Bottoming

[BiBunny]

In the interest of not hijacking the "Is Submission A Gift?" thread anymore, I'm snipping a quote of BiaTcHiNFiRe's and starting my own thread about it.

I think its a gift and one should think very well before offering it to someone. You can let someone play with you, like nh23 did when Sir_Winston gave her some cupping. Thats what I see as attitude yes. Attitude to let someone use her. But honestly I dont see submission as being willing to let someone give you what you enjoy. I see submission as something so much deeper than just an "attitude".

To explain, for anyone who hasn't read the entire "Gift" thread, BF said this to me, as a way to point out how she thinks my outlook on BDSM is cold. I believe there's a big difference between bottoming and submitting and that the two are not mutually exclusive of one another.

I'm not too sure exactly where I want to go with this. Thoughts anyone?

 

[Netzach]

I prefer bottoming when I am madly in love, personally. It does have a certain something extra, but so do most things then. I've also done it for what the hell why not shits and giggles with myself and learned really fascinating things about myself that I would not know had I not - never a superficial or dumb endeavor, I don't think,

I've known some couples who were strictly T/b and whose relationships were not tragically lacking in commitment or depth, they're just people who aren't D or s particularly. I guess it's like sex, sometimes it's just fun for people and sometimes it's a Really Big Deal if you do it with someone else, but to make it a Really Big Deal doesn't necessitate submission and for some people submission isn't a Really Big Deal.

 

[intothewoods]

My understanding was that bottoming was more or less physical, whereas submission is mental. But is that true?

For a while I thought, well, maybe I'm a bottom. But I think it's just hard to do D/s in a casual play sort of setting and so I necessarily have to be in some sort of a relationship. But then again, when I play, it's not like I'm tied up and I say - hit me there, harder, softer, not so hard. I have to relinquish some control, but not all. So is bottoming like submission lite?

 

[nh23]

We have very similar ideas on this Bunny. To submit and to bottom are two totally different things to me. To submit I am giving up control of my body, mind, my heart at times.. To bottom I am giving up control of my body only. There is no permanent exchange of power when I bottom. To submit to someone I have to have some type of connection. I'm not saying head over heels in love with someone, because that hasn't always been the case. Although in my best D/s relationship it was, but some kind of connection is key for me. To bottom, mostly all I need is to trust that the other person has enough experience not to hurt me.

In the example BF used.. I bottomed for Sir W. I trust that he's not going to physically hurt me in a bad way. He's very experienced and knows his stuff. I in no way submitted to him. Was he giving me something I enjoy...yes. Was it something he enjoys doing..yes. But, that has nothing to do with submission because it wasn't the case. Seeing submission as being willing to let someone give you something you enjoy has no place here. It is not the case. I was bottoming. I also bottomed to Bunny..same case there. I didn't submit to her. I did needleplay for her..she didn't submit to me. It was a mutually satisfying event. Nothing to do with D/s. It was purely S&M.

D/s can be combined with S&M..and for me in a D/s relationship I need that. But, they don't always go together. They can and do in many cases stand alone. I have no problem keeping the two apart. But, then again I'm poly so that may have something to do with my mindset. For example if your PYL has you bottom to learn a new technique, you are in no way submitting to the person who is topping you. Or, if your PYL doesn't mind if you choose to bottom to someone else, it in no way changes the fact that you submit to your PYL and him/her alone. It's a totally different ballgame.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I've bottomed and I've submitted, but I'm missing Netzach's idea bottoming has something extra....but then I get tired of the continual competitiveness about just about every BDSM and its derivative topic that seems to be mandatory for some and aims at naming one option as the ultimate and the other as inadequate. Why can't people just accept things are different, no better, no worse, just different? WHat next? Is submitting better than dominating? Bottoming for me was an opportunity to experience pain play I thought I would love, but hadn't any experience in and at that point was not in submission to anyone, so seemed the best way to go. Submission was my goal, but it was also something I was not prepared to give every person who crossed my path and offered it as a possibility. So IME, bottoming worked wonderfully for what it was in a time when nothing else was possible and submission not appropriate, and submission has worked wonderfully in a situation where bottoming would have left me feeling something huge was missing and ben totally unacceptable. They both work for people with different needs, different situations, different times of the journey.

