Branding, cutting....marks of possession

[Ms_Lilith]

One of my hard limits is piercing, branding, any type of body mutilation. I will engage in it because I like it, but I just can not bring myself to surrender that part of me.

Maybe it's because I used to cut, and I want to be past that... maybe it's because I've been scarred by other people, in violence... I just can not allow it.

 

[James G 5]

Saw a few permanent cuttings at the BDSM convention this weekend
it was fascinating & they were beautifully done
have participated in a branding before

Should probably elaborate but I am exhausted LOL

 

[DevilBoy79]

Having recently undergone a cutting as the first permanent (as in unremovable) marking of Master's eternal ownership of me as His slave, I was interested in the experiences of others in receiving their marks be they brandings, cuttings, tattoos, or anything.

Catalina

i bought innocent eyebrow piercing does that count as soem form of ownership etc?

 

[ammre]

I was actually thinking of starting a thread like this a while ago but i wasne't sure as to whether it would take well or not. I was surfing bmezine.com the other day and i saw a picture of a girl tied up and she had roses and vines branded up the side of her left thigh/butt cheek and it was a sign of ownership...
Much like shadows has mentioned there is a opsibility that a relationship could fall apart so it was intresting how people went about making the perminent markings veryvague but in relation to themselves they knew what it signified.

I sometimes wonder what those guys who have the "mom" tattoos were thinking. (if you apply their tattoo to a BDSM context that is)
"hi i'm a biker and i'm owned by mom."

 

[s'lara]

Undecided

Tatoo - i'd think this sort of 'marking' would be delicious to have and might heighten the feeling of being owned.

Cutting - Not sure, but the thought of it is intriguing.

Branding - Cannot fathom it.

 

[dragonlace]

I think being marked His in such a way as a tatoo would be exhilarating but i was wondering too what kind of marks and tats have some of the Dom/mes used and what they would prefer in a mark?

 

[BlueSugar]

I remember way back when, when hickies were a sign of ownership back in "kiddie love days." haha. can anyone remember back then?

I am currently discovering my sub side...I enjoy collars and tags and piercings in where "he" picked them out, thus my nipples, bellybutton, eyebrow and soon my tongue have be done... I'm sure more are to come.
I'm kind of new to the "official" bsdm play, but I enjoy it. One day I hope I will find the connection that you have with your Doms, I think it is incredably sweet and caring. Some ideas that were posted sounded really nice.

My idea :I read alot, and Dragon Lance series, (mideival fantasy) has been a series I have been reading since it was created, and I think the elven word " Quisalas Elevas" was beautiful... it means "my beloved" Maybe something like that, in a language that isn't made up. ( in latin Quisalas means "whos there." btw)

A word that signifies the bond you both share.

 

[replicant]

As long as the markings are mutual then it's fine. I myself cannot understand why a Dom would want to mutilate their most prized possession as a form of ownership. Tattoo's can be beautiful, brandings can be nice, but cutting are absolutely barbaric. When the relationship becomes null having scarification upon one's body will be a horrible reminder of decision's made in haste. Anything truly dangerous, violent, and potentially life-changing should be done with absolute certainty that it is what the sub wishes to do. IMO the female form is the most awe-inspiring creation on the face of mankind and should never be marked unless it is done for the sake of adding more beauty. Scribing slave, sub, baby, or whatnot onto another human being with an instrument or tool of mangling is just ritualistic bullshit. Surrendering yourself to a Dom is a showing of love/admiration for another. You never lose your individuality or your true persona. Only allow yourself to be taken through such things if you feel it is something you want to do to show your love and loyalty. No is still an allowed word for all subs. Cruelty and Barbaric gratfication are ugly qualities within any Dominant.

