Broncomania

[eyer]

You would think so. But I guess Elway was pretty convincing.

But 1 bowl is not very good considering his 'status'. His playoff record isn't great considering his 'status'.
If he wins this year, some legitimacy. But he won't get anywhere until he can beat Brady in the playoffs (only did it once before).

You're crackin' me up, homey: you post, "But he won't get anywhere until he can beat Brady in the playoffs"...

...and then immediately mention he's already done that.

You remember the Patriots perfect season stab that only missed by losing in the Super Bowl?

Brady missed the entire next season and the Patriots still finished 11-5 with 7th-round draftee Matt Cassel starting the first 15 games of his career, while leading NE to just a tiebreaker away from the AFC East crown...

...the 2010 Colts were a 10-6 wild card playoff team; when Manning missed the entire next season - 2011 - the Colts could only manage 2-14 without him.

There's a reason why Manning has already been named NFL MVP a record 4 times...

...and why there's no doubt he'll be named the NFL's MVP for a 5th time for this season.

Here's what an expert has to say on the issue...

...Rodney Harrison was a Pro Bowl defensive back for the Patriots:

I think Peyton has been so unfairly judged because he really didn't have that defense over the years like Tom. Tom had a lot of veteran players, a lot of really good defenses, where if he didn't play particularly well, he knew that he had a defense with a lot of veteran players that could save him. Whereas, Peyton didn't really have that advantage. If Peyton was on our team, I think we could have easily won three Super Bowls, no doubt about it.

 

[stickwork]

You're crackin' me up, homey

You guys are homies?

 

[argh1032]

Yeah he beat Brady once. Brady beat him 3 times.....so....yeah, I can mention that no problem.
Pulling out all these stats doesn't mean a thing. It's still only 1 ring.

 

[eyer]

Yeah he beat Brady once. Brady beat him 3 times.....so....yeah, I can mention that no problem.

Seriously, stop it - I'm dying here...

...Brady and Manning have only met a total of 3 times in the playoffs, and Brady currently holds the advantage at 2-1. I'm hoping they meet again in about 3 weeks in Denver to play for who gets to represent the AFC in the Super Bowl.

Pulling out all these stats doesn't mean a thing. It's still only 1 ring.

If Manning had been New England's QB with Belichick his coach, Peyton's teams would have more "rings" than Brady's have - no one but blinded fan hacks seriously thinks otherwise...

...just as there is no comparison when you match-up Manning and Brady individually at their position, which is what Manning's 5 MVPs to Brady's 2 is all about.

 

[argh1032]

Had been and would have been are discounted in a discussion because it's fantasized. It didn't happen so its purely conjecture.

And MVPs are great sure....but it's superbowls that rule. Thats it. You can talk stats all you want, but its about rings. And Manning is deficient in that regard.

Btw, I'm a 49ers fan. So for me it was Montana then Young. So....you can sit back with all your Manning talk about being great at this and great at that. I'll just enjoy my championships with the 49thers. Thank you.

 

[eyer]

Btw, I'm a 49ers fan. So for me it was Montana then Young. So....you can sit back with all your Manning talk about being great at this and great at that. I'll just enjoy my championships with the 49thers. Thank you.

"my championships"?

Are you Dwight Clark?

Too friggin' funny...

BTW:

Have you ever heard Bill Walsh talk about Peyton Manning?

 

[stickwork]

Seriously, stop it - I'm dying here...

...Brady and Manning have only met a total of 3 times in the playoffs, and Brady currently holds the advantage at 2-1. I'm hoping they meet again in about 3 weeks in Denver to play for who gets to represent the AFC in the Super Bowl.



If Manning had been New England's QB with Belichick his coach, Peyton's teams would have more "rings" than Brady's have - no one but blinded fan hacks seriously thinks otherwise...

...just as there is no comparison when you match-up Manning and Brady individually at their position, which is what Manning's 5 MVPs to Brady's 2 is all about.

