Building A Fantasy World

[Guest]

Ok, so this is a huge topic, but something I've been pondering over the past few days. My husband is a huge fan of the fantasy genre and he's currently reading the Seer King trilogy by Chris Bunch (I just started the first book, too).

We were chatting the other night about writing and so on (he also writes, but very hard hitting thrillers/horror and one lighter novel, so far), and he mentioned to me that he thought I'd be very good at writing within the fantasy genre, particularly novels. The trilogy we are both reading contains a lot of graphic sex, as well as the usual implied stuff found in mainstream fantasy. He was telling me that with my imagination, coupled with my ability to write arousing sex scenes, I could do well in this genre. I'd never even considered it, before he suggested it.

We've been doing a lot of brain-storming since then, but I was just wondering if others, who have written fantasy (in particular novels), had any opinions on the following points.

How do you go about building up your world?

Do you find you come up with the characters first, then build the world around them, or vice versa?

Do you use much magic in your fantasy writing? If so, is it always dark, or do you add lighter shades?

I have so many questions and a lot of research to do, but this whole thing has really got my mind focused on getting back into some "serious" writing.

I know no two answers will be the same, and I should find a way that works for me, through trial and error, but maybe this will spark an interesting and educational discussion, for me, at least.

Thanks, in advance!

Lou

 

[Svenskaflicka]

As always - it depends.

Sometimes, I get this idea for a place or an event, and then I build that up, and drop suitable characters into it.
Other times, I get this vision of a character in my head, and then start looking for his/her surroundings.

Either way you go about it, you should make up enough about both things to write an essay about it, before you even start your real story - it lends more credibility to the story.

I include a lot of magic, both light and dark - magic is usually not either or, it's the people behind the magic, and their intent, that decides if the magic is light or dark. In my world, that is.

Also, I like to use a little bit of humour, even in strong, dramatic stories - it adds life and a light in the darkness.

 

[Guest]

As always - it depends.

Sometimes, I get this idea for a place or an event, and then I build that up, and drop suitable characters into it.
Other times, I get this vision of a character in my head, and then start looking for his/her surroundings.

Either way you go about it, you should make up enough about both things to write an essay about it, before you even start your real story - it lends more credibility to the story.

I include a lot of magic, both light and dark - magic is usually not either or, it's the people behind the magic, and their intent, that decides if the magic is light or dark. In my world, that is.

Also, I like to use a little bit of humour, even in strong, dramatic stories - it adds life and a light in the darkness.

Thank you!

Some great points there, in particular the advice about writing the essay(s), before I even begin on the story. Makes very good sense to me.

I think my main problem is that I have never, not once, written any kind of notes for any story I've written (short or novel), I usually have an idea of stuff in my head, then just write it on the fly. It has become my "style", and I am not restricting myself in any way, it just flows from my fingers. But, I realise that with writing fantasy this is a must. I don't know that I can even do it, but I guess there's only one way to find out.

Lou

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I remember reading something about this background work-method, where you were recommended to write so much stuff about your characters, build up their backgrounds so vividly, that if anyone asked you, you could answer

"Why Marjorie turned down Rainier's proposal? Well, that was because when she was 16, her uncle left his wife and ran off with the Austrian au-pair Renate, and ever since, Marjorie didn't trust Germans when it came to marriage - sure, she could have him as a fuck-buddy, but she was never looking for any serious commitment..."

 

[tolyk]

As you said you knew, you'd get varied answers.. Every person builds their fantasy worlds differently.. Personaly, it is part of what has me stuck in my own process. I have so much development done on my world, so much studying and world building, that I got out of the story, and into the world itself.

I've got a world, with so many different types of races, and each race has its own type of government, or multiple forms of government (in the case of humans of course).. I have a astronomical charts drawn out, star charts, weather details, and the list continues.. 3 binders full of various information, plus some..

Magic, in and of itself, is a neutral force, as Svenska stated.. it is the people who pursue it that warp it to their uses.. If you unlease the raw essence of magic, it is chaotic, destroys without distinguishment.. it cannot tell good from evil, it is non-sentient, neutral.

