BTW: Lest We Forget!!!

artful

*His eyes as an Eagle's*
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Posts
4,364
KEEP THIS MOVING ACROSS AMERICA ARE THEY HONORING A TRAITOR?

This is for all the kids born in the 70's that do not remember this, and didn't have to bear the burden, that our fathers, mothers, and older brothers and sisters had to bear. Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the "100 Women of the Century." Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still countless others have never known how Ms. Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country but specific men who served and sacrificed during Vietnam.

The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot. The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat. In 1968, the former Commandant of the USAF Survival School was a POW in Ho Lo Prison-the *"Hanoi Hilton."* Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJ's, he was ordered to describe for a visiting American "Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane treatment" he'd received. He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and dragged away.

During the subsequent beating, he fell forward upon the camp Commandant's feet, which sent that
officer berserk. In '78, the AF Col. still suffered from double vision (which permanently ended his flying days) from the Vietnamese Col.'s frenzied application of a wooden baton.

From 1963-65, Col. Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4E's). He spent 6 years in the "Hilton"- the first three of which he was "missing in action". His wife lived on faith that he was still alive. His group, too, got the cleaned, fed, clothed routine in preparation for a "peace
delegation" visit.

They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world that they still survived.
Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with his SSN on it, in the palm of his hand. When
paraded before Ms. Fonda and a cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and
asking little encouraging snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?" and "Are you
grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?"

Believing this HAD to be an 'act', they each palmed her their sliver of paper. She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the line and once the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turned to the officer in charge and handed him the little pile of papers.

Three men died from the subsequent beatings. Col. Carrigan was almost number four but he survived, which is the only reason we know about her actions that day.

I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and was captured by the North
Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in 1968, and held for over 5 years. I spent 27 months
in solitary confinement, one year in a cage in Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in
Hanoi.

My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near the
Cambodian border.

At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170 lbs.) We were Jane
Fonda's "war criminals."

When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be
willing to meet with Jane Fonda. I said yes, for I would like to tell her about the real
treatment we POWs received different from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and
parroted by Jane Fonda, as "humane and lenient."
Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky
floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a large amount of steel placed on my hands, and
beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped.

I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours after I was released. I
asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She did not answer me.This does not exemplify someone who should be honored as part of "100 Years of Great Women."

Lest we forget..."100 years of great women" should never include a traitor whose hands are covered with the blood of so many patriots. There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in blatant treason, is one of them.

Please take the time to forward to as many people as you possibly can. It will eventually end
up on her computer and she needs to know that we will never forget.

 
I agree. I may not be old enough to remember that but my father made sure I knew about it when I was old enough. Anytime a movie came on with her in it or she hit the news he would tell me of the things she did. My father was in WWII and my sister is now in the Army serving our country.

They are the true hero's. People that have served our country with honor and pride.:heart:
 
Thanks artful.

I have read this before and forwarded it everyone that I know.

What Jane Fonda did during the years of the Vietnam war is a disgrace, and the public need to be reminded of it.

She was a traitor to her own people. She should be locked away... not honoured.

Tis a good thing you are doing here my friend, by posting this. I will watch the thread myself and bump it whenever needed.

The monster known as Jane Fonda must never be forgotten for what she really is..
 
Jane.. You miserable Slut!

As an American that served my coundry for over 22 years and was around when all this happend, I am discusted..

I want to know who..is honoring her.. so that I can start an email campagne to them to voive my opinion.

artful..... who is doing this?
 
This needs to be read!

Bump...

Hey, artful, did you post this on the General Board also??
 
Re: This needs to be read!

sxychick21 said:
Bump...

Hey, artful, did you post this on the General Board also??
No I haven't, but I encourage each of you who read this, to copy and paste whereever you may wish to.
I feel sure it is MORE powerfully accepted when it is posted by OTHER patriots,...than just a one person campaign. So please, take it and post it on the GB and anywhere else it might gain the publics attention.

Hman48, I don't know who the originator of this was, and I feel the EVENT has already taken place,
but I have FRIENDS who can TESTIFY to many other hurtfull and damaging things she did as pertains to the Viet Nam War,...and YES to all of you who think otherwise,...it WAS a *WAR*!!!

One other comment,...I knew their were patriots in Literotica,...and I know there are MAQNY more out there,...I just hope they get a chance to read THIS,...and OTHER truths as to how she committed ~TREASON~and legally got away with it!!!:rose:
 
~ bumpety bump ~

Please read this people... don't let Jane Fonda's actions be forgotten.

Read it, and talk to your friends about it... spread the word.
 
Thanks for the wake up call Art..I was so,mewhat familar with Jane Fondas actions in nam but never have I heard what you have told it makes me sick what she did to those poor guys who handed her the pieces of paper...I swear I will never watch a movie with her in it again which will be easy since I hate all of her movies anyway..In my book she is scum and should not be honored for anything...Thanks again Art this has been an eye opener:mad:
 
Here's some facts:

1) THIS IS OLD!!!! The special aired in APRIL, 1999 and was hosted by Barbara Walters. Link from About.com

2) About.com, which has EXCELLENT resources for Urban Legends and Folklore, has a three page article about the email artful posted here. You can link it here Some of the hilights:

Claim: Fonda betrayed POWs by turning over slips of paper they gave her to their captors. POWs were beaten and died as a result.

