Brave Iraqi Insurgents

[R. Richard]

Brave Iraqi insurgents are fighting for freedom, even as you read this. The question is, "whose freedom?" The brave freedom fighters detonated an explosives-rigged vehicle with two children in the back seat. Of course, the brave freedom fighters ran away from the vehicle before the detonated the explosives. The children? Well, the "lions of al Qaida" have to look at the big picture. They must expell the US soldiers who are attempting to put an Iraqi government of the people together. If they have to kill children to accomplish their political aims, so be it. Now answer me a question, if the al Qaida people who detonated the explosives were good Muslims and they felt they were striking a blow against the infidel invaders, why did they not stay with the vehicle and get the instant admission to Paradise guaranteed to those who die in battle against the infidel? Comment?

Iraq insurgents used children in car bombing

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Insurgents in Iraq detonated an explosives-rigged vehicle with two children in the back seat after US soldiers let it through a Baghdad checkpoint over the weekend, a senior US military official said Tuesday.

The vehicle was stopped at the checkpoint but was allowed through when soldiers saw the children in the back, said Major General Michael Barbero of the Pentagon's Joint Staff.

"Children in the back seat lowered suspicion. We let it move through. They parked the vehicle, and the adults ran out and detonated it with the children in the back," Barbero said.

The general said it was the first time he had seen a report of insurgents using children in suicide bombings. But he said Al-Qaeda in Iraq is changing tactics in response to the tighter controls around the city.

A US defense official said the incident occurred on Sunday in Baghdad's Adhamiyah district, a mixed neighborhood adjacent to Sadr City, which is predominantly Shiite.

After going through the checkpoint, the vehicle parked next to a market across the street from a school, said the official, who asked not to be identified.

"And the two adults were seen to get out of the vehicle, and run from the vehicle, and then followed by the detonation of the vehicle," the official said.

"It killed the two children inside as well as three other civilians in the vicinity. So, a total of five killed, seven injured," the official said.

Officials here said they did not know who the children were or their relationship to the two adults who fled the scene. They had no information about their ages or genders.

"The brutality and the ruthlessness of this enemy hasn't changed," said Barbero, deputy director of regional operations of the Joint Staff. "They are just interested in slaughtering Iraqi civilians, to be very honest."

Attacks on Iraqi civilians are down by a third and sectarian murders have fallen by 50 percent since mid-February when US and Iraqi forces began moving into Baghdad as part of a new security crackdown, the general said.

On the other hand, there has been no let-up in attacks on US forces by Al-Qaeda in Iraq and other Sunni extremist groups, he said.

The incidence of car bombings and suicide attacks, which are typically carried out by Sunni extremist groups against Shiites, also have gone up even though their effectiveness is down, he said.

"As our checkpoints, and control points have been more effective, as they try to execute these high profile attacks with these vehicle-borne IEDs (improvised explosive devices) in Baghdad, we're stopping a lot of them at these checkpoints and they are not getting to their intended targets," he said.

But he said they will change their tactics.

Barbero pointed to the recent use of chlorine bombs as another example of the shifting tactics.

Three trucks with chlorine were blown up by suicide bombers over the weekend in Al-Anbar province, killing two policemen and releasing toxic fumes that sickened an estimated 350 people.

Barbero said Al-Qaeda in Iraq appeared to be resorting to use of chlorine bombs to intimidate tribal leaders that have turned against them in Al-Anbar.

"We assess those as relatively ineffective. However, that is an emerging tactic that we are seeing."

"We think it will continue to be exercised in Iraq. Chlorine is readily accessible and we've had a number of these," he said.

He said US commanders remain concerned about the Shiite militias led by radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, even though US forces are now operating freely in Sadr City and his Mahdi army militia is quiet.

Sadr is still in Iran but in communication with leaders of his movement in Iraq, he said.

"Where we are with the leaders of his movement is at a pretty delicate point, and I probably don't want to talk any more about his followers, and where we are in our relationship with them," he said.