One of the first things I do if I am thinking of a story through character based first, who is his/her nemesis. Of course, what is the "hero" campaigning for, why is s/he a hero, or story worthy? What makes them special, that signals them out in this world that makes them the main character that is. Thus, from there, I can build from that, and make more ideas for the world. Who does the nemesis worship, why does he want to stop the hero. What higher powers of good and evil are there in this world? (Gods are a good place to start.. religion on a world is easy for people to associate with, and instantly gives readers a common-link to the average day person on that world)

On my biggest project, there is 8 gods, 4 "good", 4 "evil"... One of each of them is more powerful than the rest, so thus, there are two more superior gods, one of evil and good.

One thing to keep in mind is balance.. If you make something too powerful, then readers become skeptical and think, well why doesn't that super powerful being just rule the world?? Thus why I have my gods balanced, good and evil having equal power, in an ever going battle, the only way for nuetrality (I don't believe in a god of nuetrality, as on some fantasy worlds, it is just about the scales of balance)

Anyways, I probably have a lot more to say, but I can't think of anything else at the moment.. except for one more example of balance... I read this in a fantasy authors advice book somewhere.. (something along these lines at least)

"Picture a dragon. One single dragon destroying an entire village, burning it to a charred ruin, eating what few inhabitants weren't too 'well done'. Now, picture that same dragon ten times larger. It would be fun to write about, sure. But where would it live? How would it eat enough to survive? These questions would go through your readers heads too. Moderation, and good descriptions are important to keeping your readers interested. Remembering everything you put into your world, remember what hunts what, balance things out and make things believable even for a make-believe world."

(As I said, something like that)

-Tol

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Ok, I write a lot of fantasy so here's how I usually do it. Usually I come up with an interesting idea or character and build the world around that. I do this because the world is the most mutable thing in fantasy. Once I have the intriguing characters, I usually come up with where they came from a little to describe why they are as they are. For instance in one work, I have this overly jaded and silent magic-user, so where he comes from ended up making the Middle Ages look like Paradise and had a heavily anti-magic church.

Don't worry about having characters from conflicting areas in a fantasy story too much. Often you can explain why you have a technophile and a magician in the same hero group by having an island or country somewhere else that's more technopunk or by having two continents who evolved differently. One got all the ley lines and became a magic powerhouse and the other didn't and became a technology powerhouse.

I also find it easy to design the world while designing the story a little. The two sort of help shape each other.

Magic in my works tend to be an amoral tool much like science. The good characters may have it but it can be used just as well for evil. I also vary on using heaing and other white magics in stories. Sometimes all that is seen is the destructive magics, other times you see both, sometimes the destructive magic also works as a healing magic and vice versa. It varies personally and I would advise you not to get too wrapped up in traditional views of magic.

Good luck on your work. Fantasy is one of the nicer genres to write in because it is the only free genre. There are no restrictions. Realistic novels have to follow human life, sci-fi is restrained by the laws of science, but fantasy is absolutely free because you can explain away the impossible with a single paragraph. So my main advice is don't restrict yourself, write what you want to, and if you want mythology is good for getting you in the spirit and helping you design allies and enemies and random civilizations and whatnot.

 

[Guest]

As you said you knew, you'd get varied answers.. Every person builds their fantasy worlds differently.. Personaly, it is part of what has me stuck in my own process. I have so much development done on my world, so much studying and world building, that I got out of the story, and into the world itself.

I've got a world, with so many different types of races, and each race has its own type of government, or multiple forms of government (in the case of humans of course).. I have a astronomical charts drawn out, star charts, weather details, and the list continues.. 3 binders full of various information, plus some..

Blimey! That must be loads of info. I'm kind of worried about doing a similar thing. I can see myself enjoying the process of building my characters and the world around them so much (I'm sat here writing notes now!), I'll actually have to check myself and stop somewhere, to begin to write the novel.

Magic, in and of itself, is a neutral force, as Svenska stated.. it is the people who pursue it that warp it to their uses.. If you unlease the raw essence of magic, it is chaotic, destroys without distinguishment.. it cannot tell good from evil, it is non-sentient, neutral.

