Brainstorming (Writerly)

[Lee Chambers]

I'm working on some world building for a story I want to write and I'm trying to get some ideas for the society and culture. At the moment I'm looking for broad ideas to form a foundation with.

The world is basically high fantasy with a lot of magic use. The society in question was formed after the culmination of a very devastating war between rival mages. The result was pretty similar to a large scale nuclear war: tens of thousands dead, wide spread destruction and a loss of what basic societal structure there was.

What I'm looking for are some ideas about the society that would form this kind of catastrophic event. The story I'll write is going to take place far into the future after these events but I need a place to start.

I ask this because I know most people here have pretty strong ideas about politics, religion, society, etc. and I'm looking for a vast number of ideas that I can pick and choose from. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Miss_Misaki]

Let's say that these people discover a source of great magical power, and to possess it would make a mage association (or whatever term you use to describe a group of these mages) more powerful than any of the others. War breaks out as each one tries to obtain and keep control over the power source, and in the end, it is destroyed, along with many people both magic and non-magic, as you've already described.

Any time something of great value is discovered, there's almost always a struggle for who gets to claim ownership. It's part of the darker side of human nature, after all.

 

[Lee Chambers]

Let's say that these people discover a source of great magical power, and to possess it would make a mage association (or whatever term you use to describe a group of these mages) more powerful than any of the others. War breaks out as each one tries to obtain and keep control over the power source, and in the end, it is destroyed, along with many people both magic and non-magic, as you've already described.

Any time something of great value is discovered, there's almost always a struggle for who gets to claim ownership. It's part of the darker side of human nature, after all.

The war actually broke out over territory and power. Basically mages made themselves kings and ruled territories of their own. As more mages emerged and more territories were expanded and taken, there was no more room and the conflicts emerged. This eventually escalated into the cataclysm.

 

[Miss_Misaki]

The war actually broke out over territory and power. Basically mages made themselves kings and ruled territories of their own. As more mages emerged and more territories were expanded and taken, there was no more room and the conflicts emerged. This eventually escalated into the cataclysm.

Ah, I see. I guess I don't understand what you're asking for, then, lol. My first inclination was that you wanted ideas about what could lead up to the state of affairs after the war, or even during it. My mistake.

 

[Lee Chambers]

Ah, I see. I guess I don't understand what you're asking for, then, lol. My first inclination was that you wanted ideas about what could lead up to the state of affairs after the war, or even during it. My mistake.

No no, I'm looking for what comes AFTER the war ends. What kind of society to the survivors form? What are their outlooks on magic? Warfare? How they look at each other? How do they begin to rebuild? How do they treat mages (some of them do survive)? How do men treat women? How do women treat men? How does one community treat another? Things of that nature.

If it makes it a little easier, what would YOU do in this situation? What kind of outlook would you build? What kind of laws? That's the perspective I'm looking for.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Every culture is different when it comes to significant changes like military defeat or dominance.

Sometimes an apparent defeat is a significant victory.

 

[rgraham666]

Hmm. I believe the Mad Max idea would follow this sort of cataclysm.

Most of humanity would be reduced to nomadic tribes wandering around the countryside scavenging and looting. The social structure of these would be 'meanest son of a bitch in the valley.'

There would be a few towns or villages where there was some technology still available and centered around places with resources, good farmland or good defensive positions.

The latter would be in danger from the former to say the least, but the edge would usually go to the townies.

After a few generations the nomads would likely develop a hereditary system of chiefdom. The towns would become feudal in nature.

So, basically we're talking Europe after the fall of Rome.

 

[3113]

No no, I'm looking for what comes AFTER the war ends. What kind of society to the survivors form? What are their outlooks on magic? Warfare? How they look at each other? How do they begin to rebuild? How do they treat mages (some of them do survive)? How do men treat women? How do women treat men? How does one community treat another? Things of that nature.

If it makes it a little easier, what would YOU do in this situation? What kind of outlook would you build? What kind of laws? That's the perspective I'm looking for.