Status: FALSE.


"It's a figment of somebody's imagination," says Ret. Col. Larry Carrigan, who was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967. He has no idea why the story was attributed to him. "I never met Jane Fonda," he told me. It goes without saying he never handed her a secret message.

He confessed that he did see Fonda once while he was a POW – on film.


Claim: A POW spit at Fonda, for which he was brutally beaten.

Status: FALSE.


This story is attributed in the email to former Air Force pilot Jerry Driscoll, who says it's false and did not originate from him.


Claim: POWs were beaten for refusing to cooperate or meet with Fonda during her visit.

Status: TRUE.


Anyway, I just wanted to clear up some of the things written here. While Jane Fonda is no hero, she also should not have lies spread about her. NOBODY deserves that.

And since this special aired 3 YEARS AGO (and was based on a book from the Ladies Home Journal) you can stop forwarding this message around the internet too. It's a little late...
 
O.K I am a little on the confused side now but havew an interest in this now and shall look into it further ..Thanks to you and art I find myself wanting to get the whole story...Pokerman glad you posted those statements because it does suck to have lies spread about you...Have a great day:)
 
Thank you all for reading this thread!

I posted this thinking it was true. I don't know that it ISN"T true,...but as I said earlier, I have friends that will testify to other hurtful and damaging things she did during the Viet Nam War. Personally,...I know NOTHING of what she actually did,...I was not there,...I did not see! I venture to say at this point,...that printed word versus printed word,...may not be equal in value, due to the source it comes from, and I would NOT however, knowingly spread lies about anyone, but if ONE article says one thing, and another says opposite,...where lies the truth? We may never KNOW the truth,..."BUT" she DID make a PUBLIC APOLOGY for THINGS she DID do during that war!!! If nothing else,...I would hope this thread would cause men and women both to speak up,...for the *TRUTH* will stand alone!
**************************************************
This a biased copy from the LINK as given above!!!

The rumors (see next page) center around Fonda's tour of North Vietnam in 1972, during which she cozied up to the enemy, posing for photo ops with communist troops and broadcasting anti-American propaganda over Radio Hanoi.

During the same trip she participated in a staged press conference with American POWs, the purpose of which was to demonstrate that they were not being mistreated by their captors. "YEARS" later
when the released POWs described the torture and degradation they really did suffer at the hands of the North Vietnamese, Fonda called them "hypocrites and liars."


Those facts are not under dispute. Fonda's behavior at that time, considered treasonous by some, earned her the nickname "Hanoi Jane" among the veterans and POWs of the Vietnam War, some of
whom hate her to this day.

Since the '70s Fonda has revamped her image several times over, rededicating herself to her acting career, becoming a fitness guru in the early '80s, and marrying billionaire Ted Turner in 1991. In 1988 she delivered a televised apology to Vietnam veterans and their families, a gesture that didn't mollify everyone but established some
distance between the new Fonda and old Fonda, whose actions, she finally admitted, had been "thoughtless and careless."

As the '90s progressed Fonda's past was less frequently brought up as an issue and seemed to dwindle in importance – until this year, that is, when Barbara Walters chose to honor the actress in a TV special called "A Celebration: 100 Years of Great Women." The announcement of the program – which aired in April 1999 and did honor Jane Fonda – prompted an instant outcry from veterans and
ex-POWs, many of whom vented their indignation via the Internet.

Angry recriminations were posted in newsgroups, published in newsletters and on Web pages, and shared by email.

Apparently bits and pieces of these texts, along with a few shameless fabrications, were cobbled together by persons unknown to create the "Hanoi Jane" diatribe which still circulates today. Parts
of it are true and parts of it are false.
**************************************************
Now, I ask for the truth to*STAND*,...sure,... there were angry retorts from the Viet Nam Vets,...and those that cared about them! I also ask each of you to THINK,...could there have been a MASSIVE *PUBLIC RELATIONS* effort funded to change her IMAGE? Again, I don't know! I wasn't there, but as of yet,...no one has CONVINCED me I have been spreading lies. I do know one thing,...I side with the VETS who were hurt by her actions,...even were it only her act of calling them, "hypocrites and liars!"
 
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Don't worry about it, artful. I don't think anyone here would willingly spread lies about people. And like the about.com article says, certain things she said and did are NOT in dispute. But others in the e-mail are pure fiction.

Personally, I trust the fine folks at about.com more than an e-mail that's been around for 3 years and has been around the world many times. Or is The Gap really going to send me a $25 gift certifcate for every 5 people I forward their e-mail to? And is there really going to be a 5 cent tax on every email sent in the US? And African-Americans are really going to lose their right to vote in 2007?