One of the first things I do if I am thinking of a story through character based first, who is his/her nemesis. Of course, what is the "hero" campaigning for, why is s/he a hero, or story worthy? What makes them special, that signals them out in this world that makes them the main character that is. Thus, from there, I can build from that, and make more ideas for the world. Who does the nemesis worship, why does he want to stop the hero. What higher powers of good and evil are there in this world? (Gods are a good place to start.. religion on a world is easy for people to associate with, and instantly gives readers a common-link to the average day person on that world)

On my biggest project, there is 8 gods, 4 "good", 4 "evil"... One of each of them is more powerful than the rest, so thus, there are two more superior gods, one of evil and good.

One thing to keep in mind is balance.. If you make something too powerful, then readers become skeptical and think, well why doesn't that super powerful being just rule the world?? Thus why I have my gods balanced, good and evil having equal power, in an ever going battle, the only way for nuetrality (I don't believe in a god of nuetrality, as on some fantasy worlds, it is just about the scales of balance)

Anyways, I probably have a lot more to say, but I can't think of anything else at the moment.. except for one more example of balance... I read this in a fantasy authors advice book somewhere.. (something along these lines at least)

"Picture a dragon. One single dragon destroying an entire village, burning it to a charred ruin, eating what few inhabitants weren't too 'well done'. Now, picture that same dragon ten times larger. It would be fun to write about, sure. But where would it live? How would it eat enough to survive? These questions would go through your readers heads too. Moderation, and good descriptions are important to keeping your readers interested. Remembering everything you put into your world, remember what hunts what, balance things out and make things believable even for a make-believe world."

(As I said, something like that)

-Tol

Tolyk, thank you for a very informative and well thought out response. You've given me loads to think about there. I love the idea of a good/evil power struggle (whether or not incorporating Gods).

The thing about the hero and his/her nemesis is good, too. Hmmm, my brain is full of ideas now!

Basically, what I'm thinking of writing is about a world where there is a very much emphasised class structure, much like medieval England. Where the King/Queen and Lords and Masters use and abuse the minions, including sexual acts and so on. But, one of the women in a high place can't bring herself to follow the ways of her people, and she goes undercover, etc, etc. I do want to incorporate some magic into that, too and maybe some mythological type beings. You've given me plenty more to think on there.

Great excerpt and quote in the final paragraph, btw! Very sensible stuff.

Lou

 

[Guest]

Ok, I write a lot of fantasy so here's how I usually do it. Usually I come up with an interesting idea or character and build the world around that. I do this because the world is the most mutable thing in fantasy. Once I have the intriguing characters, I usually come up with where they came from a little to describe why they are as they are. For instance in one work, I have this overly jaded and silent magic-user, so where he comes from ended up making the Middle Ages look like Paradise and had a heavily anti-magic church.

Don't worry about having characters from conflicting areas in a fantasy story too much. Often you can explain why you have a technophile and a magician in the same hero group by having an island or country somewhere else that's more technopunk or by having two continents who evolved differently. One got all the ley lines and became a magic powerhouse and the other didn't and became a technology powerhouse.

I also find it easy to design the world while designing the story a little. The two sort of help shape each other.

Magic in my works tend to be an amoral tool much like science. The good characters may have it but it can be used just as well for evil. I also vary on using heaing and other white magics in stories. Sometimes all that is seen is the destructive magics, other times you see both, sometimes the destructive magic also works as a healing magic and vice versa. It varies personally and I would advise you not to get too wrapped up in traditional views of magic.

Good luck on your work. Fantasy is one of the nicer genres to write in because it is the only free genre. There are no restrictions. Realistic novels have to follow human life, sci-fi is restrained by the laws of science, but fantasy is absolutely free because you can explain away the impossible with a single paragraph. So my main advice is don't restrict yourself, write what you want to, and if you want mythology is good for getting you in the spirit and helping you design allies and enemies and random civilizations and whatnot.

Thank you, Lucifer!