 

[semen4her]

Shut the fuck up. Those turds are just as bad as the American army. The only difference is that you guys rape them before you kill them.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

It is a national imparative that we stop the insurgents NOW!. That great sage of the U.S. Senate, Lindsey Graham, said, if we don't, in a few months they will be here in this country kicking GWB's ass!


On second thought, just let them go

 

[Liar]

They must expell the US soldiers who are attempting to put an Iraqi government of the people together. If they have to kill children to accomplish their political aims, so be it. Now answer me a question, if the al Qaida people who detonated the explosives were good Muslims and they felt they were striking a blow against the infidel invaders, why did they not stay with the vehicle and get the instant admission to Paradise guaranteed to those who die in battle against the infidel? Comment?

Wow dude, when you're in preaching mode, you're really reaching.

And still, you have already answered your own question. Political aims. Very few religious motifs there, (albeit a quite cheap religious rhethoric). Al Q thrives on havoc, and in the strive for upmanship there, methods and praxis can get fucked up fast. Go figure.

 

[Wildcard Ky]

Shut the fuck up. Those turds are just as bad as the American army. The only difference is that you guys rape them before you kill them.

What a fucking moron.................

 

[R. Richard]

Shut the fuck up. Those turds are just as bad as the American army. The only difference is that you guys rape them before you kill them.

There are people in the United States Army who rape and kill Iraqi civilians [although it is often very difficult to determine who is a civilian, since the 'insurgents' fight without uniform or identifying insignia.] When the United States Army gets charges against their soldiers, they hold legal hearings that lead toward a courts martial [frequently, during the early stages of said hearings, the charges are abandoned for lack of evidence.] Tell me where al Qaida tries its rapers and killers TIA.]

As to the charges, let's consider the Palestinian town of Jenin. 'Insurgents' and the Israeli Defense Forces engaged in a fire fight in and around Jenin. The IDF forces were in uniform and bore insignia. The Palestinian 'insurgents' were in civilian clothes, with no identifying insignia [this last is a voilation of the laws a war and of the Geneva Convention.] At the end of the battle, the UN sent in 'observers,' [the UN runs the Palestinian 'refugee camps.] The UN observers were told that the IDF killed some 900 Palestinians and buried them just outside Jenin. The UN said, "Show us where." There was no where and no mass grave. The Palestinians then charged that the IDF had killed '500 Arabs.' The UN watched as the debris was removed and the UN found about 50 Palestinians dead. The majority of said Palestinians were found to have died when walls and/or roofs fell on them. The Palestinians were using explosives against the IDF, the IDF basically did not use explosives to try to trap the Palestinians in their own burrows. Of the remaining 20 or so dead Palestinians, the Arab Mayor of Jenin said, "900 dead, or 500 dead, or 20 dead, it is still a massacre." It was then pointed out that many of the Palestinians killed by bullets may well have been shot by illegal Palestinian enemy combatants. The Mayor of Jenin then accused the UN of attempting to cover up a massacre.

The Islamists are not good at obeying the rules. They are damn good at lying.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

The Islamists are not good at obeying the rules. They are damn good at lying.

It doesn't appear they are even good at lying if they keep getting caught in it...

 

[drksideofthemoon]

Brave Iraqi insurgents are fighting for freedom, even as you read this. The question is, "whose freedom?" The brave freedom fighters detonated an explosives-rigged vehicle with two children in the back seat. Of course, the brave freedom fighters ran away from the vehicle before the detonated the explosives. The children? Well, the "lions of al Qaida" have to look at the big picture. They must expell the US soldiers who are attempting to put an Iraqi government of the people together. If they have to kill children to accomplish their political aims, so be it. Now answer me a question, if the al Qaida people who detonated the explosives were good Muslims and they felt they were striking a blow against the infidel invaders, why did they not stay with the vehicle and get the instant admission to Paradise guaranteed to those who die in battle against the infidel? Comment?

