Calling for back-up

[Lovely Latina]

I'm beginning to desperately feel as if I am destined to remain childless for the rest of my natural life. *sigh of desperation*

My husband (age 31) and I (age 29) had discussed the subject of kids on several occassions before marrying and agreed that it was something we both wanted down the road. It was so important to me, that I wouldn't have married him otherwise. But boy oh boy, I had no idea how LOOOONG and winding this road was gonna be. Since getting married (in 1994), the NOW almost "taboo" subject is something he is constantly dismissing with a wave of his hand as if to say, "Yeah yeah...later. We'll get to it somewhere between taking out the garbage and renewing our driver's licenses."

Arguments for the opposition:

--Having kids = Sex life extincto

--He wants to enjoy the "just us" time for as long as possible (Hell! He was my high school "sweet tart"...it's been "just us" for almost 14 years now! Six married.)

--He likes for us to be able to just come and go as we please without having to worry about time, sitters, baby cartage, etc.

--Having complete responsibility for another human life 24/7 (eek!)

--$$$ $$$ $$$ (if everyone waited until their financials were sound...I'd be 10 years old right now!)

--Kids create strain (and sometimes jealousy/resentment) on a marriage and it will never be as "close and intimate" as it was pre-partum.


I know these are all valid arguments, and each holds a grain of truth. But surely the *PLUSES* hold far more weight. He hasn't come right out and said that he definitely does NOT want kids, but I have this eerie sense that it is headed in that direction and it scares the HELL outta me. (Then again...does he really have a choice when I'M the one taking the birth control pills? I'M KIDDING!...no really...I am. <devilish grin> ).

I'd like to know what some of your experiences have been in terms of how having kids has positively and/or negatively affected your relationship and your life. Guess I'm a little more interested in the POSITIVE, but I'd like to hear both. And even if you don't have kids, your comments on what you've observed with others who do would also be appreciated. Any suggestions on how I might increase his receptivity to the idea? I'd really like to be armed with a little more "ammunition" the next time we discuss the subject.

Thanks in advance to any who offer their parental wisdom and advice.

Always,

LL



[This message has been edited by Lovely Latina (edited 04-24-2000).]

 

[Weird Harold]

Originally posted by Lovely Latina:
--Having kids = Sex life extincto
--Kids create strain (and sometimes jealousy/resentment) on a marriage and it will never be as "close and intimate" as it was pre-partum.

These two points are myths.

Until they start walking, there's nothing to stop you from having sex. Once they start walking, there's still nap time for spontaneous cuddling, and locks for bedroom doors other times.

Kids don't cause stress on a marraige. They may expose stresses that already existed, but they seldom are the cause of the stress.

Finances and babysitters are valid concerns. Easily eliminated by a bit of planning and organization. Grandparents and other family are usually more than happy to take a kid for a few hours, or even a day or two. If you have medical insurance that covers family memebers, then children aren't all that much more expensive than Cable TV with all the premium channels. They're cheaper than a new car.

Originally posted by Lovely Latina:
He hasn't come right out and said that he definitely does NOT want kids, but I have this eerie sense that it is headed in that direction and it scares the HELL outta me.

How is Hubby around other people's children? If he's short tempered, or tentative, it may be a sign that he doesn't know how to deal with them. That doesn't necessarily mean he wouldn't be a good father, but it might make him wonder whether he could deal with 'the terrible twos', the 'why' stage, the 'no' stage, and all of the other exasperating stages a child goes through.

There's a public service spot running on the local sports tlak radio station that contains the line "Daddy's going to support you for eighteen years." If he's heard that spot or others like it he might have reservations about the extended commitment required to be a good father.

If you have friends with young children, get him into situations where he can interact with the kids, and let your friends indoctrinate him with all of the wonderful things that happen to children as they grow up. Things like how proud my little brother was to be the 'Bing Rearer' at my sister's wedding. The day another brother's "Soup sank." Things like my granddaughter's quest to find out who invented Macaroni and cheese.

The first tooth, first steps, riding a bike for the first time, and all of the thousands of other firsts a child goes through are moments as important to the parents (and grandparents) as they are to the child.

If you can get him thinking in terms of guiding a child's discoveries instead of "being responsible 24/7", you should be able to calm the normal nervousness of becoming a first time parent.

