Can a below average person be a dominant?

[Mr Blonde]

It has been my experience that submissives are drawn to powerful figures. Such power can take many forms:

• good leadership skills
• success with past responsibilities
• charisma and people skills
• awe-inspiring presence or panache
• physical prowess
• superior intelligence
• and so on

Obviously all dominants are human and have flaws, but doesn't a dominant need SOMETHING to attract submissives? Could someone who is below average or unremarkable in every way serve as the dominant partner in a consensual relationship?

But conversely, "powerful" people are drawn to areas outside of sex. College graduates are breeding less while the uneducated continue to have children at historical rates. Increasing numbers of otherwise powerful people describe themselves as almost asexual...or they treat their sexuality like an afterthought.

So...where does this leave the below average people? How can they lay claim to power in a D/s when it is something they have never held in other areas of their life?

Thoughts?

 

[rosco rathbone]

The answer appears obvious---below average dom attracts below average sub. THere's someone for everyone.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

There's also the humilation factor.

How humiliating for a clearly superior woman to submit to some slobbering idiot. (just a thought. Could work. )

 

[Phoenix Stone]

It has been my experience that submissives are drawn to powerful figures. Such power can take many forms:

• good leadership skills
• success with past responsibilities
• charisma and people skills
• awe-inspiring presence or panache
• physical prowess
• superior intelligence
• and so on

Obviously all dominants are human and have flaws, but doesn't a dominant need SOMETHING to attract submissives? Could someone who is below average or unremarkable in every way serve as the dominant partner in a consensual relationship?

But conversely, "powerful" people are drawn to areas outside of sex. College graduates are breeding less while the uneducated continue to have children at historical rates. Increasing numbers of otherwise powerful people describe themselves as almost asexual...or they treat their sexuality like an afterthought.

So...where does this leave the below average people? How can they lay claim to power in a D/s when it is something they have never held in other areas of their life?

Thoughts?

Seriously, there's what you are attracted to in the bedroom and what outside of it. There are also things such as low self-esteem that intervene.

And more seriously still, what usually seems to work is more what works on more women in general (if that's what you're trying to get at), which tends to be either someone who plays the 'game' well, or has good insight into the other person and how to deal with them effectively, which amounts to the same thing.

Depends on what you mean by below average. If you are only talking about those areas above, I'm not sure they mean so much to most people in most relationships because those aren't who most women have to choose from. That's like going after celebrities. It's not gonna happen. And most women are more passive than that, so it's more of her picking from whomever shows up. The persistent guy, the one who picks her up in a vulnerable moment then impresses her, and -- Most of All -- the guy with Confidence, wins.

As to serving as a dominant, skill in the bedroom counts for a lot, eh? Then there's 'fake it til you make it,' and finding someone who likes you and is willing to work together to get there.

Ps. I think things like intelligence matter a lot more to many of the people on line here than they matter to the general public.

 

[shy slave]

It has been my experience that submissives are drawn to powerful figures. Such power can take many forms:

• good leadership skills
• success with past responsibilities
• charisma and people skills
• awe-inspiring presence or panache
• physical prowess
• superior intelligence
• and so on

Obviously all dominants are human and have flaws, but doesn't a dominant need SOMETHING to attract submissives? Could someone who is below average or unremarkable in every way serve as the dominant partner in a consensual relationship?

But conversely, "powerful" people are drawn to areas outside of sex. College graduates are breeding less while the uneducated continue to have children at historical rates. Increasing numbers of otherwise powerful people describe themselves as almost asexual...or they treat their sexuality like an afterthought.

So...where does this leave the below average people? How can they lay claim to power in a D/s when it is something they have never held in other areas of their life?

Thoughts?

To tired to think this through indepth at the moment.

Initial thoughts are Mr Blonde you like to court controvesy.

What makes someone below average??

It is dependant on the scale of measure used, and that can range from objective measures to subjective measures.

That aside, charisma & people skills ~ people who 'may' be considered below average often have charisma.

This is seen time and again. They can persuade and convince a person to do something they know is morally or ethically wrong, yet their views are submerged by the charismatic persuasion of the other person.