In defence of BiaTcHiNFiRe's comment and terminology (though I am sure she doesn't need my help), I would like to remind people that english is not her first language, and being someone who is living in a land which does not have english as it's first language, and trying to learn their language myself...and my experience of being slave and wife to someone whose first language is not english, it is very easy to use a word which makes perfect sense to you but little to a native speaker who is more practiced in using it in its correct or more apporpriate setting. I only wish my Dutch were up to the standard BiaTcHiNFiRe's english is. I actually think I get what she was meaning to express by saying it was an attitude though.

Catalina

 

[ecstaticsub]

On only one occasion has someone other than my Dom caned my ass (or any other type of Topping activity ) but it was under his direct supervision and she remained silent as she delivered the blows. it was my Dom's voice that I heard. So in my head she wasn't anything more that an extension of the cane . He was under total control.

So I really don't know the level of emotions one would feel when bottoming or whether it is cold or not. I don't think I could do it. For me personally, pain for the sake of feeling the sensation without the feeling of surrender and love that goes with being a collared submissive would be just pain. It would feel like abuse. (For me, I am in no way shape or form implying than a bottom is being abused, but for me personally I couldn't and wouldn't do it.)

Or at least I don't think so, not in the situation or mindset I am now.

On further thought...My Dom has sex with others, he sexually shares me with his friends, we each have sex with our spouses but I am never ever allowed to bottom for someone else. He has also said that he would not take on another submissive. He may Top someone else but only if I am there also. (and I know this would be very difficult for me to watch) My point is that on some level I feel that to bottom is a kind of submission. A submission of my body and my trust. This is more intimate than just physical fucking. I can see where being a bottom is not cold at all.


Hmmm..I'll be back after I think a little more.

 

[nh23]

I've bottomed and I've submitted, but I'm missing Netzach's idea bottoming has something extra....but then I get tired of the continual competitiveness about just about every BDSM and its derivative topic that seems to be mandatory for some and aims at naming one option as the ultimate and the other as inadequate. Why can't people just accept things are different, no better, no worse, just different? WHat next? Is submitting better than dominating? Bottoming for me was an opportunity to experience pain play I thought I would love, but hadn't any experience in and at that point was not in submission to anyone, so seemed the best way to go. Submission was my goal, but it was also something I was not prepared to give every person who crossed my path and offered it as a possibility. So IME, bottoming worked wonderfully for what it was in a time when nothing else was possible and submission not appropriate, and submission has worked wonderfully in a situation where bottoming would have left me feeling something huge was missing and ben totally unacceptable. They both work for people with different needs, different situations, different times of the journey.

In defence of BiaTcHiNFiRe's comment and terminology (though I am sure she doesn't need my help), I would like to remind people that english is not her first language, and being someone who is living in a land which does not have english as it's first language, and trying to learn their language myself...and my experience of being slave and wife to someone whose first language is not english, it is very easy to use a word which makes perfect sense to you but little to a native speaker who is more practiced in using it in its correct or more apporpriate setting. I only wish my Dutch were up to the standard BiaTcHiNFiRe's english is. I actually think I get what she was meaning to express by saying it was an attitude though.

Catalina

The part I put in bold..exactly. IMO words you should put into practice and not just spout off.

 

[catalina_francisco]

The part I put in bold..exactly. IMO words you should put into practice and not just spout off.