Is there a point to your rant?

 

[R. Richard]

Is there a point to your rant?

First I would like to thank you for your polite question. Other than that, you can osculate my gluteus maximus.

You have, from the article, a couple of adult al Qaida guys who use kids to sneak through a check point. They then allow the kids to die while the al Qaida guys run away. The running away would not be so bad, except that dying in warfare against infidels is the only guaranteed way to get to Paradise. Instead of accepting Paradise, the Islamists kill a couple of kids while the Islamists run away.

Hadith - Sahih Bukhari 1:35, Narrated Abu Huraira

The Prophet said, "The person who participates in (Holy battles) in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostles, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise (if he is killed in the battle as a martyr). Had I not found it difficult for my followers, then I would not remain behind any sariya going for Jihad and I would have loved to be martyred in Allah's cause and then made alive, and then martyred and then made alive, and then again martyred in His cause."

 

[Pure]

hi rr,
i think you've made your point that killing innocents is a terrible thing. in a war, in many cases it can be foreseen. since the actions are planned and deliberate and the ancillary killings foreseen, they are, de facto, intended, in my book.

it's been open season on civilians at many times in history, but it's come back with a vengeance since/during WWII. that is the nature of contemporary war. unless you are pacifist, then, and if you approve of US or British or Russian or Chinese tactics--pick your team!-- in any events since/during WWII, then you favor-- or allow with regret-- killings of civililians in the context of military objectives you consider legitimate.

if that conclusion is true, all the rest--recent examples from both sides, from Israel, from the Palestinians, etc.--is just haggling as to whose objectives have the (self-ascribed) moral high ground. i'm not sure that it matters, since lots of innocents will die--in ways the combatants foresee-- on the way to those objectives.

i appreciate your indignation, but hope you keep spreading it to all atrocities.
===

PS. It is not hard to find bloodthirsty statement by adherents of various religions. Consider this one by Martin Luther, a founder of Protestantism. I wouldn't bring up this historical embarrassment if the proposals weren't (more or less) actually carried out by good Xtians in this century.

From "The Jews and their Lies," by Martin Luther, 1543.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/luther-jews.html

What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews? Since they live among us, we dare not tolerate their conduct, now that we are aware of their lying and reviling and blaspheming. If we do, we become sharers in their lies, cursing and blaspemy. Thus we cannot extinguish the unquenchable fire of divine wrath, of which the prophets speak, nor can we convert the Jews. With prayer and the fear of God we must pratice a sharp mercy to see whether we might save at least a few from the glowing flames. We dare not avenge ourselves. Vengenance a thousand times worse than we could wish them already has them by the throat. I shall give you my sincere advice:


First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. For whatever we tolerated in the past unknowingly - and I myself was unaware of it - will be pardoned by God. But if we, now that we are informed, were to protect and shield such a house for the Jews, existing right before our very nose, in which they lie about, blaspheme, curse, vilify, and defame Christ and us (as was heard above), it would be the same as if we were doing all this and even worse ourselves, as we very well know.


Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God.

[the list continues with several more, similar proposals]

 

[3113]

Brave Iraqi insurgents are fighting for freedom, even as you read this. The question is, "whose freedom?" The brave freedom fighters detonated an explosives-rigged vehicle with two children in the back seat.

I agree entirely. These are cowardly, barbaric, brutal animals. It's too bad they're our problem to solve. Though I suppose at this point, you'd recommend any means necessary to stop them. And, again, I'll agree. Anything we have to do, we oughta do it.

You know, there was this guy who ran things...what was his name? We thought his tactics were pretty evil a few years back, torture and repressing religions and all, but boy, no one was pulling these stunts while he was in power. No sir! He had the whole country under control.

Wish we could get him back. Then shit like this probably woudn't happen...and if it did it'd be his problem not ours....

What was his name? Started with an "S" last name an "H"....?