Well, the first and most obvious answer is that they'd outlaw magic and kill anyone who displayed magical talents. Think of how anti-atomic bomb Japan was after it got hit. It also matters how the common, non-magical folk were treated. Were they allied with the mages in fighting these wars or were they made into slave and cannon fodder by the mages? Makes a difference. If they were behind their kings, treated well by them and benefiting from said wars, then they'll still hold grudges and continue on the wars on a tribal level. Still revere mages in hopes of a new king. If they were cannon fodder for a kleptocracy--well, unpopular kings get shoes thrown at them, right?

How they treat women depends. How were women treated before? If women are a rare commodity (too many dead), they might be hidden away, coddled, cherished, protected--but not virginal. One woman, five men, five different kids to repopulate the tribe. Men are expendable, women are not. However, if there was some winner in this, then the women of the losing side become prostitutes. We've seen that as well. Those who conquer and come in with food and weapons have the power to subjugate any hungry, losing side.

You need to give us more info on the situation. How many kings? How many wars? Was the implosion (explosion) world wide and what caused it? Did the kings ever ally with each other or are mages solitary types? Did the common, non-magical folk benefit from these wars or was it lose-lose for them? How long did the wars last? How were the kings/magic viewed before the catastrophe? Were there any queens? Etc. Fantasy worlds may be fantasy, but they need their own rules and logic to really work well.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Actually, the scenario you depict is exactly the same as on Terry Pratchett's Discworld where the wizards first devastated the Disc and there were organized into Unseen University to keep them under control. Eventually, they evolved into sort of a thaumaturgical SAC, fed and housed at tax payer expense in the event that they are ever really needed but no one hopes that they ever are.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Sounds like a vaguely similar scenario to Terry Goodkind's Wizard Rule series. Two conflicting political factions, using wizards and magic as weapons, with the subsequent destruction and restructuring of a post apocalyptic world. I always though that this would be an ideal world for some serious magical porn!

 

[voluptuary_manque]

One wonders who might actually hold onto power. Does wielding magic take a lot out of you? Everything has its price, sort of thing? How much can a wizard actually do, once the spell is sent? Is he spent? If enough wizard types kill each other off, they might find themselves held as property, sort of the shotgun over the fireplace kind of thing.

I'm amused to think that women, banded together, might snag onto these guys and use them as a combination Weapon of Mass Destruction in a Mutually Assured Destruction scenario and as breeding stock.

And the formerly all-powerful wizards are now totally subservient to strong willed females, magical or not.

 

[Lee Chambers]

Fantasy worlds may be fantasy, but they need their own rules and logic to really work well.

I know and that's what I'm looking to build. My story that I want to write takes place well in the future of this post-apocalyptic world. But in order to build a strong, believable culture for the story I need the roots of how it was build.

The basic layout before the war was that mages (and there were male and female mages) established themselves as rulers because they not only had the power to bring down fire and lightning but could also provide good things for people. It worked like a feudalism: the mages provided magic and the non-mages served them. Mages would go across the entire spectrum from benevolent to tyrant.

They would build towers or castles for themselves and rule over the lands surrounding their home base. They would take on one or two apprentices who would either take over after they died (or after the apprentice killed them) or the apprentice would move off on their own and establish their own territory.

This worked fine until mages started becoming more prolific and the space started running out. As mages expanded their territory over time and generations they would argue over resources and land, just like any other country. Some mages worked together, others were greedy and wanted all for themselves.

The conflicts started small but escalated over time and eventually erupted into a full blown mage war, complete with armies of their followers killing each other while the mages hurled spells from on high.

I appreciate your feedback on this. Anthropology isn't my strong suit and I'm wanting to build a world that feels real with a legitimate history.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I know and that's what I'm looking to build. My story that I want to write takes place well in the future of this post-apocalyptic world. But in order to build a strong, believable culture for the story I need the roots of how it was build.

The basic layout before the war was that mages (and there were male and female mages) established themselves as rulers because they not only had the power to bring down fire and lightning but could also provide good things for people. It worked like a feudalism: the mages provided magic and the non-mages served them. Mages would go across the entire spectrum from benevolent to tyrant.

They would build towers or castles for themselves and rule over the lands surrounding their home base. They would take on one or two apprentices who would either take over after they died (or after the apprentice killed them) or the apprentice would move off on their own and establish their own territory.

This worked fine until mages started becoming more prolific and the space started running out. As mages expanded their territory over time and generations they would argue over resources and land, just like any other country. Some mages worked together, others were greedy and wanted all for themselves.