 

[catalina_francisco]

As long as the markings are mutual then it's fine. I myself cannot understand why a Dom would want to mutilate their most prized possession as a form of ownership. Tattoo's can be beautiful, brandings can be nice, but cutting are absolutely barbaric. When the relationship becomes null having scarification upon one's body will be a horrible reminder of decision's made in haste. Anything truly dangerous, violent, and potentially life-changing should be done with absolute certainty that it is what the sub wishes to do. IMO the female form is the most awe-inspiring creation on the face of mankind and should never be marked unless it is done for the sake of adding more beauty. Scribing slave, sub, baby, or whatnot onto another human being with an instrument or tool of mangling is just ritualistic bullshit. Surrendering yourself to a Dom is a showing of love/admiration for another. You never lose your individuality or your true persona. Only allow yourself to be taken through such things if you feel it is something you want to do to show your love and loyalty. No is still an allowed word for all subs. Cruelty and Barbaric gratfication are ugly qualities within any Dominant.

So what in your opinion makes branding any different to cutting..the potential to go wrong is so much higher in branding, and is no less permanent. As to permanent marking of any kind, I think it foolish if you accept there is a chance this relationship is a passing phase in your life.

I am a slave and as such we both chose carefully before committing as it is a forever commitment. Once you allow another to take ownership of you, they from that moment on own and possess you, and as such have an equal responsibility and commitment. It is not something to discard after a year or two. As to wanting the cuttings, I did, and have more to look forward to. All our activities are done within the realms of safe, sane and consensual, and I am sure Master will tell you I have in no way lost my individuality though I am sure at times he could do with a little of that. LOL.

Catalina

 

[James G 5]

I am sure Master will tell you I have in no way lost my individuality though I am sure at times he could do with a little of that. LOL.

Catalina

no, really?

 

[replicant]

So what in your opinion makes branding any different to cutting..the potential to go wrong is so much higher in branding, and is no less permanent. As to permanent marking of any kind, I think it foolish if you accept there is a chance this relationship is a passing phase in your life.

I am a slave and as such we both chose carefully before committing as it is a forever commitment. Once you allow another to take ownership of you, they from that moment on they own and possess you, and as such have an equal responsibility and commitment. It is not something to discard after a year or two. As to wanting the cuttings, I did, and have more to look forward to. All our activities are done within the realms of safe, sane and consensual, and I am sure Master will tell you I have in no way lost my individuality though I am sure at times he could do with a little of that. LOL.

Catalina

Yet again, the naive cat tries to pick a fight. Branding from my experiences are done by professional artists such as tattoo artist or professional piercers who have taken seminars/classes to be able to do it properly. That way the risk for infection is very low and hard scarring is reduced. The only real times that branding goes bad is when some trailer park dom decides to he up a clothes hanger he shaped into his initials and burns it into the ass of some dumbass girl. Any type of body modification should be done solely by professionals.

Acceptance that a relationship can become more fragile with time is a basic concept. Any thought that it can never be broken apart for any reason is either naive, love blind, or just plain stupid. I am hoping you are just a bit young and naive so life lessons will fix your assumptions as time goes on. People get bored, tired, infatuated by something else, people cross, and life can generally throw anyone a curveball. Some people stay together forever, but as society shows us that is happening less and less now. Accept it as a possibility and move on.

When a sub chooses her/his Dom then that *IS* a very special bond, but it is not a bond that cannot be broken. It generally is a stronger connection than your normal boy-girl/girl-girl/boy-boy love affair as their is a stronger commitment and mutual association. You also seem to mix up slave and submissive when thinking of relationships. A slave is devoid of any real thought and opinion. They are purely for their Master's/Mistresses gratificationa dn amusement which is part of the S&M lifestyle and not Ds. Although, you could be referring to slave as a pet name so that may be an assumption on my part. Also, I never said your relationship would last only a year or two. I simply stated that you cannot count on the relationship lasting forever so thought about doing body modifications to yourself in the name of your Dom should be heavily thought about. *IF* for some reason the relationship doesn't work, then you have to live with some ghetto ass butcher knife carving of "slave" across your back as an example. Future Dom's or partners may not find that appealing in the least. As long as you are safe and it's consenual then I have no problem with the lifestyle choices anyone makes. About you individuality being something your Dom may wish you didn't have as much on sometimes. Every Dom has those thoughts, but without a little spirit and ambition a sub would be no fun at all. Full submission takes the challenge and flavor away most of the time.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hello replicant,