We could really, really use him right about now. He's the only one that knocked these people into line. They respected him and they didn't kill kids while he was around. Yep. He really knew how to handle this country and keep the peace. Too bad he's gone....

 

[cumallday]

The American military kills children too.

America's empire is not like empires of times past, built on colonies, conquest and the white man's burden. You guys are no longer in the era of the United Fruit Company, when American corporations needed the Marines to secure their investments overseas - oh no. The 21st century imperium is a new invention in the annals of political science, an empire lite of sorts, a global hegemony whose grace notes are free rather than fair markets, claims to human rights and democracy, enforced by the most rabid military power the world has ever known - fuck yeah. It is the imperialism of a people who remember that their country secured its independence by revolt against an empire, and who like to think of themselves as the friend of freedom everywhere. It is an empire without consciousness of itself as such, constantly shocked that its good intentions arouse resentment abroad.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

First I would like to thank you for your polite question. Other than that, you can osculate my gluteus maximus.

You have, from the article, a couple of adult al Qaida guys who use kids to sneak through a check point. They then allow the kids to die while the al Qaida guys run away. The running away would not be so bad, except that dying in warfare against infidels is the only guaranteed way to get to Paradise. Instead of accepting Paradise, the Islamists kill a couple of kids while the Islamists run away.

Hadith - Sahih Bukhari 1:35, Narrated Abu Huraira

The Prophet said, "The person who participates in (Holy battles) in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostles, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise (if he is killed in the battle as a martyr). Had I not found it difficult for my followers, then I would not remain behind any sariya going for Jihad and I would have loved to be martyred in Allah's cause and then made alive, and then martyred and then made alive, and then again martyred in His cause."

Nah, I'll pass on your saggy, bigoted ass but, thanks for the offer.

Yes, a couple of cowardly terrorists used a couple of children as shields, and that is reprehensible, no matter what your religion. Islam does not condone terrorism. There are groups in the US similar to the Islamic terrorists who bend and warp the words in the Qu'ran for their own purposes. The Aryan Brotherhood for one twists the words of the Bible to try to spread their message of hate.

If you want to blame someone for this debacle, you need to look no further than the Oval Office in the White House.

 

[R. Richard]

Nah, I'll pass on your saggy, bigoted ass but, thanks for the offer.

I knew it would excite you.

Yes, a couple of cowardly terrorists used a couple of children as shields, and that is reprehensible, no matter what your religion. Islam does not condone terrorism. There are groups in the US similar to the Islamic terrorists who bend and warp the words in the Qu'ran for their own purposes. The Aryan Brotherhood for one twists the words of the Bible to try to spread their message of hate.

I was not aware that Islam does not condone terrorism. There are surrahs in the Q'ran that indicate that killing Jews is just OK. Maybe, in your world, killing Jews is OK, but not in mine. The Aryan Brotherhood is a prison based gang. That is, the United States has placed members of the Aryan Brotherhood in prison for a long time for the crimes they have committed. Perhaps you would be so kind as to tell me when and where al Qaida has sentenced its members to jail for crimes against other than al Qaida. TIA!

If you want to blame someone for this debacle, you need to look no further than the Oval Office in the White House.

I was unaware the someone in the Oval Office condones the killing of children in order to strike at those it considers its enemies. Perhaps you would be so kind as to cite a couple of instances. TIA!

 

[Pure]

silly guy,

I was unaware the someone in the Oval Office condones the killing of children in order to strike at those it considers its enemies. Perhaps you would be so kind as to cite a couple of instances. TIA!


Start with Roosevelt in WWII, and proceed up to Nixon in the Vietnam period and now GWB in Iraq II. The bombing is authorized at the top, but the specific targets are chosen by the generals.

In Iraq, there are attempts to bomb "neighborhoods" or even "apartment buildings" where the alleged terrorists are hiding.
Needless to say women and children are killed in such bombing raids, not to say the armed incursions by foot soldiers "searching for terrorists."