My own thoughts and ideas about even beginning on building up my world closely reflect your thoughts in your first paragraph. I have one pretty well defined character in my mind already, now I just have to work out what the world around her will be like.

I get you about designing the world along with the ideas for the story, I already have very vague ideas for both, as I said in my post above, to Tolyk.

I can tell you have written your post from the voice of experience. I so hear you about not getting wrapped up in "traditional" magic. I want to try to be as inventive as possible, while trying to maintain "believability" within the constraints of my story and my world.

Your last paragraph highlighted exactly why fantasy appeals to me. I don't like to be restricted with what I write and the thought of being free to go wherever I like, and to invent a whole new world, with no traditional and known constraints and boundaries for human behaviour appeals to me greatly.

Thanks, again.

Lou

 

[tolyk]

Your last paragraph highlighted exactly why fantasy appeals to me. I don't like to be restricted with what I write and the thought of being free to go wherever I like, and to invent a whole new world, with no traditional and known constraints and boundaries for human behaviour appeals to me greatly.

One thing I have to state about this, is the fact that yes, the fantasy world is 'free' that the more you stretch away from the boundries of reality the harder it becomes for your readers to connect with what you are writing, no matter how you explain it.

Yeah, you can change all the political systems that human life goes by.. but doing something like saying, we now walk on our hands all the time instead of our feet, and even the best written reason would just be silly.. It might be humourous, but it wouldn't be as serious a piece of writing. (couldn't think of a better example than walking on our hands..you said no traditional and known constraints and boundaries for human behaviour... Well.. some things, like walking on our feet, just make sense.. and readers will feel that way too.. Even if you explained it priorly, reading it, they would feel, no, he wouldn't do that, noone would do that.. Or something like that.. If you understand my meaning. ((I'm also very interested in psychology )) )

 

[Guest]

One thing I have to state about this, is the fact that yes, the fantasy world is 'free' that the more you stretch away from the boundries of reality the harder it becomes for your readers to connect with what you are writing, no matter how you explain it.

Yeah, you can change all the political systems that human life goes by.. but doing something like saying, we now walk on our hands all the time instead of our feet, and even the best written reason would just be silly.. It might be humourous, but it wouldn't be as serious a piece of writing. (couldn't think of a better example than walking on our hands..you said no traditional and known constraints and boundaries for human behaviour... Well.. some things, like walking on our feet, just make sense.. and readers will feel that way too.. Even if you explained it priorly, reading it, they would feel, no, he wouldn't do that, noone would do that.. Or something like that.. If you understand my meaning. ((I'm also very interested in psychology )) )

LOL! Good point!

Yeah, I won't stretch it too much, I do get what you're saying.

Lou

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

One thing I have to state about this, is the fact that yes, the fantasy world is 'free' that the more you stretch away from the boundries of reality the harder it becomes for your readers to connect with what you are writing, no matter how you explain it.

Yeah, you can change all the political systems that human life goes by.. but doing something like saying, we now walk on our hands all the time instead of our feet, and even the best written reason would just be silly.. It might be humourous, but it wouldn't be as serious a piece of writing. (couldn't think of a better example than walking on our hands..you said no traditional and known constraints and boundaries for human behaviour... Well.. some things, like walking on our feet, just make sense.. and readers will feel that way too.. Even if you explained it priorly, reading it, they would feel, no, he wouldn't do that, noone would do that.. Or something like that.. If you understand my meaning. ((I'm also very interested in psychology )) )

I disagree. If you explain it as a new species, a religious act, or an alien species, they will not only swallow it but think "huh, how funny those (monster/religious/aliens) are" and keep reading. That's why I don't give a damn about my readers when I'm writing. They'll only make my works worse. So far this strategy has always paid off and those who read my works seem to enjoy them.

 

[Guest]

I disagree. If you explain it as a new species, a religious act, or an alien species, they will not only swallow it but think "huh, how funny those (monster/religious/aliens) are" and keep reading. That's why I don't give a damn about my readers when I'm writing. They'll only make my works worse. So far this strategy has always paid off and those who read my works seem to enjoy them.