Thank you for your wise lessons and insight into what must be a long and experienced life into BDSM. And that for one born in 1973, you must have been into BDSM the moment you where born to have been in it longer then I. (and just adding here…1973-2003 = 30 years...3(sub)+10 years (Dom) = 13 years….geez you started at 17 years old!!), Me being only slightly older than you, (hey some people even call me kid, while Catalina (my psychic sidekick) is 9 years older again with a wealth of life experience, it is indeed not the years that count but the soul inside that tell the true age of a person.

It is true that relationships come and go, it is true that it is fashion to accept the fact that relationships end. However why would we need to accept something we do not agree with. It is also true that there are still relationships that do not end, people who actually stay together. I understand out of your remarks that you have had different experiences, I am sorry to hear that for you. We intend to stay together forever and plan accordingly, which you may find foolish and naïve, but this is partly due to our shared belief that a slave/Master relationship is a life commitment, not whim. We based our search for each other on that premise. I am not going to state here that you are wrong and I am correct. You have the fullest right to your opinion. I disagree with you of course but that is my right.

You also seem to mix up slave and submissive when thinking of relationships. A slave is devoid of any real thought and opinion. They are purely for their Master's/Mistresses gratificationa dn amusement which is part of the S&M lifestyle and not Ds

It is a complete mystery to me where you have picked up that little pearl of wisdom or was it an insight of your own. BDSM stands for Bondage, Discipline, Sadism and Masochism, the four are part of one, and parts are only that, parts not the whole. IMHO in BDSM there is no division between the four, it is all or nothing. I am sure some sub-cultures thinks differently. S & M stands for pain and the enjoyment of pain, sadism and masochism. There are several people in the lifestyle who are slaves and masters and are not sadist or masochist. Are you stating that they are not slaves and masters because they are not sadist and masochists? Also where does the discipline come into in your picture and where is the dominance? How can you state that a slave does not receive any discipline or dominance I am very confused by your definition it just does not make any sense.

What is a slave and what is a Submissive, well that depends on your own definition like everything else in life. BDSM is what the people living it make of it. If that is your own opinion and definition of BDSM fine, live by it, it is not ours though.

If my slave Catalina was not supposed to have an opinion of her own, if I would shut down her brain, I would diminish the value of my property since, her brain, her will, her intelligence is all part of her and all make her more valuable. I would have a very boring life if I would have a partner that would not offer me an opinion, who would not respectfully correct my mistakes, who would as it were only exist as furniture. There are people inside the lifestyle that believe such to be the best for a slave to be of course, but I and many others believe otherwise.

Catalina is not my submissive, but my slave. How can I say that? We have made a binding agreement between us in which we have cut our bridges, we have married, and she has given herself unconditionally to me, given me the fullest power to do with her whatever I would want physical and emotional, a decision built on mutual trust, commitment, and like mindedness. She has entrusted her life, her financial welfare, her son, all to me. She has sold her house, withdrawn from her career, and changed countries and culture for me, and learn a new language. There is no giving that can go much deeper than that is there now?

About the branding and the cutting, you must have had a very sheltered life inside the lifestyle if you have never seen it before. It is very common in certain circles to brand your own slave personally, to mark your own property, as it is also as common to be marked by your slave when she is up to it. You see a mutual branding or cutting is a sign to show the commitment two people can have towards each other. Although Catalina has not branded or cut me yet, it is only a matter of time before she does. She is having some problems with the idea of a slave cutting her owner.

