Changing nature of a story...

[BiscuitHammer]

Happy Monday, Litters.

That didn't sound right. Moving on...

Stories on here are about erotica/sex/smut, whatever you want to call it. Said e/s/s is divided into arching concepts for easy browsing by readers. Lots of readers are looking simply for stroke/wank material that is written well enough that they can get their rocks off. And that's fine.

My stories are full of erotica. But in the case of the Alexaverse specifically, I've noticed that the erotic nature is now just an aspect of the narrative. That universe has gotten to the place where the other aspects of the characters' lives and existence are as important and take up as much room as the sex does.

Which also explains why my chapters have climbed in size from averaging ten thousand words to forty thousand... :/

I'm 25 chapters in to Mike & Karen, and maybe a third done, near as I can tell. And we've had threads on here that have talked about optimal story/series length. I clearly can't tell a short story to save my life.

But the Alexaverse is my flagship series and I get a lot of feedback on it all. If people are still reading my nonsense after all this time, then they enjoy it and are invested in the characters and their outcomes.

Feedback indicates that they're wanting to read what happens next in so-and-so's arc or their life. They enjoy the sex, yes, but it's an aspect now, not the driver.

To me, this feels like it was a natural evolution, not that things got away from me or spun out of control. Heaven knows, I'm invested in the outcomes for my characters, and I kinda smile and get excited when I think of what to do with them next.

Yes, I know how everything turns out (Mike and Karen go on to get married, but my readers already know that, and Alex and Alexa are going to get married in Versailles), but there's so much creamy middle left to write out, and it makes me happy to do it.

Mike and Karen are scheduled in a summer 1987 flashback to go to a prestigious physics conference in Lucerne. Physics talk everywhere! Talk about sexy and smutty, right? I mean, it will be, but their lives beyond sex are explored, their ongoing dynamic that changes them from frenemies to desperately in love one day.

Where was I going with this?

Right. I guess I'm mostly looking at the series writers, or long chapter writers with this query, but have you noticed that non-sex aspects have become as important to any of your stories as the sex is? They don't overwhelm it, but that they're a necessary part of what happens, is what I mean.

By design, by natural evolution, or just by accident, which of your stories is now a multi-faceted gem where sex is just another shining surface people love?

 

[KeithD]

I went the other way in writing for Literotica. I had long written stories emphasizing plot, characterization, setting, and theme and when sex was crucial to the story, dealing with it by closing the door to the graphic part of it. Writing for Literotica freed me to leave the door open and become very graphic with the sex. That element was raised in priority, but not value. I still am trying to give the other elements their due. This isn't necessarily done with more words and much beefier chapter lengths, but, rather, with better choice of words and working at getting the idea across by using the reader's ability to discern and extrapolate rather then getting out the feeding spoon.

 

[SamScribble]

I don't write long stories. Well, I do. But I don't post them here at Lit.

If you want to write 80k, 100k, 120k words, in which sex is just part of the tapestry, I think that's perfectly valid. But I don't think that's what the majority of Lit readers come here to read. So don't expect battalions of readers, and don't expect scores as high as an elephant's eye.

 

[Agiel]

I don't write long stories. Well, I do. But I don't post them here at Lit.

If you want to write 80k, 100k, 120k words, in which sex is just part of the tapestry, I think that's perfectly valid. But I don't think that's what the majority of Lit readers come here to read. So don't expect battalions of readers, and don't expect scores as high as an elephant's eye.

I think Sam Scribble has hit the nail on the head. If you want to write stories of 80k/100k stories or a series running to 200k words then go ahead and you’ll get satisfaction yourself and you will get some readers.

I wouldn’t say 99% of the readers on this site want less words in the stories and series they want to read but I would certainly think it’s in the high 90’s. But it’s up to the writer. We are here to satisfy our own desires and ambitions and if anyone wants to write their own version of War and Peace then let them do it.

 

[ElectricBlue]

By design, by natural evolution, or just by accident, which of your stories is now a multi-faceted gem where sex is just another shining surface people love?

All of my stories have an erotic core, and I think my weave of sex against the weft of plot is what keeps my followers following.

 

[windar]

I don't write long stories. Well, I do. But I don't post them here at Lit.

If you want to write 80k, 100k, 120k words, in which sex is just part of the tapestry, I think that's perfectly valid. But I don't think that's what the majority of Lit readers come here to read. So don't expect battalions of readers, and don't expect scores as high as an elephant's eye.

I have no idea what the average Lit reader wants, nor do I care. Like you I don't post here and I write long stories in which sex certainly appears, but isn't the main point. Sex should be like a sauce on a main course-never overwhelming the dish, but adding some flavor. I'm not a prude, but eroticism is not just depicting sex; in fact sometimes not depicting it can be as erotic or more.

