capital punishment?

[silverwhisper]

do you support capital punishment? why or why not?

ed

 

[EJFan]

i support captial punishment fervently... and unlike most death penalty advocates, i'm not only aware of but i actually UNDERSTAND the opposition to it.

for me, it all boils down to justice. no more, no less.

 

[silverwhisper]

you strike me as someone who's had this particular conversation on forums before, EJ. :>

ed

 

[EJFan]

had it countless times IRL... can't recall any web discussions though.

 

[Epona's Chylde]

I support the concept but not in its current structure.

I believe that capital punishment should be reserved only for truly, truly sick murderers who are too dangerous to ever be put back into society again.(Think gacy, bundy, etc).

I also believe that the evidence should be 100% certain before implementing such a penalty.

Working in the jail, I meet MANY, many murderers and suprisingly enough they are not all "bad people." I've met a ton of murderers who have no previous criminal history of any sort. And then one day someone they knew just pushed them too far and they killed them. I don't think those people should be put to death (although I do think they should be punished with a lot of jail time).

We have one inmate right now, a female, 20yrs old..in jail for killing her father. She's about 5ft6, 130lbs...she bashed his brain in with a <a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=22&k=baseball%20bat" onmouseover="window.status='baseball bat'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">baseball bat</a>! No previous history or violence, mental illness, or criminal activity.

The story is that he had been brutally raping her for years and years and she just snapped one day. Can you imagine how angry you have to be to kill someone twice your size with a baseball bat?

There's also several inmates in my jail for killing an adulterous lover,which of course is the wrong way to handle infidelity, but I can wrap my mind around how such an act would drive an otherwise good person to do something terrible.

 

[Eilan]

I support the concept but not in its current structure.

I believe that capital punishment should be reserved only for truly, truly sick murderers who are too dangerous to ever be put back into society again.(Think gacy, bundy, etc).

I also believe that the evidence should be 100% certain before implementing such a penalty.

I tend to think along the same lines.

However, how does/should one go about determining what makes someone too dangerous to re-enter society?

The crimes that really get to me are the ones committed against children, probably because in the most recently publicized cases, the children have been close to the ages of some of my kids. I have no problem with letting those monsters die; in fact, I think that the death penalty is a little TOO humane for them.

for me, it all boils down to justice. no more, no less.

I agree. What we have, however, is a "legal" system and not a "justice" system. Unfortunately, there IS a difference.

 

[silverwhisper]

i'm forced reluctantly supporting the death penalty. i say reluctantly, b/c some people i think we're better off sending shuffling off this mortal coil, but for every one of them, there's probably at least as many wrongly-convicted innocents.

ed

 

[bobsgirl]

i'm forced reluctantly supporting the death penalty. i say reluctantly, b/c some people i think we're better off sending shuffling off this mortal coil, but for every one of them, there's probably at least as many wrongly-convicted innocents.

ed

Interesting. This is exactly why I oppose the death penalty.

 

[Ricwilly]

I was for it most of my life untill just a few years ago. Put aside the fact that innocent people have been executed, which is unexcuseable to me, and sure if some one hurt a loved one I would want to kill them personally, also I do believe some people deserve to die and I would have no qualms about killing them myself.
My main objection is that as a civilized society we just shouldn't be killing people. Period.

 

[Cathleen]

I've never supported the death penalty. There have been times I've said someone should be put to death and honestly believe it but those were words spoken out of emotional frustration.

I would like to see our prison system changed a lot. I'd like to put those jailed to work - hard work. There is plenty to do in this country and the cost to keep a prisoner is outrageous. (I won't get into the fact that some prisoners have more luxury items, eg cable tv, gym equipment - I know it's petty but it makes me a tad irrational.)

I don't believe we have a justice system, we have a legal system, and it is fraught with problems, loop holes and backdoors. It is a poor system but I don't have answers or near enough knowledge to support my thoughts in detail.

I just don't feel qualified to decide if someone should live or die.

