Both Sides B.S.

[Lazaran]

MODERN Democrats are NOT the same as MODERN Republicans.

MODERN Democrats were NEVER the same as MODERN Republicans.

That ^ canard from "the left" gave us Trump in 2016 & 2024 (and Reagan & the Bush dynasty / travesty, to some extent).



If DonOld & the MAGAt republicans ignorant, racist, fascist, misogynistic, corrupt and treasonous words &
actions aren’t enough to dissuade "the left" from continuing to promulgate that “Both Sides” B.S., then America is lost forever.



WE. TOLD. THEM. SO.

 

[Wilson23]

I recall a Disney film -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_One_and_Only,_Genuine,_Original_Family_Band -- set in 1888. Republican-Democratic animosity drives the plot -- but we only see the parties as rival teams; how their politics and policies differ is never mentioned. And in historical fact there really was not much difference, in 1888.

Just putting this here to provide a bit of perspective.

 

[DraggonStone]

The US needs a third major political party

 

[YDB95]

And in historical fact there really was not much difference, in 1888.

True. For all the right-wing bleating about how the Democrats were the party of racists back then - and they were - after the Compromise of 1877, the Republicans were only less racist inasmuch as they did nothing either way for race relations or civil rights. From then until Truman integrated the armed services in 1948, neither party had much to recommend it as far as Blacks were concerned.

 

[Sean Renaud]

The only way we'll get a third major party is if we do either fusion voting, run off voting. Those two don't even technically require Congress. We could at least for the president ma make the popular vote win. Which again doesn't TECHNICALLY require Congress to do anything. Its been floating around for a few years that because electors can do what they want we could just get states pledge their votes to the popular winner.

The problem with a third party is do you trust the House to pick the President? Because the President is selects the first person to get 50%+1. Not the most votes. So lets just say every reliably red state goes red. I don't think that's SUPER likely in a three party system. Certainly less likely than all the reliably blue states not going blue. Neither would happen, both would lose a few. Lets keep it simple though. Every Swing State goes Yellow. Now at this point there is no winner and the House goes to work. And strictly speaking they are not obligated to pick any of the three front runners. Which might be wise TBH. A lot of people clearly hate vote. And while the Right is clearly worse about this than the Left, look no farther than the Immigration Bill in 2024. Both parties will hate vote just so the other side looks bad. Sadly that's a quality plan though I think part of that is our media having this strange combination of homogenous and and separated.

Any way lets just say there was some fourth person who for one reason or another nobody hated enough to sabotage that might work but that seems like jumping off a bridge and hoping like hell there is a lemon merange pie down there. There isn't. I've checked lots of bridges.

 

[Lazaran]

The US needs a third major political party

That ^ kind of "thinking" is what keeps getting ignorant, racist, fascist, misogynistic, corrupt & traitorous scumbags like DonOld & the MAGAt republicans elected.



Bottom line:

The Modern Democratic Party was / is perfectly fine (not perfect), and they were / are NOT “the same” as the MAGAt republican party; full stop.



And considering that the MAGAt republicans will ALWAYS fall in line, some compromise from "the left" with the rest of the Democratic Party to maintain a majority coalition is NECESSARY; full stop.



Or "the left" can continue to ensure that the MAGAt republican party controls government in perpetuity.



WE. TOLD. THEM. SO.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I'm going to put an I don't disagree that the system is fucked up and because of how its fucked we need to all fall the fuck in line. However people really need to start making the argument that this system ONLY makes sure we never have more than two choices. If you want more choices a new system is needed.

 

[Wilson23]

The only way we'll get a third major party is if we do either fusion voting, run off voting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_fusion_in_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting
See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation

 

[Wilson23]

To illustrate the value: If we had instant runoff voting in place in 2000, Nader could have run without taking votes away from Gore.

 

[DraggonStone]

That ^ kind of "thinking" is what keeps getting ignorant, racist, fascist, misogynistic, corrupt & traitorous scumbags like DonOld & the MAGAt republicans elected.



Bottom line:

The Modern Democratic Party was / is perfectly fine (not perfect), and they were / are NOT “the same” as the MAGAt republican party; full stop.



And considering that the MAGAt republicans will ALWAYS fall in line, some compromise from "the left" with the rest of the Democratic Party to maintain a majority coalition is NECESSARY; full stop.



Or "the left" can continue to ensure that the MAGAt republican party controls government in perpetuity.



WE. TOLD. THEM. SO.