 

[lovecraft68]

Siblings with Benefits. Yes, a lot of brother/sister sex, especially because back then I was new and felt every chapter needed it, so maybe too much sex in the opinion of myself as a writer today vs 12 years ago

But the story is what drives it. Its not a pleasant one. It ouches on addiction, abuse, mental illness, features a lot of violence and gut wrenching aspects of addiction. Ultimately there is an HEA but its like a tour of Dante's Inferno to get there. "Dark Romance" with the stress on the word dark was how one reader put it.

Grammar is not great, done in first person which IU ditched several years ago, dragged out a bit in spots, but there are sections of it that to this day I feel are my most powerful work. A lot of it was written using the angst, despair, trauma of my, and many people I grew up with, we all experiences so a lot of catharsis went into it. In some ways I bared what was left of my soul, and that is a dark tattered piece of material.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Sex should be like a sauce on a main course-never overwhelming the dish, but adding some flavor.

That depends on the point of the story.

In my series, sex IS the main point, as it's the dynamics of their interactions with others with sex which drives the emotions. And seeing that in 3D porn brings the reader into feeling those emotions. (At least, that's what this amateur writer is aiming to achieve.)

 

[windar]

And seeing that in 3D porn brings the reader into feeling those emotions.

How do you write in 3D? Does the reader need special glasses?

 

[Lifestyle66]

How do you write in 3D? Does the reader need special glasses?

You got me!

Let's change that to 2D-plus. (Or 1-D plus a LOT of descriptions.)

But, then again, I could write about his 10-inch long, 6-inch circumference cock which puts it into 3D.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Right. I guess I'm mostly looking at the series writers, or long chapter writers with this query, but have you noticed that non-sex aspects have become as important to any of your stories as the sex is? They don't overwhelm it, but that they're a necessary part of what happens, is what I mean.

By design, by natural evolution, or just by accident, which of your stories is now a multi-faceted gem where sex is just another shining surface people love?

I don't know about "gem" but most of my stories have other aspects at least as significant as the sex. Maybe "Loss Function" and "Magnum Innominandum" especially (not that there's much sex at all in the latter!)

 

[SimonDoom]

I can see how this is an issue if you choose to write a very long, multi-chapter series, because after a certain point it's hard to keep ratcheting up the sexual activity. You have to introduce something else, something new, to hold interest.

It's not an issue for me, because I don't write long, multi-chapter series. I come up with an erotic idea that interests me, and I write a story around that idea, and when the erotic thing, whatever it is, is fulfilled, I end the story and move on to the next one. I don't envision ever changing this pattern.

I'm curious why authors are attracted to continuing long series if they've played out the string, erotically speaking. If I were in that position I'd be itching to move on to something new as opposed to trying to find new plots with old characters. But that's just me.

 

[Smuttyandfun]

From my readers comments, lately they've been enjoying longer, more in depth stories, and the sex isn't the main thing, although there's always some to keep their interest.

Obviously this longer type of story requires me to provide more background and insight into the characters thoughts and motivations, which I think is what appeals to the average reader. A few that come to mind are: That Little Spark, The Dare, Mating Season, Three Little Words, My Plus On, A Summer Affair, A Little too Close for Comfort, Accidental Valentine and I'm Dreaming of a Hot Christmas.

I've done some chapter stories that the readers seem to like too, but the longer ones I'm doing lately are getting more positive feedback. I'll probably still do the occasional multi-chapter story, especially if a story gets a little too long to be read in one sitting.

 

[windar]

I can see how this is an issue if you choose to write a very long, multi-chapter series, because after a certain point it's hard to keep ratcheting up the sexual activity. You have to introduce something else, something new, to hold interest.

It's not an issue for me, because I don't write long, multi-chapter series. I come up with an erotic idea that interests me, and I write a story around that idea, and when the erotic thing, whatever it is, is fulfilled, I end the story and move on to the next one. I don't envision ever changing this pattern.

I'm curious why authors are attracted to continuing long series if they've played out the string, erotically speaking. If I were in that position I'd be itching to move on to something new as opposed to trying to find new plots with old characters. But that's just me.

Mostly I write what you might call "adventure/peril stories". The climax of the story is not generally sex (though when there is sex, it usually has its climax) but some resolution of the plot. I write in chapters because the viewpoint often shifts and the reader can follow that more easily if there are chapter breaks. Also, I often write with a co-author and we break the chapters where we switch authors.

As I've mentioned before, in many genres, the reader wants to see the same old characters in new situations, whether it's Hercule Poiroit, James Bond, Inspector Wallander, Kinsey Millhone or whomever. And of course that's the basis of most television series, including the most highly regarded. Movies, too, for that matter. So why not erotica? It seems to work for me and my co-author, in that people who read one in a series often go on to read others.