Law courts are full of people like this.
Think: mules who carry drugs through customs, naive girls who run away with older (not necessarily wiser) men, anyone who ends up in a difficult situation they cannot control including murder.

Personally I can think of at least two people who were as thick as a plank but had charismatic personalities.

Again initial thoughts are that many subs on here are powerful in vanilla yet submissive sexually.
Therefore is it not possible that someone who is not powerful in vanilla life ie factory worker/shop assistant is Dominant sexually. TThis may be discovered once they are in a vanilla relationship that begins to develop towards D/s. Again there is evidence on these boards that that development of a D/s relationship is not uncommon.

Fantasy wise Yes subs do appear drawn to powerful figures and many stories on here plus porn movies and female fantantsy books play on that.

Off to sleep now, will think a little more about the concept.

Good Thread Mr Blonde
edit for my terrible spelling ~ again

 

[morninggirl5]

There are no below average people anymore. It's not allowed. Everyone MUST be above average.

 

[Technodivinitas]

Roots of Power

I think that more likely than not, a "below average" individual wouldn't even be attracted to Topping, (though they might well end up as rather door-matty subs,) simply because the universal factor that any form of Topping requires is Confidence, and a person who saw themselves, or allowwed themselves to be seen, as "below average" clearly lacks that.

So you might find someone who lacked self-esteem &/or confidence trying to bolster themselves by Topping, but they're not likely to attract any but the weakest slef-loathing of subs.

 

[shy slave]

Re: Re: Can a below average person be a dominant?

Seriously, there's what you are attracted to in the bedroom and what outside of it. There are also things such as low self-esteem that intervene.

For God sake don't let bytor read that...you will set him off again!

And more seriously still, what usually seems to work is more what works on more women in general (if that's what you're trying to get at), which tends to be either someone who plays the 'game' well, or has good insight into the other person and how to deal with them effectively, which amounts to the same thing.

Conversations with girlfriends and my own experience of vanilla sex is that alot of it is in the mind.
The words spoken added to the foreplay and then the sex fuel the success, or otherwise, or orgasm. As does fantasies of rape & non-consent. If a below average Dominant can figure out what fuels the fire for the sub it going to work no matter what. Whether it can be sustained or become brief play sessions or a on-off may be different.
Thats an observation brought out from the belief that at some point you have to talk to each other.
If one of you appears as dull as ditch water to the other, then it makes the relationship play and BDSM only or a non-starter.
I have in the past had sex with people that cannot string a sentence together, but it was still ok sex.
I just didn't want it to turn into a relationship.
Leaving BDSM as a game and nothing more, it would seem possible for below average D's to get laid (or whatever) as long as what they are offering matches the pysche needs of the sub on that day, at that time.

Ps. I think things like intelligence matter a lot more to many of the people on line here than they matter to the general public.

Do you think thats because the site has 'Lit' in the title and not 'sex'?
Or is it because we need to fuel our imaginations about who posts, what they are like etc & there is more opportunity for discussions that last months not minutes?
Or is it that the site is global, and attracts people who have more interests than Master Baiting?
(sorry I stole that Master Bait form the general board in a response about bytor baiting Dom's )
Or is it our own ego & self-belief that just because we have an unusual interest we cannot be below average as well!!

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

It has been my experience that submissives are drawn to powerful figures. Such power can take many forms:

• good leadership skills
• success with past responsibilities
• charisma and people skills
• awe-inspiring presence or panache
• physical prowess
• superior intelligence
• and so on

Obviously all dominants are human and have flaws, but doesn't a dominant need SOMETHING to attract submissives? Could someone who is below average or unremarkable in every way serve as the dominant partner in a consensual relationship?

But conversely, "powerful" people are drawn to areas outside of sex. College graduates are breeding less while the uneducated continue to have children at historical rates. Increasing numbers of otherwise powerful people describe themselves as almost asexual...or they treat their sexuality like an afterthought.

So...where does this leave the below average people? How can they lay claim to power in a D/s when it is something they have never held in other areas of their life?

Thoughts?