For the rest I would like to say that I did not make a very definitively artistic cutting on my slave. I only chose something very simple, my initial, as she is going to do for me. The risk of infection is indeed there which is why we took the highest possible precautions we could. The same as professional would, although I have understood there to be a lot of professionals that do not take proper care and as such actually infect their clients. So even if you go to a professional you need to be careful and try to take as much care as possible. The same is true of branding, professional or otherwise. Added to that there is increased risk of branding scarring unexpectedly bad in such a way it is unrecognisable to the intended design…burns are more unpredictable in healing than a cut especially if your slave has a skin condition that makes any scarring an ongoing process (keloid scar), which may not be known until it is too late. These scars are not usually repairable in any way.

For the rest I welcome you to the board and hope to hear more from you in the future. You are an intelligent youngster, although a bit inexperienced, from whom I would like to hear more in the future.

Francisco.

 

[James G 5]

Yet again, the naive cat tries to pick a fight. Branding from my experiences are done by professional artists such as tattoo artist or professional piercers who have taken seminars/classes to be able to do it properly. That way the risk for infection is very low and hard scarring is reduced. The only real times that branding goes bad is when some trailer park dom decides to he up a clothes hanger he shaped into his initials and burns it into the ass of some dumbass girl. Any type of body modification should be done solely by professionals.

And I have seen plenty of cuttings done by trained professionals, too
we had 2 of them at the last big BDSM convention I was at
I've also attended seminars for people on doing it safely
Apparently you haven't had any experience with that sort of body mod?

 

[ammre]

And I have seen plenty of cuttings done by trained professionals, too
we had 2 of them at the last big BDSM convention I was at
I've also attended seminars for people on doing it safely
Apparently you haven't had any experience with that sort of body mod?

I have to concur with james. Cutting and branding both have the same risks (since both, if the person has any brains, will be done by a professional) you have an open wound, one bleeds more, that's it. Also with cutting the lines are much more precise. With any scar they will spread out and in order to get a branding or a cutting to scar properly you have to sough the scab off every so often. you need to wash it well and keep it well. a branding scar will actually spread and be wider. A cutting (or dermal removal) scar while being precise can be too precise having the problem that it may not be deep enough to maintain the design and will need to be re-cut. In that case you have the same risk of a tattoo fading, skin is growing life so anything you do to it will fade and mutate after a while.

For more information on Scarification see: BME's FAQ on the subject


(by the way did i mention i was a bod mod freak and hoping to become a piercing apprentice *smile*)

 

[Mastersprincess]

<A slave is devoid of any real thought and opinion. >

I think you should be a bit more careful making accusations. My definition of a slave differs with yours, I think.

Catalina, I am so curious about your cutting. I wish you would share more. Pics would be appreciated lol.

princess

 

[James G 5]

For more information on Scarification see: BME's FAQ on the subject

You can also contact Deborah Addington, she does seminars & classes
A description of one of her classes :
Temporary and Permanent Ritual Scarification and/or Play Piercing (2 separate classes)
I regard all forms of bloodplay--cutting, scarification, play piercing--as a physiospiritual way of accessing incredible intensity; I teach those subjects from a technical perspective within the framework of sacred sexuality. A cutting workshop includes safety, setup, audience participation on chicken breasts (blade respect and basic techniques) and a demonstration of a temporary or permanent cutting, depending on volunteers. Play piercing includes safety, setup, patterning and a live demonstration on a human volunteer.

You can reach her via her site www.fistandfangs.com

(Ms. Addington has written several books but is best known for THE book on Fisting, "A Hand in the Bush", and her Vampire work, hence the site name)

 

[replicant]

I have seen many people practice cutting and I still find it atrocious and barbaric. At various conventions I have seen a couple nice cuts, but the majority are just ugly scars. Yes, this is my experiences, but that is what life is. A series of experiences.

BDSM also means something different to me than you it seems.
BDSM = Bondage-Discipline/Dominant-submissive/Sado-Masochism

You obviously see things different than I do and you are entitled to those viewpoints. I however find most of them wrong.