Words can't possibly express my contempt for politicians however, I understand that our fucked up political system is reality. Growing up in the US, I always felt the majority was moderate. Now both parties are too extreme for me. That being said, Trump and maga are like a combination of cancer, syphilis, and leprosy. I hold my nose and vote D

 

[Lazaran]

I'm going to put an I don't disagree that the system is fucked up and because of how its fucked we need to all fall the fuck in line. However people really need to start making the argument that this system ONLY makes sure we never have more than two choices. If you want more choices a new system is needed.

Strange wording, but I don’t disagree - to a point.

The Democratic Party WAS damn responsive to the needs / concerns of “the many”, and yet the Democratic Party was trashed because they weren’t PERFECT.

A "third party / choice" would face the same dynamic.

Meanwhile, the MAGAt republicans would continue to be held to zero standards by their base, and continue to benefit from the double standard(s) - winning elections because of infighting between the left and the center-left. I believe a third party would only make it worse (unless ranked choice, etc, was fully implemented).



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[Lazaran]

Words can't possibly express my contempt for politicians however, I understand that our fucked up political system is reality. Growing up in the US, I always felt the majority was moderate. Now both parties are too extreme for me. That being said, Trump and maga are like a combination of cancer, syphilis, and leprosy. I hold my nose and vote D

The only way you can conclude that the Democratic Party is “too extreme” is if you believe the LIES coming from various quarters.

Cite an ACTUAL Democratic Party platform position that is “too extreme” - I’ll wait.



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[Sean Renaud]

our mistaken. The Dems don't HAVE an extreme of any importance. The problem is the Right is so insanely right that it makes normal look crazy. Every poll shows most people agree with Dems on most issues. Most want the minimum wage to increase. Most thing we should have higher taxes on the rich. Whether or not they want UHC depends VERY heavily on how you phrase it which is fucking annoying. Not that Obamacare is UHC but we can get into that later. Almost every part of it was popular and the act itself is popular NOW which is why Republicans are through trying to repeal it and are trying to defund it.

I don't know if I came up with this joke on my own or if I heard it or if like many thing many people came to the same logic independently. But the D v R debate on healthcare can be summed up like this.

Democrats: Lets order pizza for dinner.
Americans: Sounds good.
Republicans: You know where Pizza is from? Italy. You know who they allied with in WW2? Nazis. Do you want to be Nazi lovers?
Americans: NO

Democrats: Fine. What if we got a piece of dough. Covered in in tomato sauce. The mozerella cheese and then we can sit down and figure out what combination of meats, vegetable and fruits we put on it.
Americans: Sounds a bit complicated. But I'm down.
Republicans: That's a pizza! From the Nazi lovers!
Americans: We don't want that.
Democrats: FUCK.

Worse parts? PArt two and three.

Democrats: We have enough votes. Let's just get a pepperoni calzone. Its not perfect but whatever.
Republicans: They are forcing it down your throat. Only they have turned it into Taco form. The people stealing your jobs are into this.
Americans: Gag! This is gross.

Part 3

Republicams: Finally we're going to stop buying Calzones!
American PEople: I like my Calzone.
Republicans: But its Nazi Tacos
Democrats: We told you this is good. FUCK. Fold like pap

Strange wording, but I don’t disagree - to a point.

The Democratic Party WAS damn responsive to the needs / concerns of “the many”, and yet the Democratic Party was trashed because they weren’t PERFECT.

A "third party / choice" would face the same dynamic.

Meanwhile, the MAGAt republicans would continue to be held to zero standards by their base, and continue to benefit from the double standard(s) - winning elections because of infighting between the left and the center-left. I believe a third party would only make it worse (unless ranked choice, etc, was fully implemented).



We. Told. Them. So.

A third or more parties would actually function similar to fusion voting. IT would probably do infinitely more damage to the Right or should than the Left. There is no reason why the Christians, before they lost their minds entirely, should be allied with the capitalists and the obvious war party not the peaceniks and socialists. But if you could be a lets just say Jedi. And your party has enough power to accomplish things but the party collectively moves as a whole or close enough that's game changing.

Also Dems do get a lot of crap for not being perfect. I wish I could get a time machine and speak to the Founders cus I wonder if any of them predicted our current situation. You need 60% to get anything done. IF you don't get anything done the opposing party will ask the people "What have they done for you? HAve they kept their promises? And somehow people wouldn't realize that its not for a lack of trying. American Politics is the only game I've ever heard of where you can lose the game and lose it hard 60/40 is not a close match. But if you refuse to play the game for the next two years you can make sure EVERYBODY loses. And just the nature of Americans to throw the bums out everybody losing benefits the Right.

 

[DraggonStone]

The only way you can conclude that the Democratic Party is “too extreme” is if you believe the LIES coming from various quarters.

Cite an ACTUAL Democratic Party platform position that is “too extreme” - I’ll wait.



We. Told. Them. So.

No thanks