Ah, but see, what I see as discussing and presenting another POV, especially when what my (and others) reality reflects is being basically called fantasy and rubbish by those who do not agree or share it, is just that, defending another option and discussing, not promoting it as the only reality (as I recall you saying in that to be romantic about D/s was basically fantasy and twaddle). There are always at least 2 sides, but some feel compelled to jump up and down whenever anyone brings up romantic thoughts or hopes, or live it as a reality feeling it is far better to downplay romance to the point of minimising it as a reality. Some also jump up and down when someone says their reality or goal diuffers from their own as you did...if I had said, "oh yes, romance is not really all it's cracked up to be or something to feel strongly about in D/s', you would have been happier and not kept coming back and putting it down as fantasy. If that is their/your reality, fine, but it is not mine and I have a right to say so. My reality is that my life is often very hard, we are both imperfect, but we have a hell of a lot of love, passion and romance happening everyday in our lives, D/s and the more mundane aspects...without it it would not seem to be worth the bother as the bond would not exist and it would not fit who we are as people. Different, not better or worse as you felt was the inevitable choice.

Catalina

 

[nh23]

Ah, but see, what I see as discussing and presenting another POV, especially when what my (and others) reality reflects is being basically called fantasy and rubbish by those who do not agree or share it, is just that, defending another option and discussing, not promoting it as the only reality (as I recall you saying in that to be romantic about D/s was basically fantasy and twaddle). There are always at least 2 sides, but some feel compelled to jump up and down whenever anyone brings up romantic thoughts or hopes, or live it as a reality feeling it is far better to downplay romance to the point of minimising it as a reality. Some also jump up and down when someone says their reality or goal diuffers from their own as you did...if I had said, "oh yes, romance is not really all it's cracked up to be or something to feel strongly about in D/s', you would have been happier and not kept coming back and putting it down as fantasy. If that is their/your reality, fine, but it is not mine and I have a right to say so. My reality is that my life is often very hard, we are both imperfect, but we have a hell of a lot of love, passion and romance happening everyday in our lives, D/s and the more mundane aspects...without it it would not seem to be worth the bother as the bond would not exist and it would not fit who we are as people. Different, not better or worse as you felt was the inevitable choice.

Catalina

See you're getting it all wrong. Go re read my posts. I said several times, how much I respected the opinions of others. I never said romance isn't real. I said I base it on reality. Yes there is romance..all the time...nope. And if there is for someone I'd like to meet them. I also never implied or stated that the way I felt was better. Which is what I feel you do in a lot of your posts on a lot of different subjects. I believe subbier than thou is the term I'm thinking of. It gets old..fast. A difference in opinion is one thing, and actually one thing I love about these boards. I learn a lot that way. Posts that continually reek of how much better you are or listing your attributes at every opportunity to me is something totally different.

 

[BiBunny]

Le sigh. Once again, the point of one of my posts has been totally missed. I don't care about you people's subbier-than-thou pissing contests. I was just asking a damn question. Are the two mutually exclusive of one another? If yes, why, and if no, why not? We don't have to have the equivalent of a "whose got the biggest dick" contest every damn time a question is asked.

Y'all have at it with this damned thread. I give the fuck up on having serious discussions anymore.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Le sigh. Once again, the point of one of my posts has been totally missed. I don't care about you people's subbier-than-thou pissing contests. I was just asking a damn question. Are the two mutually exclusive of one another? If yes, why, and if no, why not? We don't have to have the equivalent of a "whose got the biggest dick" contest every damn time a question is asked.

Y'all have at it with this damned thread. I give the fuck up on having serious discussions anymore.

LOL, I was not referring to you...it is not your style, questioning is and questioning, wondering, pondering are good IMHO.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

See you're getting it all wrong. Go re read my posts. I said several times, how much I respected the opinions of others. I never said romance isn't real. I said I base it on reality. Yes there is romance..all the time...nope. And if there is for someone I'd like to meet them. I also never implied or stated that the way I felt was better. Which is what I feel you do in a lot of your posts on a lot of different subjects. I believe subbier than thou is the term I'm thinking of. It gets old..fast. A difference in opinion is one thing, and actually one thing I love about these boards. I learn a lot that way. Posts that continually reek of how much better you are or listing your attributes at every opportunity to me is something totally different.