 

[Smuttyandfun]

I know what you mean. I've had some success with some of my chapter stories, too. The characters do tend to go off on different adventures in each new chapter. So, I think both work. Though lately, I have been doing single longer stories, I'll still do some chapters as well. Personally, when I see a story, even if I know it's going to be good, that's 70,000 words or more, I often think I might read it later because it's just so long. But if it were broken up into chapters, I'd probably be more inclined to read a few at a time, till I'd finished the story. Some readers like a long read, others short (like most stroke stories). But I think the readers that leave the most comments, and bother to score, often enjoy something a little longer that they can dig into for a few hours, whether it be a single or a chapter story.

 

[SimonDoom]

Mostly I write what you might call "adventure/peril stories". The climax of the story is not generally sex (though when there is sex, it usually has its climax) but some resolution of the plot. I write in chapters because the viewpoint often shifts and the reader can follow that more easily if there are chapter breaks. Also, I often write with a co-author and we break the chapters where we switch authors.

As I've mentioned before, in many genres, the reader wants to see the same old characters in new situations, whether it's Hercule Poiroit, James Bond, Inspector Wallander, Kinsey Millhone or whomever. And of course that's the basis of most television series, including the most highly regarded. Movies, too, for that matter. So why not erotica? It seems to work for me and my co-author, in that people who read one in a series often go on to read others.

You're right; there's definitely an audience for that. It seems like a lot of readers want that. And if an author enjoys sticking with the same characters, then they should do so.

This is just my own attitude about erotica. I like to read and write stories where the erotica is the centerpiece. After a while I get bored of the same characters doing the same erotic things. It's more fun for me personally to move on.

 

[Smuttyandfun]

I know I'm enjoying doing a one and done more, too. Probably why I'm not doing as many chapter stories.

 

[JakBird]

My take, based on observing the commercial market, is that an author is best served by establishing a reader base through short stories to build a reputation for quality. Then a transition to longer length stories is possible given there is an existing audience willing to invest the time in a known quantity, the author's name (brand).

Look at the magazine/book rack at a Walmart. Not many books, but for most of the offerings the author's name is in larger type and more prominent that the book title.

Here on Lit, ask yourself: Are you more inclined to read a full-length novel if already familiar with the author's highly rated shorter stories?

As for chapter at a time stories, I find them to be too much like movie matinee serials. Tune in next week, same bat-time, same bat-channel, for the latest installment...

 

[windar]

My take, based on observing the commercial market, is that an author is best served by establishing a reader base through short stories to build a reputation for quality. Then a transition to longer length stories is possible given there is an existing audience willing to invest the time in a known quantity, the author's name (brand).

Look at the magazine/book rack at a Walmart. Not many books, but for most of the offerings the author's name is in larger type and more prominent that the book title.

Here on Lit, ask yourself: Are you more inclined to read a full-length novel if already familiar with the author's highly rated shorter stories?

As for chapter at a time stories, I find them to be too much like movie matinee serials. Tune in next week, same bat-time, same bat-channel, for the latest installment...

I have published almost exclusively novella length stories. I have found the short ones don't sell much, but that may vary from site to site.

We live in what is considered a Golden Age of television series. Starting with "The Sopranos" and "Breaking Bad" and filling the streaming sites with what are really chapter stories featuring the same characters every week. Often they spin off into their own series, like "Better Call Saul" from "Breaking Bad' and now the return of the Sopranos with AJ, Tony's son. These have been big successes both commercially and critically. That's the kind of things that happen in my stories-a minor character in one can become a major character in another, especially if the readers seem to like them.

 

[KeithD]

My take, based on observing the commercial market, is that an author is best served by establishing a reader base through short stories to build a reputation for quality. Then a transition to longer length stories is possible given there is an existing audience willing to invest the time in a known quantity, the author's name (brand).

Re the commercial market, from decades in that market not only as an author but also working for publishing houses, I don't see it this way. Commercially successful authors in today's market establish that with full-length books. There's little interest by commercial publishing houses or buyers for short stories before full-length books. Authors publishing short stories first don't often get initially published commercially at all, so there's little way they can begin in the commercial realm with short stories.

 

[karaline]

I write series, but although there is a plot, the focus of my stories is sex and the relationships that underpin that sex. They tend to be shorter than novels ranging from 20,000 to 40,000 words. I have one piece that's 80,000 words, and it has a lot of plot (and world building) the focus is still mainly the sex and the relationship.

When I had more time, and i read on this site a lot more than i do, I used to find longer series irritating. I often felt like there was a point the story should have ended and yet the author was pressing on*. That said, there always seemed to be a cheerleading group of fans in the comments who didn't agree with me, so what do I know?

I have one experience when i wanted to end a story and my editor at the time (and a few readers) suggested i carry on, so i tacked on a few more chapters and a bit more plot, and its my least favourite of my stories, in fact i hate it -in part because i feel like it thrashes around like a dying fish on the bank for far too long, and yet it is one of my more popular up loads. Actually the most common complaint i have from readers is 'this finished too early' or 'the ending feels to rushed'. So again, what do I know?