Just a quick thought..I don't believe that any person can be below average in every way. Just doesn't seem feasible. Case in point: I do not have a lot of the qualities listed..(I mean goodness, I am 5 feet tall, soft spoken, sort of shy and barely above average in the intelligence department) HOWEVER, I know how to talk to people, great at organization and the like.

In most cases it would seem damn near improbable for me to connect with any sort of submissive (male or female) and yet, I do with ease.

I believe therefore, that there has to be some redeeming factor in every person (nilla, Dom, sub) that makes most (if not all), at the very least, average. Across the board below average makes no sense.

Just my opinion
Luna

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Re: Re: Re: Can a below average person be a dominant?

For God sake don't let bytor read that...you will set him off again!

Oh, didn't you know? I was trying to attract bytor to my bedroom. Figured he'd think i was talking about myself, he'd conclude that that would make me vulnerable to his low blandishments, and come buzzing around like flies to the....

Do you think thats because the site has 'Lit' in the title and not 'sex'?

That's part of it. Most of it isn't sex chatline territory. And there are a lot of writers, who tend to be at least literate. And writing in general is territory that takes a bit more thought.

Or is it because we need to fuel our imaginations about who posts, what they are like etc & there is more opportunity for discussions that last months not minutes?

As above. People who want to Talk about sex, especially in a literate way, are people who like to use their brains more. And most people enjoy doing what they are good at.

But as to being a more intelligent crowd, that's simply not a value in all parts of the world or society. And it does seem to be here because we want to communicate ideas well, or we want to disagree logically, or whatever. We can't see who runs the fastest, and unless we do picture threads, who prettiness can't even be as much of a value. Intelligence is one of the things we have to present here.

Also, it's just been my experience that those I find below-average, typically do not characterize themselves thusly. And tend to give more value to whatever their particular strengths happen to be. Whether that be great penmanship, a fantastic string collection, keeping a tidy kitchen, or belonging to the right family that can get them out of all scrapes and eventually have them elected president.

It was a real disadvantage to be a klutzy little non-black girl where I grew up. I went on, as an adult, to rectify my former 'disabilities,' and can now fight, dance and mouth-off quite well. It is one of my lifelong disappointments that folks from my old neighborhood will never know.

 

[Xelebes]

The question should be whether or not an above-average person can be a sub!

 

[FungiUg]

How humiliating for a clearly superior woman to submit to some slobbering idiot.

Geez, you talking about me AGAIN?

Anyway, yeah, sure I think it can happen. "Below average" is like a cumulative thing, but people's personalities are made up of many factors. The common stereotype, for example, is "brawn versus brain." So someone could be dominant in one area, and quite possibly above average there, but below average in other areas.

Similarly, some of the submissive women I have met are rather bright. The one that my lover and I shared for several months last year certainly was!

 

[fallon2]

Successful

Successful dominants have an intuitive feeling for what subs crave or desire and give them what they need. If a person "is below average" they lack the "follow through" when giving the sub what they need.

I know one sub that LOVES verbal humiliation and another that doesn't. A successful dominant understands that and gives them what they need and yet respects them and their needs.

Several subs have told me that they were afraid, once in the bedroom, that they would "chicken out" but in reality it was the opposite - - - they wanted to please me and test their endurance. I think this is normal with most subs that I have met.

The "below average" dominant wouldn't give a damn and perhaps ignore the safe word and cause emotional and physical harm to the sub.

An example is a woman told me that she suffered from allergies and did not want to be gagged, and perhaps not be able to breathe. I understood this was a real concern and immediately dropped it from my plans. But I did tell her that I might just lay a scarf across her mouth and that she could blow on it and it would be gone permanently. In a sense, then, I used baby steps with her and with others.

Respect, respect and respect the person that you are with. I truly do not believe that a "below average dominant" would show any respect at any point.

 

[MissTaken]

The answer appears obvious---below average dom attracts below average sub. THere's someone for everyone.

Bingo.


Who determines what is average or above average?

What does it for one, may be far below specs for another.

Yep.

That is it.

 

[FungiUg]

That is it.

Me, I'm just here to perve at MissT's above average legs!