Which expresses what I was saying...I am not subbier than thou because my reality does not reflect yours and what you see as the only possibility, and I dare to say so. IYE romance is not always present so you don't believe it is reality for anyone...IME no matter what is happening, even when we are working through a difficult moment, glaring at each other, romance is always there, and we are both agreed always that no matter the moment or the day or the mood, there is nowhere else or anyone else we would ever rather be with than with each other. It is sickeningly sweet to some, but damn it is a nice feeling to find another who shares that reality after all these decades of feeling like you that it is impossible to have as a reality...it is a security and reality I never thought possible.

Catalina

 

[nh23]

Which expresses what I was saying...I am not subbier than thou because my reality does not reflect yours and what you see as the only possibility, and I dare to say so. IYE romance is not always present so you don't believe it is reality for anyone...IME no matter what is happening, even when we are working through a difficult moment, glaring at each other, romance is always there, and we are both agreed always that no matter the moment or the day or the mood, there is nowhere else or anyone else we would ever rather be with than with each other. It is sickeningly sweet to some, but damn it is a nice feeling to find another who shares that reality after all these decades of feeling like you that it is impossible to have as a reality...it is a security and reality I never thought possible.

Catalina

This is going in circles. I bow out. I'm happy you have what you want. I do too. I'll leave it at that.

Bunny I'm sorry for my part in hijacking your thread. You know I love ya!

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

In the interest of not hijacking the "Is Submission A Gift?" thread anymore, I'm snipping a quote of BiaTcHiNFiRe's and starting my own thread about it.



To explain, for anyone who hasn't read the entire "Gift" thread, BF said this to me, as a way to point out how she thinks my outlook on BDSM is cold. I believe there's a big difference between bottoming and submitting and that the two are not mutually exclusive of one another.

I'm not too sure exactly where I want to go with this. Thoughts anyone?

Now you got me!

I am sorry, but when I said the thing about attitude I didn't know anything about bottoming at all. Now when I read about it here I must say I still see it as an attiutde as I said and a physical thing as you said.

I loved those pic's yes (Sir Winston doing cupping to nh23) and I think I even said I would let Sir_Winston do that to me as well if I was there, but guess I wouldn't. I am not into Poly relationships and when I think about it I am not into bottoming either. I would feel like I am being shared and thats something I truly hate, if you lived with my ex for few years you would understand why lol.

I am not into Poly, never was and never will be, but I do not judge those who are. If they have fun? why not. It's not my cup of tea tho. I dunno share people I love and I am not shy for it in any way. I want someone just for myself and I have no prob to be just with one person. If we mesh well it's all I need, he's all I need I mean.

I really don't have a bit of a Poly mindset in me so I find it really hard to understand what Bunny and nh23 talking about when they talking about enjoying it so much. I couldn't do that yes. If I keep talking about Poly relationships it I will surely piss off few peeps who does enjoy it, I just do not, I can't help it.

As for me saying you are cold...
I am sorry, but some things you said sounded a bit cold to me yes. The way you see your PYL, like you think he couldn't accept you the way you are. You sounded just bitter to me yes and cold. Cold cuz from what you said you are so "real" and "so living in reality" that you keep distance from your PYL, at least you sounded like that to me, same with nh23. Thats why I said cold.. but it's just my own little nerdy opinion. I dunno you at all so I might be wrong, I just said what I thought about your posts on the other thread. I didn't mean to piss you off or anything like that.

You and nh23 see things way different than me and it's okay. Maybe it's really cuz of the Poly mindselt you both have and I am missing lol, I dunno.

 

[BiBunny]

I don't HAVE a PYL, which is why I don't understand where you're going with this. There's no one for me to keep my distance from.

I wasn't trying to be combative toward you, and you didn't piss me off. I'm just trying to understand where you (and other people who feel the way you do) are coming from. To me, there's a huge divide between bottoming and submission, but one doesn't lessen the value of the other, IMO.

 

[serijules]

Before I met Dawnie, I never submitted to anyone. All the play and even the relationships I was in, I was a bottom. I didn't serve anyone, and the play was on the level that *I* wanted. I cared about what *I* got out of it, and I played with people that enjoyed helping me get to those places and have those experiences. I call this topping and bottoming.