If his concerns run deeper than the normal 'cold feet' every first time parent goes through, you may have a serious problem. There are men who just aren't temperamentally suited to fatherhood. Don't talk to him about having a 'baby', talk to him about being a parent. What does he want to teach his son? What kind of shotgun is best for boyfriends when his daughter starts to fill out. Get him thinking past the baby stage to the future.

There is no feeling in the world like holding your child for the very first time. That one moment makes all of the dirty diapers between then and the first 'DaDa' worth every stinky minute of infancy.

After the stinky stage is history, there is nothing like getting down on the floor and playing with your child (or grandchild.) The happiest moments of my life have been being silly with an inquisitive child.

 

[Gatorboy]

LL, i am not speaking from any personal experience, but from what i have seen from friends, and family members its pretty much been the same. Yes, having children will cause some changes to be made in your lives, but all of the people i have talked to have said they couldnt imagine their lives without their kids. I myself cannot wait to have my first kid, even though im still waiting to find the right woman to have it with. The joy of holding a child that i helped to create, i am sure that it surpasses any other joy known. Yet i am sure it is also one of the scariest, knowing that this new person is going to be depending on you for everything. I know i probably havent helped you with anything i have said, but i tried. Just be patient, and continue to get him to talk about it. Let him know how important this is to you.

 

[Angelique]

Hi LL! Just so happens I have some experience in raising children. So, hopefully I can help a little bit.

First and foremost, I agree with EVERYTHING Weird Harold said and would like to add a bit to that.

RE: The Finances - Some history here...my ex-husband and I divorced when my daughter was 3 months old (that was 7 1/2 years ago). Finances were a major concern to me, even though I did receive child support. To make a long story short, yes, I did have several years of struggling financially BUT I worked like a dog to make ends meet.

In 1997 I was dating a guy and with just ONE incident of unprotected sex, got pregnant w/my son. Never expected that to happen since my daughter was a fertility drug baby, but it did, so I dealt with it. The guy I was dating didn't want ANYTHING to do w/the baby, so I opted to have him on my own. I don't collect child support from this guy and didn't name him as the father on the birth certificate. I was REALLY sweating it trying to figure out how the hell I was going to have a life and support both of my children. Again, I managed to do just fine by working from home for several years.

I guess my point is, I didn't plan on raising my daughter alone, and never expected to have another child two years ago. But I wouldn't change it for the world. With a little creativity, and determination, people can have children without going broke. Actually, since having my son, I've been able to buy a nice house in a middle-class neighborhood and I drive a nice SUV. I'm not living large by any stretch, but we're comfortable. So anyone who says they want to wait 'til they're financially secure to have kids is just using that as an excuse not to have them. Just my opinion.

Now, onto the sex part. Obviously, I didn't have any trouble in the sex department after I had my daughter, or my son wouldn't be here. I'm still single, as in not married, but I am seeing someone. We work our intimacy around my kids. Sometimes, we meet for lunch and enjoy a quickie, other times, we're intimate after the kids go to bed. Yes, the days of laying in bed all weekend, enjoying the company of each other are nonexistent at this point, but that's not going to be forever. Creativity is the key. Two people just have to be willing to try.

Ok, I know I'm babbling, but that's just because I feel so strongly about my kids. My son will be 2 next weekend and even though he was completely unexpected, I don't regret having him. I love my children more than life itself; there's nothing better! So if "little 'ol me" can manage to keep a sex life going, and stay financially secure, I think just about anyone can do it!

Now I've put my two cents in...hope I helped in some small way.

Angelique

Oh and btw, there's nothing better than having your child come running up into your arms saying "I wuv you, mommy/daddy"...it melts your heart!

 

[Prince]

Hi LL, we are almost the same age, and I was also aware of the "myths of marriage" (and kids). I just wanted to offer my .02

--Having kids = Sex life extincto

--He wants to enjoy the "just us" time for as long as possible (Hell! He was my high school "sweet tart"...it's been "just us" for almost 14 years now! Six married.)

I am a happily married man with two lovely kids. The Sex is still great! I admit, it wasn't like the early years where I couldn't wait to get home just to jump in the sack, but I'm not complaining. It think this matter is mostly because of age. Not because of the kids. In a way, it is more exciting, to actually wait for the kids to go to bed, before we really start romancing the night away or "looking forward" for the night to come.