Yep, and now you've said that I've gotta agree with you and go back to my original thoughts. Thank you.

This is all great stuff, thank you all so much!

Off to bed now, still with a mind full of stuff.

Lou

 

[tolyk]

I'm speaking of human beings, and readers being able to connect with them. It generally makes the story more intriquing, and gives you a larger target audience.. This is mostly from some books about how to sell fantasy novels.. and from the advice of some professional editors as well. You want a large audience, who will want to read your works again and again..

I'm not saying you cannot make things up, I'm saying do not go into the realm of the unbelievable. Each person's distinction of that is different however, so that is up to each author to decide how lenient they are going to be. I have a hawk-people that can talk.. they have a beak and bird-like tongue, yet can form human words with it with ease. Believable? Will the readers doubt it? Most likely, but it is fantasy, it is a race, they have to live with it or stop reading. Thats part of my world.

But there are things that I've read that I will smirk at or roll my eyes at in some fantasy short stories, or non-published works... which is why they are not published.

I'm not saying you are wrong, your extent of the belivable is merely probably larger than mine. Or you are really good at convincing people, either way, it matters not. Human nature (according to psychology) indicates that we like what we are familiar with, what we can identify with. Each time we identify with something, it makes us more interested, or makes us feel we have something in common.. Generally it is a tactic used with the main character of the story, to keep the reader interested in the main character, but if you immerse the reader into the entire world, and make them feel at home, yet still surrounded by the fantastical, what have you done but bring them to your world? That is a successful story, in my eyes.

 

[Weird Harold]

Basically, what I'm thinking of writing is about a world where there is a very much emphasised class structure, much like medieval England. Where the King/Queen and Lords and Masters use and abuse the minions, including sexual acts and so on. But, one of the women in a high place can't bring herself to follow the ways of her people, and she goes undercover, etc, etc. I do want to incorporate some magic into that, too and maybe some mythological type beings. You've given me plenty more to think on there.

First, a reference work for you to check out -- The Rivan Codex by David and Leigh Eddings. It's the background material used to create the universe of his bestselling series the Belgariad and the Mallorean.

The Rivan Codex is an example of what goes into building a fantasy world from scratch -- essentially starting with the "big Bang" and designing everything from physics to biological functions from the ground up.

A much more common way of building a fantasy world is what you suggest you're thinking of -- taking a time and place in the real world and adding a few selet fantasy elements to it. i.e. More "world redecorating" than "world building."

In some ways you're looking at more of a "science fiction" world than a "fantasy" world when you take the modification approach; your taking a single premise about the way the world works and exploring the differences it would cause if were fact.

The best way to modify Medieval England into your fantasy world is to study what Medieval England believed about how the world worked and write your story as if they were right.

For example, it was believed that Miracles could be purchased from the Church -- "Good magic" -- and Hexes and Curses could be purchased (or cast out of spite) only by those in league with the Devil -- Bad Magic. That's an example of a magic system that embodies the concept that the magic itself is good or evil, and it's one that is commonly used in Fantasy. In that sort of system any beneficial thing done by a Witch would have to be run through the corrupted wish thread to determine the consequences.

Fairies and Elves are another common feature of Fantasy, and most depictions are either based on Tolkien's groundwork or on Celtic Myth. Again, research into what others -- and what the people of the time your modifying -- believed about mythical creatures is the best way to shape your world. It isn't necessary to follow the traditions exactly, but you do need to know what a knowledgeable Fantasy Fan expects of Fairies, Elves, and Dragons.

My personal preference would be to take a position somewhere between the two extremes I've given so far. Establish the technological level of your Fantasy World and write down the rules of how magic works. Set down the social structure of the society -- draw on a wide variety of sources; Medieval Europe, The Caste System of India, the Samurai of Japan and the Emperors of ancient China, John Norman's GOR, etc -- and build the kind of society that you want your heroine to overturn.

Draw a map so you know where everything is and where she can run to for help (is there a more moderate society in the world to counter-balance your sexist and caste-ridden creation?)

