Category question - incest

[intim8]

I have a quandary. I'm nearly finished with a novella length story, 30-40K words, possibly over that. It has some fairly intense incest scenes in it, but that is not the main draw of the story. It's more of a straight drama, dark and with some mystery and threat in it.

The incest is just one of many elements, and not the payoff, though the scenes are graphic and fully fleshed out. One involving the MC and from his POV, others witnessed by him. And they're treated as a bad thing (to the MC).

So, would the I/T readers receive that well? Both the length and the lack of emphasis and negative portrayal of incest (even if those scenes are kinda hot, IIDSSM)?

Would the Novels and Novellas readers squick too much over it?

I'd actually prefer N&N, it's a much better fit despite the prospect of more views and feedback in I/T. But I know incest is considred one of those "trump" categories, so I'm worried about crossing a line that I don't know for sure where it is.

I haven't read much in N&N, so I'm not very familiar with it and its boundaries.

EDIT: I do NOT want to do it as a series. I just don't think it would work that way.

 

[Areala-chan]

N&N is kind of an "anything goes" category as far as really long stories go. If your story is that long, and incest is not the focus or the intended "kink", then you can probably get away with posting it into Novels and Novellas, especially if it's tagged appropriately so people who are searching for stories with that kind of content can find it.

Incest is a trump category only in the sense that if your main focus is that sort of relationship, you want it there as opposed to other categories where it might otherwise go. "Fucking Mom in the Ass" goes in I/T, not Anal. That sort of thing.

 

[AchtungNight]

I’ve read plenty of incest in N&N.

 

[intim8]

N&N is kind of an "anything goes" category as far as really long stories go.

That's what I suspcted, but I thought better to ask. Thanks.

I’ve read plenty of incest in N&N.

Well, looks like there's going to be one more, once I finish it. I'm on the third act of the rough draft, and I actually know how a story is going to end, for once.

And yes, I'm going to make sure it is tagged, and have a preamble warning.

 

[ElectricBlue]

That's what I suspcted, but I thought better to ask. Thanks.


Well, looks like there's going to be one more, once I finish it. I'm on the third act of the rough draft, and I actually know how a story is going to end, for once.

And yes, I'm going to make sure it is tagged, and have a preamble warning.

Add a Note to the Editor too, saying that incest is a sub-theme but not the only major erotic theme, and she'll probably put it in your chosen category, with an editor's note "this story contains incest themes."

 

[RejectReality]

Novels and Novellas is a grab bag, much like EC. The readers never know what they're going to get, and they're used to that. There aren't many of them, but they seem reasonably tolerant. An incest warning probably isn't a bad idea, though. Laurel will sometimes add them herself if she thinks it's necessary. ( N&N is one of the categories where she softened the hardline stance that came into force regarding Incest and Non-con outside those categories a couple years back. An up-front warning was often the compromise. )

If it's not the point of the story, and not where it ends up, it's likely to perform poorly in Incest. You'd get more eyes on it, but is it worth it if the majority of those eyes don't finish it? One could argue that with the vast disparity in readership size, even capturing the few who aren't incest-or-nothing readers might generate more readers overall, though. Your score would probably still be the pits, and there's a fair chance you'll get some less-than-pleasant commentary, but I think there's a fair chance you'll stumble across at least as many amicable readers in Incest as you would in N&N.

Could be bad for you if you ever decide to write something that's absolutely Incest, though. If the category readers remember your name and remember being disappointed by not enough focus on family fucking in this one, they could very well skip the next one without giving it a chance.

 

[intim8]

If it's not the point of the story, and not where it ends up, it's likely to perform poorly in Incest.

That's what I figured. It's worse than just not the focus, it's treated as a negative thing.

MC and his fraternal twin sister are drawn into a neighbor's sex cult, where, with the help of surreptitiously drugged drinks, their inhibitions are gradually broken down to the point where they are in full blown orgies with the family and other neighbors.

The cult family participates in these, mixing and matching freely. MC and his sister get it on, and he cums inside her. Even MC's parents get drawn in.

MC's girlfriend, who he doesn't involve in this till the end, helps him escape (via a naked foot chase through the woods at night), expose the drugs and blackmail, and rescue his family.

 

[TheLobster]

I suggest you:

• put it in N&N
• slap a warning that it contains incest
• make it clear said incest is portrayed in a realistic (i.e., disparaging) manner

so that you set the expectations straight among both the Yay and Nay sides of the I/T divide. I’m not aware of any widely used tag that’d be tantamount to “it’s incest but ewwww,” so a note is probably your best option.

 

[Voboy]

"Fucking Mom in the Ass" goes in I/T, not Anal. That sort of thing.

Fucking dad in the ass... what trumps? Anal, I/T, or GM?

Hmmm.

 

[lovecraft68]

Put it in incest-odds are the site may put it there anyway

Not all taboo readers are up for something a bit darker, but some are. There's some high scoring stories in the category that have an edge to them and more substance than "fucking my mommy's big tits in the back seat."

Something I've noticed over time is that in threads about the topic of I/T I rarely get any response to my advice or take on the category as a whole.

Considering my track record in the category, you'd think people might be interested in my opinion on it.

 

[lovecraft68]

Fucking dad in the ass... what trumps? Anal, I/T, or GM?

Hmmm.

Let's go all the way, fucking dad in the ass non consensually.

Now we have the big three trump categories in one. It's going to get heat wherever it goes unless you find some rabid Gay family rape fans. So, where does it take the least beating? I'd say I/T NC is a snobby category for a group with a squicky kink. GM might not be too put off, but much smaller readership.

I feel I/T is the trump of the trump categories if for no other reason than the readership isn't too harsh.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Fucking dad in the ass... what trumps? Anal, I/T, or GM?

