Catholic sex abuse -- how did it happen?

[3113]

At the same time, maybe she really did enjoy it. I'm not saying she did, mind you, but I'm also not saying she didn't, because I don't know. I do know that many, many girls and women enjoy having sex, and I do know that many girls and women enjoy being the center of attention. Did all these men get together in a gangbang, or did each one have one day a week with her?

Honestly, Box...that's not even close to funny. I'll take it you were joking or being sarcastic, but please, don't.

Here's why:

Female victims often overlooked in horror stories of clergy abuse

They are Californians with shared histories of violence, abuse and unspeakable betrayal. At age 6, one was sodomized in the church sanctuary by the family priest, then raped again at 8 by a second priest in another state. Another was lured into a sexual relationship at age 16 by one priest, who invited six other priests along for the "fun" over the next four years.

Still another Californian remembers wandering into the rectory at about age 8, only to be raped.

Who are they?

Given recent headlines, with the Catholic Church nationwide struggling with its worst sex scandal, you might easily assume these victims are boys and adolescent males -- altar boys, perhaps, assaulted by pedophiles lurking beneath the collar. They are victims, yes, but they are not boys at all. They are grown women, forced to live with a betrayal many misperceive to be borne almost exclusively by males.

Look again.

"Of the priests we've evaluated, more abuse girls than abuse boys," says Gary Schoener, a Minneapolis psychologist and expert on clergy sexual abuse.

Despite media emphasis over the years on male victims -- boys and men with horrific stories of their own -- Schoener and other experts believe that troubled priests and other clergy are more likely to abuse females, especially adult women. Sometimes their stories trickle out; more often, they do not.

Meanwhile, the number of male victims in a single parish can add up quickly, as one pedophile-priest may have unlimited access for a long period to boys on outings or other male-oriented church activities. From this, big headlines are made. "Everything's always about the altar boys. It's like nothing ever happened to the girls," says Terrie Light of Castro Valley, West Coast regional director of SNAP, Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests (survivorsnetwork.org).

Light was about 8 and attending church in the Oakland diocese when she went to the rectory looking for her mother. She was raped by the priest instead. Now 50, she struggled emotionally for years -- feeling "crazy and weird and defective." There simply were no other stories about women. "When I finally found other (abused) women, I started getting better," she said. "I found out my story wasn't all that uncommon."

There are many explanations for the widespread misperception about victims of clergy abuse, though one of the most disturbing is this: the old "she asked for it." She must have seduced him. She made him sin. The girl, however young, is cast as temptress. Such was the logic played over and over to a Los Angeles woman, who became pregnant years ago after her priest and six other priests routinely had intercourse with her beginning when she was 16.

"As Catholics, we see priests even above angels," said Rita Milla, who is now married with a second child. "To believe whatever they said had to be the right thing."

After giving birth in the Philippines, where the priest had hidden her away, Milla returned with her child and eventually sued the church. In 1991, the priest publicly apologized for seducing the teenager, but she did not win her lawsuit -- in part, because it was filed too late. She had refused to settle, she said, because she would not agree to silence.

Yet even today, the courts are not always sympathetic to female victims. Boys not only get more media coverage in clergy abuse cases, said Schoener, they also tend to get bigger verdicts. Homophobia, he believes, has been a "very, very powerful force."

"In modern society, homosexual rape is considered a more heinous act," said the psychologist, who is frequently an expert witness.

Ranking victims' worthiness is the worst thing we can do -- look no further than the bickering over the Sept. 11 fund. But overlooking a whole group of victims is right up there. "There are a lot of women (victims) out there who believe they are alone and isolated and 'special' in a bad way," says Light.

They are not, and that is the good news. For both sexes, it is also the bad.

 

[mismused]

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[lovelorn4u69]

Catholicism is the largest church in the world and mathematically speaking, there are more molestations in other religions such as protestant and even moral right southern baptists. The problem is, there isn't a formal head of a baptist or any other secular religion like there is in catholicism. There is currently a scandal in the baptist theological arena, and I dare say, many others will formualte moving forward. The Catholic Church is an organized religion, much more than others throughout the world. No other church has a doctrine that sets policies for all the religious sectors much less 660M to pay out. Least we forget, if you're American you have more than likely sued or been sued. Until the conservative right wing gets their head out of their ass, wherever a person assumes there is money, a suit will follow. No doubt there have been children molested by priests, that is a given. God help those that have been abused. However, those who believe that every priest sleeps with little boys dancing in their head are simply ignorant.