Please do not act so naive. Who the fuck do you think authorized the bombing of Dresden in WWII?

 

[drksideofthemoon]

I knew it would excite you.


I was not aware that Islam does not condone terrorism. There are surrahs in the Q'ran that indicate that killing Jews is just OK. Maybe, in your world, killing Jews is OK, but not in mine. The Aryan Brotherhood is a prison based gang. That is, the United States has placed members of the Aryan Brotherhood in prison for a long time for the crimes they have committed. Perhaps you would be so kind as to tell me when and where al Qaida has sentenced its members to jail for crimes against other than al Qaida. TIA!

Al Qaida is not a governing force, asking them to sentence its own members for crimes is a bit like asking the KKK to enforce civil rights. Obviously you haven't traveled to northern Idaho.

I was unaware the someone in the Oval Office condones the killing of children in order to strike at those it considers its enemies. Perhaps you would be so kind as to cite a couple of instances. TIA!

Whatever...you know exactly what I meant.

 

[R. Richard]

I was unaware the someone in the Oval Office condones the killing of children in order to strike at those it considers its enemies. Perhaps you would be so kind as to cite a couple of instances. TIA!


Start with Roosevelt in WWII, and proceed up to Nixon in the Vietnam period and now GWB in Iraq II. The bombing is authorized at the top, but the specific targets are chosen by the generals.

In Iraq, there are attempts to bomb "neighborhoods" or even "apartment buildings" where the alleged terrorists are hiding.
Needless to say women and children are killed in such bombing raids, not to say the armed incursions by foot soldiers "searching for terrorists."

Please do not act so naive. Who the fuck do you think authorized the bombing of Dresden in WWII?

Back in WWII the bombing of cities was considered to be a part of war. The Germans used V1 and V2 rockets against England and the allies fire bombed Dresdend.

I am unaware of coalition attempt to bomb "neighborhoods." It is true that homes are sometimes bombed in an attempt to kill terrorists. It is also true that women and children are sometime killed in said bombings. However, the death of women and/or children is due to the brave terrorists using said women and children as human shields. It is against the laws of war and the Geneva Comvention to conduct war from among a civilian population. The brave terrorists, however, use the strategy as a normal part of their operations. I do have to wonder why the brave UN does not shwo the coalition troops how to conduct operations against terrorists without collateral damage to the women and children among wnom the terrorists hide. Oh wait! The UN cut and run from Iraq because it was just too dangerous.

 

[Pure]

actually, i would think hizbollah and even al quaeda would have disciplinary measures. it is a kind of army, ya know. you fuck up a mission, i suspect there are consequences, such as, perhaps, demotion. you kill off "friendly" civilians, you employ excessive brutality, i'd suspect something is done-- perhaps a simple fast 'hearing' and, for the bad fuck ups, then a bullet in the head.

as you know, rr, with the recent cases of the US marines sentenced to life for rape and murder of the iraqi teen, the army [or, 'an army'] is not so concerned with morality or civilians per se, but with its image. the particular rape is all over the papers, so the army does something (for the first time in this war).

a "terrorist" or "guerrilla" group is esp. dependent on the good will of friendly civilians [some segment of the population], who provide aid, 'safe house,' etc. it makes sense that a *disciplined* group enforces some measures of control, "consequences", criticisms, 'busting down the ranks,' and punishments, for the same reasons: bad publicity, possible loss of support.
---

PS I am unaware of coalition attempt to bomb "neighborhoods."

a recent example is the Israeli efforts against Hizbollah in Lebanon.

isralis incidentally used some 'daisy cutter', US supplied bombs, apparently, the ones that spew shrapnel over an area the size of a football field. given that terrorists do not usually join together in groups of 100 or more (such as would cover a football field), it is clear that the 'field' will be cleared of BOTH terrorists and civilians.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

I do have to wonder why the brave UN does not shwo the coalition troops how to conduct operations against terrorists without collateral damage to the women and children among wnom the terrorists hide. Oh wait! The UN cut and run from Iraq because it was just too dangerous.