--He likes for us to be able to just come and go as we please without having to worry about time, sitters, baby cartage, etc.

I have to agree with you on this one.. Yes, kids will take away your freedom, but it will actually add some happiness in other ways.

 

[Savage Kitten]

my turn

we are the same age hun.. but our worlds vary greatly.. i am divorced from a 10yr marriage.. i had my children right away and then had my tubes tied (my philos. is a person should not have more children then they can afford.. mentally and finacially) like everyone else said.. children are a responsibility.. a LIFE LONG responsibility.. mine are now 10 and 7.. they are my heart and soul.. and i make a lot of sacrifices for them but thats the decision i made when i decided to have them

listen carefully to your husband... he's telling you that he's not prepared for that responsibility and that committment.. he's probally scared as hell.. and he has every right to be.. this is a human life we're talking about.... communication is the key

i'm sure there's a way you can calm his fears about having children without sounding insistant and stubborn

best wishes hun {{{hugz}}}
SK~

 

[Unclebill]

I seem to have the gift of being able to find the silver lining's dark cloud so here's my no so pleasant offering. Much as I hate to do to do this, let me offer the side you probably don't want to consider but really must if you're intent on having kids (and it sounds fairly certain you are).

Perhaps he has changed his mind as he's matured and doesn't want kids now. It is an awesome responsibility with which some people don't deal very well. To change his mind a fair decision but he should be honest with you about it if that's the case. If he doesn't want kids, it won't be in their or your best interest to 'surprise' him with one (or more).

Worse, perhaps he never wanted kids but wanted you and was willing to deceive you to get what he wanted. Despicable, I know, but there are those kinds of people. And that's probably not a good choice for a father.

In either case, if you are determined to have kids, you may have to find a man who's willing and happy to be the father. And those men are available.

I know that this is not the sort of thing you want to have to deal with and I certainly hope I'm wrong. But just because what I offer is not particularly nice to hear, please don't dismiss it without some consideration. The price in misery over the long haul will be much greater.

Again, I certainly hope that what I've offered is completely off base, but please consider it for the sake of your happiness and you children's welfare.

 

[Lovely Latina]

Wow! Some truly great responses! THANK YOU SO MUCH to everyone who has given their advice and shared their experiences. (And also to those who have emailed me on a more personal note.) It truly is a sense of family here...and I love it.

Harold...as always, your insights are inspiring. I have observed my husband in those kinds of situations and I *did* notice something quite significant. Around older kids (aged 4 to 9), he's incredible! They love him and he loves them...he's like one big giant kid. But get him around newborns or ones that can't talk yet, and he avoids them like the plague. "Wanna hold her?" NUH UH NO WAY NO HOW! But he completely adores his 5-year-old niece and I am 110% sure that he'd make a truly great and loving father.

Gator...you most certainly did "help" me. <smile> It sounds like when you do find that right woman to share that "special joy" with, that she'll be a VERY lucky woman.

Angelique...WOW! I have to say that I admire the HELL out of you! You would truly be on MY list of most incredible women. You've "melted MY heart" with your incredible story. Thanks so much. = )

Prince..."check'll be in the mail" in a few.

Savage...thanks, girlfriend...I take your advice to heart. You may be right. Maybe he just isn't ready yet and we should have more discussions (as Harold suggested) along the lines of what we'd like to achieve and get out of "parenting" as opposed to just "having a baby." So when we gonna have that threesome in the hot tub?????

Uncle Beeeeel...your advocations are just as appreciated. Thank you. <smile> But yes...I'm afraid (and gladly so) that they are off. My husband doesn't have a deceptive bone in his body and I believe with all my heart that his intentions (before the vows) were true. I just think that as the *REALITY* gets closer and becomes more real...he's just getting a bit more nervous about it. Your advice, though, is truly worth consideration for women in my situation, but fortunately not in this case.

<warm smile to all>

LL

[This message has been edited by Lovely Latina (edited 04-24-2000).]

 

[Weird Harold]

Originally posted by Lovely Latina:
Around older kids (aged 4 to 9), he's incredible! They love him and he loves them...he's like one big giant kid. But get him around newborns or ones that can't talk yet, and he avoids them like the plague. "Wanna hold her?" NUH UH NO WAY NO HOW!