Submission for me can involve 100% of the same acts as bottoming, but the intentions are different, IMO. Submission involves the "bottom" wanting and actively trying to please their partner. The focus of the interactions is not strictly pleasing themselves, but pleasing another. Once that focus changes from "I enjoy being caned, this makes me feel good" to "I enjoy being taking his cane and pleasing him with my actions"....then there is an instance of submission.

Like I said, prior to Dawnie, I didn't submit. Sure, I wanted my partners to enjoy being with me and playing with me, but I left it up to them to entertain themselves as far as if they were being pleased or not. I never actively sought out to please another person as the REASON for taking the pain. There is nothing wrong with bottoming and being a bottom doesn't limit a person, IMO, from any BDSM activity. If they want to crawl across the floor and lick someones feet be pissed on, that can be bottoming or it can be submitting, depending on the mindset of the people involved and what they expect out of one another.

I know people who do far more edgy activities and whatnot than most and are still "top and bottom", because that need to please one another beyound mutual enjoyment of the play and friendship is just not important or necessary. One man I used to be caned by...our scenes were incredibly intense. I was often naked. I called him Sir. He hurt me a lot and exposed me to some things I was very new to.

I did it because I loved the subspace he got me to. He did it because he really enjoyed the levels I could take, and he was happy to have someone to take his sadism out on. Pleasing each other was a nice bonus, but certainly not the reason or being of the scene.

Oddly enough, I could take a HELL of a lot more pain when I bottomed than I can now submitting.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Oddly enough, I could take a HELL of a lot more pain when I bottomed than I can now submitting.

Like I said I have no experience at bottoming without submission, but I find this comment very surprising and interesting. Do you have any thoughts on why it's true? (just curious)

 

[nh23]

Now you got me!

I am sorry, but when I said the thing about attitude I didn't know anything about bottoming at all. Now when I read about it here I must say I still see it as an attiutde as I said and a physical thing as you said.

I loved those pic's yes and I think I even said I would let Sir_Winston do that to me as well if I was there, but guess I wouldn't. I am not into Poly relationships and when I think about it I am not into bottoming either. I would feel like I am being shared and thats something I truly hate, if you lived with my ex for few years you would understand why lol.

I am not into Poly, never was and never will be, but I do not judge those who are. If they have fun? why not. It's not my cup of tea tho. I dunno share people I love and I am shy for it in any way. I want someone just for myself and I have no prob to be just with one person. If we mesh well it's all I need, he's all I need I mean.

I really don't have a bit of a Poly mindset in me so I find it really hard to understand what Bunny and nh23 talking about when they talking about enjoying it so much. I couldn't do that yes. If I keep talking about Poly relationships it I will surely piss off few peeps who does enjoy it, I just do not, I can't help it.

As for me saying you are cold...
I am sorry, but some things you said sounded a bit cold to me yes. The way you see your PYL, like you think he couldn't accept you the way you are. You sounded just bitter to me yes and cold. Cold cuz from what you said you are so "real" and "so living in reality" that you keep distance from your PYL, at least you sounded like that to me, same with nh23. Thats why I said cold.. but it's just my own little nerdy opinion. I dunno you at all so I might be wrong, I just said what I thought about your posts on the other thread. I didn't mean to piss you off or anything like that.

You and nh23 see things way different than me and it's okay. Maybe it's really cuz of the Poly mindselt you both have and I am missing lol, I dunno.

Ok.. I'm going to go off the beaten path her for a few to see if it helps you understand my side any better. I do have a PYL. We were together for a year and a half..due to circumstances we were apart, we are now back together. (Go way back to my posts from when I joined Lit until about Sept or so..you'll see who I'm talking about..lol.) Now as far as me being cold.. I'm really not. I love this man dearly. I would do anything for him. And if there is a such things as soulmates..he's mine. I promise that. It was devastating when I lost him, and such a joy when he came back. I do feel love, I'm not a cold bitter person. I've made bad choices, I've paid for them, but it doesn't jade my opinion on the subject IMHO. All I was trying to do is point out that sometimes the romance takes a back seat to life. There are days when I want nothing more than to be in the arms of a SO, but my kids are screaming, my son put the cat in the microwave, the dishes are dirty etc. I was never saying that love doesn't exist, or romance is not a beautiful thing. I just see it all as a part of life. The good and the bad.