A simple rule I always follow, is search before I post. Usually stuff like this (and the hundreds of virus warnings I get) are all hoaxes, and a simple 30-second search at google or yahoo will tell you that. :)

Speaking of which, if you get an e-mail telling you to delete the file Jdbgmgr.exe from your hard drive...that's a hoax, too.
 
POKERMAN

I welcome you, and all others who want to express their thoughts on this thread. I DO believe in FREE SPEECH! Free speech is a most useful tool to shedding light on the *TRUTH*. Like I have said before,...I personally don't know a thing,...but unlike so many others,...I don't think ANY publishing concern can be trusted,...not even ME!
Yep,...I do have an axe to grind with Jane,...and I would hope that ALL patriots would! Are they lies or truth? I don't know,...but I certainly don't think she should be *HONORED*!
 
artful,

Calm down and read what I said.

"While Jane Fonda is no hero, she also should not have lies spread about her. NOBODY deserves that." Even the article I posted said (as you quoted) "....Those facts are not under dispute. Fonda's behavior at that time, considered treasonous by some, earned her the nickname "Hanoi Jane" among the veterans and POWs of the Vietnam War, some of
whom hate her to this day."

But some of those 'facts' in the e-mail you posted, ARE lies. You might not like the fact that I showed that what you posted contained inaccurate information, so you try to trash the site I linked to. About.com is as reliable as any other site on the internet. They do a lot of research before they post things as hoaxes or urban legends. Or would you just not believe them because, unlike the NY Times, they don't have a print version? Or because they contradict what you posted? Or are you embarassed that you posted something thats over 3-years old?

Here's some free advice: If you get something warning you about the impending Millenium Bug, that's old news too. :rolleyes:
 
POKERMAN

Evidently you only care to read what YOU want to,...but that's YOUR privilege,...and I welcome you,...and OTHERS that believe as you do to post on this thread. Meanwhile you may want to READ what I wrote!!!
 
i did read what you wrote:
I venture to say at this point,...that printed word versus printed word,...may not be equal in value, due to the source it comes from, and I would NOT however, knowingly spread lies about anyone, but if ONE article says one thing, and another says opposite,...where lies the truth?

as of yet,...no one has COVINCED me I have been spreading lies.

I don't think ANY publishing concern can be trusted,...

So you are willing to believe the first thing you read, that is the original email, more than what I posted to refute some of what you said.


What would it take to convince you that the stories attributed to Larry Carrigan and Jerry Driscoll never happened? Besides them being quoted in an article on a legitimate site like about.com?

Who about.com is can be found
here.
 
POKERMAN

Pokerman said:
i did read what you wrote:


So you are willing to believe the first thing you read, that is the original email, more than what I posted to refute some of what you said.


What would it take to convince you that the stories attributed to Larry Carrigan and Jerry Driscoll never happened? Besides them being quoted in an article on a legitimate site like about.com?

Who about.com is can be found
here.
I sincerely doubt ANYTHING could convince me,...however,...I DO recognise the possibility. I will say this,...YOU certainly won't,...LMAO! Have fun!!! You are not posting to correct a TRUTH about Jane Fonda,...you are POSTING to feed your ego,...but that's ok,...we ALL gotta ego to feed,...it's just that SOME egos have a VORACIOUS appetite,...they THINK they ALWAYS have to have the last word,...you have made your belief very clearly known,...now why don't you back off me ? You believe one thing,...I choose to believe another,...you've made your point,...what do you want from me ? LOL
 
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To All The Patriots

Who read this thread!

THE LADY

I wonder what she thought
As she stood there, strong and tall.
She couldn't turn away,
She was forced to watch it all.

Did she long to offer comfort
As her country bled?
With her arm forever frozen
High above her head.

She could not shield her eyes
She could not hide her face
She just stared across the water
Keeping Freedom's place.

The smell of smoke and terror
Somehow reduced her size
So small within the harbor
But still we recognized...

How dignified and beautiful
On a day so many died
I wonder what she thought,
And I know she must have cried. :rose:
 
Guys I was hoping to see a good debate about this because now I am interested in it but now it is turning into a pissing match and noone wins ..You both seem intelligent and have both made some exellent comments hell you even agreed with each other on some points..I hope you two can give more info on this it is very interesting and I will try to dig up some info on it also..Take care guys and have a great day..:)
 
Yeah, ol' Jane had her own cadence we used while I was in the Army. Forget most of it. Wasn't very flattering. This was back in 1989 and she still wasn't popular with the lifers(career soldiers).

Protesting is fine, as long as it doesn't effect the mission of the soldiers and the people we are supporting. War sucks, but it is a fact of life. I didn't enjoy the fact that I participated in the killing of the opposing forces in the Gulf War, but I joined the Army and I did what was expected of me. Support for soldiers should be always, complain to the policy makers if you disagree with war.
 
PATRIOTS

I appreciate anyone posting their views on the subject matter, whether pro or con. Of course the women of the past 100 years is old news, and so is all the things that were described in the posted letter at the top of the thread. Jane Fonda is old news. I just don't want us to forget it.

Forgiving is one thing,...forgetting is another!!!
 
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