The conflicts started small but escalated over time and eventually erupted into a full blown mage war, complete with armies of their followers killing each other while the mages hurled spells from on high.

I appreciate your feedback on this. Anthropology isn't my strong suit and I'm wanting to build a world that feels real with a legitimate history.

Then understand that even in a magical world, economics has to work. Magic can't just be applied wishful thinking. There have to be reasons why it works and why only certain people can use it. That means grain still has to be grown, wool spun, tables built, etc.

 

[Lee Chambers]

Then understand that even in a magical world, economics has to work. Magic can't just be applied wishful thinking. There have to be reasons why it works and why only certain people can use it. That means grain still has to be grown, wool spun, tables built, etc.

Oh I understand that. I'm still trying to figure out the mechanics and such for how magic works but it's going to be more complicated than *snap fingers, conjure whatever you need*. Mages have their limits on what they can and can't do and, of course, like any good apocalypse, a great deal of magical knowledge is lost once the dust settles. Mages knew a lot, as a whole, but their paranoia and tendency to not share anything with potential rivals left a lot of them in the dark on certain things.

 

[3113]

The basic layout before the war was that mages (and there were male and female mages) established themselves as rulers because they not only had the power to bring down fire and lightning but could also provide good things for people. It worked like a feudalism: the mages provided magic and the non-mages served them. Mages would go across the entire spectrum from benevolent to tyrant.

They would build towers or castles for themselves and rule over the lands surrounding their home base. They would take on one or two apprentices who would either take over after they died (or after the apprentice killed them) or the apprentice would move off on their own and establish their own territory.

This worked fine until mages started becoming more prolific and the space started running out. As mages expanded their territory over time and generations they would argue over resources and land, just like any other country. Some mages worked together, others were greedy and wanted all for themselves.

The conflicts started small but escalated over time and eventually erupted into a full blown mage war, complete with armies of their followers killing each other while the mages hurled spells from on high.

Okay. Good start. So let's make a few more assumptions:
1) Magic is something you're born with. If anyone can learn it, then the plebes would be doing it as well. So those Apprentices had magical talent, rather like some people have athletic talent or musical talent or are mathematical prodigies. And they were discovered and fostered. Next question: is everyone born with magic born with the same sort of magic? Are there different types? Are there different levels?

Assuming that magic instantly gives one a leg up into the upper class, are there those with only a little magical ability who get so far in apprentice studies then can go no further and so end up as, say, personal servants to the high-and-mighty, or is magic such a rare talent, and so equal, that any who have it instantly have a chance to be kings/queens?

2) How did mages know if someone had the Magic gene, as it were? Were they born with a special mark? Did they hit puberty and start sending out electrical bolts at people? How did mages find them...and why take them on as apprentices rather than killing off the competition?

3) Okay, so they take on apprentices. Does this mean that mages can't have kids? Does the magic gene also make one sterile? Or do mages have kids? If so, are they also magical? And if not, what happens to them (assuming that magic is a first class ticket to the upper class, and non magic puts you with the plebes)?

4) How long do mages live? I mean, why not just have an apprentice and pass on your territories t him/her when you die? Why send them off to find their own territory?

5) Okay. You're a mage. What do YOU give your territory that they should keep you in a nice castle, send you their best wool and produce and other goods? Is this just a Mafia sort of thing where you protect them from other Mages? Or is it more of a religious thing? Are mages viewed as supernatural beings, holy and above mortals and to be treated like gods?

6) Speaking of which...how does religion work on this world? Do the Mages and belief in the divine intertwine, or are they kept separate? If magic is so natural to the world, they might be separate--magic as a natural phenomena, known about for so long that it's taken for granted. But if magic has been made secret and special, not flaunted but used sparingly, then it becomes the stuff of legend and myth...hence, more godlike.

Those should be a good start on solidifying this world's history and what it might be like now. Because how tradition worked before influences how it works after any disaster. Just because the Japanese lost the war doesn't mean they gave up their reverence for their Emperor.

 

[Lee Chambers]

Thanks everyone. Between this and a conversation I had with some friends this evening, I've got a lot to work with. If you'd like I'd be happy to share what I come up with. Right now I'm going to sift through and probably come up with more ideas and questions on my own.