I had no idea that the UN had invaded Iraq...I thought Dubya came up with that all on his own...

 

[R. Richard]

Al Qaida is not a governing force, asking them to sentence its own members for crimes is a bit like asking the KKK to enforce civil rights. Obviously you haven't traveled to northern Idaho.

The KKK was an organization formed to combat injustices that followed the defeat of the South in the Civil War. There were any number of instances of grave injustices done to the Negro population of the South by members of the KKK. However, if a KKK member sent his children in to blow up a black owned house at the cost of the children's lives, that KKK member would have been tried and sentenced by the legal authorities, if he were not first executed by his own KKK people. [I have lived in the South and I know what I am talking about.]

 

[drksideofthemoon]

The KKK was an organization formed to combat injustices that followed the defeat of the South in the Civil War. There were any number of instances of grave injustices done to the Negro population of the South by members of the KKK. However, if a KKK member sent his children in to blow up a black owned house at the cost of the children's lives, that KKK member would have been tried and sentenced by the legal authorities, if he were not first executed by his own KKK people. [I have lived in the South and I know what I am talking about.]

Any shred of credibility that you had just evaporated...

 

[R. Richard]

actually, i would think hizbollah and even al quaeda would have disciplinary measures. it is a kind of army, ya know. you fuck up a mission, i suspect there are consequences, such as, perhaps, demotion. you kill off "friendly" civilians, you employ excessive brutality, i'd suspect something is done-- perhaps a simple fast 'hearing' and, for the bad fuck ups, then a bullet in the head.

as you know, rr, with the recent cases of the US marines sentenced to life for rape and murder of the iraqi teen, the army [or, 'an army'] is not so concerned with morality or civilians per se, but with its image. the particular rape is all over the papers, so the army does something (for the first time in this war).

a "terrorist" or "guerrilla" group is esp. dependent on the good will of friendly civilians [some segment of the population], who provide aid, 'safe house,' etc. it makes sense that a *disciplined* group enforces some measures of control, "consequences", criticisms, 'busting down the ranks,' and punishments, for the same reasons: bad publicity, possible loss of support.

The terrorist groups employ web sites to communicate with their supporters. AFAIK, there has been no attempt to publicise the discipline of terrorist by their own terrorist group. In normal circmstances, a guerrilla group is dependent upon the support of the people. However, the hatred of the Sunni Muslims for the Shias and the hatred of the Shias for the Sunnis makes the usual situation non-applicable here. Al Qaida is financed by people outside of the Iraqi comunity and uses murder and terror against even other Sunni Muslims, mainly the tribal groups in western Iraq.

If there is dsicipline within the terrorist cells, it is very much ingernal to the terrorist cells, with no outside publicity.


PS I am unaware of coalition attempt to bomb "neighborhoods."

a recent example is the Israeli efforts against Hizbollah in Lebanon.

isralis incidentally used some 'daisy cutter', US supplied bombs, apparently, the ones that spew shrapnel over an area the size of a football field. given that terrorists do not usually join together in groups of 100 or more (such as would cover a football field), it is clear that the 'field' will be cleared of BOTH terrorists and civilians.

The Hizb'Allah terrorist in Lebanon do move in groups of perhaps 100 members in size. They move at night and move from fortified position to fortified position. There were few Lebanese civilians moving through the countryside at night. Once again, the UN forcxes in Lebanon allow the Hizb'Allah forces to construct fortifications and to move banned arms into Lebanon without raising a hand.

 

[R. Richard]

I had no idea that the UN had invaded Iraq...I thought Dubya came up with that all on his own...

The UN maintained a mission in the "Green Zone" in Iraq. Said mission was attacked by mortars and the UN fled Iraq. By the way, the UN is a non-combatant group and had no troops or armed presence in Iraq aside from the usual security guards.