 

[Epona's Chylde]

I as well get frustrated by all the luxuries they get.

There have been times when I have turned the tv's off in my pods due to excessive noise only to hear an inmate complain that they "are not getting treated like a human being." WTF???

They have cable tv, basketball courts, free medical care (which costs a FORTUNE for some of these very ill inmates), not to mention they get to a chance to buy soda an ice cream every day and we get in trouble for so much as saying "damn" in front of them! Its ridiculous.

Perhaps they should see what jails in some other countries are like!

 

[Epona's Chylde]

Did anyone read about Chelsea Richardson? The 21yr old girl who got the death penalty because she and her b/f hired a couple to murder the b/f's parents?

I knew Chelsea (have worked with her daily for several months). Chelsea got the death penalty for going along with her b/fs idea to kill his parents. The actual murderers did NOT get the death penalty.They plea bargained out. I don't know about the b/f...I'm no sure if he's been sentenced yet or not.

I also know the female murderer (susan toledano). Both Susan and Chelsea act like totally normal, *young* people. You would just never guess they were involved in murder...

Anyway, sort of off topic but I just think it illustrates a flaw in the system.

 

[HornyProf]

I am opposed

The facts, as I understand it, is that there is no good reason to think that Capital Punishment is a better deterent than life in prison without parole. It is even more clear that when the death penalty is legal, innocent people will be executed.

Someone mentioned justice. But even people who believe in purely retributive justice (punishing just for the sake of punishing), don't go arround supporting, e.g. torturing torturers, raping rapists, writing bad checks to people who write bad checks.. . What do you do with someone who kills five people? execute them , revive, execute them again...

Lastly, I think its better for us, for society not to intentionally kill. It used to be that people would go out and picnic with their kids and watch the hanging.. i would hope we have moved beyond.

I am happy that though the US is backward in being one of the few modern democracies with a DP, my state, Iowa, does not have one. there is moral sense in the heartland

 

[oddity83]

Not all killers need to be killed. If a person kills in self defence thats fine by me, if a person that has suffered alot of abuse at the hands of somebody, I can see a little bit of jail time. But long haul bad asses, like serail killers, predatory sex offenders and their kind should be burned with the rest of the trash. As for raping the rapist HELL YES GO FOR IT!!

 

[fille]

I didn't vote in your poll, because none of the options reflect my opinions. I have no problem with the concept of the death penalty. There certainly are, in my opinion, crimes that warrant such punishment. However, in many (perhaps most) states, it is imposed in a way that is unacceptable. Substandard representation for defendants, a profound lack of funding, no DNA testing, prosecutors permitted to run amok, racism in jury composition . . . . to name just a few of the problems. If we can't do it right, we shouldn't do it at all.

I'm not conflicted - I'm quite clear on this.

 

[Cathleen]

Did anyone read about Chelsea Richardson? The 21yr old girl who got the death penalty because she and her b/f hired a couple to murder the b/f's parents?

I knew Chelsea (have worked with her daily for several months). Chelsea got the death penalty for going along with her b/fs idea to kill his parents. The actual murderers did NOT get the death penalty.They plea bargained out. I don't know about the b/f...I'm no sure if he's been sentenced yet or not.

I also know the female murderer (susan toledano). Both Susan and Chelsea act like totally normal, *young* people. You would just never guess they were involved in murder...

Anyway, sort of off topic but I just think it illustrates a flaw in the system.

Absolutely fasinating Epona's. I cannot imagine what you see each day. As for Chelsea's sentence as opposed to the murderers, that is insane in my opinion.

There is so much injustice.

 

[Epona's Chylde]

Crazy huh? It's because in Texas there is no such thing as an "accomplice" or an "accessory" to a crime. If you assist with the crime in any way, you are charged with it.

 

[Cathleen]

Crazy huh? It's because in Texas there is no such thing as an "accomplice" or an "accessory" to a crime. If you assist with the crime in any way, you are charged with it.

I don't know the case at all - you mentioned the others went for the plea, did Chelsea have fair representation?