Your argument, if I understand it, has been that PM w/Brady's D and/or Coach, would easily have more rings than Brady. And that PM is better player b/c his reg season stats and MVP`s outnumber Brady`s.
However, by the same token, Brady has been in an offense and coaching scheme that relies primarily on not making mistakes, throwing short passes to side or slot, etc. And BB coaches pure team/win.
Even so, Brady has had record passing stats. And titles. Over the years, were he the only good part of the Pats, I would guess he'd have more MVPs and greater passing stats (stats a/la Warren Moon).

So, your argument cuts both ways. Which is fine.

 

[argh1032]

They are my championships, as a fan of the team I can claim that. Do I claim 'my rings'. No. I didn't earn the rings or play for them or that.
I notice you pick apart those two words but have no rebuttal for all this Bronco/Manning talk as soon as I mentioned the 49ers.
Got nothing on that eh?
Oh and Bill Walsh saying great things about Manning...so?
Means nothing....it's still only 1 ring.

 

[stickwork]

They are my championships, as a fan of the team I can claim that. Do I claim 'my rings'. No. I didn't earn the rings or play for them or that.
I notice you pick apart those two words but have no rebuttal for all this Bronco/Manning talk as soon as I mentioned the 49ers.
Got nothing on that eh?
Oh and Bill Walsh saying great things about Manning...so?
Means nothing....it's still only 1 ring.

Bill Walsh is a brilliant guy, but he was an early burnout and can be kind of a douchebag. So his opinion of a current player isn't exactly the word of God.
Montana was amazing. He was frightfully calm/unemotional. A bit like Unitas, but w/o the chip on shoulder.
Until the Brady/Manning "era" I always thought a great QB had to be w/o emotion.

 

[argh1032]

Bill Walsh is a brilliant guy, but he was an early burnout and can be kind of a douchebag. So his opinion of a current player isn't exactly the word of God.
Montana was amazing. He was frightfully calm/unemotional. A bit like Unitas, but w/o the chip on shoulder.
Until the Brady/Manning "era" I always thought a great QB had to be w/o emotion.

True somewhat about the emotion. You can be emotional, if controlled. e.g. Terry Bradshaw

But Troy Aikman was very controlled emotionally, almost robotic. 3 rings later....

 

[eyer]

Your argument, if I understand it, has been that PM w/Brady's D and/or Coach, would easily have more rings than Brady. And that PM is better player b/c his reg season stats and MVP`s outnumber Brady`s.
However, by the same token, Brady has been in an offense and coaching scheme that relies primarily on not making mistakes, throwing short passes to side or slot, etc. And BB coaches pure team/win.
Even so, Brady has had record passing stats. And titles. Over the years, were he the only good part of the Pats, I would guess he'd have more MVPs and greater passing stats (stats a/la Warren Moon).

No, you don't understand my argument...

...which is, simply, that Peyton Manning is a better quarterback than Tom Brady.

The only counter to that has been Brady's 3 SB rings to Manning's 1...

...which is the only reason I brought the team aspect into it.

You look at NE's 5 SB appearances with Brady and the 3 wins have benefited from vastly better NE defenses than the noticeably weaker NE defenses in their 2 loses...

...same thing with the Colts' 2 SB appearances with Manning: Indy's 2006 defense started really coming on toward the end of the regular season and really shined all the way through that SB win, whereas Indy's 2009 defense was also considerably weaker.

The #1 rated 2013 Bronco offense has scored more points than any team in NFL history, while the 2013 Denver defense is rated #22...

...what do you think the odds would be for these Broncos to win this SB if there defense was top 10?

But, again, my argument concerns who is the best quarterback...

What are the individual statistics that you'd say are the best evidence of proving the best quarterback who has ever played the game?

 

[stickwork]

True somewhat about the emotion. You can be emotional, if controlled. e.g. Terry Bradshaw

But Troy Aikman was very controlled emotionally, almost robotic. 3 rings later....

I remember watcing one of those Suoer Bowl films - John Fucenda/Frozen Tundra shit, and they had one of Montana's linemen on, and he was talking about the SB against CIN when they came back to win on the last drive. And the lineman is describing his feelings and the drama, and the anxiety he felt when it was time for the offense to go on the field for the last drive and a chance to win the Championship, and he says that Montana sidled up to him. And Montana says "Hey, man", and he says "yeah?", expecting some manner of dramatic and/or strategic speech from his QB.

