that's ok. Yes she consents, but her choices aren't great: either go through with it or abandon her best friend to her fate. If it weren't for that she would not put herself in these situations. It's similar in some ways to blackmail, but it's more like MC's loyalty to her friend is the blackmailer.

Also, I personally don't find corporal punishment, bondage, or group sex specifically 'degrading'. Having participated in all of those, I have never felt degraded, though I imagine some others with different backgrounds and perspectives have and do. I've worked in the sex industry on a few occasions and have been friends with escorts, prostitutes and porn performers / stars. Some are tragedies, others are not, though they certainly have been subjected to more 'judgement' by civilians than most other career people I know.

To me the fascination is the reluctance, the shedding of 'innocence' along with inhibition. I've not been that inhibited in my life, but I find it fascinating in others, and I guess that's one of the reasons I enjoy fictional reluctance.

 

[Devinter]

I'm curious about what other authors feel about the effect a morally descending character can have on the sex in a series.

My "Dawn of Corruption" series starts with a super innocent Christian girl that feels guilty even thinking about masturbating and end up with the same character straight up swallowing a man's urine with glee. It's all about managing expectations. Her fall from grace was made clear from the beginning; with the title, the story blurb, the tags, with foreshadowing, and so on. That meant I attracted the correct kind of reader for this sort of story right from the start. That's the important part, in my opinion. If your readers cannot see it coming, and you're all of a sudden appealing to a completely different group of people several chapters in, you will be met with mixed results.

It's a genre where planning and pacing are particularly important. Otherwise what often happens is that the depravity outruns the plot, the protagonist gets to "raving sex fiend" long before the plot reaches any kind of resolution, and then the author has to go to more and more ridiculous lengths to maintain that downwards trajectory, or else the sex gets kind of same-y.

This is 100% true, and it was my number one problem to overcome with the series I mentioned above. I wrote ten whole chapters and honestly the same story could have been told in half as many words. So I think this is wonderful advice. Listen to the wise Bramble, @EroticFriction !

The one time you can sort of get away with same-y is if you hone in on one particular and niche fetish. People seem to care a bit less about same-y stuff if it's their number one fetish that they cannot commonly find within other stories. But that will also mean you get a lower overall number of readers, of course. That's something you must keep in mind when catering to a niche.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Since this is to be a longish series I figured I could get away with a bit more of a spectrum by sticking to specific ones per chapter and giving an authors note describing the specific content contained in each, plus I'm meticulous about the tags. Also chapters have different categories, that's something I see a lot on lit series

You can do this, but be aware that a lot of readers don't switch categories easily. From what I can tell, there are a lot of readers who follow the New Stories page for one or two favourite categories, check out stuff in that list, and don't go exploring much outside that.

If you post, say, chapters 1-3 in Erotic Couplings, and then 4-5 in NC/R, people who follow the Erotic Couplings new stories page won't see chapters 4-5 post. (And even if they do check your author page and notice that you have two more chapters in NC/R, a lot of EC regulars may not want to read NC.)

Meanwhile, people who follow NC/R will only see chapters 4 and 5, and they may not feel like going back to read three chapters in EC to get the backstory.

The other way to do this, which is what I'd usually recommend, is to figure out what single category fits best to the story as a whole and then post all chapters in that category. If you have individual chapters that don't fit well with that categorisation, you can include a note at the beginning to let people know what's going on.

For instance, I have a series in Lesbian Sex with this note at the beginning of Chapter 1:

This is a F-F story, with BDSM elements, although it takes a while to get there. Chapter 1 is introduction only; there's no sex until Chapter 2.

 

[EroticFriction]

Thanks Devinter - I agree for sure, and am going to make some adjustments to my chapter before posting. I thought about it after reading everything and decided the buildup is much more important than the food gag, so it's a no brainer.

Since I'm writing what I like mostly, and just hoping some people will enjoy the read, I'm not going to sweat too much about low views or even low scores.

I admit I want it to be popular, but I'm also realistic and don't think in the long run that my story caters to the widest audience, but hopefully will attract some readers across category boundaries.

BTW your AH gift story is a work of pure genius. I'm not sure I've ever read anything quite as good and terrible at the same time.

 

[EroticFriction]

Yes Bramble, something I've thought about for sure. I've already included an author's note in the first two chapters, and planned on doing more. Perhaps a recap of the basic plot for those that aren't interested in jumping categories could work, and I just stick to NC/R with disclaimers for some chapters since I think having that theme in any other categories is inappropriate. I've already posted three chapters so it'd be a thing going forward I guess? Something to think about anyway.

I'm probably making a 1000 mistakes in my first postings, but that's ok. Have much to learn, and learning from mistakes is tends to be how I roll.

Also not attached to a high view or ratings count, if just a few people like the story I'm happy for the time being. I'd love for it to be super popular and beloved, but I'm not kidding myself (most of the time).

 

[stonedinstilletos]

I have a love hate thing with these types of stories. I love them, but sometimes hate how heavy they can become. But I think it’s worth trying and seeing how it goes.

 

[SimonDoom]

I usually don't have my characters descend into further and further debauchery. It makes me uncomfortable to write that. Why not just have lots of sex without moral and emotional messes? Or is that unrealistic? I don't know.

For some, the concept of being degraded or debauched is itself erotic. It's a pleasurable fantasy. Some actually like to experience it; others just like to fantasize about it. Some people find it a turn on to fantasize about orchestrating another person's debauchery.

Some people want to be degraded because that's all they've known in life. But not all people who like this fantasy are like that. There are strong, intelligent, successful people who fantasize about the concept of an alternate life.

I think there's something of a divide among authors in this forum on this subject. Some don't "get" the power of taboo as an erotic stimulant; others (like me) eat it up like candy. Whether it's incest, or noncon, or exhibitionism, or BDSM, I find the concepts of flouting conventions, abandoning normal moral scruples, being degraded, and submitting to others erotically interesting and powerful. I'm sure I could psycho-analyze my life history and come up with some reasons why I like stories that dive into these themes. I've just accepted the fact that I like them.

 

[AchtungNight]

Well, I'm not into it personally, but you do you. :shudders: