British Troops Pulling out of Basra
- Thread starter neonlyte
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Jenny_Jackson
Psycho Bitch
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And the middle finger wave at GW from the new Prime Minister of Englandneonlyte said:
oggbashan
Dying Truth seeker
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neonlyte said:
They have been planning to do that for months. Their other base is vulnerable to mortar attack and has been a provocation to the insurgents. Basra, along with most of Southern Iraq, has being handed over to Iraqis. Whether those Iraqis are capable of maintaining order? They think they can once the British troops are not so visible.
If the Iraqis can't run their own country, then the whole Allied plan is fucked.
Wait and see.
Og
Jenny_Jackson
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Like we didn't already know the Bush Administration and Iraq were clusterfucks?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6974611.stm
Last Updated: Sunday, 2 September 2007, 13:07 GMT 14:07 UK
E-mail this to a friend Printable version
Fresh UK attack on US Iraq policy
Maj Gen Tim Cross said Donald Rumsfeld ignored warnings
A second key British general has criticised US post-war policy in Iraq.
Maj Gen Tim Cross, who was the most senior UK officer involved in post-war planning, told the Sunday Mirror US policy was "fatally flawed".
Maj Gen Cross said: "We were all very concerned about the lack of detail that had gone into the post-war plan."
His comments came after Gen Sir Mike Jackson, head of the Army during the invasion, told the Daily Telegraph US policy was "intellectually bankrupt".
The Ministry of Defence played down the comments by Sir Mike, now retired, saying he was entitled to express his opinion on his former job.
'Lack of detail'
In an interview published on Saturday, Sir Mike said a claim by the then US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld that US forces "don't do nation-building" was "nonsensical".
Maj Gen Cross, also retired, said he had raised serious concerns about potential post-war problems in Iraq with Mr Rumsfeld as well.
But he said Mr Rumsfeld "dismissed" or "ignored" the warnings.
"Right from the very beginning we were all very concerned about the lack of detail that had gone into the post-war plan and there is no doubt that Rumsfeld was at the heart of that process," he said.
There is no doubt that with hindsight the US post-war plan was fatally flawed and many of us sensed that at the time
Maj Gen Tim Cross
"I had lunch with Rumsfeld in February in Washington - before the invasion in March 2003 - and raised concerns about the need to internationalise the reconstruction of Iraq and work closely with the United Nations."
Maj Gen Cross, 59, who was deputy head of the coalition's Office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance, said he also raised concerns over the number of troops available to maintain security in Iraq.
"He didn't want to hear that message," he said. "The US had already convinced themselves that following the invasion Iraq would emerge reasonably quickly as a stable democracy."
He added: "There is no doubt that with hindsight the US post-war plan was fatally flawed and many of us sensed that at the time."
We do think there have been many mistakes made. We would like to see a full-scale inquiry
William Hague, Shadow Foreign Secretary
Iraq militia 'freeze' welcomed
'Frustration' with UK in Basra
Politicians from across the spectrum have come out in support of Sir Mike's comments, made ahead of the serialisation of his autobiography in the Telegraph.
Sir Malcolm Rifkind, Conservative former foreign secretary and defence secretary, told the BBC that Mr Rumsfeld was "incompetent".
Shadow foreign secretary William Hague said the retired generals' criticisms re-enforced the case for a full inquiry into the war and its consequences, and called for a report to be made to parliament in October.
Mr Hague told Sky News: "We do think there have been many mistakes made. We would like to see a full-scale inquiry.
"I think some of the comments from one or two of the retired generals very much do strengthen the case for that and we want to see a full report when it gets back on Iraq."
A Downing Street spokesman said there had already been three "pretty exhaustive" inquiries, and that the prime minister had recognised there were lessons to be learned.
But he said that the process needed to wait until the fighting was over.
'Extraordinary decision'
John Bolton, former US Ambassador to the UN, told BBC Radio 4's PM programme that Sir Mike had "read into a version of history that simply is not supported by the evidence".
"And I can see where he'd have a parochial view from the military perspective. I don't think he saw some of the larger political debates.
"I'm not saying that we got it right in Washington because I've made my own criticisms. His just happen to be way off the mark, very simplistic, I think in a sense limited by the role that he had."
Profile: Gen Sir Mike Jackson
The Telegraph also reports that, in his autobiography, Sir Mike says the US approach to fighting global terrorism was "inadequate" as it focused on military power rather than diplomacy and nation-building.
The US Department of Defence said: "Divergent viewpoints are a hallmark of open, democratic societies."
A spokeswoman for the US State Department said she would not comment on Sir Mike's views.
His comments follow a series of critical remarks from US officials about the British attitude towards Iraq.
BBC defence correspondent Paul Wood said Sir Mike's comments may put further strain on the British-US operation in Iraq.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6974611.stm
Last Updated: Sunday, 2 September 2007, 13:07 GMT 14:07 UK
E-mail this to a friend Printable version
Fresh UK attack on US Iraq policy
Maj Gen Tim Cross said Donald Rumsfeld ignored warnings
A second key British general has criticised US post-war policy in Iraq.
Maj Gen Tim Cross, who was the most senior UK officer involved in post-war planning, told the Sunday Mirror US policy was "fatally flawed".
Maj Gen Cross said: "We were all very concerned about the lack of detail that had gone into the post-war plan."
His comments came after Gen Sir Mike Jackson, head of the Army during the invasion, told the Daily Telegraph US policy was "intellectually bankrupt".
The Ministry of Defence played down the comments by Sir Mike, now retired, saying he was entitled to express his opinion on his former job.
'Lack of detail'
In an interview published on Saturday, Sir Mike said a claim by the then US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld that US forces "don't do nation-building" was "nonsensical".
Maj Gen Cross, also retired, said he had raised serious concerns about potential post-war problems in Iraq with Mr Rumsfeld as well.
But he said Mr Rumsfeld "dismissed" or "ignored" the warnings.
"Right from the very beginning we were all very concerned about the lack of detail that had gone into the post-war plan and there is no doubt that Rumsfeld was at the heart of that process," he said.
There is no doubt that with hindsight the US post-war plan was fatally flawed and many of us sensed that at the time
Maj Gen Tim Cross
"I had lunch with Rumsfeld in February in Washington - before the invasion in March 2003 - and raised concerns about the need to internationalise the reconstruction of Iraq and work closely with the United Nations."
Maj Gen Cross, 59, who was deputy head of the coalition's Office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance, said he also raised concerns over the number of troops available to maintain security in Iraq.
"He didn't want to hear that message," he said. "The US had already convinced themselves that following the invasion Iraq would emerge reasonably quickly as a stable democracy."
He added: "There is no doubt that with hindsight the US post-war plan was fatally flawed and many of us sensed that at the time."
We do think there have been many mistakes made. We would like to see a full-scale inquiry
William Hague, Shadow Foreign Secretary
Iraq militia 'freeze' welcomed
'Frustration' with UK in Basra
Politicians from across the spectrum have come out in support of Sir Mike's comments, made ahead of the serialisation of his autobiography in the Telegraph.
Sir Malcolm Rifkind, Conservative former foreign secretary and defence secretary, told the BBC that Mr Rumsfeld was "incompetent".
Shadow foreign secretary William Hague said the retired generals' criticisms re-enforced the case for a full inquiry into the war and its consequences, and called for a report to be made to parliament in October.
Mr Hague told Sky News: "We do think there have been many mistakes made. We would like to see a full-scale inquiry.
"I think some of the comments from one or two of the retired generals very much do strengthen the case for that and we want to see a full report when it gets back on Iraq."
A Downing Street spokesman said there had already been three "pretty exhaustive" inquiries, and that the prime minister had recognised there were lessons to be learned.
But he said that the process needed to wait until the fighting was over.
'Extraordinary decision'
John Bolton, former US Ambassador to the UN, told BBC Radio 4's PM programme that Sir Mike had "read into a version of history that simply is not supported by the evidence".
"And I can see where he'd have a parochial view from the military perspective. I don't think he saw some of the larger political debates.
"I'm not saying that we got it right in Washington because I've made my own criticisms. His just happen to be way off the mark, very simplistic, I think in a sense limited by the role that he had."
Profile: Gen Sir Mike Jackson
The Telegraph also reports that, in his autobiography, Sir Mike says the US approach to fighting global terrorism was "inadequate" as it focused on military power rather than diplomacy and nation-building.
The US Department of Defence said: "Divergent viewpoints are a hallmark of open, democratic societies."
A spokeswoman for the US State Department said she would not comment on Sir Mike's views.
His comments follow a series of critical remarks from US officials about the British attitude towards Iraq.
BBC defence correspondent Paul Wood said Sir Mike's comments may put further strain on the British-US operation in Iraq.
The real story:
British blamed for Basra badgers
Word spread among the populace that UK troops had introduced strange man-eating, bear-like beasts into the area to sow panic.
But several of the creatures, caught and killed by local farmers, have been identified by experts as honey badgers.
The rumours spread because the animals had appeared near the British base at Basra airport.
UK military spokesman Major Mike Shearer said: "We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into the area.
"We have been told these are indigenous nocturnal carnivores that don't attack humans unless cornered."
The director of Basra's veterinary hospital, Mushtaq Abdul-Mahdi, has inspected several of the animals' corpses.
He told the AFP news agency: "These appeared before the fall of the regime in 1986. They are known locally as Al-Girta.
"Talk that this animal was brought by the British forces is incorrect and unscientific."
Dr Ghazi Yaqub Azzam, deputy dean of Basra's veterinary college, speculated that the badgers were being driven towards the city because of flooding in marshland north of Basra.
But the assurances did little to convince some members of the public.
One housewife, Suad Hassan, 30, claimed she had been attacked by one of the badgers as she slept.
"My husband hurried to shoot it but it was as swift as a deer," she said. "It is the size of a dog but his head is like a monkey," she told AFP.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6295138.stm
British blamed for Basra badgers
Word spread among the populace that UK troops had introduced strange man-eating, bear-like beasts into the area to sow panic.
But several of the creatures, caught and killed by local farmers, have been identified by experts as honey badgers.
The rumours spread because the animals had appeared near the British base at Basra airport.
UK military spokesman Major Mike Shearer said: "We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into the area.
"We have been told these are indigenous nocturnal carnivores that don't attack humans unless cornered."
The director of Basra's veterinary hospital, Mushtaq Abdul-Mahdi, has inspected several of the animals' corpses.
He told the AFP news agency: "These appeared before the fall of the regime in 1986. They are known locally as Al-Girta.
"Talk that this animal was brought by the British forces is incorrect and unscientific."
Dr Ghazi Yaqub Azzam, deputy dean of Basra's veterinary college, speculated that the badgers were being driven towards the city because of flooding in marshland north of Basra.
But the assurances did little to convince some members of the public.
One housewife, Suad Hassan, 30, claimed she had been attacked by one of the badgers as she slept.
"My husband hurried to shoot it but it was as swift as a deer," she said. "It is the size of a dog but his head is like a monkey," she told AFP.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6295138.stm
colddiesel
Literotica Guru
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A British exit from Iraq could provide Bush with a useful political outcome.With only 5000 troops there the UK contingent is not really relevant but if they go Bush can blame them for anything that goes wrong. Brown won't care tuppence about any invective from Bush Cheney et al, in fact their criticism will help him get re- elected.
I wonder if Bush is smart enough to cut and run and blame the Brits?
I wonder if Bush is smart enough to cut and run and blame the Brits?
gauchecritic
When there are grey skies
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oggbashan said:
Ogg said fucked.
S-Des
Comfortably Numb
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Just stunningly ignorant. It's not surprising, considering groups in this area believe stories about Jewish doctors performing surgeries on healthy Muslims to take away their organs for Jewish paitents (and then there's the whole, "Jews drink the blood of Muslims" storyjayce1066 said:
). If only 'Smart Bombs' actually performed that function. Similar threads
