Can an evil character win?

[Sean]

The Wicker Man (1973)

Ah, forgot about that one.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0477348/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 Chigurh


http://www.pcwalls.net/download/no_country_for_old_men_wallpaper_hd-1440x900.jpg

Hell yes!

 

[CandiCame]

Ah, forgot about that one.

I thought I already said Wicker Man...

 

[CandiCame]

If only half of your readers/watchers are rooting for your protaganist you're either doing a horrible job or an incredible one. Probably the former. The hero pretty much has to win because if he doesn't you'd rarely have a story. Though it does happen, especially depending on how strictly your defining victory in a few movies.

The Bad Guy wins in Saw and again in Saw II. It's not until Saw III that anything that can be considered a victory over Jigsaw occurs. After that it's all downhill for him but he has two clear victories.

The Bad Guy wins (albeit a squeaker) in Fallen, where he tells you the story of how he "almost died."

I'd argue the bad guy wins in T3 (though the moral of the story was John Connor and Skynet are stuck in a stable time loop so neither one of them can actually WIN which sucks for them both.) So I guess we can nix this one.

If I sat here and dug I could probably find more stories where the bad guys win.

Also the reason bad guys are more interesting is because they generally have to carry the story. The good guys only have to win and make it look difficult. Think professional wrestling, one guy does all the work and the other guy gets to land his "super awesome nobody can get up from this" attack win the match and go home. But listen to the crowd, if they are cheering for the bad guy it's because the wrestlers are either failures (or John Cena).

I thought we had all collectively agreed that T3 didn't exist. Like we did with those Zelda games for the CD-i and the live action Avatar the Last Airbender.

 

[1sickbastard]

Orwell's "1984". The forces of evil most definitely win in that story.

Michael Moorcock's "Elric of Melnibone" saga, which ends with;
"Farewell, friend. I was a thousand times more evil than thou."
'And then it leapt from the Earth and went spearing upwards, its wild voice laughing mockery at the Cosmic Balance; filling the universe with its unholy joy.'

Arthur C Clark's "Childhood End", though to be fair, that story eschewed the Good vs. Evil dynamic entirely.

Dr Strangelove (movie) ends with the forces of stupidity winning

Anthony Burgess's "A Clockwork Orange" is another in which the main character (who is thoroughly reprehensible with no redeeming moral qualities" wins.

 

[VladHarkonnen]

Fuck the evil charecters, they already win too much in real life.

Bingo!

 

[Squibbs]

Life and times of Michael Jackson.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Dr. Strangelove ends with stupid, not evil, winning though. I mean if we're gonna start counting that movie then we might as well start adding in all the vampire comedy flicks but none of that is particularly fair.

 

[kbate]

No Country for Old Men

 

[knot_sweet]

"The Bachman Books", also "Apt Pupil" (all by Stephen King) are definately stories where the bad guy wins.

 

[kbate]

"The Bachman Books", also "Apt Pupil" (all by Stephen King) are definately stories where the bad guy wins.

Not sure that the bad guy ever 'wins' in King's books.

I don't think evil triumphs in any of those stories, in two of them the 'bad guy or bad guy's side endures, but in none of them does it win.

King, even in his biographical writings generally tells us that good should win or at least not lose outright.

 

[kbate]

Orwell's "1984". The forces of evil most definitely win in that story.

Michael Moorcock's "Elric of Melnibone" saga, which ends with;
"Farewell, friend. I was a thousand times more evil than thou."
'And then it leapt from the Earth and went spearing upwards, its wild voice laughing mockery at the Cosmic Balance; filling the universe with its unholy joy.'

Arthur C Clark's "Childhood End", though to be fair, that story eschewed the Good vs. Evil dynamic entirely.

Dr Strangelove (movie) ends with the forces of stupidity winning

Anthony Burgess's "A Clockwork Orange" is another in which the main character (who is thoroughly reprehensible with no redeeming moral qualities" wins.

In the Elric saga - the forces of good win a total victory over chaos. The entity of Stormbringer endures - keeping the balance despite the change to a world of law. Not a victory for evil, although the victories by evil were needed to bring about the victory for good.

1984 - evil only wins if you consider big brother evil. about 30% of litizens would be happier if we had a 'big brother' watching our lives.

A Clockwork Orange - is it more evil to operate outside the law, or more evil to operate outside of nature and morals? Which side won? The status quo?

 

[CandiCame]

If we count 1984 do we have to count Brave New World? I mean, the guy hangs himself at the end, but he wasn't actually the good guy somuch as the culture shocked, confused guy. I spent that entire book trying to figure out what the fuck that guy's problem is. I think i need to go back and read it as an adult, because all I remember was, "Wanna do some somas and go to the new 3D theater and then maybe fuck? You look down cause your mom died."

"NO FUCK ALL OF YOU AND YOUR FREE DRUGS AND AWESOME TECHNOLOGY AND OFFERS OF SEX I'M GOING TO HANG MYSELF!"

Dude. Why?

 

[TildaS]

Balance is better in this and most things. I'd not want a fairtale ending to most stories but yes other than as a one off doubt you'd want to read 5 books in a row where the utter bad people completely win

 

[SpeX125]

The guards are disrespectful to him and shown to be somewhat callous. The Italian is in it for the money and portrayed as greedy.
It's been a while since I've seen the movies but I don't recall him killing any character that is truly sympathetic or innocent. That's on purpose of course because we're supposed to root for him.
And don't get me started on the second book. Holy fuck that ending was awful. Just terrible.

Ok, fair enough. And I agree with you about the second book. After reading it, I could see why Jodie Foster wanted no part of it.
I did like the bit at the end with Barney, though.

 

[Super-Surprise]

The "good guys" in Easy Rider sure don't win at the end.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Titan A.E. ends with the people who built a genocide machine successfully activating it and wiping an entire species out. By that point it was justified since they'd been collective dicks for the last decade or so but still wiped out.

 

[1sickbastard]

"The good ended happily, and the bad unhappily. That is what
Fiction means." ~ Oscar Wilde, The Importance of Being Ernest Act III