Instead Montana points him to a spot in the crowd behind them. Montana asks him, "see that?". Meanwhile the lineman can barely function, he's so nervous and his thoughts are racing, and he obliges his QB and says "yes, ok, Joe, I see...".
And Montana says: "that's John Candy, sitting right there!".

And then he runs onto the field and..

you know the rest.

 

[argh1032]

Great story

John Candy was the man. I knew him when I was a kid. He went to highschool 1 mile from my home. I liked him in SCTV and Uncle Buck....can't go wrong with Uncle Buck!

 

[eyer]

They are my championships, as a fan of the team I can claim that.Do I claim 'my rings'. No. I didn't earn the rings or play for them or that.

You didn't "earn" the "championships" or "play for them" either, wannabe...

I notice you pick apart those two words but have no rebuttal for all this Bronco/Manning talk as soon as I mentioned the 49ers.
Got nothing on that eh?

Now you're going to champion Joe Montana and/or Steve Young as better quarterbacks than Peyton Manning?

Really? How? By those "championships" of yours?

(You're killing me again...)

Oh and Bill Walsh saying great things about Manning...so?
Means nothing....it's still only 1 ring.

There's only one quarterback who's ever played the game that has better significant position stats than Peyton Manning...

...and your "championships" boys aren't even close.

Bill Walsh is a brilliant guy, but he was an early burnout and can be kind of a douchebag. So his opinion of a current player isn't exactly the word of God.

A guy died and went to heaven...

...meeting Saint Peter at the pearly gates, he glimpsed off in the distance a football player dressed in the #18 Bronco blue and orange tossing perfect touchdown passes to an assortment of receivers.

"Wait a minute," the guy began incredulously, "Peyton Manning died?"

"Nah," replied Saint Pete. "That's God. He just thinks he's Peyton Manning."

 

[stickwork]

No, you don't understand my argument...

...which is, simply, that Peyton Manning is a better quarterback than Tom Brady.

The only counter to that has been Brady's 3 SB rings to Manning's 1...

...which is the only reason I brought the team aspect into it.

You look at NE's 5 SB appearances with Brady and the 3 wins have benefited from vastly better NE defenses than the noticeably weaker NE defenses in their 2 loses...

...same thing with the Colts' 2 SB appearances with Manning: Indy's 2006 defense started really coming on toward the end of the regular season and really shined all the way through that SB win, whereas Indy's 2009 defense was also considerably weaker.

The #1 rated 2013 Bronco offense has scored more points than any team in NFL history, while the 2013 Denver defense is rated #22...

...what do you think the odds would be for these Broncos to win this SB if there defense was top 10?

But, again, my argument concerns who is the best quarterback...

What are the individual statistics that you'd say are the best evidence of proving the best quarterback who has ever played the game?

It's a team game and nowadays a very complicated one, despite or in spite of the old hacks crying about fundamentals.
As to what makes a great QB, or even the best (which is just opinion) I don't put great faith in stats. Some QB stats are "era" related, or team-related. Nowadays the D can barely touch a receiver (or a QB). Many QBs had great stats b/c they were the entire offense, if not the team. Other QB`s never had a decent receiver, or blocking.

I think Brady has played well with bad offenses, bad defenses, and good ones of both. Yes, he has always had a good coach, the only constant, but the coach doesn't throw the ball, much less physically and mentally make the plays w/each such offense, defense. So, I think Brady is up there.

In my opinion, Unitas was the best ever. But that's just my opinion.

 

[eyer]

And, just to make the pot a bit sweeter:

If Manning leads the Broncos to this season's SB win...

...he'll become the only QB in NFL history to win the SB with two different teams.

And, if the Broncos are 2013 NFL champs...

...that'll also mean that no other QB in NFL history has had a season like Manning will have had - no question about it.

I believe they call it a class of your own...