 

[cumallday]

I was unaware the someone in the Oval Office condones the killing of children in order to strike at those it considers its enemies. Perhaps you would be so kind as to cite a couple of instances. TIA!


Start with Roosevelt in WWII, and proceed up to Nixon in the Vietnam period and now GWB in Iraq II. The bombing is authorized at the top, but the specific targets are chosen by the generals.

In Iraq, there are attempts to bomb "neighborhoods" or even "apartment buildings" where the alleged terrorists are hiding.
Needless to say women and children are killed in such bombing raids, not to say the armed incursions by foot soldiers "searching for terrorists."

Please do not act so naive. Who the fuck do you think authorized the bombing of Dresden in WWII?

I'll just add a little to that. Here's what you might have missed in the mainstream media. March 29, 2003 - Shortly after coalition forces invaded Iraq, US bombs hit a busy market in Baghdad's Shula district, killing more than 50 civilians. April 1, 2003 - US cluster bombs killed 30 to 60 civilians and wounded hundreds more in Hilla. April 12, 2004 - Amnesty International estimated that after a year of combat, of the 600 of the Iraquis killed in Fallujah alone 200 were women and 100 young children. In one case US missiles fired at a mosque killing 40 worshippers. Stay the course.

 

[Pure]

[cluster bombs] "may likely could have been" [used in populated areas]

since we're talking about women and children being killed....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/29/AR2007012900510.html

[start WP article]
Israel May Have Misused Cluster Bombs, U.S. Says

By Glenn Kessler
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, January 30, 2007; Page A13

The State Department notified Congress yesterday that Israel may have violated U.S. rules prohibiting the use of American-made cluster bombs in civilian areas during last summer's war in Lebanon.

State Department spokesman Sean McCormack declined to confirm that the preliminary findings related to Israel's use of the weapons in civilian areas, citing classified military-sales agreements between Israel and the United States. But the State Department said last August that it opened the investigation because human rights groups complained that cluster weapons -- bombs that erupt with many little "bomblets" to maximize the number of people killed -- had been found across Lebanon and were responsible for many civilian deaths.


"There may likely could have been some violations" of the agreement governing the U.S. sales, McCormack said, stressing that the State Department has not made any final judgments but is required, under law, to notify Congress of its preliminary findings. He said the classified report was sent to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D-Del.), chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

Biden's staff said it was received late yesterday but they had no comment because the report is classified; Pelosi's office did not respond to a request for comment.

The war started after Hezbollah militants crossed into Israel, killing and capturing Israeli soldiers. After Israel responded, Hezbollah fired thousands of weapons on Israeli population centers from its bases in south Lebanon, frequently from civilian areas.

Israel provided "a detailed response" to the United States "regarding Israel's effort to halt Hezbollah's attacks on civilian populations," said David Siegel, a spokesman for the Israeli Embassy. "Israel suffered heavy casualties and acted as any government would in exercising its right to self-defense."

It is not illegal under international law to use cluster weapons against enemy combatants. The United States has used cluster bombs in Iraq, resulting in many civilian casualties. The Israeli Defense Forces, which says it urged people to flee areas near missile launchers to minimize civilian deaths, is investigating whether cluster bombs were heavily used in populated areas in the final days of the month-long war.

Hezbollah "used human shields, they hid themselves among civilian populations," McCormack said. "No military commander wants to have to be put in the position of acting in self-defense and going after those people who have committed aggression against your country but are then hiding among civilian populations."

Human Rights Watch urged a cutoff yesterday of cluster-bomb sales to Israel. [end WP article excerpt]

---
background from Human Rights Watch website.

//The Reagan administration imposed a six-year ban on cluster-weapon sales to Israel in 1982, after a Congressional investigation found that Israel had used the weapons in populated areas during its 1982 invasion of Lebanon. The current controversy surrounding the sale of US cluster munitions to Israel erupted in August 2006 when Israel requested that the US expedite delivery of over 1,300 surface-launched M26 artillery rockets for use in Lebanon. //