Hmmm.

Sure as fuck freaks out the folk in Erotic Horror, when you have a chapter doing that! So much so that I added a quick warning to the comments under the previous chapter, to warn off the nervous. That amused me no end.

The funny thing is, that chapter's slowly climbed in score over the years, from my all time lowest of 3.85 to where it is now, up around 4.11, the last time I paid attention. Which means some readers didn't mind.

 

[RejectReality]

That's what I figured. It's worse than just not the focus, it's treated as a negative thing.

MC and his fraternal twin sister are drawn into a neighbor's sex cult, where, with the help of surreptitiously drugged drinks, their inhibitions are gradually broken down to the point where they are in full blown orgies with the family and other neighbors.

The cult family participates in these, mixing and matching freely. MC and his sister get it on, and he cums inside her. Even MC's parents get drawn in.

MC's girlfriend, who he doesn't involve in this till the end, helps him escape (via a naked foot chase through the woods at night), expose the drugs and blackmail, and rescue his family.

That's actually starting to sound more like it belongs in Incest. LOL You said some intense incest scenes, but are we talking about the bulk of the wordcount? If a majority of the wordcount and especially the sex scenes are all incest, you may have a more difficult time convincing Laurel to put it in N&N.

I still don't think it's going to do great in Incest, because it goes against the readership's preference for fantasy fun, but if the majority of the sex scenes and wordcount are all family fucking, that's kind of where it belongs anyway. If most of the sex is category appropriate, even if not preferred, you're absolutely going to find more amicable readers in Incest. They may be outnumbered by the people who don't like it, but I think they're going to outnumber the number of readers you would get in N&N by a large margin.

I think the score will still be "meh" at best, but you're looking at a fairly significant vote total if most of the sex is category appropriate. Certainly multiples of what you would get in N&N. Same for favorites & comments, though the latter may include some negative feedback. A majority of the sex fitting the category ( especially if you could mostly read the scenes outside the context of the story and not get the "incest is wrong" vibe during the actual sex. ) aren't going to hurt future offerings either.

And then there's LCs endorsement of the category for the story, which should be given careful consideration. He's written some dark stuff there. Granted, he has a much larger fanbase there, but he kicked off that rise with a pretty dark story.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

The standard reply to such questions is Tex Tall Tales’ time-tested guide, Love Your Readers.

 

[intim8]

Considering my track record in the category, you'd think people might be interested in my opinion on it.

I would, but it's not an incest story. It's a story that has incest in it. It's not a fit for the category, and not likely to be appealing to those looking for it.

Out of 30-40k words, there's one and a half incest scenes midway through it.And they're used as the line that, once crossed, convinces the MC that what is going on is really bad.

My dilemma was whether it would have to go there because of it. From the other answers, it looks like not.

 

[alohadave]

My dilemma was whether it would have to go there because of it. From the other answers, it looks like not.

Ultimately, it's going to depend on what Laurel thinks. Put a note in the Admin Note field when you submit it making your case.

She may just put a disclaimer at the top of the story, she may put it in I/T.

 

[Priscilla_June]

The standard reply to such questions is Tex Tall Tales’ time-tested guide, Love Your Readers.

This. Incest is a trump category.

 

[lovecraft68]

I would, but it's not an incest story. It's a story that has incest in it. It's not a fit for the category, and not likely to be appealing to those looking for it.

Out of 30-40k words, there's one and a half incest scenes midway through it.And they're used as the line that, once crossed, convinces the MC that what is going on is really bad.

My dilemma was whether it would have to go there because of it. From the other answers, it looks like not.

If it had a bit of incest, I'd agree. But you said there is quite a bit, so from a kink perspective it is an incest story

Your choice is take it to another category and get a beating for having incest, or put it in incest, and get a good reaction for that aspect and other readers will buy into the actual story as well.

I've done this in the past, told a 39 chapter dark romance with aspects of drug addiction, mental illness, abuse, Satanism and BDSM style sex, a 20 year journey of a brother and sister who also have sex with others during the series, but always back to each other.

Your story, your decision, but I'd still go in I/T.

 

[ElectricBlue]

This. Incest is a trump category.

No, it's not.

There are plenty of stories where incest isn't the major theme, and they're in other categories. I've got two long pieces with incest content, neither of which are in I&T. I asked Laurel to put them in the categories I wanted, and said why, and she put them there, with an Editor's Note at the top, "This story contains incest themes."

Incest content doesn't automatically go behind the fence. It depends what else is in the story.

 

[ElectricBlue]

.My dilemma was whether it would have to go there because of it. From the other answers, it looks like not.

Correct. Submit it in your preferred category, add a Note to the Editor saying what you've just said, and Laurel might add a note - but if the scene is very short but a key plot point, she might not. It doesn't sound like incest is the main theme of the story at all, not even a sub-theme.

 

[Priscilla_June]

No, it's not.

There are plenty of stories where incest isn't the major theme, and they're in other categories. I've got two long pieces with incest content, neither of which are in I&T. I asked Laurel to put them in the categories I wanted, and said why, and she put them there, with an Editor's Note at the top, "This story contains incest themes."

Incest content doesn't automatically go behind the fence. It depends what else is in the story.

Well in the context of my reply given TxTallTale’s guide it is.

To quote it directly: “Number one 'trump' category? Incest”

 

[ElectricBlue]

Well in the context of my reply given TxTallTale’s guide it is.

To quote it directly: “Number one 'trump' category? Incest”

Fine, but it's no longer true, and hasn't been for several years. Advice given to new writers with the old question should reflect 2024, not an old essay - which I agree is mostly but not completely good advice.