 

[Quint]

Unstudly men still get dates, despite Cosmo gospel that the ideal man is a great lover. Not all people wait to get all their expectations met in a partner.

But I think that there are more people overcompensating for low self-esteem by pretending, even in their own mind, to be a dominate master than Technodivinitas suggests. Not to paint with a broad stroke, but I have known my fair share of "Ummm, so this time I'm gonna be a barbarian with a 23 strength and 19 charisma and I've got, like, this huge sword." It's so easy to get a persona to make up for the person.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Unstudly men still get dates ...

Good, there's hope for me yet ... doing the happy dance http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/363868/Calvin.gif

but I have known my fair share of "Ummm, so this time I'm gonna be a barbarian with a 23 strength and 19 charisma and I've got, like, this huge sword." It's so easy to get a persona to make up for the person.

Remembers a certain Lit chat conversation and laughs his ass off ...

 

[Technodivinitas]

... I think that there are more people overcompensating for low self-esteem by pretending, even in their own mind, to be a dominate master than Technodivinitas suggests...

Conceded, in retrospeak. I was just sharing with a fellow slave recently that my own Master has insecurity issues- He's poorly educated, but quite physically strong & fit, whereas I am an intellectual, and not much for athletics, and you're most likely correct. I'm certain that he does use the disparity to compensate for subconscious feelings of inadequacy- it's also the area where he & I have the most trouble balancing my submission to him, not because I feel I'm smarter than him- I don't feel I am- but because his insecurity tends to become more well-defined than less when that comes into question.

So yes- probably more common than I originally intended to suggest, but I still believe that truely successful Dominants have at least mostly overcome such hurdles within themselves.

Doms/Tops? Am I wrong here?

 

[Phoenix Stone]

but I still believe that truely successful Dominants have at least mostly overcome such hurdles within themselves.

Doms/Tops? Am I wrong here?

Hah! And what do you Expect them to say?

Seriously, thinking about it a little more deeply, and from that angle, I really don't think it's necessary that they have it together for them to be good at it. Haven't you seen people who are fucking brilliant at something, yet a real insecure mess after each performance? I'm thinking of various performing artists here, but it's true for other areas, too.

Hell, I even think that if there Is such a thing as a below-average person overall, that s/he could be a perfectly good dom/me. Haven't you heard of idiot savants?

 

[Technodivinitas]

Hmmm- yeah.

I think I'll try calling my Master an idiot-savant, just to see what happens! *LOL* Or, maybe not. I do actually LIKE most of the skin on my ass...

 

[Quint]

Re: Hmmm- yeah.

I think I'll try calling my Master an idiot-savant, just to see what happens! *LOL* Or, maybe not. I do actually LIKE most of the skin on my ass...

HA! I love it.

Yeah, all sorts of reasons for domming. To escape reality, or to fully experience reality?

 

[bridgeburner]

Sure. All it takes is a complimentary sub. Everyone meets someone's criteria. There are plenty of ugly, unsuccessful dumb people out there matched up with adoring partners and however vanilla their sex lives may or may not be it is generally the case that one partner in any relationship is the Top.

I've known plenty of guys I wouldn't dip my head to much less kneel down and offer oral servitude and yet they've got other women who are willing and eager to do so. Somebody thinks they're the cat's pajamamas, it's just not me.

Likewise I'm a pretty good catch to some and as appetizing as warmed-over snot to others.


-B

 

[Dstorage]

<SNIPPETY>

So...where does this leave the below average people? How can they lay claim to power in a D/s when it is something they have never held in other areas of their life?

Thoughts?

Hmmm, according to definitions, aren't exactly half of all the people claiming to be doms below average?

 

[Mr Blonde]

It was unsaid but in my mind I was using the standard distributions.

Top 15% is above average

Middle 70% is average

Bottom 15% is below average

(Those are rough numbers)

So basically think about the first 100 people you see....we are talking about the bottom 15 of that group. Can any of them be dominants?

 

[AngelicAssassin]

... we are talking about the bottom 15 of that group. Can any of them be dominants?

Only if they're topping from the bottom ... http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/363868/2cool2.gif