...when nobody else has accomplished what you have.

 

[argh1032]

Dude you are seriously deluded.

Manning and his teams have been getting out performed in the playoffs, when it counts!
I'll give you reg. season...but who cares about that.

Whereas lots of other teams with whomever their QB is, has done better. Roethlisbeger even has more rings then Manning, Peyton's brother even has more rings. ha!

Tell you what. All your talk is about the Broncos and Manning and yatta yatta yatta. I bet you made similar claims last season until they choked in the playoffs.

Lets agree to disagree for now. If you are right and the Broncos win the superbowl this year you can tell me to my face I was wrong and you were right. If they don't win, then it's vice versa.
But all your stats and claims and this and that mean jack until he/they win the championship.

 

[eyer]

It's a team game and nowadays a very complicated one, despite or in spite of the old hacks crying about fundamentals.
As to what makes a great QB, or even the best (which is just opinion) I don't put great faith in stats. Some QB stats are "era" related, or team-related. Nowadays the D can barely touch a receiver (or a QB). Many QBs had great stats b/c they were the entire offense, if not the team. Other QB`s never had a decent receiver, or blocking.

I think Brady has played well with bad offenses, bad defenses, and good ones of both. Yes, he has always had a good coach, the only constant, but the coach doesn't throw the ball, much less physically and mentally make the plays w/each such offense, defense. So, I think Brady is up there.

In my opinion, Unitas was the best ever. But that's just my opinion.

So you rely on your opinion much more than actual stats?

 

[stickwork]

So you rely on your opinion much more than actual stats?

I'm pretty sure that's what I wrote. Ha. Not trying to be a dick. No fisticuffs anymore.
I admit, it's personal. It's an opinion based upon success over time, at a certain level of play, faced w/adversity, in an era where passing wasn't the focus, leadership, knowledge of the game, "clutch" success, success at the highest levels etc.

 

[eyer]

Lets agree to disagree for now. If you are right and the Broncos win the superbowl this year you can tell me to my face I was wrong and you were right. If they don't win, then it's vice versa. But all your stats and claims and this and that mean jack until he/they win the championship.

By your "my championships" reckoning, then...

...Brady's best year as a quarterback in 2007, when he broke Manning's season passing TD record and the Patriots went undefeated all the way to the SB, didn't "mean jack" because they didn't win the championship, right?

But, I'll tell you what I'll do...

...I'm putting $20 on the table right now that says even if the Broncos win the SB, you'll just argue it still doesn't matter 'cause Manning has only 2 rings which doesn't compare to your championships.

We got a bet?

 

[argh1032]

I will posit that if Manning were to win this year that he is up there as one of the greatest QBs ever. Not THE greastest as I have my own personal bias as to who is the best but I'm not championing that cause.
You can put your $20 away. Pretty silly to make an internet bet for money on a forum.

 

[stickwork]

By your "my championships" reckoning, then...

...Brady's best year as a quarterback in 2007, when he broke Manning's season passing TD record and the Patriots went undefeated all the way to the SB, didn't "mean jack" because they didn't win the championship, right?

But, I'll tell you what I'll do...

...I'm putting $20 on the table right now that says even if the Broncos win the SB, you'll just argue it still doesn't matter 'cause Manning has only 2 rings which doesn't compare to your championships.

We got a bet?

I'm on that. What are the terms again. Where can we lay off some of this action. I need to make calls. How public is this board. Odds, what are they?

 

[stickwork]

You can put your $20 away. Pretty silly to make an internet bet for money on a forum.

Dont fuck with the action.

 

[eyer]

I will posit that if Manning were to win this year that he is up there as one of the greatest QBs ever.

And I'm sure he'll feel honored knowing you consider him anywhere close to being in the same league as you and your "championships"...

 

[argh1032]

Dude you are messed up with your head so far up your ass it's a wonder you don't suffocate.

Get off your high horse and take the comment for what it is as it relates to what you were inferring. Or are you so stuck that you can't comment on anything other then my posting of championships.

Can't wait till Feb, if the Broncos make it that far.