 

[mismused]

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[WRJames]

ILook at it from that point of view. This girl, or any girl, or young boy, may be retarded, or they may have a mensa type IQ, yet their faith overshadows everything in the same way your need, though with questions (some serious, if I remember correctly) from faith in something. Well, to these kids, and even young men and women, or not so young with some women, that faith is just about rock solid until something like this happens, and when it does, it is traumatic and unbelievable, therefore it goes on and on until it nearly destroys them. To go against your priest, and expect others to believe you is like saying something unAmerican, if you get what I mean. Some things you don't say in company, or aloud, and some things you know won't be believed.

I guess my own denomination has such a different world view that it is hard for me to comprehend. I was raised in the fifties and early sixties, when WW 2 was a recent memory, and what had happened to the Germans was still fresh in people's minds. I had it drummed into me that blind respect authority was dangerous, that you could not be a "good German" and "just follow orders." I was taught that Christ was a rebel, and Christianity is a religion of rebellion, not obedience. Of course, I know what the Catholic church is. We have one right accross the street from our own. About half our members are ex Catholics. Maybe we'll pick up a few more from this fiasco.

 

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[Guest]

Catholicism is the largest church in the world and mathematically speaking, there are more molestations in other religions such as protestant and even moral right southern baptists. The problem is, there isn't a formal head of a baptist or any other secular religion like there is in catholicism. There is currently a scandal in the baptist theological arena, and I dare say, many others will formualte moving forward. The Catholic Church is an organized religion, much more than others throughout the world. No other church has a doctrine that sets policies for all the religious sectors much less 660M to pay out. Least we forget, if you're American you have more than likely sued or been sued. Until the conservative right wing gets their head out of their ass, wherever a person assumes there is money, a suit will follow. No doubt there have been children molested by priests, that is a given. God help those that have been abused. However, those who believe that every priest sleeps with little boys dancing in their head are simply ignorant.

Your figures are inaccurate.



http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/sweetsubsarahh/religions.gif



http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html


Edited to add - Can you provide links to information about molestation in other denominations?

 

[Guest]

Honestly, Box...that's not even close to funny. I'll take it you were joking or being sarcastic, but please, don't.

I didn't know if that was sarcastic or not - hence my post about his comment being revolting.

Honestly, to those of you who claim the child shares blame here - are we so jaded as porn writers that we forget that not every 16 year old girl is sexually experienced, loves multiple partners and craves humiliation?

There are situations where doctors, therapists, psychiatrists, etc., have lost their licenses because they took sexual advantage of their patients.

And those were adult patients.

These are children in the same sort of situation. An adult figure in a position of power (and if deeply religious, an even HIGHER power, as children witness their own parents treating this person with deep respect) is taking advantage of a child.

These abusers have terrific people skills to get things started and they know just what to say to keep it hidden.

I can't believe there is still a debate about the occurrence of this.

 

[WRJames]

Honestly, to those of you who claim the child shares blame here - are we so jaded as porn writers that we forget that not every 16 year old girl is sexually experienced, loves multiple partners and craves humiliation?

Wait -- please! I never meant to suggest that there was any guilt other than on the part of the molesters. I was just sepculating as to what sort of psychic glue could have held this girl for so long -- to quote the recently posted article which I could not find because there were so many hits for "seven priests" and "rape"

Another was lured into a sexual relationship at age 16 by one priest, who invited six other priests along for the "fun" over the next four years.

When I write bondage, or rape, I always give the recipient a nice orgasm to soften the horror -- isn't that part of our rather sleazy craft? But that does not mean that in the real world I in any way believe that this is true, or that the possible "pleasure" of the victim would be any justification.

 

[Recidiva]

Wait -- please! I never meant to suggest that there was any guilt other than on the part of the molesters. I was just sepculating as to what sort of psychic glue could have held this girl for so long -- to quote the recently posted article which I could not find because there were so many hits for "seven priests" and "rape"

When I write bondage, or rape, I always give the recipient a nice orgasm to soften the horror -- isn't that part of our rather sleazy craft? But that does not mean that in the real world I in any way believe that this is true, or that the possible "pleasure" of the victim would be any justification.

I'd rather consider it unglued.

Craft is one thing, reality is entirely another. Or religion wouldn't have a theme of sacrificing innocent blood for about as far back as humanity has existed.

 

[Vermilion]

Well, something is keeping these kids locked into the abusive relationship for very long periods. I can understand with a younger child in a domestic situation how they are trapped. A sixteen year old girl in a non-domestic situation would seem to me to have more options.

Do you know anything about domestic violence or Stockholm Syndrome? It's not impossible that, in with all the elements of shame and fear that 3113 listed, the girl might also be in thrall with her abusers to some extent. Perhaps she felt she deserved the treatment she got and that if she was better behaved, more compliant, then everything would come right.