As for age. I meant that in relation to the Ds lifestyle. Granted 13 years in not a staggering amount of time, but it is quite large considering I am only 30. At the age of 17 I was introduced to BDSM through a teacher in school. I was with her until almost my 21st birthday and during that time my Dominance became ever more apparent. We parted as our relationship was no longer of mutual interest. In the last decade I have had 2 subs. My first lasted for almost 6 years, before life through me a curveball and they were taken away from me. My 2nd was for about 3 years and she had to leave due to family obligations. All three of these relationships were very fulfilling and were with very exceptional people.

You may be older than I am, but I still consider your viewpoint to be that of someone young and naive. Maybe I have become far to cynical within my 30 years. I learned at a very young age that nothing is forever so I do not try to convince myself otherwise. If you won't to continue being ever hopefully that love cannot be interrupted, then so be it. Freewill can be a bitch sometimes.

 

[catalina_francisco]

You obviously see things different than I do and you are entitled to those viewpoints. I however find most of them wrong.

As for age. I meant that in relation to the Ds lifestyle. Granted 13 years in not a staggering amount of time, but it is quite large considering I am only 30. At the age of 17 I was introduced to BDSM through a teacher in school. I was with her until almost my 21st birthday and during that time my Dominance became ever more apparent. We parted as our relationship was no longer of mutual interest. In the last decade I have had 2 subs. My first lasted for almost 6 years, before life through me a curveball and they were taken away from me. My 2nd was for about 3 years and she had to leave due to family obligations. All three of these relationships were very fulfilling and were with very exceptional people.

You may be older than I am, but I still consider your viewpoint to be that of someone young and naive. Maybe I have become far to cynical within my 30 years. I learned at a very young age that nothing is forever so I do not try to convince myself otherwise. If you won't to continue being ever hopefully that love cannot be interrupted, then so be it. Freewill can be a bitch sometimes.

So now I begin to understand you a little, or at least can see where perhaps you developed ideas about the lifestyle that seem so in opposition to most. To have been introduced to BDSM at the age 17 by a teacher at your school to me has set the foundations for you to believe BDSM is vastly different to how most perceive it. For one thing, a cornerstone to any lifestyle relationship is trust. Your teacher, who was in a position of trust, seriously abused this trust, not to mention the law, by taking you under her/his wing and introducing you to it no doubt for their own purposes which had nothing to do with the essence of BDSM, and more to do with selfish sexual gratification. I suspect they conditioned you in whatever way they wanted to achieve what they wanted and we are now seeing the effects. I feel empathy for you.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Thanks for the great links ammre and James...will take time to view them later today hopefully.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

[B
Catalina, I am so curious about your cutting. I wish you would share more. Pics would be appreciated lol.

princess [/B]

Thanks, I will see what I can do...think we have some pics of Master's handiwork during the process. I initially wanted the type design I saw everywhere on sites, aesthetically pleasing, a work of art etc. We discussed it, I drew some designs, all of which would be hard to do without years of professional experience and equipment. Master expressed how he felt it should be something simple, less risky, and obviously not professional, to enhance the meaning and signifiance as his mark, so I have an 'F' on my butt, horizontal for easy access in the doing and is also nice positioning for Master's hand at certain moments. LOL.

Catalina

 

[replicant]

So now I begin to understand you a little, or at least can see where perhaps you developed ideas about the lifestyle that seem so in opposition to most. To have been introduced to BDSM at the age 17 by a teacher at your school to me has set the foundations for you to believe BDSM is vastly different to how most perceive it. For one thing, a cornerstone to any lifestyle relationship is trust. Your teacher, who was in a position of trust, seriously abused this trust, not to mention the law, by taking you under her/his wing and introducing you to it no doubt for their own purposes which had nothing to do with the essence of BDSM, and more to do with selfish sexual gratification. I suspect they conditioned you in whatever way they wanted to achieve what they wanted and we are now seeing the effects. I feel empathy for you.