There are times when we've spent forever with who we thought was Mr Right and he turned out not to be..it happens..it's life.

As far as a poly mindset..well we are going to see things differently. For example. I have a husband and I have a Dominant. Up until awhile ago, you had a SO and a Dominant. Same thing in my eyes. Now do we see it the same way..probably not.
As far as bottoming goes it's a matter of what you're comfortable with. Cat for example is not poly, yet she has bottomed. It's all a matter of personal opinion and how you see things. Bottoming does NOT have to include any kind of sexual activity.

 

[serijules]

Like I said I have no experience at bottoming without submission, but I find this comment very surprising and interesting. Do you have any thoughts on why it's true? (just curious)

Probably because submitting and pleasing someone else causes me to split my focus. If I "fail" at taking the cane as hard as I hoped when bottoming, the only person I am disappointing is *myself*. When submitting, if I have to safeword or can't take as much as Ma'am wants to give me, the feelings and emotions involved are so much more intense.

Bottoming is safe, for me. I call the shots, I take it where I want it, I place the limits...and what I ask to happen is likely going to happen as long as my partner is in agreement. I can really sink into that safety and that selfishness and find subspace and embrace it. It's ok that I'm not focused on them, because I'm bottoming.

When submitting, I can't have that subspace. I can't let myself go and sink into it and know it will only go where I want it to go. I have no control. My focus is completely opposite, I'm focused on pleasing the other person. Since I can't go off into that blissful subspace and I don't know when the scene will stop or how far it will go, I just can't take the pain as well. I usually DO take it anyhow, but I don't take it as well often. Depends on the situation.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Probably because submitting and pleasing someone else causes me to split my focus. If I "fail" at taking the cane as hard as I hoped when bottoming, the only person I am disappointing is *myself*. When submitting, if I have to safeword or can't take as much as Ma'am wants to give me, the feelings and emotions involved are so much more intense.

Bottoming is safe, for me. I call the shots, I take it where I want it, I place the limits...and what I ask to happen is likely going to happen as long as my partner is in agreement. I can really sink into that safety and that selfishness and find subspace and embrace it. It's ok that I'm not focused on them, because I'm bottoming.

When submitting, I can't have that subspace. I can't let myself go and sink into it and know it will only go where I want it to go. I have no control. My focus is completely opposite, I'm focused on pleasing the other person. Since I can't go off into that blissful subspace and I don't know when the scene will stop or how far it will go, I just can't take the pain as well. I usually DO take it anyhow, but I don't take it as well often. Depends on the situation.

Thank you, I appreciate your response. In my head I was thinking I would be able to take more while submitting because of the emotional connection and desire to please. OTOH while bottoming I would only take as much as I wanted, and since I'm not really into serious pain that wouldn't be much.

Thanks again for your viewpoint.

 

[GentleSub_Ivy]

My only experience so far is bottoming. I feel pretty much in charge when that happens. I do agree with the OP that bottoming and submission are completely different even with my lack of experience with submission. Like others have said, submission seems to be more about wanting to please. I don't see why one would be better than the other.

As the saying goes...whatever floats your boat. It's all good.

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

I don't HAVE a PYL, which is why I don't understand where you're going with this. There's no one for me to keep my distance from.

I know you don't have a PYL atm, I said it cuz of the way you talk about your self. I said it cuz you said you're shitty gift and thats just not true. With this things in your head it's just hard to open up to someone who would take good care of you. I know this cuz I am like this myself at times. But don't do that Bunny, never doubt your self. If there was people who treated you shit or just not like you expected or needed to well its their lose! I am sure theres someone who will treasure and cherish you for all what you are as a woman and as a swich or submissive or whatever, you know what I mean right?