Us humans are funny things and we can trick ourselves into thinking all sorts of unreal things. I went mildly agrophobic once because i convinced myself that if I went to a supermarket then something horrible would happen (don;t ask, very strange period in my life). I managed to get over it with a few tips from a CBT, but it gave me a bit of an insight into how we could end up being *so* afraid of something that the reasons could get lost and all that was left was the fear.

OK, so those thoughts aren;t the most coherent, but basically what I'm trying to say is that just because someone isn;t a little kid, doesn;t necessarily mean their thinking is going to be rational or adult. In fact some might say that an adolescent has even more mixed up thinking because of the turbulence of adolescence itself.

You just have to look at domestic violence to see that grown adults can become just as trapped in abusive situations as these children we've been talking about, and that doesn;t stop even when they are no longer in a 'domestic situation' with the abuser - the mindset is still there for many years, if not for life. It's why abuse is so terrible, because it keeps on and on going, even when the source of the abuse has been removed.

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[WRJames]

Do you know anything about domestic violence or Stockholm Syndrome?

Well, I know something about them, I suppose. Domestic violence is just that -- in the home. To leave it, the victim has to leave home, leave a relationship. No domestic arrangement is ever completely free of pain or conflict. Part of the commitment of a marriage is to get past those moments of pain -- so it is easy to see how that can be stretched out of all reason to become abusive. As for the Stockholm Syndrome -- in its primitive form the victim is a physical prisoner.

Now, I suppose that either of these examples could be extended to apply to the priests -- the church relationship replacing the domestic one, or psychological imprisonment replacing the raw physical bondage.

 

[Recidiva]

Well, I know something about them, I suppose. Domestic violence is just that -- in the home. To leave it, the victim has to leave home, leave a relationship. No domestic arrangement is ever completely free of pain or conflict. Part of the commitment of a marriage is to get past those moments of pain -- so it is easy to see how that can be stretched out of all reason to become abusive. As for the Stockholm Syndrome -- in its primitive form the victim is a physical prisoner.

Now, I suppose that either of these examples could be extended to apply to the priests -- the church relationship replacing the domestic one, or psychological imprisonment replacing the raw physical bondage.

Another element you are missing is that a person has to have some sense of trust that someone can help them.

PTSD has as part of the symptoms, the idea that nobody can help them, will help them, or you're putting someone else in danger if you ask for help from them.

If you have no trust in your environment, there's no reason to believe things will get better or you have options.

 

[rgraham666]

Another element you are missing is that a person has to have some sense of trust that someone can help them.

PTSD has as part of the symptoms, the idea that nobody can help them, will help them, or you're putting someone else in danger if you ask for help from them.

If you have no trust in your environment, there's no reason to believe things will get better or you have options.

Been there, done that.

Not fun.

 

[WRJames]

Another element you are missing is that a person has to have some sense of trust that someone can help them.

PTSD has as part of the symptoms, the idea that nobody can help them, will help them, or you're putting someone else in danger if you ask for help from them.

If you have no trust in your environment, there's no reason to believe things will get better or you have options.

A very interesting insight. And certainly Vermilion's link is a portal into the heart of darkness.

 

[Boxlicker101]

This is what I said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
At the same time, maybe she really did enjoy it. I'm not saying she did, mind you, but I'm also not saying she didn't, because I don't know. I do know that many, many girls and women enjoy having sex, and I do know that many girls and women enjoy being the center of attention. Did all these men get together in a gangbang, or did each one have one day a week with her?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3113
Honestly, Box...that's not even close to funny. I'll take it you were joking or being sarcastic, but please, don't.

I didn't know if that was sarcastic or not - hence my post about his comment being revolting.

Honestly, to those of you who claim the child shares blame here - are we so jaded as porn writers that we forget that not every 16 year old girl is sexually experienced, loves multiple partners and craves humiliation?

There are situations where doctors, therapists, psychiatrists, etc., have lost their licenses because they took sexual advantage of their patients.

And those were adult patients.

These are children in the same sort of situation. An adult figure in a position of power (and if deeply religious, an even HIGHER power, as children witness their own parents treating this person with deep respect) is taking advantage of a child.

These abusers have terrific people skills to get things started and they know just what to say to keep it hidden.

I can't believe there is still a debate about the occurrence of this.

It was not meant to be sarcasric, it was just a suggestion, Devil's Advocate-like, that the girl might have actually been a willing participant. There are 16 year girls, you know, who enjoy sex, especially with a person of authority. The part about gangbanging or taking turns was a bit over the top, but the question still remains. Was she a willing and eager participant, or were the priests taking advantage of her youth and naivete?

I may write a story based on this thread, with a name something like "If it's Tuesday, it must be Father Jones". The girl will have to be 18, of course, and cum several times, like the women do in almost all my stories.