Then start writing your story within the basic framework you've built. When the story is written, go back and adjust the "science" an "society" to fit. (Note, once you publish, you're pretty much stuck with the world you've built.

Anne McCaffrey's PERN is vastly different in 2001 than it was in 1967 when she wrote the first of the series -- her tendency to modify her world a bit with each novel in the series is a bit unsettling if you read all 34 years worth of work back-to-back. It starts out as more "fantasy" than SF and evolves into almost hard, technical SF by the latest book.

You need to cover as many bases and possible flaws as you can before you set your world into stone to avoid inconsistencies if your work is to be more than a single story.

 

[rgraham666]

I've never built a fantasy world.

I did build a world for a game I designed, but that world was ours 60 years from now. That made designing the world fairly easy as all I had to do was build on trends apparent today.

If I was going to do fantasy, I would probably start with a basic outline of characters, then a basic outline of world and history, then fill out characters, then more world, back and forth until both are complete.

Two fantasy 'universes' I have always thought highly of are Michael Moorcock's 'Eternal Champion' and Roger Zelazny's 'Amber'.

 

[SnoopDog]

Ok, so this is a huge topic, but something I've been pondering over the past few days. My husband is a huge fan of the fantasy genre and he's currently reading the Seer King trilogy by Chris Bunch (I just started the first book, too).

We were chatting the other night about writing and so on (he also writes, but very hard hitting thrillers/horror and one lighter novel, so far), and he mentioned to me that he thought I'd be very good at writing within the fantasy genre, particularly novels. The trilogy we are both reading contains a lot of graphic sex, as well as the usual implied stuff found in mainstream fantasy. He was telling me that with my imagination, coupled with my ability to write arousing sex scenes, I could do well in this genre. I'd never even considered it, before he suggested it.

We've been doing a lot of brain-storming since then, but I was just wondering if others, who have written fantasy (in particular novels), had any opinions on the following points.

How do you go about building up your world?

Do you find you come up with the characters first, then build the world around them, or vice versa?

Do you use much magic in your fantasy writing? If so, is it always dark, or do you add lighter shades?

I have so many questions and a lot of research to do, but this whole thing has really got my mind focused on getting back into some "serious" writing.

I know no two answers will be the same, and I should find a way that works for me, through trial and error, but maybe this will spark an interesting and educational discussion, for me, at least.

Thanks, in advance!

Lou

I have nothing but utter respect for authors who are able to create entire worlds, races, languages, etc.

I bow down in front of Frank Herbert, Stephen King and all the others. O fcourse most of all I'd bow down before John Reul Ronald Tolkien (if that is his correct name, not sure) who was THE master in creating a fantasy world.

I myself am no author for that matter but if I had to create my own world I guess I'd start of with the main characters and their people/races. But I would definitely have to write a book for my own, writing down all the rules and different races, people, areas, creatures, etc. so I'll always could referr to the 'bible' of my own world, in order not to make a mistake or continuity error.

But it must be pretty difficult.

Snoopy

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Okay, I have nothing but the greatest respect for Harry Turtledove and JRR Tolkein who make maps of their civilizations and plan every little custom and nuances of their world, but to emulate them...that takes a certain type of personality.

To do that, you need the same professor-esque anal-retentivity that can only come from studying old maps and customs (Turtledove) or playing with languages as a linguistics professor (Tolkein) all day or similar activities. For the rest of the slobs on the market, unless the map is relevant to the story (for instance charting giant wars or marking the avenues of progress on a Tolkein knock-off adventure or listing off the locations and attitudes of rival baronies) then don't make one. It's the characters and actual fantasy that're important to the story. The world is just the fuckin' stage and bends to the author's will and the author's will alone.

Also, the less specific details you use on rivalries, distances, etc. the easier it is to keep track of things and keep reader interest. For instance, McKiernan in his Tolkein knock-off book wasted valuable storytime marking the leagues traveled and which direction and ran into all sorts of boring shit and a few odd location jumps. Whereas Bertin in her Dragonlord books just marked the cities as arrival points far separated and thus was able to move into the meat and bones of her stories quickly and neatly.