I think he's fairly typical in that respect. I know I'm not as fond of dealing with children in there 'pre-rational' stages as I am playing and teaching them after they can talk either. I think it has something to do with the fact that a newborn looks so small and fragile in a man's big hands.

Try enlisting the aid of his neice. Get her to talk him into 'burping' one of her dolls for example. If she can get to to play with dolls, and you keep enthusing over your friends younger kids, he'll get more comfortable with the idea of babies.

You need to find some way to impress on his subconscious that the "ugly red and wrinkled" stage doesn't last long. Kids develop a personality sooner than most people think. If you volunteer to babysit for friends infants, it will help to show him that they don't restrict your life as much as he might think.

I think you're right. It sounds as if he'd be a wonderful father. You just need to help him over the 'cold feet' stage of becoming a father. You might try pointing out that if he doesn't become a father soon, he'll be too old to enjoy being 'Grandpa' when the time comes.

 

[Beebeeblue]

LL, yes I agree with all your husbands points. BUT you can remind him that it is all worth it. I was about 4wks pg when I got married, so needless to say, our daughter was a BIG suprise!!! I never realized I wanted children so bad, till I almost lost her while pg.

yes, there is a physical, emotional, financial, and a great mental strain(especially with cases of colic all nite long), but seeing those precious toothless smiles just makes everything seem so petty. And when my daughter looks and gives her dad his special smile, he just melts every time. Every day I wake up wondering what she will do next. They are so full of wonder and innocence. I could go on all day, but I wont. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you LL.

 

[Earthgoddess]

dear LL,As I write this my heart is heavy for you... I hope that my experiences may offer some help...I have a wonderful 4 year old. His father(my ex)and I wanted desperately to have a baby and had been trying,then lost a baby, we were incredibly blessed to conceive soon after and I now have the most wonderful little guy in the universe...but his dad could not handle the marriage and left me when son was 5 months old...still loved and took care of his son...but our marriage was totally based on having a baby and once that was done we woke up to a non-existent marriage... I really advocate bringing a child into a relationship between two people who love the idea and are willing to support each other through it...to dispel some of your spouse's fears...SEX is great after a baby...we did the family bed and I nursed full time,so for 5 months we had a great normal sex life(YES THERE WERE MANY OTHER ISSUES AND YES WE TRIED COUNSELING BUT WE HAD SOME MAJOR DIFFERENCES...NEVER MARRY OUTSIDE OF YOUR SPECIES...BREEDING WITH THE CRETIN DID PRODUCE A BEAUTIFUL CHILD BUT HE MAY BE AN ANOMALY)and after we split,I ended up with a
great guy who enjoyed dating a family.he adjusted to the family bed and nursing interuption.I nursed until son was two years old..so we got good at quickies and shower sex

...After that relationship ended i meet and am married to a man who treats son like his own and my son brags that he has two daddy's...he also knows to knock on the door and daddy and I spend lots of time showering
..the cleanest and happiest parents on the block...hubby has decided he does not want kids though..and i am dealing with that,his reasons are similiar to your husbands but since we are parenting it is based on a comparision to our current life...do not rush your husband,work on building the marriage and perhaps altering some of his concerns...like developing a budget to plan financially, grab some parenting magazines and take a look at their financial and emotional suggestions...i really think you have some great advice on this thread...babies are terrifying creatures...but they do redefine awe for you...and remember parenting and procreation are not the same...look into borrowing a child for the day or the weekend..mine is availible

...you sound as though you will make a wonderful mother and if you love him as much as you do work with him to find answers to his questions and comforts to his fears...Before I had my son i worked as a
labor assistant,and one of the nurses I worked with said, that parenting often began as the couple negotiated the path from couple to couple planning to have a baby...best of luck LL you are in my thoughts

 

[Lovely Latina]

LOL!

Harold, darling...you have painted QUITE a vivid (and priceless) image in my mind of my (very masculine) husband with a Betsy Wetsy slung over his shoulder, gently patting it as my wide-eyed, smiling niece looks on and nods encouragingly. Kodak moment if there ever was one! Thanks again for your wonderful advice. = )

Beebee...witnessing that "melting of daddy's heart" is what I truly look forward to. <smile> I've already seen hints of it with his niece and it warms me all up inside to see the love and adoration in his smiling eyes when he's with her. And you're right...it's ALL worth it! It's like many a new mother has claimed--that all the long and excrutiating hours of labor and pain were all but a distant memory at the moment they first held that precious new life in their arms. Thanks so much for your well wishes.