*BiscuitHammer I haven't read your stuff, so this is in no way directed at you personally

 

[Duleigh]

By design, by natural evolution, or just by accident, which of your stories is now a multi-faceted gem where sex is just another shining surface people love?

Stormwatch was a single episode short story that didn't pay attention to either requirement, sex turned out to be the last thing they tried.

The Gate - coming out in Geek Pride 2022 is another one that sex kind of moved to the side, at first it was all in the mind and the words just keep coming out of my keyboard.

We're A Wonderful Wife - this was never intended to be more than a single story for the 2021 Winter Holiday, but I missed the deadline because I was exploring the characters backstory FAR too closely, that one will be coming out one chapter a month until November when the original hits for the contest. I actually learned about Vietnamese food and culture while trying to put a twist on an old Christmas story... I have no idea what my keyboard is plotting.

But conversely, Blindsided By The Blind Guy is nothing but a 2 page stroker about sex between a blind prankster and his goody two shoes girlfriend, but I'm getting praise from several blind readers of Lit that I captured the essence of a blind person perfectly. I guess a lot of it in in our readers perceptions.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

I don't write long stories. Well, I do. But I don't post them here at Lit.

If you want to write 80k, 100k, 120k words, in which sex is just part of the tapestry, I think that's perfectly valid. But I don't think that's what the majority of Lit readers come here to read. So don't expect battalions of readers, and don't expect scores as high as an elephant's eye.

The majority of my stories are long ones., between 52,000 and 176,000 words.

My first submission (2014) to Literotica was placed in Novels and Novellas, and contains approximately 90,000 words. It currently has had over 120,000 views and remains rated between 4.85 and 4.90. Comparing this to the top stories in that category (Varna 4 and The Irishman at the Bar) I think the view count for my first story, as well as subsequent stories posted under the same category aren't too bad. In fact, the only stories I have posted without a red 'H' are the shorter ones that I have submitted.

 

[Emilymcplugger]

Happy Monday, Litters.

That didn't sound right. Moving on...

Stories on here are about erotica/sex/smut, whatever you want to call it. Said e/s/s is divided into arching concepts for easy browsing by readers. Lots of readers are looking simply for stroke/wank material that is written well enough that they can get their rocks off. And that's fine.

My stories are full of erotica. But in the case of the Alexaverse specifically, I've noticed that the erotic nature is now just an aspect of the narrative. That universe has gotten to the place where the other aspects of the characters' lives and existence are as important and take up as much room as the sex does.

Which also explains why my chapters have climbed in size from averaging ten thousand words to forty thousand... :/

I'm 25 chapters in to Mike & Karen, and maybe a third done, near as I can tell. And we've had threads on here that have talked about optimal story/series length. I clearly can't tell a short story to save my life.

But the Alexaverse is my flagship series and I get a lot of feedback on it all. If people are still reading my nonsense after all this time, then they enjoy it and are invested in the characters and their outcomes.

Feedback indicates that they're wanting to read what happens next in so-and-so's arc or their life. They enjoy the sex, yes, but it's an aspect now, not the driver.

To me, this feels like it was a natural evolution, not that things got away from me or spun out of control. Heaven knows, I'm invested in the outcomes for my characters, and I kinda smile and get excited when I think of what to do with them next.

Yes, I know how everything turns out (Mike and Karen go on to get married, but my readers already know that, and Alex and Alexa are going to get married in Versailles), but there's so much creamy middle left to write out, and it makes me happy to do it.

Mike and Karen are scheduled in a summer 1987 flashback to go to a prestigious physics conference in Lucerne. Physics talk everywhere! Talk about sexy and smutty, right? I mean, it will be, but their lives beyond sex are explored, their ongoing dynamic that changes them from frenemies to desperately in love one day.

Where was I going with this?

Right. I guess I'm mostly looking at the series writers, or long chapter writers with this query, but have you noticed that non-sex aspects have become as important to any of your stories as the sex is? They don't overwhelm it, but that they're a necessary part of what happens, is what I mean.

By design, by natural evolution, or just by accident, which of your stories is now a multi-faceted gem where sex is just another shining surface people love?

In my first story I needed to devote time to a big argument between characters and the demise of another.

It might not have had any phwoars, but leaving it out would have felt wrong.

These chapters are 2 of my 3 H’s.

 

[Duleigh]

In my first story I needed to devote time to a big argument between characters and the demise of another.

I am never killing off another major character, I made myself sick when I realized that I just killed someone I care very deeply about even though she is imaginary. I had to write a novella dedicated to her just to work the sorrow out of my soul. Only peripheral characters die in my stories anymore.