Catalina

Your condescending bullshit and arrogant assumptions are absolutely unnecessary. I made advances to her and she responded to them. Our relationship was of mutual gratification at first and grew from there. Soon after our coming together she told me of her lifestyle and I met many of her friends and associates in the lifestyle. We travelled to conventions and gatherings and I learned much from that. My perceptions of BDSM have been gleamed from meeting and talking to people about BDSM through my 13 years of practice. This is from BBS's, Cons, Social Events, and General practice. You seem to love to assume a lot and be very confrontational to many here for quite some time. I myself would *suspect* that your viewpoints and practices have been taken right from a chatroom conversation or BDSM general site and practiced solely upon yourself in solitude. Multiple Personality and Disassociative Identity Disorders are very serious conditions and I suggest you seek help immediately before you do damage to yourself or your cat.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Your condescending bullshit and arrogant assumptions are absolutely unnecessary.

Hi Replicant,

There is no confrontation intended just sincere concern, if you have taken it as an insult or feel in any way insulted by our sometimes strong language and emotions, I apologize. You have the fullest right to your opinions as I do.

I have started my interest in BDSM around the age of 21, reading books, learning as much as I could being drawn towards BDSM. My start in BDSM came after I had gone to several munches, parties and clubs for several years but more as an observer instead of an active participant. It is something that is in my personality since I tend to do that with everything in life that matters to me. I read, I research, I observe before finding what I think to be the best way to become active. After 4 years of observation and getting to know people, during which time I did not in any way claim to be either submissive or dominant, I had contact with a female Dominant.

This was about 9 years ago, I am not going to repeat a story which I have already told in another thread, if you are interested go to the ‘Natural Dominant’ discussion. In short she became my mentor and after 2 years of being guided by her we decided to part ways. I have been during my time in BDSM always been an active participant of the clubs, the munches, the gatherings and meetings.

I have given courses on rope bondage; I have mentored 2 other dominants and still am helping other new comers to the scene, and I have been mentor to 2 submissive. I have never been an online Master, but feel that their form of BDSM is as valid as mine. And the smear towards online gained knowledge or not indicates a closed mind towards internet which I have found regularly in ‘real lifers’. I have always been in contact with people who consider themselves the ‘old guard’ or trained by ’old guard’ and often disagree with most of their opinions. By the way my mentor who had been in the scene for about 37 years before she passed away 3 years ago was a fervent believer of traditions, but also a fervent believer of introducing new ways, and openness.

Catalina has also not bothered much with chat rooms (one visit of 5 minutes convinced her they were not what she could relate to) or Internet, however like me she does not believe that the internet, chat rooms or internet boards are a lesser or better form than BDSM we practice. It is just another form of BDSM which many utilise to fulfil their needs, and often serve as a safe stepping stone into reality. She is relatively new to the life-style only being involved seriously for about 2 to 3 years. I am Catalina’s second Master, though her first and only physically present one, and she has met and learned from several dominants before actually choosing to become mine, so I do feel quite proud that out of so many contenders she decided on me. In her search she used her intuition, insight, knowledge of self, the knowledge and guidance received from experienced BDSM’ers, and intelligence to find me, the one she felt fulfilled her image of Master, and had the heart connection we both needed.

In our BDSM society we do not enforce rules nor do we force people to behave in patterns we think they should. I have my own opinion based on my own research, discussion and talks with many. For the rest, I refuse to lower myself to your standards and start a smear campaign, nor do I feel that I need to defend myself against any of the accusations you make, if any that just reminds me of flamers if nothing else.

However I am sure that was just a single moment of weakness in which you forgot your manners. So I am still welcoming to the board and hope to see more intelligent entries, of which I am sure you can make since I did see in earlier postings at the minimum intelligence and compassion for others even if our opinions do not concur.

Francisco.

 

[catalina_francisco]

A nice little picture.

 

[catalina_francisco]

pic 2

 

[catalina_francisco]

pic 3