Earthgoddess...*sigh*...your post was WONDERFUL, and along with the many others here, has really given me a sense of renewed hope. = ) It sounds as if you, too, are quite a terrific mother. (Let's just keep our men from gettin' together and "pow-wowing" on these kind of issues, k? <wink...lol> ) Thanks again, sweetie. *hugs*

LL

 

[Earthgoddess]

well *hugs* yourself super chickie...keep up your good work..you have become such a bright spot here on the BB i love

reading all your posts...hoping that i lose my virginity on this one...and uh not be sound unpleasant but i neverNEVER forgot the pain,nausea and discomfort...but it was all worth it...they lied when they said childbirth is a pain you forget...my baby popped out at almost nine squalling pounds and despite my resolve to have a traditional birth with only massage and herbal essences i was screaming like a jackal in heat...so much for zen and the art of childbirth...burt he was worth every second of it...and this provides good guilt fodder except i only labored for about 1 and1/2 hours...not a long and excrutiating ordeal...but i will milk it for all its drama...it is two in the morning and you could not find a phone?where were you..do you know that i went from 1 to 9 centimeters in less than an hour...for what to have you go out and not even call????...love to you LL...hope it helps

 

[Jade]

LL

Hey girl!

You and I need to arrange a husband swap!!!


~Jade

 

[Skibum]

LL, I hope you can convince your husband to go for it. He has no idea what he is missing if he doesn't have kids. Mine are almost grown now, and I see less of them all the time, and I really miss that. Being a father has been the best part of my life.

So good luck.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

I've avoided responding to this topic because I could spend hours talking about my kids, so let me just say this...

A baby changes everything, just as a marriage changes everything. There is compromise of time and attention, there is loss of privacy and intimacy, there is financial stress and personal doubts of parental worth. What you get in return is so much more, but is IS different, totally, and if he isn't willing to let that happen, he shouldn't. Not that he wouldn't love your child, or be a good father, but there will problems down the road, many larger than you can handle, if he isn't truly into having a baby.

One thing, though, and you can tell him this -- don't wait until you are 100% ready, because you never will be. You will never have enough space, enough money, enough free time, enough diapers to say with 100% assurity, "Okay, we're ready. Let's conceive!" Tell him not to let that be a stumbling block. If he waits for things to be perfect you'll never have a child.

I'm stopping now before I start gushing love for my kids. Good luck.

 

[Jade]

geez... all this talk about people with grown kids is starting to have me a tad bit paranoid that perhaps my dad or an uncle or something is maybe on literotica.com and I don't even know it!! Yikes!!

 

[Svedish_Chef]

LL, cant give you any backup really apart from that you have to still be young enough to run around after the little un, and that is something I'm scared of..... now I just have to find the right woman ahh well cant have anything. Oh yeah you could always say that you want to be known as a mother not a grandmother (I hate making those mistakes). My parents are less than 25 years older than me so its handy. we lika a lot of the same things eg music, TV etc....
Just a few random ideas.... hope it works for you
da Chef

 

[Angelique]

Wow! Look at all of the wonderful responses you've gotten LL! Thank you for your kind words, but honestly, I'm just a normal gal who loves the hell out of her kids and would walk to the ends of the earth for them. Oh, and I think being a Gemini has helped, too!

I wish you all the best and hope that you can achieve all of your dreams! With a little determination, and a lot of love, anything is possible.

Remember, the bigger the risk, the better the reward. Having children is definitely a huge step, but the rewards are priceless and neverending.

I only have one final word for you:
EPIDURAL!!!!! Had it w/both kids and thoroughly enjoyed labor and delivery!

You'll be in my thoughts. Keep us all posted!

Angelique

 

[Hung_Like_Horsey]

Looking for something?

 

[ZULUBOY]

Hey, LL, long time, no speak!

Just my half-cent's worth. Talking as a guy whose first child is "en-route", I may have a tiny insight to offer.

My wife has always wanted "bubbies". Me, well...As an immigrant to this country, with most of my assets tied up back "home", getting established is taking a while.