I always saw myself as a shitty woman, shitty partner and a shitty sub as well and I was closed for damn everyone who wanted get closer to me. I just didn't want to let them get to know me better cuz I thought I will be marked as a shitty person once again, but you know what? I am glad I did. I am glad I opened to my Sir who now loves me with all the good and bad about me, with all my faults and mistakes. I am glad I let him come in and I am thankful he take the time to get to know the "real" me. And I am thankful he think I am worth of his time.

I told you in the "Dear X" thread I do understand the way some people make you feel when you said "I am 'this' close to get pissed off" and I do understand you in this very well cuz lately I feel like every nerd think he can mess with me and make me things his way or her way and I am so damn tired of it and I am more than ready to bite right back once I will see someone messing with me again.

I am tired of being abused over and over again and I think you feel it the same way. I can still be nice, but I refuse to be nice to damn everybody. You want me to be nice to you? you better be nice and respectful to me then or you'll have to deal with the pissed off bitch you woke up in me.

I could tell you lots of things, but I know you wouldn't accept it anyways. You would tell me you don't need my sorrow same my theories of why you sound so bitter. You have been hurt, your words says so. Thats why all the bitterness in some of your posts you made in the "gift" thread. Thats why all the "so real" view of things. Once you will fall in love again and let it consume you and find out it wont hurt you-you will heal and you will see things brighter again.

When I get to know my Sir we spent alot of time talking and I must say his words was like an healing oil to me, they still are. When he's around I enjoy him so much. Talk to him is like some kind of a magic bath and I know every time I feel blue or lonely I just need a bit of him. Bit of his power and the warm talks we have. He makes me feel so loved as any other man ever had and I know I will never get enough of it. Being loved like this is a devine bliss just like Catalina said and I wish you to find someone who would make you feel this loved and accepted. It's a gift, it really is.

I wasn't trying to be combative toward you, and you didn't piss me off. I'm just trying to understand where you (and other people who feel the way you do) are coming from. To me, there's a huge divide between bottoming and submission, but one doesn't lessen the value of the other, IMO.

Where I am coming from? *smiles*

I am dreamer, I always was and guess I always will be. I have million reasons to see things the same "real" way as you and nh23 does, but I like to dream and I like to see only the good in people. How could I fall in love if I ever thought my Sir will be different IRL than he's online?? He gave me no reason to think so and I like to believe he's just the way I know him from our chats. Good caring Sir, great dad and wonderful dominant partner and hell yeah I want it, I want him with all of my being.

As for bottoming and submission you are right. There is a big difference between this two things, but as I said before I didn't know what bottoming was just a while ago so. I am a bit smarter now and I know I couldn't do this same as ecstaticsub. I agree with what she said about it "For me personally, pain for the sake of feeling the sensation without the feeling of surrender and love that goes with being a collared submissive would be just pain. It would feel like abuse. (For me, I am in no way shape or form implying than a bottom is being abused, but for me personally I couldn't and wouldn't do it.)" I would feel the same way about it.

 

[BiBunny]

I know you don't have a PYL atm, I said it cuz of the way you talk about your self. I said it cuz you said you're shitty gift and thats just not true. With this things in your head it's just hard to open up to someone who would take good care of you. I know this cuz I am like this myself at times. But don't do that Bunny, never doubt your self. If there was people who treated you shit or just not like you expected or needed to well its their lose! I am sure theres someone who will treasure and cherish you for all what you are as a woman and as a swich or submissive or whatever, you know what I mean right?

I always saw myself as a shitty woman, shitty partner and a shitty sub as well and I was closed for damn everyone who wanted get closer to me. I just didn't want to let them get to know me better cuz I thought I will be marked as a shitty person once again, but you know what? I am glad I did. I am glad I opened to my Sir who now loves me with all the good and bad about me, with all my faults and mistakes. I am glad I let him come in and I am thankful he take the time to get to know the "real" me. And I am thankful he think I am worth of his time.