 

[tolyk]

Also, the less specific details you use on rivalries, distances, etc. the easier it is to keep track of things and keep reader interest. For instance, McKiernan in his Tolkein knock-off book wasted valuable storytime marking the leagues traveled and which direction and ran into all sorts of boring shit and a few odd location jumps. Whereas Bertin in her Dragonlord books just marked the cities as arrival points far separated and thus was able to move into the meat and bones of her stories quickly and neatly.

That is something I have to agree with there LC, I've not read any of what you have mentioned (except for Tolkiens work, but you didn't actually get into that besides mention his maps), but to start getting into the nitty gritty details about specific distances covered is mundane.. Everyone has generally read enough to know the average walking speed of humans.. or riding speed.. to say it takes 3 days to get from city A to city B is so much easier.. day one passes without event, so sometimes you skip it..

"We traveled in the rain for a day and made camp, had an uneventful and cold, not to mention soggy, dinner then Dandurn took the first watch and we all got some sleep... They woke me up in the morning, I guess they skipped my watch. It was still raining, so we decided to eat our soggy breakfast on the horses and get back onto the road."

Day 1 down in a paragraph.. and thats only for those who feel like mentioning it at all.. thats just one of those boring details that can be skipped so the reader doesn't fall asleep..

Like I am about too, g'night everyone

 

[Alex De Kok]

Lou,

thanks for starting this thread. I'm clinging to your coattails and learning - I need this information, too!

Alex

 

[oggbashan]

Change a little

The trouble with fantasy WORLDS is that the author can do anything.

E E (Doc) Smith's Lensman series is an example. Every time the villains are winning he invents a new weapon. It is rather like two small boys:

'I've got a knife'
'I've got a pistol'
'I've got a rifle'
'I've got a machine gun'
'I've got a tank' and so on...

I have tried writing fantasy where only one thing is changed and the story is about the implication of that change:

Brigit series - Man meets Irish Earth Goddess who has limited powers and needs his help.

Shelacta series - Women use sexual traps to enslave men. Men are chattels and can be won from other women by different traps or can gain immunity...

Tripletit - Man visits planet where the dominant species is apparently very large women with three breasts.

Hannah (and sequel): Ghost(s) can physically impact on living people. 'Maids-in-Waiting' is similar.

All those stories are based on fantasy worlds and except for the changed thing, everything else is as our world. Shelacta required more explanation. I put the explanation at the beginning of the first few stories and then cut and pasted it as an Appendix to the later ones. (Not an original idea - I copied it from J T Edson's 'Dusty Fog' westerns)

George Orwell's 1984 and Huxley's Brave New World are based on extrapolation from their existing world and time. Orwell's 1984 was originally going to be titled '1948' and the technology is that of 1948 slightly improved.

Creating a whole new universe or world is difficult to do well. Heinlein succeeds with 'Glory Road'. The hero doesn't believe in the world(s) he is transferred to and everything has to be explained to him (and therefore to the reader). Terry Brooks does the same with 'Magic Kingdom for Sale/Sold'. The hero has to be told about the properties of the Kingdom and find out some of it the hard way.

IF you are going to create a new world you need to be disciplined and meticulous about it. Everything must follow a logical pattern and must be internally consistent. If Dragons breathe fire, then they always breathe fire, and don't switch to breathing acid. (Unless there is a creature that does breathe acid and looks like a dragon but isn't one and the hero has to find out the difference for him/herself).

I am stalled on my Shelacta series because I began exploring the different relationships between men and women on that planet. As the chapters built up I had subtly changed some of the 'givens' in Chapter 1. I need to edit the lot to bring them into a consistent whole, hinting in Chapter 1 about things not used until Chapter 9. My world is turning out to be a little different from the first ideas.

Hope this helps.

Og

 

[Guest]

WOW! There's been some more great answers in this thread, thank you, everyone!

I'm gonna read through it all again later and take my time to respond, once I've got my kiddies to bed.

Lou

 

[Xelebes]

Whenever I create a fantasy world, I start by drawing a map. Like a geographical map. Then I start naming the places. Depending on how I name the places, that's how I start giving names to characters and titles to objects and magic and all that.