So, we kept putting it off. We've been married three years, and she mentions the B-Word every six months or so.

Anyway, in December while on a trip back home to South Africa, we decided that we'd keep putting it off forever, always finding some excuse or the other. So, the decision was made to try (me thinking we'd have at least six months before anything happened).

Well, to cut a long story short, she fell pregnant (how do you "fall" pregnant?) two weeks later!

Now, she's about to stop work. We've adjusted our budget, I've been spurred on to go the extra mile at work, and neither of us could be happier! So, TELL him you want one, and GO FOR IT!!!! Oh yes, our sex life has never been better!

 

[Guest]

Having kids tests every emotional and physical boundary you ever thought you had....
Then goes breezing past them effortlessly. Ther are reams and reams of positive reasons to create a new soul. And scores of negatives.
Details forthcoming I will tell you this. Most times there is nothing greater than having someones complete and utter trust, for no other reason than you are their world.
It is a feeling of giving up every selfish part of you mind, heart and soul and letting that little person have all the love you have to give regardless of anything.
It is something I would never, ever give back.

BBB

 

[Lovely Latina]

Mine are almost grown now, and I see less of them all the time, and I really miss that.

Skibum...*sigh*...ya just cost me a 7-dollar call home to mommy and daddy. Thanks for the guilt trip! *lol* (Btw...can you really touch your eyebrows with your tongue??) http://geocities.com/r337m0nk3y/net/tongue.gif

...don't wait until you are 100% ready, because you never will be.

The most widely held piece of advice regarding kids...and yet the most ignored and disregarded. I agree completely, DCL. Are we ever truly "prepared" for anything life presents us with? I just know, as I'm sure is the case for you and everyone else here, that once we *do* finally have a child, he won't be able to imagine his life without him or her.

Oh...and you can "gush" as much and as often as you like! <smile> The way you write...I'm sure it would turn all of us on. <wink> *lol*

Zulu!! Hey Buddy! CONGRATULATIONS! That made me so happy to hear about your little "bubbie" on the way! "Falling pregnant?" Hmmmmm...reminds me of that Bruce Willis line that went something like, "...so ya tripped and fell and your dick just slipped into my wife?" or sumptin' like dat <shrug> *lol* Anywayz...congrats and thanks for the encouraging words.

Jade~...MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY! (About an uncle or father being on here...NOT about the "husband swapping" thang...lol). Hmmmm...then again...<ponders>...<smiles>

Uncle Horsey???? Nice ring to it...but ya ever seen The Sopranos? = )P

Thanks for the thoughts, Chef. Thankfully, I look pretty young for my age, so I don't think I'll have to worry about being mistaken as "Grandma Latina" for quite a while yet.

Nexus...<smile>.

LL

 

[Unclebill]

LL, makes me feel good to hear that I'm completely off base on this one. I certainly wish you the best.

Zulu!! Hey Buddy! CONGRATULATIONS! That made me so happy to hear about your little "bubbie" on the way! "Falling pregnant?" Hmmmmm...reminds me of that Bruce Willis line that went something like, "...so ya tripped and fell and your dick just slipped into my wife?" or sumptin' like dat <shrug> *lol* Anywayz...congrats and thanks for the encouraging words.

Oh, my god: somebody else actually saw Bruce Willis in 'The Last Boyscout'! I'm amazed. I loved his character in that movie for reasons I'll bet no one would ever guess (and you'll have to watch it before I answer the obvious question).

Warmest regards, Bill

[This message has been edited by unclebill (edited 04-29-2000).]

 

[Lajo]

LL

I have 2 and can tell you two simple things.
1) When my first was born...I instantly knew the many of love at first sight. I knew the moment I saw her that I loved this screaming, crying bundle that I would love her unconditionally!
2) My life was (and will be)never the same again!

There is all the crying, yelling, spitting, pooping, diapers, bottles, up every hour because they're sick, tantrums, meltdowns, frustrations, anger, sorrow, and tears.
BUT...that is all forgettable when your child stops crying simply because YOU are holding them. Or the first time your child says "I Love You!" Or the first step they take. IN otherwords...whatever minuses you list...the joy a child brings (to a family who truly WANTS the child) makes all that "negativity" worthwhile!

GOOD LUCK!