I told you in the "Dear X" thread I do understand the way some people make you feel when you said "I am 'this' close to get pissed off" and I do understand you in this very well cuz lately I feel like every nerd think he can mess with me and make me things his way or her way and I am so damn tired of it and I am more than ready to bite right back once I will see someone messing with me again.

I am tired of being abused over and over again and I think you feel it the same way. I can still be nice, but I refuse to be nice to damn everybody. You want me to be nice to you? you better be nice and respectful to me then or you'll have to deal with the pissed off bitch you woke up in me.

I could tell you lots of things, but I know you wouldn't accept it anyways. You would tell me you don't need my sorrow same my theories of why you sound so bitter. You have been hurt, your words says so. Thats why all the bitterness in some of your posts you made in the "gift" thread. Thats why all the "so real" view of things. Once you will fall in love again and let it consume you and find out it wont hurt you-you will heal and you will see things brighter again.

When I get to know my Sir we spent alot of time talking and I must say his words was like an healing oil to me, they still are. When he's around I enjoy him so much. Talk to him is like some kind of a magic bath and I know every time I feel blue or lonely I just need a bit of him. Bit of his power and the warm talks we have. He makes me feel so loved as any other man ever had and I know I will never get enough of it. Being loved like this is a devine bliss just like Catalina said and I wish you to find someone who would make you feel this loved and accepted. It's a gift, it really is.


Where I am coming from? *smiles*

I am dreamer, I always was and guess I always will be. I have million reasons to see things the same "real" way as you and nh23 does, but I like to dream and I like to see only the good in people. How could I fall in love if I ever thought my Sir will be different IRL than he's online?? He gave me no reason to think so and I like to believe he's just the way I know him from our chats. Good caring Sir, great dad and wonderful dominant partner and hell yeah I want it, I want him with all of my being.

As for bottoming and submission you are right. There is a big difference between this two things, but as I said before I didn't know what bottoming was just a while ago so. I am a bit smarter now and I know I couldn't do this same as ecstaticsub. I agree with what she said about it "For me personally, pain for the sake of feeling the sensation without the feeling of surrender and love that goes with being a collared submissive would be just pain. It would feel like abuse. (For me, I am in no way shape or form implying than a bottom is being abused, but for me personally I couldn't and wouldn't do it.)" I would feel the same way about it.

I'm sorry. I just don't believe that "finding the right man" is going to make me totally change how I view things. It's ok for you to have a "romantic" view of life, and it's ok for me to have a "realistic" view. I just think it's kind of offensive for you to tell me that all I need is this mythical person to change my whole life and the way I look at things. I am in control of my life and my happiness, not some nameless, faceless uber-Dom. I don't need a man to complete me or to save me from myself. Like I said in the other thread, if I'm enjoying myself as a Toppy-leaning switch who'll bottom occasionally to friends who understand that I don't submit, I don't see what's wrong with that or why you think I need something more.

 

[nh23]

I'm sorry. I just don't believe that "finding the right man" is going to make me totally change how I view things. It's ok for you to have a "romantic" view of life, and it's ok for me to have a "realistic" view. I just think it's kind of offensive for you to tell me that all I need is this mythical person to change my whole life and the way I look at things. I am in control of my life and my happiness, not some nameless, faceless uber-Dom. I don't need a man to complete me or to save me from myself. Like I said in the other thread, if I'm enjoying myself as a Toppy-leaning switch who'll bottom occasionally to friends who understand that I don't submit, I don't see what's wrong with that or why you think I need something more.

And my post disproves that also. I do have whom I consider the right Dom, and I also have who I consider the right husband, So I have two Mr. Right's. I still see things the same way you do. Which puts a huge flaw in the theory.

 

[BiBunny]

And my post disproves that also. I do have whom I consider the right Dom, and I also have who I consider the right husband, So I have two Mr. Right's. I still see things the same way you do. Which puts a huge flaw in the theory.

Oh, no, honey. You're still just not enlightened enough yet to walk down the Noble Path.