From there on, I start writing the actual story(ies).

That's how I do it, and it can get pretty indepth that way too... it usually keeps me intrigued long enough to get somewhere.

Though I haven't written fantasy stories in a long time.

 

[Black Tulip]

Lou,

I have two novels under way, not necessarily for Lit, and for both I started out with characters. I then built the world around it, like Og said more remodelling. I searched for info on flora and fauna and climate. Considering what I could use to enhance the drama in the story. Even though it's a fantasy world I try to avoid having coconuts in a mid European type of forest.

Then I made a map so I would not get tangled in two days travel and two weeks in the next chapter. Things like that.

I made lists of the people, their names, their professions, what they look like, what character traits are important to the story. And I made a kind of diagram to visualize what the connections between the characters are or will be.
All that could change during the course of the story, but then you know what to alter.
I changed the eyecolor on a main character once. LOL
That was 275 pages of search and replace.

When I started writing I found it necessary to make a list of new things too. I invented names for food and drinks, I needed to add stuff about religion, social structures, customs, trees, plants, animals, clothes, ethnic specifics.
Writing along I found I created the lesser details and I needed to keep track of all my little inventions. Hence the bundle of lists in the background.

It sounds more than it is, just one word document with a lot of headings really.

Don't forget to have fun. And when you have enough to start you'll know. You won't be able to ignore the urge to make it happening.

 

[Marsipanne]

I think fantasy novels can be split into two very general groups:
1) world-building
2) character-driven

I think it's important to decide whether your novel (or series of novels) is one which is written to reveal a world, with the characters as portents through which you see, or whether the character is central with the world less important. Take two authors, Terry Goodkind and Robert Jordan. They write extremely similar stuff, so similar the TG has been called a plagiariser. However, TG is distinctly character-driven and RJ world-building. Therefore, despite apparent similarities, I love Terry goodkind, but I can't stand Robert Jordan (gave up about 4 books into the wheel of time series). This, I think, is all a matter of taste.

This is not to say that TG lacks world-building, or RJ lacks interesting characters. It's just that each has taken more time and energy to focus on one particular part. I don't know whether it is possible to equally balance the two. To me, it seems that if there are strong characters they almost inevitably overshadow the world-building aspect.

I've only written one fantasy novel (first of trilogy though) and it's set in the one fantasy world I've created. I didn't as much decide everything about it straight away as letting it develop and incorporating new ideas constnatly. What's best, I think, when it comes to world-building, is to build several different worlds independently and then mix them all together using all the best ideas from each world.

 

[cantdog]

I prefer the character-driven sort.

I lose interest and indeed have wasted a lot of money losing interest in massive, titanic forces contending. What is interesting, what is important is the human mind and the quality and scope of human interactions.

Titanic forces amount to personifications of principles. You can have one principle triumph over another, or attain an equi8librium with another, even better, in a far more satisfactory way if it happens in small between the characters. Magic can be cool, but I want real limits on it.

It's like the original book "Dead Zone."

A completely normal fellow suddenly, by a fluke, developed just one thing that was only a little beyond the ordinary. The rest of the book is his struggle to come to terms with the effects it has. He becomes a pariah, they fire him from his job, he has to change his name and move out of state, but the gift remains, and it has its own imperatives. If you do after all know that something will happen if no one intervenes, don't you have an obligation to intervene? Since you are the only one who possibly can know?

That scale of supernormal power is fully enough to push a plot along, and bring up more than enough cosmic issues (without needing warring gods) to make a fine tale.

Keep it small in scale and let us believe it. If you have a race of Dwarves or something, you have a vehicle for satire as well. Look at Dean Swift's "flappers" which function, as our layers of secretaries and receptionists do, to control access to the great man. The perspective of being an outsider lets one cast from a different angle a revealing glance at phenomena which are too utterly familiar in our own everyday context.

That kind of thing, Lilliputians, Yahoos, Dwarves, or pictsies, lends color to the thing too.

Glen Cook.

cantdog