Forgot to say, welcome to Lit.

 

[Hooper_X]

I would like to support the death penalty solely for heinous crimes against children, non-parental child abductors, serial killers, and the like. However, in death penalty states--particularly in the south--there exists a decided racial bias in the disposition of which convicts have this penalty imposed upon them, even given similar crimes and circumstances. That being the case, and unlikely to change, I can't really support capital punishment as it exists in the United States.

 

[LeahLo519]

I oppose it because I'm a strong believer in the fact that two wrongs don't make a right.

That and there are far worse things than being dead and I used to consider prison one of them until they started spoiling them. Does anyone else remember the flu shot deal? Fucking ridiculous.

 

[Private_Label]

do you support capital punishment? why or why not?

ed

Because there are some people in this world who just have done so much badness that they cannot remain a part of a civilized society, even incarceration is not enough to keep them under control.

I do not think it should be used in every capital case - but there are serial murderers out there, with more evidence than is needed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, and they are not ones that will change if given therapy. - and these individuals should be removed.

Drastic; you betcha! If a wild animal, such as a lion, wolf, dog, turns rabid or a mankiller; in order to protect society you must remove the threat.

 

[Naturist]

I know that there are a lot of really bad people in this world, people who are just evil and are unlikely to ever be anything but evil. "Life in prison without parole" doesn't totally seperate those people from society -- underpaid prison guards have to deal with them every day. Also, any law that creates "life in prison and we mean it" can be changed in the future.

Still, I find the whole notion of the death penalty too eerie to really embrace. There's something about a planned killing, with witnesses, that I find freaky.

It doesn't help my mood when I read the website of the Clark County, Indiana, prosecuting attorney. On the idea of executing an innocent person, he writes, "The inevitability of a mistake should not serve as grounds to eliminate the death penalty any more than the risk of having a fatal wreck should make automobiles illegal."

That seems a classic case of a sentence searching hard for an idea before finally giving up in utter frustration.

 

[HornyHenry]

CP-Yes

Not all killers need to be killed. If a person kills in self defence thats fine by me, if a person that has suffered alot of abuse at the hands of somebody, I can see a little bit of jail time. But long haul bad asses, like serail killers, predatory sex offenders and their kind should be burned with the rest of the trash. As for raping the rapist HELL YES GO FOR IT!!

I believe certain capital offenders should not be permitted to live. The problem is that our court system is filled with dishonest people - judges, lawyers, jurists, witnesses, etc. This is not a casual comment. I know this to be a fact. It is really amazing that anyone ever gets "Justice" in our system. Many do not! When it is clear that a person is guilty of a heinous crime, then he/she should be removed from society. The problem is KNOWING this without a doubt.

 

[Epona's Chylde]

I don't know the case at all - you mentioned the others went for the plea, did Chelsea have fair representation?

Forgot to say, welcome to Lit.

I know her family paid a lot of money for a good lawyer but obviously he wasn't good enough.

Thank you for the welcome~

 

[Naturist]

I believe certain capital offenders should not be permitted to live. The problem is that our court system is filled with dishonest people - judges, lawyers, jurists, witnesses, etc. This is not a casual comment. I know this to be a fact. It is really amazing that anyone ever gets "Justice" in our system. Many do not! When it is clear that a person is guilty of a heinous crime, then he/she should be removed from society. The problem is KNOWING this without a doubt.

Having once been convicted of a very minor crime I couldn't possibly have committed, I agree with you. All I "lost" was my driver's license... and my job, because I commuted 50 miles each way... and my home because I lived out in the boonies and couldn't even go for food without a car...

The mind boggles thinking about what it's like to be wrongfully convicted of a major crime. And it happens. A few years ago, the papers here were filled with stories about a local guy who spent years on death row for a murder DNA evidence finally proved he didn't commit. Yes, he escaped execution. That doesn't prove the system works. It only shows that the system is capable of (sometimes?) avoiding complete failure. Nothing is ever going to give him back the time he lost on death row.